Jump to content
  • Sign Up

What is up with the matchmaker?


Recommended Posts

I will say, you can always balance things yourself if you allow five man queues.

But we don’t live in that world and the matchmaker simply doesn’t have enough information to be able to distinguish between a support guard and a burst DPS guard. Or a boonbeast vs bunker Druid vs sic em Ranger.

Anet can’t generate the data but players can (even if some will lie, some will be wrong, and some won’t know how to play their build).

I’d make everyone select the type every time they queue to prevent “oops I forgot I swapped to X.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if they made an option to restrict yourself to games within smaller thresholds?

Like an option that tells you it will be a longer wait, but possibly a higher quality match.

I would like to think that anyone choosing longer waits actually intends on trying hard.

Since it would be optional, the shard farmers could q at will.

No more dynamic duo blowing you up.

The thing is, I don't want to play with high level players.

Not 400-600 points away from me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my hubris, I thought that matchmaker used rank, so I intentionally didn't try hard during placement. Just had a 5-loss streak, some where I was top stats, others where I was distracting 2 of the other team mates on a ledge for a SUPER long time and my team couldn't even regain map control outnumbering everyone. Geez.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:https://imgur.com/hoeDw5N

how does the top 2 duo get paired against a team of silver/golds with no duos? 1 of the people on our team hasn't even pvped before?

I'd say maybe the other players on their team were really low rank, but that's definitely not the case. they were better than 3/5 of our team.

Hence i all for removing duo queue from ranked, it's breaking the matching algorithm; they could have been playing against each with if they can only solo queue, making the match more balanced

if they want to play together, go AT or unranked

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:Yikes homie. If you think I am voluntarily putting myself in games like this you are mistaken. The game OP is referring to I got a +2, and had we lost a -40. Those are also the games we are most susceptible to lose because to average out team rating we have to get low golds/silvers vs golds/plats because of our combined rating.

If you want to make yourself seem more innocent, and lose less + win more at the same time; then maybe you should queue with someone actually close to your rating and not a friend who tanked their own rating on alt specifically to put you in those games you claim you don't want to be in.

Not that this is always the case, but a lot of the time that happens. If you're seeing +2/-40 then it's very likely you're doing it.

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:Also there is no such thing as 'abusing duo q" how bitter do you have to be to think someone using a feature is abusing it just because they are winning.

Therein lies one of many ways to abuse DuoQ, which is definitely doable.

In Season 13, when DuoQ came out; the entire leaderboard and everyone's rank was inflated and essentially ruined because a DuoQ partner could leave a game and the rest of their team wouldn't lose anything for the impending loss on top of there being no cap on how far apart two ranks can queue together. The latter problem still persists, and the average winrate and ranking of the people who buy the top titles every season has skyrocketed to upwards of 90% because merged queues make it even easier to wintrade than it would be without. Not abusable btw.

Also probably what went wrong with the matchmaker in that game, to answer OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vieux P.1238 said:Hahaha ha ah i laugh at you all. You thought making this game casual playing & pve friendly would keep players playing... You werrr wrong! Now i laugh at you all.. mouhahaha caugh.. This game needs to get dirty...

Except it's getting completely ruined by the people who don't play it casually (and a failed matchmaking system). The game mode would be DEAD in an instant if they got rid of any rewards for losers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:Yikes homie. If you think I am voluntarily putting myself in games like this you are mistaken. The game OP is referring to I got a +2, and had we lost a -40. Those are also the games we are most susceptible to lose because to average out team rating we have to get low golds/silvers vs golds/plats because of our combined rating.

If you want to make yourself seem more innocent, and lose less + win more at the same time; then maybe you should queue with someone actually close to your rating and not a friend who tanked their own rating on alt specifically to put you in those games you claim you don't want to be in.

Not that this is always the case, but a lot of the time that happens. If you're seeing +2/-40 then it's very likely you're doing it.

