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About the new EU World Links (6/27/2019)


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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Not EU but how dumb can you be with starting yb/sor in t2 when they spent the entirety of last relink together in t4. Like obviously hours aren't enough. Try idk using your effing brain when deciding tiers instead of creating massacres. The early release of the NA matchups allowed players to transfer prior to relinking which was a dumb move as well as is transfers in general but yeah gotta feel bad for t2 cause 2.4 k/d should happen.

Matchmaking reverts to the old randomized glicko ranking on relinks. It takes the current glicko rating then adds or subtracts a random number within a certain range of the rating to decide tiers. Since SF and BP are now host servers with previously frozen glicko scores that are way lower than other servers, there was a very low probability that YB would have rolled a T4 match.

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@Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:

@"Tuchanka.5148" said:they've fighted and learnt to hate for years

I want to reply to this specific line: there is no place for hate in Guild Wars 2. Hateful behavior should be reported and we regularly take actions about hate speech. If you see any within the game (or on the forums for that matter!), please follow these instructions:
  1. Right click on the player's character
  2. Click on the small portrait of the player near the top and center of your screen
  3. Select "Report"
  4. On the Player Conduct Report panel choose a reason for your report from the drop-down menu

Hmmm, you know this is a game? And if we want to hate the enemy server then gamewise we are allowed toThere is a difference between game hate and real life hate ...I have done hatefull things in this game e.g. pew pew'd an afk enemy (I justify it by saying he chose poorly) - we had a whispered chat about it, I had to explain I am hopeless player and can only kill stationary objects, offered him sweeties not to revenge kill me)Think you got wrong end of stick with Tuchanka's post, Steph

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This topic is getting away from the original subject, which is the removal of the language limitations in linking. This change seems to have been a success. Unfortunately it has highlighted yet again the problems in the population modelling (... which invoke the emotional arguments we are seeing).

An example that shows how both unlinked-Piken and unlinked-Kodash are the lowest EU populations at 14th and 15th. The modelling done by this website is probably not so complex, and probably also not the final picture, but (perhaps superficially) seems to be a more accurate representation than hours played. The numbers may be affected by people on those servers feeling unmotivated to play, to some degree, but the spread of population shows that GH + Riverside (18147) is three times the population of Kodash (6152) during EU timezones so far since Friday reset. How "EU Timezones" is determined is unclear.

So how do we fix this? (Or "how do we convince Anet to fix this" might be a better way to say it). I would ask the devs to consider:

  • "Hours played at tier 6 participation" instead of "hours played" in WvW might be a better metric. People who maintain T6 are karma training, flipping objectives, pip-farming, zerging, GvGing, escorting dolyaks and small-scale roaming. In other words, not sitting in keeps, running around pulling tactivators, trolling team chat with long, hate-conversations, or otherwise "taking up space" (Pip-farming might also fall into this, but you can probably not filter it out. I suspect the population of dedicated pip-farmers is rather low, and that people generally do this for short periods of time during low activity periods).
  • Some weighted function of hours played that weights T6 higher than other tiers. There are 7 tiers (zero through 6). Zero can be ignored in the weighting. 1, 2, and 3 could all be weighted very low, because one gets no pips in these tiers; or perhaps a maximum of 20% for all 3 tiers combined). Tiers 4 and 5 could each be weighted something like 25% or less, and T6 could be weighted 50% or more.
  • Do you have a PhD mathematician or a person with experience in population modelling? Are you willing to hire one? Considering the complexity of the game population, and the play styles of the WvW sub-population, some very complex modelling is probably needed to find a better metric.
  • Maybe open a dialog with the community on the subject of population modelling in the game.

Bit of a long post (again). I hope these suggestions are considered worthwhile.TLDR: Removal of language restrictions = successful change, but it highlights the population modelling problem.

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YB and SOR still linked and placed in T2. WHY WHY WHY! We have been in T4 for the last 3 months and now we are in T2. How exactly does that happen? I really dont care about your WvW event at this point while YB/SOR get zerg slaughter by T1/T2 servers. Thanks Anet. Thanks.

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@"Adzekul.3104" said:This topic is getting away from the original subject, which is the removal of the language limitations in linking. This change seems to have been a success. Unfortunately it has highlighted yet again the problems in the population modelling (... which invoke the emotional arguments we are seeing).

