So this is what happens in Season 5/3rd Expansion

Teratus.2859 · June 27, 2019

My money's on Season 5 dealing with the fallout Kralkatorrik created by rampaging through the mists.

I think we'll be getting 3 possibly 4 maps this season instead of 1 per episode, each new map will be in the mists rather than on the open world and they will be based on the 3 damaged god realms Kralkatorrik flew through.The Underworld.Fissure of Woe.And Melandru's Lost Domain.

Main villain for season 5 could maybe be Menzies who might take advantage of Balthazars absense, his drained eternal forces which Balthzar had turned into forged and of all the chaos Kralkatorrik wrought to send his Shadow Army through to Tyria, the Underworld and Melandru's Lost Domain.

Adamixos.6785 · June 27, 2019

@"Kalavier.1097" said:
If the person who literally is hearing the thoughts of Aurene and has an intense connection with the dragon goes "she's gone" are you going to go "NOPE, SHE ALIVE CAUSE JOKO."

If I had any common sense, Yes.In other words: Taimi, ever since she is in existence, has discovered newer and newer things about dragons - the fact, that with all the evidence she has collected and the critical thinking the story has led us to believe she possesses, she couldn't think of this while pressing F(akest cry ever recorded in voice acting history), is baffling at best.

Randulf.7614 · June 28, 2019

I’d like to see the Consortium fleshed our more and become more involved, either as a neutral party working in maps or as a shadowy organisation who are up to something secret

Dami.5046 · June 28, 2019

People bang on so much about wanting different things, so i'm going to bang my drum and say I hope they do something completely different. The Aurene story reached it conclusion, she is alive and an Elder.And Hell, let's forget about what happened in season 4 and start a fresh with a story which possibly leads us to a new expansion.

Psientist.6437 · June 28, 2019

@Adamixos.6785 said:
@"Kalavier.1097" said:
If the person who literally is hearing the thoughts of Aurene and has an intense connection with the dragon goes "she's gone" are you going to go "NOPE, SHE ALIVE CAUSE JOKO."

If I had any common sense, Yes.In other words: Taimi, ever since she is in existence, has discovered newer and newer things about dragons - the fact, that with all the evidence she has collected and the critical thinking the story has led us to believe she possesses, she couldn't think of this while pressing F(akest cry ever recorded in voice acting history), is baffling at best.

No one would even have to be 100% certain that she could resurrect, they only had to pay minimum respect to her corpse. Easiest experiment in the history of Tyrian science.

Psientist.6437 · June 28, 2019

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
@Randulf.7614 said:
@Eekasqueak.7850 said:
@Psientist.6437 said:
@Eekasqueak.7850 said:The resurrection doesn't bother me inherently because they wrote themselves into a corner with the death itself which IMO wasn't needed.

Or was it? Aurene was not the same dragon after she resurrected. She may have discovered something while dead that set her on the path of revealing the true nature of The All. I wouldn't be surprised if her death and resurrection ended up being important plot points that they tried to camouflage with pretentious and unrealistic trauma drama and anguish kitten.

I don't think they plan that far ahead.

Correct. They plan one episode at a time. Her death and resurrection were not planned together for example but as events decided at the start of that episode.

Not quite. They create a basic outline of the season at the beginning of writing it, but they don't (necessarily) create connections between events or how/why events occur.

They knew they wanted to kill Aurene off fairly early on in the season, and thus they knew they'd bring her back. But it wasn't until they had gotten to writing Episode 6 that they had official thought process into how she comes back.

That said, them planning in the beginning that her death was anything more than a kick for drama is pretty much nulled by their writing process. If they didn't even have plans to resurrect Aurene via Joko's magic when they had planned either event, then they're not likely gonna be planning ahead that her death was part of some grand plan or personal revelation. It was just a shock value in the end, and the reasons for her death being necessary plot-wise got tacted on afterwards.

You could also interpret the story as the writers still trying to hide what happened to Aurene during her death. They had a panel discussion about using death as more than just a plot device. They are clearly self conscious about using death as a plot device. Perhaps she learned a new way to maintain the integrity of The All or a method to fast track the training of new Elder Dragons.

