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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:

@neven.3785 said:DPS meters do not belong in this game. Take WvW into account. Meter Humpers will blow cooldowns early, or they will run specs counter to whats best for the group, because their numbers appear higher. Meanwhile ignoring the effects of boon conversion, coordinated bursts and optimal group synergy. All for the sake of a few extra numbers.

I usually roam or scout, and when I end up the same place as the tag, have had people (rarely) comment on my dps. My only reason for opposing meters, is because some of them come with "other" utilities. Like, when the same person who commented on dps, also asks why I am running a certain rune or sigil (meaning they can see my gear). No reason for any of those things to be in the game.

That is literally not possible or at least not possible with ToS compliant addons or a ToS compliant version of arcdps.

What is possible though is people noticing effects which go off on certain sigils or runes. Quite a lot of runes or sigils can be easily extrapolated by their effect both visually or by boons/conditions/cleaneses/etc they provide. People in competative game modes like pvp and wvw pay especially close attention to those kind of things.

In the past it was possible with one of the common DPS meters used. Also range check that told.you how many enemies are nearby. I left a guild I was a long time member of because they started interrogating members over specific slotted gear pieces or a minor trait choice. I wasn't the target but I'm of firm opinion that it was not how to run a guild especially since it violated terms of service. Other ways to git gud without such tools.

The "tool" that allowed that was banned a very long time ago.

One of the tools that did was banned, yes. The other one stopped distributing a version that had the same TOS breaking features publicly and was then greenlighted by the developers.

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@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:... DPS is not the end all be all. ...

This. This is THE most important fact about fractals, and there are a very high percentage of players who simply can't understand that. I avoid any group whose advertisement says "DPS" in it unless there are no other options.

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@Mysticjedi.6053 said:DPS meters are good for groups who want to clear content fast because they either;A. Think speed equals skillB. Have a limited okay window and want to go through materials they have already done for the joy of it, without teaching it

Typically I look for semi exp groups when I have plenty of time and don't care as I do not expect them to use DPS meters. I like for exp. groups when I am in a rush and expect my DOS to be monitored.

If you are concerned about not hitting benchmarks play Druid, Healbrand, or Chrono. Their dogs sucks, but that isn't why they brought. Just keep everyone else alive and boon'd up and life is good.

Or my favorite, a condi minion reaper who specializes in breakbar-breaking, boon-stripping, and being alive long enough to rally (or even revive) other teammates. He has miserable DPS (except in end-case situations where he switches to greatsword.) But, interrupting Ensolyss in his big windup is SUCH a great feeling that I really don't care what others think about my DPS. Or, my all-time favorite: killing Firestorm while downed and all of the other four players are defeated. But, that only happened once. Interrupting Ensolyss happens more frequently.

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@zionophir.6845 said:

@neven.3785 said:In the past it was possible with one of the common DPS meters used. Also range check that told.you how many enemies are nearby. I left a guild I was a long time member of because they started interrogating members over specific slotted gear pieces or a minor trait choice. I wasn't the target but I'm of firm opinion that it was not how to run a guild especially since it violated terms of service. Other ways to git gud without such tools.

There is a reason those tools where banned and Arc was not. Not sure how that's relevant now.

@zionophir.6845 said:so does arcdps dictate your "Rotation"?

of course you don't just 1111111 the Violet Boss Right? assuming that you've played a single class for how many, 7 years, you don't just 111111 right? there are 9 other skills, right?

and you can even not copy a build using a website and discover by yourselves that there are higher damage build customizations other than the meta builds in the website..

i can just bring a warrior without banners and still damage is still high... its called "traits for weapon/skill cooldown reduction.."

right?

I'm not quite sure what your point here is.Arc doesn't dictate rotations, it simply let's you check if you or others are performing them up to standard and assists in the creation of them by providing feedback.

Plenty of skills reduce DPS due to cast times or aftercasts. It's not just not pressing 1. Additionally a lot of DPS builds utilize combos/burst windows, aka creating damage modifiers and then using as many of the highest damage skills available as possible in them.If you don't know the rotation, there is plenty you can do wrong.