An example that shows how both unlinked-Piken and unlinked-Kodash are the lowest EU populations at 14th and 15th. The modelling done by this website is probably not so complex, and probably also not the final picture, but (perhaps superficially) seems to be a more accurate representation than hours played. The numbers may be affected by people on those servers feeling unmotivated to play, to some degree, but the spread of population shows that GH + Riverside (18147) is three times the population of Kodash (6152) during EU timezones so far since Friday reset. How "EU Timezones" is determined is unclear.

So how do we fix this? (Or "how do we convince Anet to fix this" might be a better way to say it). I would ask the devs to consider:

  • "Hours played at tier 6 participation" instead of "hours played" in WvW might be a better metric. People who maintain T6 are karma training, flipping objectives, pip-farming, zerging, GvGing, escorting dolyaks and small-scale roaming. In other words, not sitting in keeps, running around pulling tactivators, trolling team chat with long, hate-conversations, or otherwise "taking up space" (Pip-farming might also fall into this, but you can probably not filter it out. I suspect the population of dedicated pip-farmers is rather low, and that people generally do this for short periods of time during low activity periods).
  • Some weighted function of hours played that weights T6 higher than other tiers. There are 7 tiers (zero through 6). Zero can be ignored in the weighting. 1, 2, and 3 could all be weighted very low, because one gets no pips in these tiers; or perhaps a maximum of 20% for all 3 tiers combined). Tiers 4 and 5 could each be weighted something like 25% or less, and T6 could be weighted 50% or more.
  • Do you have a PhD mathematician or a person with experience in population modelling? Are you willing to hire one? Considering the complexity of the game population, and the play styles of the WvW sub-population, some very complex modelling is probably needed to find a better metric.
  • Maybe open a dialog with the community on the subject of population modelling in the game.

Bit of a long post (again). I hope these suggestions are considered worthwhile.TLDR: Removal of language restrictions = successful change, but it highlights the population modelling problem.

I thought this thread was about World Relinks.Edit: were you looking for https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79608/removing-language-restrictions-for-eu-world-linking#latest

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Piken not being linked have made it so I can't play with my guild mates for the next two months. I been checking if Piken is open for transfer 2-3 times every day the past 6-7 months. No idea why Piken is "full" since the only time I have seen ques on all borders is when then wvw mount came out, and that lasted only a week. Resets and during the week there is very seldom ques on more then one border.

I am humbly asking the devs to open up Piken for transfers so me (and the rest of my guildies stuck on linked servers) can transfer to Piken.Two months not being able to play with our Guild mates is too long, way too long.

Thank you in advance

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Now we have 12 servers linking with any of the 15 main servers. That means that every relink there will be 3 servers without a link.

So either abolish 5th tier and have 15 servers link to 12 main servers, or merge servers so there will be 12 main and 12 linked servers, ensuring with either option that a server will have a link.

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@"Malfrador.3615" said:I get why Piken has no Link, but Kodash? Hard stuck in the last tier since weeks, no queueduring the whole week and only one map queue on reset. Feels like there is something still wrong with your numbers as well as the "Full" status.

Well, iam quite sure they have noticed the "forced" reopening due to striking a while back and are now manually setting the server on full even if it is clearly not full.Guess it's time for Kodash to die now, summer is up so there will be less players anyway and i bet you many players + whole guilds will leave the server.

Does anybody remember when Linkings were a "test"? They have become an imbalance piece of garbage long ago and Anet does not care about that mode anymore. Alliance System? lul, it will never come.

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@"Rotchi.1630" said:Piken not being linked have made it so I can't play with my guild mates for the next two months. I been checking if Piken is open for transfer 2-3 times every day the past 6-7 months. No idea why Piken is "full" since the only time I have seen ques on all borders is when then wvw mount came out, and that lasted only a week. Resets and during the week there is very seldom ques on more then one border.

I am humbly asking the devs to open up Piken for transfers so me (and the rest of my guildies stuck on linked servers) can transfer to Piken.Two months not being able to play with our Guild mates is too long, way too long.

Thank you in advance

Cant they transfer?