Perhaps I am just resisting the idea that they killed Aurene just for pretentious shock value, but I also couldn't get all the way through the War Eternal guild chat because of all the unearned pretentiousness.

Konig Des Todes.2086 · June 28, 2019

@Psientist.6437 said:You could also interpret the story as the writers still trying to hide what happened to Aurene during her death. They had a panel discussion about using death as more than just a plot device. They are clearly self conscious about using death as a plot device.

If they truly were self-conscious about death as a plot device, they wouldn't have brought her back in the most contrived ways right away.

Perhaps I am just resisting the idea that they killed Aurene just for pretentious shock value, but I also couldn't get all the way through the War Eternal guild chat because of all the unearned pretentiousness.

Welcome to ArenaNet writers 101. I'm rather used to that pretentiousness that has existed since Season 1. Even with it exchanging hands, that attitude remains the same, which is very weird to me.

Psientist.6437 · June 28, 2019

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
@Psientist.6437 said:You could also interpret the story as the writers still trying to hide what happened to Aurene during her death. They had a panel discussion about using death as more than just a plot device. They are clearly self conscious about using death as a plot device.

If they truly were self-conscious about death as a plot device, they wouldn't have brought her back in the most contrived ways right away.

Perhaps I am just resisting the idea that they killed Aurene just for pretentious shock value, but I also couldn't get all the way through the War Eternal guild chat because of all the unearned pretentiousness.

Welcome to ArenaNet writers 101. I'm rather used to that pretentiousness that has existed since Season 1. Even with it exchanging hands, that attitude remains the same, which is very weird to me.

Because it is weird. They could have played her death and resurrection Tyrian straight, without gimmicks. Death and resurrection is a natural part of Tyria and the death and rebirth of dragons would be supernatural. I made it far enough into the guild chat to hear them describe Aurene as something never before seen in Tyria and the process of writing her resurrection. They had far less contrived stories for her resurrection, we didn't have to see Aurene as little miss just Joko-ing. It looks to me like the cover story camouflaging the plot device was flimsy but worked long enough and they wanted to get past it as quickly as possible. I am still convinced there is a major revelation about The All and magiphysics ahead and Aurene's existence changes the math of the dragon plot.

Vlast was sacrificed to Balthazar's plot. His death did progress the plot but wasn't crucial. If there were such high demand for dragons he could have lived. Unless they've fully committed to stretching the dragon plot with gathering new dragons, then the benefit of Vlast's death has to be weighed against the cost of writing a new dragon into the story. Vlast also demonstrates that Elder dragon candidates can be reluctant. One of the ways Aurene is special is her willingness. The burden of being an Elder dragon must be intense, the risk to magical consciousness immense. It took 2 seasons to cultivate Aurene. You can't shorten that without decreasing the value of singularly valuable Aurene. From my perspective, the math doesn't predict the 6 Elder Dragon plot.

Aurene's on a mission to reintegrate The All.

A part of Arnenanet 101 is the pretentiousness common to innovators. It is the weirdness of Elon Musk rediscovering tunneling. The Tyrian story must be told as a game. I think you would need to give the writers more control of gamification (instances, battles etc.) to tell the lore well. That much control would insist on a perhaps unreachable level of plot planning. As well, the audience rejects many valuable and rational devices such as embodying another character. I do not underestimate how difficult plot planning is and hope my criticism isn't pretentious.

Bast.7253 · June 28, 2019

@Teratus.2859 said:My money's on Season 5 dealing with the fallout Kralkatorrik created by rampaging through the mists.
I think we'll be getting 3 possibly 4 maps this season instead of 1 per episode, each new map will be in the mists rather than on the open world and they will be based on the 3 damaged god realms Kralkatorrik flew through.The Underworld.Fissure of Woe.And Melandru's Lost Domain.
Main villain for season 5 could maybe be Menzies who might take advantage of Balthazars absense, his drained eternal forces which Balthzar had turned into forged and of all the chaos Kralkatorrik wrought to send his Shadow Army through to Tyria, the Underworld and Melandru's Lost Domain.