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:Also there is no such thing as 'abusing duo q" how bitter do you have to be to think someone using a feature is abusing it just because they are winning.

Therein lies one of many ways to abuse DuoQ, which is definitely doable.

In Season 13, when DuoQ came out; the entire leaderboard and everyone's rank was inflated and essentially ruined because a DuoQ partner could leave a game and the rest of their team
wouldn't lose anything
for the impending loss on top of there being
no cap on how far apart two ranks can queue together
. The latter problem still persists, and the average winrate and ranking of the people who buy the top titles every season has skyrocketed to upwards of 90% because merged queues make it even easier to wintrade than it would be without. Not abusable btw.

Also probably what went wrong with the matchmaker in that game, to answer OP.

Dawg idfk who u are but heres some advice, actually know what you're talking about before you spout nonsense. EVERY.SINGLE.GAME i have played was duo'd with someone who is higher rated than me so save me that bs. You are literally the epitome of every forum pleb with 0 information acting like they know anything, you dont.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/494041688327847936/593334871129194505/unknown.png

We have been qing duo as r1 and r2 the entire season. He has more games played than me qing with other people so where is this qing with low alts to get easier games bs? I legit just explained to you why high rated players in low rated games = NOT WORTH but you're too dense to even understand basic concepts. Anyone that has run into us this ranked season knows we were both on our mains. This is the last time im posting here to clarify misinformation because clearly no matter how much I explain it some people just lack common sense but keep yelling wintrade and cry because some people are just better than you.

Edit: because both of us are qing on our mains and not using low alts to tank rating here is how our qs go, and it is exactly why we get put into games we shouldnt be in.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/478002000076996622/593175266663202847/Screenshot_271_LI.jpg

and before you cry about offhour qing, look at the time.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I blame anet. This shit isn't fun for any1, both low and high rated players alike. I think for the sake of your mental health just forget about the game and move on to the next. You barely lose any rating for these types of games anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Dawg idfk who u are but heres some advice, actually know what you're talking about before you spout nonsense. EVERY.SINGLE.GAME i have played was duo'd with someone who is higher rated than me so save me that bs. You are literally the epitome of every forum pleb with 0 information acting like they know anything, you dont.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/494041688327847936/593334871129194505/unknown.png

We have been qing duo as r1 and r2 the entire season. He has more games played than me qing with other people so where is this qing with low alts to get easier games bs? I legit just explained to you why high rated players in low rated games = NOT WORTH but you're too dense to even understand basic concepts. Anyone that has run into us this ranked season knows we were both on our mains. This is the last time im posting here to clarify misinformation because clearly no matter how much I explain it some people just lack common sense but keep yelling wintrade and cry because some people are just better than you.

Edit: because both of us are qing on our mains and not using low alts to tank rating here is how our qs go, and it is exactly why we get put into games we shouldnt be in.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/478002000076996622/593175266663202847/Screenshot_271_LI.jpg

and before you cry about offhour qing, look at the time.

All i'm saying is it's a thing people do. Not directly accusing you or anything, but you did try and say that DuoQ isn't exploitable at all, when the reality is; it is being and has been exploited season after season since it was reimplemented.

Now I may be a misinformed nobody(As that seems to be the go-to insult for top rated players to dealing with any sort of criticism) but I understand at least that the top spots are really volatile, and the formula for determining rank gain screws you, but not to the extent of +2/-40. That isn't even close to normal for that rating. As a content creator that's been in that top spot consistently, I don't see how you can expect people to believe it is.

Like I say, not accusing anyone of anything. I recognized your mains from the OPs screenshot even. You had just said that DuoQ isn't exploitable even thought it is, and you also gave what is either a pretty gross exaggeration of rank gain compared to rank lost, or; like I say, it could be DuoQing with a smurf because that would do it.

And it is absolutely practical to do that. If you are satisfied with whatever spot you have on the LB, that would be an easy way to keep your spot and keep up with decay and/or the minimum games LB requirement.