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Can anyone from ArenaNet explain the YB/SoR situation? We spent the entire last relink paired together with glaring and obvious coverage gaps (just look at our timezone rankings) and we spent most of the 8 weeks battling between 2nd and 3rd place with Dragonbrand in Tier 4. All of this equates into us being a Tier 2 server now? I just don't get it. Are you trying to make everyone on those servers quit? Activity has plummeted over the weekend. The mood in all the community Discords is awful. I just don't understand the logic. Could an explanation be given into how that happens?

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The most recent server relinks were a success from my point of view. Thanks ANet!The amount of whining in this thread is remarkable, especially from players on Piken Sq or from servers who used to be linked to Piken Sq for quite a long time. Do players need a reminder there is no guarantee to stay linked forever or that your server is linked to another at all? Other servers learned that lesson long ago. My server was fending for itself alone in WvW all those years except for three short linkings à 2 months. Welcome to the club.^^Furthermore, players who think the grass is always greener on the other side just prove they haven't grown up yet. Since early access start almost 7yrs ago, I stayed on the server chosen in 2012 regardless of the tidal changes in WvW. Bandwagoning is a thing for weak minds and server hopping certainly doesn't generate any sympathy for the gems spent. If you can't stand being on the potentially weaker side don't play open PvP (WvW). The devs cannot guarantee it to be fair at all times. They do their best to even the odds but that's about it. You could learn to enjoy the perks of being outnumbered. I have grown used to it and if the new system of server links regardless of language restrictions will make that a thing of the past, I will adapt to it too. Sharing the same side with players who speak French was already refreshing and fun. It's a game - make the best of it and enjoy yourself.

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@"Percy.2954" said:The most recent server relinks were a success from my point of view. Thanks ANet!The amount of whining in this thread is remarkable, especially from players on Piken Sq or from servers who used to be linked to Piken Sq for quite a long time. Do players need a reminder there is no guarantee to stay linked forever or that your server is linked to another at all? Other servers learned that lesson long ago. My server was fending for itself alone in WvW all those years except for three short linkings à 2 months. Welcome to the club.^^Furthermore, players who think the grass is always greener on the other side just prove they haven't grown up yet. Since early access start almost 7yrs ago, I stayed on the server chosen in 2012 regardless of the tidal changes in WvW. Bandwagoning is a thing for weak minds and server hopping certainly doesn't generate any sympathy for the gems spent. If you can't stand being on the potentially weaker side don't play open PvP (WvW). The devs cannot guarantee it to be fair at all times. They do their best to even the odds but that's about it. You could learn to enjoy the perks of being outnumbered. I have grown used to it and if the new system of server links regardless of language restrictions will make that a thing of the past, I will adapt to it too. Sharing the same side with players who speak French was already refreshing and fun. It's a game - make the best of it and enjoy yourself.

First off, climb down from your high horse, people have a genuine right to comment on the "fairness or unfairness" of their match ups, and your opinion is no more valid than theirs! As far as Anet doing their best, you cannot tell me that some of these match ups are so lopsided a blind person could see it! We sit at 10th on TC and we are paired with 24th then matched up against FB at 5th paired up with JQ at 15th. Now as far as time zone coverage we rank on average 12th on TC and put in against FB who ranks 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 2nd. Does this seem to make any sense to you? So don't tell me they are doing their best because frankly their if that's the case there won't be much of a WvW left for many servers soon enough!

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@"DanCjr.2406" said:Can anyone from ArenaNet explain the YB/SoR situation? We spent the entire last relink paired together with glaring and obvious coverage gaps (just look at our timezone rankings) and we spent most of the 8 weeks battling between 2nd and 3rd place with Dragonbrand in Tier 4. All of this equates into us being a Tier 2 server now? I just don't get it. Are you trying to make everyone on those servers quit? Activity has plummeted over the weekend. The mood in all the community Discords is awful. I just don't understand the logic. Could an explanation be given into how that happens?

Sorrow's Furnace, Borlis Pass, and Maguuma all had lower glicko score than YB. Matchmaking on relinks is done by glicko.