If they didn’t do a mists map for this chunk of landmass that just fell out of a portal in the middle of the ocean straight from the mists, I’d bet they probably won’t do a map in the mists for anything else. The whole luring Kralk back to Tyria felt like kind of a clunky way to avoid having a map in the mists to begin with.

Poormany.4507 · June 28, 2019

@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@Teratus.2859 said:My money's on Season 5 dealing with the fallout Kralkatorrik created by rampaging through the mists.
I think we'll be getting 3 possibly 4 maps this season instead of 1 per episode, each new map will be in the mists rather than on the open world and they will be based on the 3 damaged god realms Kralkatorrik flew through.The Underworld.Fissure of Woe.And Melandru's Lost Domain.
Main villain for season 5 could maybe be Menzies who might take advantage of Balthazars absense, his drained eternal forces which Balthzar had turned into forged and of all the chaos Kralkatorrik wrought to send his Shadow Army through to Tyria, the Underworld and Melandru's Lost Domain.

If they didn’t do a mists map for this chunk of landmass that just fell out of a portal in the middle of the ocean straight from the mists, I’d bet they probably won’t do a map in the mists for anything else. The whole luring Kralk back to Tyria felt like kind of a clunky way to avoid having a map in the mists to begin with.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they directly said at some point that there most likely won't be separate Mists maps due to technical problems with the implementation. We could, and probably will though, like in PoF and LWS4, have parts of the story be in the Mists, just not separate maps.

Randulf.7614 · June 29, 2019

@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@Teratus.2859 said:My money's on Season 5 dealing with the fallout Kralkatorrik created by rampaging through the mists.
I think we'll be getting 3 possibly 4 maps this season instead of 1 per episode, each new map will be in the mists rather than on the open world and they will be based on the 3 damaged god realms Kralkatorrik flew through.The Underworld.Fissure of Woe.And Melandru's Lost Domain.
Main villain for season 5 could maybe be Menzies who might take advantage of Balthazars absense, his drained eternal forces which Balthzar had turned into forged and of all the chaos Kralkatorrik wrought to send his Shadow Army through to Tyria, the Underworld and Melandru's Lost Domain.

If they didn’t do a mists map for this chunk of landmass that just fell out of a portal in the middle of the ocean straight from the mists, I’d bet they probably won’t do a map in the mists for anything else. The whole luring Kralk back to Tyria felt like kind of a clunky way to avoid having a map in the mists to begin with.

As per the above post to mine, they have a rule for no maps not part of the main works map

Konig Des Todes.2086 · June 30, 2019

@"Psientist.6437" said:Because it is weird. They could have played her death and resurrection Tyrian straight, without gimmicks. Death and resurrection is a natural part of Tyria and the death and rebirth of dragons would be supernatural. I made it far enough into the guild chat to hear them describe Aurene as something never before seen in Tyria and the process of writing her resurrection. They had far less contrived stories for her resurrection, we didn't have to see Aurene as little miss just Joko-ing.

And we go back to the whole "lack of pre-planning" and "not the best writing quality". They're pretty much admitted that, aside from a few kernals here and there to serve as lead-ins to future plots 10 years down the line, they don't really think ahead for their writing, and only make connections to past content retroactively. That's literally what they did with Aurene's death and resurrection. They killed her and planned for her resurrection with zero thought into how to bring her back realistically. They brought her back immediately because "everyone knew it would happen" - which is the worst bloody excuse anyone could make to explain bad pacing in storytelling - and they wanted "to get to the action right away".

It feels contrived and poorly planned because it is. At least in part, and the resurrection of Aurene is definitely included in that part.

And the whole thing about Aurene being "first of her kind" is just referring to her being an Elder Dragon with a connection to mortals and being able to withstand magics that would be conflicting and harmful in others.

Vlast was sacrificed to Balthazar's plot. His death did progress the plot but wasn't crucial. If there were such high demand for dragons he could have lived. Unless they've fully committed to stretching the dragon plot with gathering new dragons, then the benefit of Vlast's death has to be weighed against the cost of writing a new dragon into the story.