And that is an argument against DuoQ, not you specifically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Dawg idfk who u are but heres some advice, actually know what you're talking about before you spout nonsense. EVERY.SINGLE.GAME i have played was duo'd with someone who is higher rated than me so save me that bs. You are literally the epitome of every forum pleb with 0 information acting like they know anything, you dont.

We have been qing duo as r1 and r2 the entire season. He has more games played than me qing with other people so where is this qing with low alts to get easier games bs? I legit just explained to you why high rated players in low rated games = NOT WORTH but you're too dense to even understand basic concepts. Anyone that has run into us this ranked season knows we were both on our mains. This is the last time im posting here to clarify misinformation because clearly no matter how much I explain it some people just lack common sense but keep yelling wintrade and cry because some people are just better than you.

Edit: because both of us are qing on our mains and not using low alts to tank rating here is how our qs go, and it is exactly why we get put into games we shouldnt be in.

and before you cry about offhour qing, look at the time.

All i'm saying is it's a thing people do. Not directly accusing you or anything, but you did try and say that DuoQ isn't exploitable at all, when the reality is; it is being and has been exploited season after season since it was reimplemented.

Now I may be a misinformed nobody(As that seems to be the go-to insult for top rated players to dealing with any sort of criticism) but I understand at least that the top spots are really volatile, and the formula for determining rank gain screws you, but not to the extent of +2/-40. That isn't even close to normal for that rating. As a content creator that's been in that top spot consistently, I don't see how you can expect people to believe it is.

Like I say, not accusing anyone of anything. I recognized your mains from the OPs screenshot even. You had just said that DuoQ isn't exploitable even thought it is, and you also gave what is either a pretty gross exaggeration of rank gain compared to rank lost, or; like I say, it could be DuoQing with a smurf because that would do it.

And it is absolutely practical to do that. If you are satisfied with whatever spot you have on the LB, that would be an easy way to keep your spot and keep up with decay and/or the minimum games LB requirement.

And that is an argument against DuoQ, not you specifically.

Pretty sure John from my team was the smurf. Trebbed for 3m, then ran directly to naru to feed on respawn.

Maybe @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 can clear up how the matchmaker decided this was an even game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Dawg idfk who u are but heres some advice, actually know what you're talking about before you spout nonsense. EVERY.SINGLE.GAME i have played was duo'd with someone who is higher rated than me so save me that bs. You are literally the epitome of every forum pleb with 0 information acting like they know anything, you dont.

We have been qing duo as r1 and r2 the entire season. He has more games played than me qing with other people so where is this qing with low alts to get easier games bs? I legit just explained to you why high rated players in low rated games = NOT WORTH but you're too dense to even understand basic concepts. Anyone that has run into us this ranked season knows we were both on our mains. This is the last time im posting here to clarify misinformation because clearly no matter how much I explain it some people just lack common sense but keep yelling wintrade and cry because some people are just better than you.

Edit: because both of us are qing on our mains and not using low alts to tank rating here is how our qs go, and it is exactly why we get put into games we shouldnt be in.

and before you cry about offhour qing, look at the time.

or; like I say, it could be DuoQing with a smurf because that would do it.

Funny enough the individual you are talking to has been previously dishonored for exactly this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

@"yanniell.1236" said:Oh, look. Naru abusing duoQ + off hours. Shocking.

I wonder how long it gonna take to Anet realizes that duo queue is killing what rest of their game mode.

Yikes homie. If you think I am voluntarily putting myself in games like this you are mistaken. The game OP is referring to I got a +2, and had we lost a -40. Those are also the games we are most susceptible to lose because to average out team rating we have to get low golds/silvers vs golds/plats because of our combined rating. No matter what time we Q we always get 6-8min queues and games like this. It has happened during NA prime, early na, and late na(prime PST for me). Also there is no such thing as 'abusing duo q" how bitter do you have to be to think someone using a feature is abusing it just because they are winning. Ideally we'd like to be in all plat/legend games, those are more fun and less punishing because when you gain +10 and lose -20(carrying 3 plats vs plats/legends is easier than carrying silvers who dont press buttons vs plats/golds) it feels alot better than when you lose -30+ and only gain 2-5. Alot of misinformation just wanted to clarify.