The builds and rotations that are on those sites are there because they are the highest DPS achievable to current knowledge.If you came up with something higher, feel free to let the rest of us know.

Bringing Banners is a DPS sacrifice Warriors make to increase Squad DPS, which is all that matters.So yes, not taking Banners should not only result in "still" high personal DPS, but higher.Personal DPS isn't strictly what you take a Banner Warrior for though.

Again, not sure what the point is you are trying to make.

k.

assuming that you bring the Strength and Discipline banners

4 attributes gets to +100..

ok

compare that to berserker stance, which when used will make your adren full (try to know if how many times) and balanced stance (coz if you got CCed by the boss equals no damage). and traits that lengthen the stances (so more fast adrenaline recharge). Berserker Stance will make any conditions on you useless too. (Blind, Weakness, anything that can kitten or prevent damage)

now go to the weapons = reduced recharge means weapon skill is almost being used everytime, yes? make your main weapons (GS/whatever) have reduced recharge

and tactics - 3 - 3 -3

and since your weapon is GS and you slotted the GS cooldown reduction, you have access to Might Makes Right?

Right?

so now compare Berserker Stance + Balanced Stance (on a stance duration increase) versus Str and Disc Banners

and yeah, if the boss is condi heavy inflicting damage gimping/prevention, +400 on the attributes, even when it's shared, is almost incomparable/useless coz your constant uninterrupted damage became 0 with the Bosses condis..

You genuinely have no idea what the role of the Banner Warrior is.

4000 Squad wide Attributes with Banners + 500 from EA, in part needed to crit cap all your DPS's, as well as the CC from Mace/Mace is the main reason to bring pBS to Raids.

If you get constantly CC'ed or are afflicted with Weakness for a substantial amount of time, I a) am not sure what boss that is supposed to be and b) your supports suck.

In terms of Squad DPS and Utility, yes, your suggested build pales in comparison.Making a build that has higher personal DPS as a Banner Warrior is a no brainer, since Banner Warrior isn't strictly a DPS...

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I've said this many times, as have others; either ban dps meters or remove raids altogether. Since we know raids aren't going anywhere, next logical step is to ban dps meters, but moreso be lightning quick to enforce it.

If Anet simply just.. deleted someone's account on the very first infraction of criticizing someone else, the problem would fix itself over night. Hell, even make a video of the screenshotted comment, the taking control of the person's account, and deleting all their characters, then post it on the forums as an example. Yes, the problem would fix itself overnight.

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:I've said this many times, as have others; either ban dps meters or remove raids altogether. Since we know raids aren't going anywhere, next logical step is to ban dps meters, but moreso be lightning quick to enforce it.

If Anet simply just.. deleted someone's account on the very first infraction of criticizing someone else, the problem would fix itself over night. Hell, even make a video of the screenshotted comment, the taking control of the person's account, and deleting all their characters, then post it on the forums as an example. Yes, the problem would fix itself overnight.

The same issues (toxicity) appeared in dungeons even before dps meters where a thing

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:I've said this many times, as have others; either ban dps meters or remove raids altogether. Since we know raids aren't going anywhere, next logical step is to ban dps meters, but moreso be lightning quick to enforce it.

If Anet simply just.. deleted someone's account on the very first infraction of criticizing someone else, the problem would fix itself over night. Hell, even make a video of the screenshotted comment, the taking control of the person's account, and deleting all their characters, then post it on the forums as an example. Yes, the problem would fix itself overnight.

What exactly would that accomplish?

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:I've said this many times, as have others; either ban dps meters or remove raids altogether. Since we know raids aren't going anywhere, next logical step is to ban dps meters, but moreso be lightning quick to enforce it.

If Anet simply just.. deleted someone's account on the very first infraction of criticizing someone else, the problem would fix itself over night. Hell, even make a video of the screenshotted comment, the taking control of the person's account, and deleting all their characters, then post it on the forums as an example. Yes, the problem would fix itself overnight.

