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Disable switching toons before match starts


YtseJam.9784

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@rwolf.9571 said:Community helped killed their own game mode.

Idk about that. It's more like a teensy percentage of the community.

Tinfoil hats on, third eyes open. I got a question for you. If that small percentage of that community is willing to manipulate the game mode to death, would it really be beyond them to rig a poll that benefits them in doing it?

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"EnderzShadow.2506" said:The pvp matchmaker
does not use it.

Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

"There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one."

Aw^ This right?

Then it just leaves me with more questions.We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

Or two scourges on one teamand two necros on the other.Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

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@"YtseJam.9784" said:I feel it is really unfair that people are allowed to switch toons at the beginning of the match before everyone hits "ready", bypassing the Matchmaking algorithm part of matching to keep the duplicate professions to a minimum. Every time someone switches classes, they switch from a crappy class to one of those "meta" OP classes/builds from metabattle, manipulating the matchmaking algorithm. I constantly end up fighting 2 engis, 2 scourges, 2 mirages, etc, because of the switching and it's nearly impossible to win matches when something like this is allowed.

The matchmaking system isn't for the classes or class matchups though, you're talking about matchmaking but that's for the account level matchmaking based on the "rating" (even though in this population it's heavily mixed). I could be wrong here though, and anyways, if people are doing this to "bypass" matchmaking algorithms in some way, I promise most are just using this ability to swap for class matchup situationals than abusing something. Most people just win trade to get ahead in ranked so it's more blatant than you think and even then that's such a small percentage that it's irrelevant anyway.

A solution would be character selection DURING the prep phase after matchmaking has occurred and people have "locked in" their characters similar to LoL , but this presents so many more problems outside of just the matchmaking and char selection (is the char even rdy for pvp with runes, amulet, etc).

It's actually encouraged to be able to swap , because usually people who swap are people who actually know the class matchups... It's not a luck game as someone has stated, and while it's RNG at this point given the population in terms of matchmaking, to be stuck being RNG'd into a counter comp on TOP OF a low population and being RNG queued against people who may be a massively higher division than you already?

No, swapping before the match starts is a good thing and I encourage it so people actually understand what classes best other classes. This isn't a game of just being RNG paired with somebody and deal with it, you need to know what you can kill and can't and adjust based on within the timer window before the match starts.

Either way, there has to be some way to adjust prior to a match... I'm sorry but that is only healthy for the PvP game prep phase as it currently as a whole and removing it puts you behind 2 RNG pigeonholes and greatly reduces the QoL especially as you get towards the top end of the divisions and you start playing better players more consistently.

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@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:The pvp matchmaker
does not use it.

Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

"There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned.
Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one
."

Aw^ This right?

Then it just leaves me with more questions.We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

Or two scourges on one teamand two necros on the other.Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:The pvp matchmaker
does not use it.

Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

"There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned.
Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one
."

Aw^ This right?

Then it just leaves me with more questions.We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

Or two scourges on one teamand two necros on the other.Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

Huh? As the map is being selected?

So your suggesting, that after they picked the map, and its spinning to pick which one, without even seeing what the enemy team is playing, they log out to switch characters.

1-It doesnt make sense to switch characters before you see what your up against.2-who has the time to log out in that short space of time?

Your scenario is highly unlikely for as many times as I've seen this happen.

Imo, it's more than likely, the matchmaker want one team to lose--gotta keep that 50 percent win/loss ratio.That's the only reason I can see why one team has stronger classes (meta POF classes) and one has Core classes.

If they wanted more balanced fights, you would see classes spread between the two teams much more equally.They must do it to some degree. I don't know if I've ever seen two firebrands on one team. And it's not because firebrand isn't a popular class.

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@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:The pvp matchmaker
does not use it.

Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

"There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned.
Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one
."

Aw^ This right?

Then it just leaves me with more questions.We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

Or two scourges on one teamand two necros on the other.Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

Huh? As the map is being selected?

So your suggesting, that after they picked the map, and its spinning to pick which one, without even seeing what the enemy team is playing, they log out to switch characters.

1-It doesnt make sense to switch characters before you see what your up against.2-who has the time to log out in that short space of time?

Your scenario is highly unlikely for as many times as I've seen this happen.

Imo, it's more than likely, the matchmaker want one team to lose--gotta keep that 50 percent win/loss ratio.That's the only reason I can see why one team has stronger classes (meta POF classes) and one has Core classes.

If they wanted more balanced fights, you would see classes spread between the two teams much more equally.They must do it to some degree. I don't know if I've ever seen two firebrands on one team. And it's not because firebrand isn't a popular class.

Like when I am setting up some rp scenes in pve world and I am queued, I see the map pop up and go to the char select to be on what I want.

I got decent internet and a decent computer so I make it in the match as if nothing happened.

an edit I almost exclusively play thief in pvp so I don't care who I fight.

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Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

"There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned.
Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one
."

Aw^ This right?

Then it just leaves me with more questions.We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

Or two scourges on one teamand two necros on the other.Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

Huh? As the map is being selected?

So your suggesting, that after they picked the map, and its spinning to pick which one, without even seeing what the enemy team is playing, they log out to switch characters.

1-It doesnt make sense to switch characters before you see what your up against.2-who has the time to log out in that short space of time?

Your scenario is highly unlikely for as many times as I've seen this happen.

Imo, it's more than likely, the matchmaker want one team to lose--gotta keep that 50 percent win/loss ratio.That's the only reason I can see why one team has stronger classes (meta POF classes) and one has Core classes.

If they wanted more balanced fights, you would see classes spread between the two teams much more equally.They must do it to some degree. I don't know if I've ever seen two firebrands on one team. And it's not because firebrand isn't a popular class.