"Bla bla bla I want fair games too Bla bla bla".

If you really wanted good games, and not just ez wins, you two would be solo queing and facing each other in more balanced and fun matches.

Save us from your bs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ArenaNet Staff

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Dawg idfk who u are but heres some advice, actually know what you're talking about before you spout nonsense. EVERY.SINGLE.GAME i have played was duo'd with someone who is higher rated than me so save me that bs. You are literally the epitome of every forum pleb with 0 information acting like they know anything, you dont.

We have been qing duo as r1 and r2 the entire season. He has more games played than me qing with other people so where is this qing with low alts to get easier games bs? I legit just explained to you why high rated players in low rated games = NOT WORTH but you're too dense to even understand basic concepts. Anyone that has run into us this ranked season knows we were both on our mains. This is the last time im posting here to clarify misinformation because clearly no matter how much I explain it some people just lack common sense but keep yelling wintrade and cry because some people are just better than you.

Edit: because both of us are qing on our mains and not using low alts to tank rating here is how our qs go, and it is exactly why we get put into games we shouldnt be in.

and before you cry about offhour qing, look at the time.

All i'm saying is it's a thing people do. Not directly accusing you or anything, but you did try and say that DuoQ isn't exploitable at all, when the reality is; it is being and has been exploited season after season since it was reimplemented.

Now I may be a misinformed nobody(As that seems to be the go-to insult for top rated players to dealing with any sort of criticism) but I understand at least that the top spots are really volatile, and the formula for determining rank gain screws you, but not to the extent of +2/-40. That isn't even close to normal for that rating. As a content creator that's been in that top spot consistently, I don't see how you can expect people to believe it is.

Like I say, not accusing anyone of anything. I recognized your mains from the OPs screenshot even. You had just said that DuoQ isn't exploitable even thought it is, and you also gave what is either a pretty gross exaggeration of rank gain compared to rank lost, or; like I say, it could be DuoQing with a smurf because that would do it.

And it is absolutely practical to do that. If you are satisfied with whatever spot you have on the LB, that would be an easy way to keep your spot and keep up with decay and/or the minimum games LB requirement.

And that is an argument against DuoQ, not you specifically.

Pretty sure John from my team was the smurf. Trebbed for 3m, then ran directly to naru to feed on respawn.

Maybe @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 can clear up how the matchmaker decided this was an even game?

I could try to look up the match. I'd need the display name of one person in the match, the approximate date/time of the match and to make it easier, the final score.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Dawg idfk who u are but heres some advice, actually know what you're talking about before you spout nonsense. EVERY.SINGLE.GAME i have played was duo'd with someone who is higher rated than me so save me that bs. You are literally the epitome of every forum pleb with 0 information acting like they know anything, you dont.

We have been qing duo as r1 and r2 the entire season. He has more games played than me qing with other people so where is this qing with low alts to get easier games bs? I legit just explained to you why high rated players in low rated games = NOT WORTH but you're too dense to even understand basic concepts. Anyone that has run into us this ranked season knows we were both on our mains. This is the last time im posting here to clarify misinformation because clearly no matter how much I explain it some people just lack common sense but keep yelling wintrade and cry because some people are just better than you.

Edit: because both of us are qing on our mains and not using low alts to tank rating here is how our qs go, and it is exactly why we get put into games we shouldnt be in.

and before you cry about offhour qing, look at the time.

All i'm saying is it's a thing people do. Not directly accusing you or anything, but you did try and say that DuoQ isn't exploitable at all, when the reality is; it is being and has been exploited season after season since it was reimplemented.