Somebody can be a furry or a bronny and be an expert raider. Theirs really no reason to call them out seperatly

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A "furry or bronny" thats actually good at the game should have enough brain to realize the post wasnt directed at him for those players actually care about their performance and laugh it off

unless were still in THAT generation who thinks using PC wording is above everything else, well maybe get used to real life then cause its not always peanuts and butterflies

dude, the "sh" word is being censored... well no problem, i see why but its being replaced with KITTEN ok? where are we? in the kindergarden or sth? just put **** on it jesusthis stuff literally confirms some of my points about this community

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@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:DPS meters are good for groups who want to clear content fast because they either;A. Think speed equals skillB. Have a limited okay window and want to go through materials they have already done for the joy of it, without teaching it

Typically I look for semi exp groups when I have plenty of time and don't care as I do not expect them to use DPS meters. I like for exp. groups when I am in a rush and expect my DOS to be monitored.

If you are concerned about not hitting benchmarks play Druid, Healbrand, or Chrono. Their dogs sucks, but that isn't why they brought. Just keep everyone else alive and boon'd up and life is good.

Or my favorite, a condi minion reaper who specializes in breakbar-breaking, boon-stripping, and being alive long enough to rally (or even revive) other teammates. He has miserable DPS (except in end-case situations where he switches to greatsword.) But, interrupting Ensolyss in his big windup is SUCH a great feeling that I really don't care what others think about my DPS. Or, my all-time favorite: killing Firestorm while downed and all of the other four players are defeated. But, that only happened once. Interrupting Ensolyss happens more frequently.

See the issue here is that you can play a power reaper, do exactly the same thing and do double the dps. In fact a power reaper would actually be better at breakbars because you don't actually need to use executioner's scythe for damage, you can just save it for cc bars. The only advantage I would see is epi and range damage but considering you are saying that you are doing miserable damage, I don't think that's helping much here. I think not understanding how some builds and skills work is the issue here. Plenty of classes can instant break cc bars, that is not good enough because you need to do damage and break bars, that's what the role is called no? A dps. If you want to play off meta builds like condi reaper then be my guest, but understanding the limitations of classes and builds is incredibly important to understanding the game.

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:If Anet simply just.. deleted someone's account on the very first infraction of criticizing someone else, the problem would fix itself over night. Hell, even make a video of the screenshotted comment, the taking control of the person's account, and deleting all their characters, then post it on the forums as an example. Yes, the problem would fix itself overnight.

If Anet simply deleted someone's account on their first LFG abuse, joining a group asking for something while not providing what the team is asking for, then DPS meters would no longer be used to kick others as there would be no need to do so.

So the meters will be used only to better teams. But this cannot happen as we all know those guys joining groups they don't belong to will never take responsibility and instead come on the forums and bitch about it.

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@zionophir.6845 said:

@neven.3785 said:In the past it was possible with one of the common DPS meters used. Also range check that told.you how many enemies are nearby. I left a guild I was a long time member of because they started interrogating members over specific slotted gear pieces or a minor trait choice. I wasn't the target but I'm of firm opinion that it was not how to run a guild especially since it violated terms of service. Other ways to git gud without such tools.

There is a reason those tools where banned and Arc was not. Not sure how that's relevant now.

@zionophir.6845 said:so does arcdps dictate your "Rotation"?

of course you don't just 1111111 the Violet Boss Right? assuming that you've played a single class for how many, 7 years, you don't just 111111 right? there are 9 other skills, right?

and you can even not copy a build using a website and discover by yourselves that there are higher damage build customizations other than the meta builds in the website..

i can just bring a warrior without banners and still damage is still high... its called "traits for weapon/skill cooldown reduction.."

right?

I'm not quite sure what your point here is.Arc doesn't dictate rotations, it simply let's you check if you or others are performing them up to standard and assists in the creation of them by providing feedback.

Plenty of skills reduce DPS due to cast times or aftercasts. It's not just not pressing 1. Additionally a lot of DPS builds utilize combos/burst windows, aka creating damage modifiers and then using as many of the highest damage skills available as possible in them.If you don't know the rotation, there is plenty you can do wrong.

The builds and rotations that are on those sites are there because they are the highest DPS achievable to current knowledge.If you came up with something higher, feel free to let the rest of us know.