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@"Percy.2954" said:The most recent server relinks were a success from my point of view. Thanks ANet!The amount of whining in this thread is remarkable, especially from players on Piken Sq or from servers who used to be linked to Piken Sq for quite a long time. Do players need a reminder there is no guarantee to stay linked forever or that your server is linked to another at all? Other servers learned that lesson long ago. My server was fending for itself alone in WvW all those years except for three short linkings à 2 months. Welcome to the club.^^Furthermore, players who think the grass is always greener on the other side just prove they haven't grown up yet. Since early access start almost 7yrs ago, I stayed on the server chosen in 2012 regardless of the tidal changes in WvW. Bandwagoning is a thing for weak minds and server hopping certainly doesn't generate any sympathy for the gems spent. If you can't stand being on the potentially weaker side don't play open PvP (WvW). The devs cannot guarantee it to be fair at all times. They do their best to even the odds but that's about it. You could learn to enjoy the perks of being outnumbered. I have grown used to it and if the new system of server links regardless of language restrictions will make that a thing of the past, I will adapt to it too. Sharing the same side with players who speak French was already refreshing and fun. It's a game - make the best of it and enjoy yourself.

This is a good copy pasta for a certain popular streamer. Feel like a troll post reading it but if you serious, maybe your comment was posted in the wrong part of the forum because a lot of the stuff you vaguely quoting seem completely detached from the conversation that is actually going on and the things you said has helped NO ONE......You honestly sound more frustrated than anyone else. Great you stayed on one server since 2012, great that you grown up, good job you never "bandwagoned" and for having a strong mind but all of that said has literally added NOTHING to the conversation, nothing of use. Its like you miss the point completely what many people from Piken have been saying and made some rubbish up on the spot. Instead give a solution to the other peoples problem that might add some worth to the conversation.

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@"DanCjr.2406" said:Can anyone from ArenaNet explain the YB/SoR situation? We spent the entire last relink paired together with glaring and obvious coverage gaps
and we spent most of the 8 weeks battling between 2nd and 3rd place with Dragonbrand in Tier 4. All of this equates into us being a Tier 2 server now? I just don't get it. Are you trying to make everyone on those servers quit? Activity has plummeted over the weekend. The mood in all the community Discords is awful. I just don't understand the logic. Could an explanation be given into how that happens?

Sorrow's Furnace, Borlis Pass, and Maguuma all had lower glicko score than YB. Matchmaking on relinks is done by glicko.

Thats t4. Did the 3 servers in t3 have lower too?

The glicko matchmaking system did in fact give a lower score to those too. How do you think rank 4 FA ended up as blue in T1 (rank 2) after it was just in T3?

I wish the wiki explained how the glicko matchmaking system works since it still gets used. Every server gets a random number added or subtracted to the glicko score in order to create match variations. The glicko scores of BP, SF, and Mag were just low enough as to create almost zero possibility of them not being in T4 while the scores of T2 and T3 servers are close enough (within 100 points) to have higher probabilities of being shuffled.

At least the good news is YB will drop to the tier it fits in best faster under 1u1d than with glicko matchmaking. We will probably see SF or BP dominate T3 next week if they really got stacked.

This old website would calculate the chances of certain matchups occurring under the old matchmaking system http://wvwmatchups.azurewebsites.net

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@"DanCjr.2406" said:Can anyone from ArenaNet explain the YB/SoR situation? We spent the entire last relink paired together with glaring and obvious coverage gaps
and we spent most of the 8 weeks battling between 2nd and 3rd place with Dragonbrand in Tier 4. All of this equates into us being a Tier 2 server now? I just don't get it. Are you trying to make everyone on those servers quit? Activity has plummeted over the weekend. The mood in all the community Discords is awful. I just don't understand the logic. Could an explanation be given into how that happens?

Sorrow's Furnace, Borlis Pass, and Maguuma all had lower glicko score than YB. Matchmaking on relinks is done by glicko.

Thats t4. Did the 3 servers in t3 have lower too?

Match-Making before looser-down/winner-up (and still used after relinks) was Glicko plus minus a randonnumber (if I remember right 0.4 * deviation, which is around 120). And the Glicko numbers are so close together (due to the 3-4-5 pts per skirmish), that the random number dominates, the matchmaking. So you are in a higher tear as you rolled a higher number than the others. That's it.