Now I may be a misinformed nobody(As that seems to be the go-to insult for top rated players to dealing with any sort of criticism) but I understand at least that the top spots are really volatile, and the formula for determining rank gain screws you, but not to the extent of +2/-40. That isn't even close to normal for that rating. As a content creator that's been in that top spot consistently, I don't see how you can expect people to believe it is.

Like I say, not accusing anyone of anything. I recognized your mains from the OPs screenshot even. You had just said that DuoQ isn't exploitable even thought it is, and you also gave what is either a pretty gross exaggeration of rank gain compared to rank lost, or; like I say, it could be DuoQing with a smurf because that would do it.

And it is absolutely practical to do that. If you are satisfied with whatever spot you have on the LB, that would be an easy way to keep your spot and keep up with decay and/or the minimum games LB requirement.

And that is an argument against DuoQ, not you specifically.

Pretty sure John from my team was the smurf. Trebbed for 3m, then ran directly to naru to feed on respawn.

Maybe @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 can clear up how the matchmaker decided this was an even game?

I could try to look up the match. I'd need the display name of one person in the match, the approximate date/time of the match and to make it easier, the final score.

Thank you for the response!

  • Egorum.9506
  • 6/24/19 @ 0918 PST
  • Red: 501 Blue: 61
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Searching with friends on alternate duo’s with artificially tanked ratings, so that they end up on the abusing team is absolutely possible.

For example, two top players play on their primary accounts, but have their friends search as Duo on alt accounts every time they search .

If the team of artificially lower ranked accounts end up on the top team, they obviously play to win.

If the artificially tanked team ends up as the enemy, they carefully lose the match so it’s not obvious. In the worst scenarios, they intentionally disconnect.

Harder to investigate but entirely possible with the duo que system.

Then there is an another Smurphing scenario when top ranked players choose to play on alternate accounts to knock out other Platinium players from the leaderboard down. Although this is not technically abuse, it is extremely unfair as an average plat 1 player will be matched up versus a top 25 player that is severely under rated. The answer to this problem is that all of a player’s account should be linked, so that MMR algorithm will follow and track players each season as they jump between accounts. Again, this would take some effort on ANET’s part to link the majority accounts that play from the same IP address together.

When I used to play Warcraft 3, players that abused that system would intentionally lose 100 games and then que with their friend in Ranked matches to climb and obtain a top 10 spot on the leaderboard. No system is perfect, and all systems are exploitiable with effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ArenaNet Staff

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Dawg idfk who u are but heres some advice, actually know what you're talking about before you spout nonsense. EVERY.SINGLE.GAME i have played was duo'd with someone who is higher rated than me so save me that bs. You are literally the epitome of every forum pleb with 0 information acting like they know anything, you dont.

We have been qing duo as r1 and r2 the entire season. He has more games played than me qing with other people so where is this qing with low alts to get easier games bs? I legit just explained to you why high rated players in low rated games = NOT WORTH but you're too dense to even understand basic concepts. Anyone that has run into us this ranked season knows we were both on our mains. This is the last time im posting here to clarify misinformation because clearly no matter how much I explain it some people just lack common sense but keep yelling wintrade and cry because some people are just better than you.

Edit: because both of us are qing on our mains and not using low alts to tank rating here is how our qs go, and it is exactly why we get put into games we shouldnt be in.

and before you cry about offhour qing, look at the time.

All i'm saying is it's a thing people do. Not directly accusing you or anything, but you did try and say that DuoQ isn't exploitable at all, when the reality is; it is being and has been exploited season after season since it was reimplemented.

Now I may be a misinformed nobody(As that seems to be the go-to insult for top rated players to dealing with any sort of criticism) but I understand at least that the top spots are really volatile, and the formula for determining rank gain screws you, but not to the extent of +2/-40. That isn't even close to normal for that rating. As a content creator that's been in that top spot consistently, I don't see how you can expect people to believe it is.

Like I say, not accusing anyone of anything. I recognized your mains from the OPs screenshot even. You had just said that DuoQ isn't exploitable even thought it is, and you also gave what is either a pretty gross exaggeration of rank gain compared to rank lost, or; like I say, it could be DuoQing with a smurf because that would do it.