Bringing Banners is a DPS sacrifice Warriors make to increase Squad DPS, which is all that matters.So yes, not taking Banners should not only result in "still" high personal DPS, but higher.Personal DPS isn't strictly what you take a Banner Warrior for though.

Again, not sure what the point is you are trying to make.

k.

assuming that you bring the Strength and Discipline banners

4 attributes gets to +100..

ok

compare that to berserker stance, which when used will make your adren full (try to know if how many times) and balanced stance (coz if you got CCed by the boss equals no damage). and traits that lengthen the stances (so more fast adrenaline recharge). Berserker Stance will make any conditions on you useless too. (Blind, Weakness, anything that can kitten or prevent damage)

now go to the weapons = reduced recharge means weapon skill is almost being used everytime, yes? make your main weapons (GS/whatever) have reduced recharge

and tactics - 3 - 3 -3

and since your weapon is GS and you slotted the GS cooldown reduction, you have access to Might Makes Right?

Right?

so now compare Berserker Stance + Balanced Stance (on a stance duration increase) versus Str and Disc Banners

and yeah, if the boss is condi heavy inflicting damage gimping/prevention, +400 on the attributes, even when it's shared, is almost incomparable/useless coz your constant uninterrupted damage became 0 with the Bosses condis..

No, actually 4 attributes are pushed by 4,000 total. Banners go on 10 people. Now let's be generous and assume only damage dealers, still makes banners give 400 stats to 6 people in a raid (still 2,400 total stats), and 3 people in fractals (1,200 total stats). The math has been done and even for fractals, banners win out damage wise.

Then you factor in how damage is calculated and how more damage stats on the top end increase your damage significantly.

Then you factor in that Strength banner gives power AND condition damage and discipline gives crit and critical damage (and is often accounted for in builds to reach 100% thus making people not use assassins but berserker gear) so your entire condition damage assumption goes out the window.

That's why it was mentioned that banners are:

Bringing Banners is a DPS sacrifice Warriors make to increase Squad DPS, which is all that matters.

By your same logic druids should not give boons but play soulbeast for damage, chronos should always be dps instead of support and Firebrands would not exist since guardians should be running Dragonhunter for maximum power dps.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:One of the tools that did was banned, yes. The other one stopped distributing a version that had the same TOS breaking features publicly and was then greenlighted by the developers.

ArcDPS was greenlit once it wan't breaking the TOS anymoreedit: was Arc breaking the TOS?

I can't remeber much about it, as I haven't used it back then, but at least the hp numbers for the enemies had to be removed. I think it was also possible to see the dps of people outside of the squad/group, which was removed too.

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@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:DPS meters are good for groups who want to clear content fast because they either;A. Think speed equals skillB. Have a limited okay window and want to go through materials they have already done for the joy of it, without teaching it

Typically I look for semi exp groups when I have plenty of time and don't care as I do not expect them to use DPS meters. I like for exp. groups when I am in a rush and expect my DOS to be monitored.

If you are concerned about not hitting benchmarks play Druid, Healbrand, or Chrono. Their dogs sucks, but that isn't why they brought. Just keep everyone else alive and boon'd up and life is good.

Or my favorite, a condi minion reaper who specializes in breakbar-breaking, boon-stripping, and being alive long enough to rally (or even revive) other teammates. He has miserable DPS (except in end-case situations where he switches to greatsword.) But, interrupting Ensolyss in his big windup is SUCH a great feeling that I really don't care what others think about my DPS. Or, my all-time favorite: killing Firestorm while downed and all of the other four players are defeated. But, that only happened once. Interrupting Ensolyss happens more frequently.

I would kick those builds on sight. Sorry but all dps builds can bring tons of cc on top of dps. A minion condi reaper doesnt even bring more cc than the standard dps reaper with golem and wh.Ensyloss dps happens more frequently? You are probably not playing t4 or cms at all where dps actually matters.

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@Asum.4960 said:

@neven.3785 said:In the past it was possible with one of the common DPS meters used. Also range check that told.you how many enemies are nearby. I left a guild I was a long time member of because they started interrogating members over specific slotted gear pieces or a minor trait choice. I wasn't the target but I'm of firm opinion that it was not how to run a guild especially since it violated terms of service. Other ways to git gud without such tools.