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I read some nice ideas but my fear is that Anet doesn't care about WvWvW. It's not like they ever listened to the community of players. With the making of the Desert Borderlands they got a lot of input and they did their own thing and ignored the players. I honestly don't think it will be different this time. I would like to thank the players who made an effort and put their thoughts about WvWvW in these forums. Maybe one day Anet will listen to the WvWvW player community.

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@aspirine.6852 said:

@"Malfrador.3615" said:I get why Piken has no Link, but Kodash? Hard stuck in the last tier since weeks, no queueduring the whole week and only one map queue on reset. Feels like there is something still wrong with your numbers as well as the "Full" status.

I dont understand it either, how can Kodash be full and still can only have one map filled with people, and sometimes not even that. How are these Full/High calculations done?

i think its because Kodash and Piken can have one map full on their own that they are not linked. for perspective even linked servers can barely have a map full at reset. so just one server having a map full without any linking is impressive to me.

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@FORTIFIED.8106 said:

@"Malfrador.3615" said:I get why Piken has no Link, but Kodash? Hard stuck in the last tier since weeks, no queueduring the whole week and only one map queue on reset. Feels like there is something still wrong with your numbers as well as the "Full" status.

I dont understand it either, how can Kodash be full and still can only have one map filled with people, and sometimes not even that. How are these Full/High calculations done?

i think its because Kodash and Piken can have one map full on their own that they are not linked. for perspective even linked servers can barely have a map full at reset. so just one server having a map full without any linking is impressive to me.

Except Kodash can't really anymore...

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@FORTIFIED.8106 said:

@"Malfrador.3615" said:I get why Piken has no Link, but Kodash? Hard stuck in the last tier since weeks, no queueduring the whole week and only one map queue on reset. Feels like there is something still wrong with your numbers as well as the "Full" status.

I dont understand it either, how can Kodash be full and still can only have one map filled with people, and sometimes not even that. How are these Full/High calculations done?

i think its because Kodash and Piken can have one map full on their own that they are not linked. for perspective even linked servers can barely have a map full at reset. so just one server having a map full without any linking is impressive to me.

That is the problem your impressed by it, its not impressive at all, its sad. If you been playing the wvw as your main game mode or only game mode for many years and seen how alive wvw was and now how dead wvw has become, man its just sad.

Merge the servers, remove tier 5 like some have suggested. Make is so you have less servers with all links. This is not gw2 wvw the first 2-3 years anymore Anet. Anet listen for once to the people who made your game a success, the wvw community, the ones still left that are trying to keep the game mode alive. WvW is the game mode that people originally flocked to and created huge communities on because you offered something different compared to other mmo's at the time, wvw and a amazing combat system for a mmo style game. Its the reason why so much of the community has left, you neglected wvw, the game mode that made your game stand out from the others.

If you saying that link servers are doing worst compared to non linked servers, we have a problem.

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@"Chaba.5410" said: Sorrow's Furnace, Borlis Pass, and Maguuma all had lower glicko score than YB. Matchmaking on relinks is done by glicko.

I know rematching is done by glicko, my question was more of a "explain to me how your glicko calculations actually came up with this disaster of a situation."

@Dayra.7405 said: And the Glicko numbers are so close together (due to the 3-4-5 pts per skirmish), that the random number dominates, the matchmaking. So you are in a higher tear as you rolled a higher number than the others. That's it.

This is a major problem if a 'random' number can shoot a server so far out of whack from where it should realistically be. I understand the new bandwagons are always in tier 4 at the start of a new match but putting the old tier 4 servers into tier 2 makes no sense. It's Monday morning and we're already losing by 50 points. What do you think this does to a server? No one's logging in, when they do they're getting spawned camped for an entire day. Saddest part of that was FC had to resort to mortars and trebs when they started to get actual push back despite their spawn campers still having almost double the numbers. Oh, and I'm not crying about it, I'm just saying it's pretty sad a 'good' server can't win outnumbered fights without siege. Definitely something to brag about to the other top tier servers right FC?

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Seriously, is the loot dropping from a higher kill ratio really that much better to justify server jumping bandwagons?

Don’t these players realize that playing PvP or even PvE content awards way more gold than WvW ?

I just never understood the players that frequently jump servers. In fact, I love playing outnumbered as it extremely fun to win 1vs2 against your typical WvW players.

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