They killed off Vlast pretty much solely so that they could have Aurene in a place of danger and in position to absorb some of the magic that Kralkatorrik let out, so that they could force grow her. They knowingly and willingly killed off Vlast before we could get to know him - as they explained in one Guild Chat (or was it a reddit AMA? Maybe both), his immediate death and learning about him from the memory crystals was meant to be a story of loss and "what could have been".

They didn't kill him because the plot doesn't demand for more ED replacements.

It took 2 seasons to cultivate Aurene. You can't shorten that without decreasing the value of singularly valuable Aurene. From my perspective, the math doesn't predict the 6 Elder Dragon plot.

Sure it can be done. Either having others besides the Commander do the raising and thus allow the writers to put a character who's attached to the candidate on the proverbial bus (something they do frequently for half the main cast at a time ever since S3), or explain it away with a "we've done it once now we're used to it". But I would hope for the former, since 1) it'd expand the importance to other characters and not make the Commander an End-All-Be-All figure; and 2) it'd reduce repeating the same plot again, and again, and again.

Mikali.9651 · July 8, 2019

@Psientist.6437 said:Aurene's too young to be tied down with a family. She deserves the chance to travel and explore herself. Besides, if there is anything that will plant the Torment in her soul, it would be raising 5 kids as a single mother.

you want her to do what it is advised to young women today so they become single post 30 years old women staying alone with cats? not good advice.

MithranArkanere.8957 · July 8, 2019

I'm sure Aurene can't handle all that magic alone, but I'm not sure she'll make babies to deal with it.

It would be more fun to go out and explore, and have the priory and whispers get us some leads to investigate possible alternatives to replace the other elder dragons.

More focus on exploration, mystery, wonder and going into The Great Unknown and less on dragon killing for a while.

Psientist.6437 · July 8, 2019

@Mikali.9651 said:
@Psientist.6437 said:Aurene's too young to be tied down with a family. She deserves the chance to travel and explore herself. Besides, if there is anything that will plant the Torment in her soul, it would be raising 5 kids as a single mother.

you want her to do what it is advised to young women today so they become single post 30 years old women staying alone with cats? not good advice.

You've convinced me! Aurene and all woman should stay focused on childbirth and their men, I mean husbands. If Aurene has children, she better be married. Obviously, the Commander will give her away but if the player doesn't have a male character will they have to make a male character?

Kalavier.1097 · July 9, 2019

@Psientist.6437 said:
@Kalavier.1097 said:
@Psientist.6437 said:Thank you for the link, I loved this part: "The name itself is a Dead Unicorn Trope as few writers are willing to literally use a Crystal Dragon"Aurene's death and resurection was poorly handled. All of those Tyrians who loved Aurene, fought beside her, knew she had eaten a Lich but for some reason forget they live in Tyria and spend days moping around her impaled body. The way the studio tried to sell this scenario was pretentious.

A: Joko bounced back up near-instantly, Aurene did not.B: Nobody knew if Joko had an artifact keeping him alive somewhere or the magic was within himself. Most people saw and reacted to Aurene eating a mummy, not going "Aha, she's consuming his magic and gaining it!"C: Emotions. When people get very emotional, they may not think rationally. The commander an Aurene both saw her not moving, appearing dead, and Caithe's crystal blooms that came from a connection to Aurene fade away. Caithe couldn't hear Aurene or feel her emotions/thoughts anymore.

If the person who literally is hearing the thoughts of Aurene and has an intense connection with the dragon goes "she's gone" are you going to go "NOPE, SHE ALIVE CAUSE JOKO."

I think these are nonsense answers based on the tricks the writers used to sell the scenario to players. The tricks only work if we assume Tyrians know as little about their world as we do, as though they are just visiting as well. Which is ridiculous.

Within the first five minutes the Commander or someone else would be looking for any witnesses to what happened. Did anyone see Aurene's magic leave her body? Did any Asuran devices pick up her magic leaving her body. Was there any sign of her magic reaching the other Elder Dragons? There would be plenty of devices and people watching them.