There is a reason those tools where banned and Arc was not. Not sure how that's relevant now.

@zionophir.6845 said:so does arcdps dictate your "Rotation"?

of course you don't just 1111111 the Violet Boss Right? assuming that you've played a single class for how many, 7 years, you don't just 111111 right? there are 9 other skills, right?

and you can even not copy a build using a website and discover by yourselves that there are higher damage build customizations other than the meta builds in the website..

i can just bring a warrior without banners and still damage is still high... its called "traits for weapon/skill cooldown reduction.."

right?

I'm not quite sure what your point here is.Arc doesn't dictate rotations, it simply let's you check if you or others are performing them up to standard and assists in the creation of them by providing feedback.

Plenty of skills reduce DPS due to cast times or aftercasts. It's not just not pressing 1. Additionally a lot of DPS builds utilize combos/burst windows, aka creating damage modifiers and then using as many of the highest damage skills available as possible in them.If you don't know the rotation, there is plenty you can do wrong.

The builds and rotations that are on those sites are there because they are the highest DPS achievable to current knowledge.If you came up with something higher, feel free to let the rest of us know.

Bringing Banners is a DPS sacrifice Warriors make to increase Squad DPS, which is all that matters.So yes, not taking Banners should not only result in "still" high personal DPS, but higher.Personal DPS isn't strictly what you take a Banner Warrior for though.

Again, not sure what the point is you are trying to make.

k.

assuming that you bring the Strength and Discipline banners

4 attributes gets to +100..

ok

compare that to berserker stance, which when used will make your adren full (try to know if how many times) and balanced stance (coz if you got CCed by the boss equals no damage). and traits that lengthen the stances (so more fast adrenaline recharge). Berserker Stance will make any conditions on you useless too. (Blind, Weakness, anything that can kitten or prevent damage)

now go to the weapons = reduced recharge means weapon skill is almost being used everytime, yes? make your main weapons (GS/whatever) have reduced recharge

and tactics - 3 - 3 -3

and since your weapon is GS and you slotted the GS cooldown reduction, you have access to Might Makes Right?

Right?

so now compare Berserker Stance + Balanced Stance (on a stance duration increase) versus Str and Disc Banners

and yeah, if the boss is condi heavy inflicting damage gimping/prevention, +400 on the attributes, even when it's shared, is almost incomparable/useless coz your constant uninterrupted damage became 0 with the Bosses condis..

You genuinely have no idea what the role of the Banner Warrior is.

4000 Squad wide Attributes with Banners + 500 from EA, in part needed to crit cap all your DPS's, as well as the CC from Mace/Mace is the main reason to bring pBS to Raids.

If you get constantly CC'ed or are afflicted with Weakness for a substantial amount of time, I a) am not sure what boss that is supposed to be and b) your supports suck.

In terms of Squad DPS and Utility, yes, your suggested build pales in comparison.Making a build that has higher personal DPS as a Banner Warrior is a no brainer, since Banner Warrior isn't strictly a DPS...

k.

you're talking about raids.

im talking about fractals/dungeons.

big difference.

and pugging/joining on the fly in raids is fake news. raid guilds sell them.

and if raid guilds say you must bring banner, you have no choice..

while banner on 5 people is almost negligible.. if all of you have skills that do not gimp your damage, IN ANY WAY...

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:I've said this many times, as have others; either ban dps meters or remove raids altogether. Since we know raids aren't going anywhere, next logical step is to ban dps meters, but moreso be lightning quick to enforce it.

If Anet simply just.. deleted someone's account on the very first infraction of criticizing someone else, the problem would fix itself over night. Hell, even make a video of the screenshotted comment, the taking control of the person's account, and deleting all their characters, then post it on the forums as an example. Yes, the problem would fix itself overnight.

So you want a more restrictive and toxic community and also piss off a good amount of players and then kill the game.... Nice.