And it is absolutely practical to do that. If you are satisfied with whatever spot you have on the LB, that would be an easy way to keep your spot and keep up with decay and/or the minimum games LB requirement.

And that is an argument against DuoQ, not you specifically.

Pretty sure John from my team was the smurf. Trebbed for 3m, then ran directly to naru to feed on respawn.

Maybe @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 can clear up how the matchmaker decided this was an even game?

I could try to look up the match. I'd need the display name of one person in the match, the approximate date/time of the match and to make it easier, the final score.

Thank you for the response!
  • Egorum.9506
  • 6/24/19 @ 0918 PST
  • Red: 501 Blue: 61

Yep. That was definitely not a good match. Actually, probably the worst match I've ever personally looked up! Unfortunately, there is not much the matchmaker could have done in this case. 2 legendary players duo-queuing is near impossible to find another pair of legendary players playing at the same time.

I would bet the legendary players were in queue for close to 10 minutes at least. When a match is being built around you, the matchmaker looks for players within 25 rating of you. It doesn't start expanding the range until it's been looking for players for 5 minutes. After that, it expands slowly until it can find 10 players. To find the players it did for this match, it would likely have taken close to another 5 minutes.

We ran some experiments on the unranked matchmaker a while back, as some might recall. We tried several tweaks, but all it really did was make put some people in queue for 40+ minutes, with little discernible increase in match quality by the time they did finally make it in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ArenaNet Staff

Re: the matchmaker not keeping high rated players in queue longer: The reward for getting better at the game can't be, "You don't get to play anymore."Re: Duo queue - We thought about this for a long time. In the end, we decided it's just not fun to not be able to play with your friends. Additionally, removing a feature is a poor reward for getting better at the game. It also motivated all sorts of bad behavior, which I won't go into.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Re: the matchmaker not keeping high rated players in queue longer: The reward for getting better at the game can't be, "You don't get to play anymore."Re: Duo queue - We thought about this for a long time. In the end, we decided it's just not fun to not be able to play with your friends. Additionally, removing a feature is a poor reward for getting better at the game. It also motivated all sorts of bad behavior, which I won't go into.

The 2 people in legendary shouldn't beable to que together. What ever game they go into will be skewed in their favor 100%of the time. They should be pitted against each other to give each team equal competitive fairness. Im only a g3 player at best 350+points away from the 1st and 2nd NA players. And yet i have had a few games against them. But still it was a total waist of my time participating in that game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Re: the matchmaker not keeping high rated players in queue longer: The reward for getting better at the game can't be, "You don't get to play anymore."Re: Duo queue - We thought about this for a long time. In the end, we decided it's just not fun to not be able to play with your friends. Additionally, removing a feature is a poor reward for getting better at the game. It also motivated all sorts of bad behavior, which I won't go into.

The 2 people in legendary shouldn't beable to que together. What ever game they go into will be skewed in their favor 100%of the time. They should be pitted against each other to give each team equal competitive fairness. Im only a g3 player at best 350+points away from the 1st and 2nd NA players. And yet i have had a few games against them. But still it was a total waist of my time participating in that game.

Yeah, it was my understanding there was a ceiling above which you could only solo queue, somewhere in the mid platinum region.

I've been on both sides of the multi-hundred point wins and it certainly sucks the fun out. Looking at my last 10 matches (several of which I was teamed with afk players), I see 3 matches with a >250 point spread and 1 of those had nearly 400 points. I was on the winning side of 2 of those matches, but that still doesn't make them enjoyable.

The ~400 point game I lost and I lost a ton of rating despite not having any control over the match.

I guess my question is does the report button for idle or griefing players actually accomplish anything? Part of the reason I haven't played an spvp match in over a month is losing most of an entire rank (because of how the soft reset "placement" matches work) when I get teamed with people who have no intention to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...