How do soldiers react to the death of their comrades? They get very emotional but they never leave corpses impaled on spikes for days. Tyrians would have had Aurene back alive within minutes. They wouldn't need to prove to themselves that Joko's magic lived on in her, they would have hoped and acted.

How are they nonsense answers? Again, literally nobody knew how Joko kept himself immortal. Hell even Turai Ossa resorted to literally shoving the lich under a boulder and sealing it up. As for the other part, We read in Rytlock's requiem that Caithe and the Commander basically sat next to Aurene after the battle and didn't move much at all. The commander eventually left and was wandering Lion's Arch when Caithe called them. We know it was a span of several days.

There was no Witnesses, as literally everybody around during the final blast was a fair bit above that level, and the closest ballista setup was totally branded with most everybody there dead, trapped, or wounded. People got down to Aurene as the commander stumbled out of where they got blasted through a cave wall.

So nobody would've seen the magic (Note, when Kralk died and Aurene absorbed his magic there was no explosion because she was right there. They could've assumed Kralk instantly devoured the magic.) leave because everybody had been a fair distance away from Aurene and Kralk's mouth was literally a throw away from her. Asura devices may have picked it up, but I highly doubt anybody was actively keeping an eye on their scanners when they saw Kralk suddenly rear up and roar. Assuming Gorrik and Taimi were in the forge area itself (reasonable as it's where a bunch of Asura tech had already been setup), I assume they probably evacuated before the final blast happened, or when Kralk started branding that section of the cave with the last ballista set, and commander attacking his eye.

As far as we know, Gorrik and Taimi (the two experts on this stuff) were the ones watching the devices, and rushed down. With Kralk instantly retreating to the mists to feed and escape, they could've seen a spike/raise in his magic and assumed it was Aurene. Cause you know, The person who was mentally linked to Aurene was shown losing her crystal flowers (from Aurene) and completely unable to hear the thoughts of the dragon, saying "She's gone."

And soldiers do try to bury their dead, yes. But I'm pretty sure everybody backed off from the Commander and Caithe in their grieving, and/or focused on cleanup, search and rescue, and burying the dead of the Pact. Aurene was far from the only death that happened during that battle. IIRC there is dialogue about how the Dredge dug Almorra out of the rubble where she got completely buried.

There is also the situation of while Aurene may have been dead and impaled, and the commander and Caithe sitting there, branded may have been active in Thunderhead Keep and it's tunnels around.

"They wouldn't need to prove that Joko's magic lived in her, they would've hoped and acted." Again, we saw Joko bounce back up instantly, actively triggering a trap as he was still stuck on the ground. Caithe, who was again, directly linked to Aurene said she was gone. Who would try to challenge the two people who had a mental link to Aurene and go "No, She must be alive because she ate Joko!"

As Konig said... > @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Don't forget D: Until that moment, Aurene and the Elder Dragons only gained new powers from consuming magic from dead Elder Dragons and demigods, and Joko was neither.
Honestly, Aurene becoming immortal because of Joko's magic makes less sense than people believing she'd become immortal because of Joko's magic.

Another reason to find ^ improbable, from an in-universe showing. The Awoken showed zero link to Aurene, and She showed zero connection to them. She did nothing concerning undead (She only appeared to use some visions, and breathed fire as abilities are concerned). So, viewing it entirely from the eyes of the pact and people of Tyria, they had little reason to think she had gained anything from devouring Joko beyond an upset stomach, but had destroyed whatever kept Joko immortal.

Psientist.6437 · July 10, 2019

@Kalavier.1097 said:
@Psientist.6437 said:
@Kalavier.1097 said:
@Psientist.6437 said:Thank you for the link, I loved this part: "The name itself is a Dead Unicorn Trope as few writers are willing to literally use a Crystal Dragon"Aurene's death and resurection was poorly handled. All of those Tyrians who loved Aurene, fought beside her, knew she had eaten a Lich but for some reason forget they live in Tyria and spend days moping around her impaled body. The way the studio tried to sell this scenario was pretentious.