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@zionophir.6845 said:

k.you're talking about raids.im talking about fractals/dungeons.big difference.and pugging/joining on the fly in raids is fake news. raid guilds sell them.and if raid guilds say you must bring banner, you have no choice..while banner on 5 people is almost negligible.. if all of you have skills that do not kitten your damage, IN ANY WAY...

It also matters for fractals, see the reply of Cyninja. In dungeons you won't even bring a warrior nowadays if you attempt to fast clear it if I'm not mistaken. And for pug dungeons it doesn't matter what you play anyways because unless it's not a very restricted lfg groups often are inexperienced how to run the dungeon the fastest or in an efficient way. It is not needed because the power creep is so big you can just go trial and error and most likely succeed.The thing is most GW2 players don't even know how fast you can be if you min/max to the end. Take a look at Arah, some groups are in there for an hour or endlessly wipe at Lupi even today while good groups breeze through within a couple of minutes.Anyways if you join a group that asks for a banner slave then bring the banners. They are looking for this specific build. There are enough others you can join and both sides will be happy.

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Argument about doing mechanics and having low dps is just pure garbage. For example, you can do greens on dhuum as bs and get 10k++ final dps while most of bs players are like 6k. And then they say 'oh wait, I was doing greens'. No, they are just weak players. If you join as dps, you do dps, you can be top dps even of you press f a few times, because, guess what, those dead players also lose dps. Ofc, if you do cannons on Sab, you cant beat top dps, but I've never seen a call out cuz of this. So general tip is to get good.

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@zionophir.6845 said:

@neven.3785 said:In the past it was possible with one of the common DPS meters used. Also range check that told.you how many enemies are nearby. I left a guild I was a long time member of because they started interrogating members over specific slotted gear pieces or a minor trait choice. I wasn't the target but I'm of firm opinion that it was not how to run a guild especially since it violated terms of service. Other ways to git gud without such tools.

There is a reason those tools where banned and Arc was not. Not sure how that's relevant now.

@zionophir.6845 said:so does arcdps dictate your "Rotation"?

of course you don't just 1111111 the Violet Boss Right? assuming that you've played a single class for how many, 7 years, you don't just 111111 right? there are 9 other skills, right?

and you can even not copy a build using a website and discover by yourselves that there are higher damage build customizations other than the meta builds in the website..

i can just bring a warrior without banners and still damage is still high... its called "traits for weapon/skill cooldown reduction.."

right?

I'm not quite sure what your point here is.Arc doesn't dictate rotations, it simply let's you check if you or others are performing them up to standard and assists in the creation of them by providing feedback.

Plenty of skills reduce DPS due to cast times or aftercasts. It's not just not pressing 1. Additionally a lot of DPS builds utilize combos/burst windows, aka creating damage modifiers and then using as many of the highest damage skills available as possible in them.If you don't know the rotation, there is plenty you can do wrong.

The builds and rotations that are on those sites are there because they are the highest DPS achievable to current knowledge.If you came up with something higher, feel free to let the rest of us know.

Bringing Banners is a DPS sacrifice Warriors make to increase Squad DPS, which is all that matters.So yes, not taking Banners should not only result in "still" high personal DPS, but higher.Personal DPS isn't strictly what you take a Banner Warrior for though.

Again, not sure what the point is you are trying to make.

k.

assuming that you bring the Strength and Discipline banners

4 attributes gets to +100..

ok

compare that to berserker stance, which when used will make your adren full (try to know if how many times) and balanced stance (coz if you got CCed by the boss equals no damage). and traits that lengthen the stances (so more fast adrenaline recharge). Berserker Stance will make any conditions on you useless too. (Blind, Weakness, anything that can kitten or prevent damage)

now go to the weapons = reduced recharge means weapon skill is almost being used everytime, yes? make your main weapons (GS/whatever) have reduced recharge

and tactics - 3 - 3 -3

and since your weapon is GS and you slotted the GS cooldown reduction, you have access to Might Makes Right?

Right?

so now compare Berserker Stance + Balanced Stance (on a stance duration increase) versus Str and Disc Banners

and yeah, if the boss is condi heavy inflicting damage gimping/prevention, +400 on the attributes, even when it's shared, is almost incomparable/useless coz your constant uninterrupted damage became 0 with the Bosses condis..

You genuinely have no idea what the role of the Banner Warrior is.

4000 Squad wide Attributes with Banners + 500 from EA, in part needed to crit cap all your DPS's, as well as the CC from Mace/Mace is the main reason to bring pBS to Raids.

If you get constantly CC'ed or are afflicted with Weakness for a substantial amount of time, I a) am not sure what boss that is supposed to be and b) your supports suck.

In terms of Squad DPS and Utility, yes, your suggested build pales in comparison.Making a build that has higher personal DPS as a Banner Warrior is a no brainer, since Banner Warrior isn't strictly a DPS...

k.

you're talking about raids.

im talking about fractals/dungeons.

big difference.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.In Fractals your group even more so relies on you as Warrior to play Mace/Mace as primary CC together with the Renegade, with Axe/Axe being superior for DPS.You won't use that GS unless you know there won't be any Breakbars in the upcoming encounters.For Stab and condi cleanse, again, run a supFB. Together with the Rev being able to swap to Jalis, you will have more Stab than you'll ever need, freeing you to take Banners, which still are a valuable stat increase in 5 man content.

@zionophir.6845 said:and pugging/joining on the fly in raids is fake news. raid guilds sell them.

The fact that there are some raid sellers doesn't mean people aren't pugging Raids, what's your point?

@zionophir.6845 said:and if raid guilds say you must bring banner, you have no choice..

while banner on 5 people is almost negligible.. if all of you have skills that do not kitten your damage, IN ANY WAY...

It's less negligible than everything else you could bring.If you are neither bringing Banners nor Mace/Mace, then there is little reason to bring a pWarrior.

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@"Mordayn.6198" said:I've seen particular players, not naming names, not even playing dps but at the end of an engagement will call out people for DPS that's not even that low at the end of a fight and in some cases even kick based on that. These players don't take into account dps lost doing mechanics, dps lost reviving people etc. They just look at the overall dps readout at the end of the fight and use numbers to chastise other players.

Hi OP, certainly no one should verbally harass anyone in this game, dps meter or not. I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware that actually arcdps records a staggering amount of information. You can watch a video I made to help my guild progress on qadim 1.0 back when we were learning it. You will see that I am able to see position, whos dodged big attacks, what skills people used, total damage taken, boon uptime, and so much more.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@"Mordayn.6198" said:I've seen particular players, not naming names, not even playing dps but at the end of an engagement will call out people for DPS that's not even that low at the end of a fight and in some cases even kick based on that. These players don't take into account dps lost doing mechanics, dps lost reviving people etc. They just look at the overall dps readout at the end of the fight and use numbers to chastise other players.

Hi OP, certainly no one should verbally harass anyone in this game, dps meter or not. I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware that actually arcdps records a staggering amount of information. You can watch a video I made to help my guild progress on qadim 1.0 back when we were learning it. You will see that I am able to see position, whos dodged big attacks, what skills people used, total damage taken, boon uptime, and so much more.

I like it. Nice approach of helping people understand how the fight went.

It's a shame so few people actually care about looking past the first page on the damage logs. Most often boon uptime, missed mechanics, damage taken, rotation, cleanses, etc. (and even reviewing the entire fight) are way more interesting and useful in understanding what transpired and what needs improvement (and also way more important in locating which players might have issues, why and potentionally how to help them/the raid or the composition).

Dps is almost always the least important stat since for experienced groups it's all about who did best and for inexperienced groups, as mentioned, the other factors dealing with mechanics and support are way more important.

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@Asum.4960 said:

@neven.3785 said:In the past it was possible with one of the common DPS meters used. Also range check that told.you how many enemies are nearby. I left a guild I was a long time member of because they started interrogating members over specific slotted gear pieces or a minor trait choice. I wasn't the target but I'm of firm opinion that it was not how to run a guild especially since it violated terms of service. Other ways to git gud without such tools.

There is a reason those tools where banned and Arc was not. Not sure how that's relevant now.

@zionophir.6845 said:so does arcdps dictate your "Rotation"?

of course you don't just 1111111 the Violet Boss Right? assuming that you've played a single class for how many, 7 years, you don't just 111111 right? there are 9 other skills, right?

and you can even not copy a build using a website and discover by yourselves that there are higher damage build customizations other than the meta builds in the website..

i can just bring a warrior without banners and still damage is still high... its called "traits for weapon/skill cooldown reduction.."

right?

I'm not quite sure what your point here is.Arc doesn't dictate rotations, it simply let's you check if you or others are performing them up to standard and assists in the creation of them by providing feedback.

Plenty of skills reduce DPS due to cast times or aftercasts. It's not just not pressing 1. Additionally a lot of DPS builds utilize combos/burst windows, aka creating damage modifiers and then using as many of the highest damage skills available as possible in them.If you don't know the rotation, there is plenty you can do wrong.

The builds and rotations that are on those sites are there because they are the highest DPS achievable to current knowledge.If you came up with something higher, feel free to let the rest of us know.

Bringing Banners is a DPS sacrifice Warriors make to increase Squad DPS, which is all that matters.So yes, not taking Banners should not only result in "still" high personal DPS, but higher.Personal DPS isn't strictly what you take a Banner Warrior for though.

Again, not sure what the point is you are trying to make.

k.

assuming that you bring the Strength and Discipline banners

4 attributes gets to +100..

ok

compare that to berserker stance, which when used will make your adren full (try to know if how many times) and balanced stance (coz if you got CCed by the boss equals no damage). and traits that lengthen the stances (so more fast adrenaline recharge). Berserker Stance will make any conditions on you useless too. (Blind, Weakness, anything that can kitten or prevent damage)

now go to the weapons = reduced recharge means weapon skill is almost being used everytime, yes? make your main weapons (GS/whatever) have reduced recharge

and tactics - 3 - 3 -3

and since your weapon is GS and you slotted the GS cooldown reduction, you have access to Might Makes Right?

Right?

so now compare Berserker Stance + Balanced Stance (on a stance duration increase) versus Str and Disc Banners

and yeah, if the boss is condi heavy inflicting damage gimping/prevention, +400 on the attributes, even when it's shared, is almost incomparable/useless coz your constant uninterrupted damage became 0 with the Bosses condis..

You genuinely have no idea what the role of the Banner Warrior is.

4000 Squad wide Attributes with Banners + 500 from EA, in part needed to crit cap all your DPS's, as well as the CC from Mace/Mace is the main reason to bring pBS to Raids.

If you get constantly CC'ed or are afflicted with Weakness for a substantial amount of time, I a) am not sure what boss that is supposed to be and b) your supports suck.

In terms of Squad DPS and Utility, yes, your suggested build pales in comparison.Making a build that has higher personal DPS as a Banner Warrior is a no brainer, since Banner Warrior isn't strictly a DPS...

k.

you're talking about raids.

im talking about fractals/dungeons.

big difference.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.In Fractals your group even more so relies on you as Warrior to play Mace/Mace as primary CC together with the Renegade, with Axe/Axe being superior for DPS.You won't use that GS unless you know there won't be any Breakbars in the upcoming encounters.For Stab and condi cleanse, again, run a supFB. Together with the Rev being able to swap to Jalis, you will have more Stab than you'll ever need, freeing you to take Banners, which still are a valuable stat increase in 5 man content.

@zionophir.6845 said:and pugging/joining on the fly in raids is fake news. raid guilds sell them.

The fact that there are some raid sellers doesn't mean people aren't pugging Raids, what's your point?

@zionophir.6845 said:and if raid guilds say you must bring banner, you have no choice..

while banner on 5 people is almost negligible.. if all of you have skills that do not kitten your damage, IN ANY WAY...

It's less negligible than everything else you could bring.If you are neither bringing Banners nor Mace/Mace, then there is little reason to bring a pWarrior.

the max damage that i inflict to a Gold Champion boss with GS skill 2 alone, with all the skill boosters (no item booster) like might and vulnerability maxed is 30,000++

so you now know why i am advocating traiting Weapon Cooldown Reduction..

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