Like when I am setting up some rp scenes in pve world and I am queued, I see the map pop up and go to the char select to be on what I want.

I got decent internet and a decent computer so I make it in the match as if nothing happened.

an edit
I almost exclusively play thief in pvp so I don't care who I fight.

I see what your saying. You are in the minority as far as pvp players go.Most I know, don't pve while they are waiting 2-3 mins for the next round.

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@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:The pvp matchmaker
does not use it.

Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

"There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned.
Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one
."

Aw^ This right?

Then it just leaves me with more questions.We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

Or two scourges on one teamand two necros on the other.Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

There's definitely an attempt to mirror team comps, but like you say; it's far from perfect. That's the gist of it.

The double scourge swap strat is a a perfect example. You queue double scourge to practically guarantee a reaper/scourge to the enemy team, and then you swap to one of the side-noders that absolutely pummel necro; especially when that necro is without a FB or part of FB + Necro pug. The lengths to which people will go to create an unfair advantage in this game are a bit ridiculous.

As to double SLB. Well that's just because some of the side-noders, SLB included; are really unbalanced. Ime, it's no more or less common to see two Holos, or two Heralds than it is two Soulbeasts. There's just more people playing these classes.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

Agreed. If you lock people to specific classes you can end up with far worse comps more likely. Like Double Thief. Or you queue on Support Firebrand but you end up paired with a Support Tempest. Double support isn't very good but you'd be locked into it.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 actually for fun can you tell us the win ratio of ranked teams with two thieves on them?

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I think the increased massive class imbalances has made this problem much worse than when the vote was taken. Having class specs that absolutely dominate a complete PvP aspect like cc, condition generation, obscene power damage, unkillable bunker etc. makes double that spec in a team almost unbearable. Especially if the opposing team comp randomly has no good counter to it.

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A lot of people have a lot of gripes with the state of PvP these days. While many gripes are L2P issues, there are just as many genuine complaints. Rather than be sulky and salty, why don't we as a community put together our Top 10 or Top 5 issues for Anet to run a poll? Keeping in mind the issue must be something you can vote yes/no.

If we can present Anet with a list of priority issues, we have more of a chance of them being addressed. As opposed to our current system of crying boo-hoo on a multitude of different threads.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:match maker cant tell the difference between a DH and FB which is why we sort of need it.

2 reapers face off against 2 scourges for example.

The thread is about switching professions at the beginning of the match - not about being hard locked into your specialisation or build.

I agree with the original poster, you must play with what you que with, but can change your build before the match starts

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

When and how did the community vote for this? I am pretty sure i wasnt included in this vote

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@ZhouX.8742 said:

@"YtseJam.9784" said:I feel it is really unfair that people are allowed to switch toons at the beginning of the match before everyone hits "ready", bypassing the Matchmaking algorithm part of matching to keep the duplicate professions to a minimum. Every time someone switches classes, they switch from a crappy class to one of those "meta" OP classes/builds from metabattle, manipulating the matchmaking algorithm. I constantly end up fighting 2 engis, 2 scourges, 2 mirages, etc, because of the switching and it's nearly impossible to win matches when something like this is allowed.

The matchmaking system isn't for the classes or class matchups though, you're talking about matchmaking but that's for the account level matchmaking based on the "rating" (even though in this population it's heavily mixed). I could be wrong here though, and anyways, if people are doing this to "bypass" matchmaking algorithms in some way, I promise most are just using this ability to swap for class matchup situationals than abusing something. Most people just win trade to get ahead in ranked so it's more blatant than you think and even then that's such a small percentage that it's irrelevant anyway.

A solution would be character selection DURING the prep phase after matchmaking has occurred and people have "locked in" their characters similar to LoL , but this presents so many more problems outside of just the matchmaking and char selection (is the char even rdy for pvp with runes, amulet, etc).

It's actually encouraged to be able to swap , because
usually
people who swap are people who actually know the class matchups... It's not a luck game as someone has stated, and while it's RNG at this point given the population in terms of matchmaking, to be stuck being RNG'd into a counter comp on TOP OF a low population and being RNG queued against people who may be a massively higher division than you already?

No, swapping before the match starts is a good thing and I encourage it so people actually understand what classes best other classes. This isn't a game of just being RNG paired with somebody and deal with it, you need to know what you can kill and can't and adjust based on within the timer window before the match starts.

Either way, there has to be some way to adjust prior to a match... I'm sorry but that is only healthy for the PvP game prep phase as it currently as a whole and removing it
puts you behind 2 RNG pigeonholes
and greatly reduces the QoL especially as you get towards the top end of the divisions and you start playing better players more consistently.

You could also make it one step easier: only let players que in ranked games with a meta profession (soul beast, spell breaker holo, rev, scourge and mirrage) that will take all the need for RNG out as well as not needing to character swop...

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@James.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:match maker cant tell the difference between a DH and FB which is why we sort of need it.

2 reapers face off against 2 scourges for example.

The thread is about switching professions at the beginning of the match - not about being hard locked into your specialisation or build.

I know.

You misread my comment quite badly to be honest.

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@James.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:match maker cant tell the difference between a DH and FB which is why we sort of need it.

2 reapers face off against 2 scourges for example.

The thread is about switching professions at the beginning of the match - not about being hard locked into your specialisation or build.

I agree with the original poster, you must play with what you que with, but can change your build before the match starts

I completely agree. You should try to move away from meta if you feel weak instead of jumping to another meta build. It will be a small droplet of variety.

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@James.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

When and how did the community vote for this? I am pretty sure i wasnt included in this vote

Season 5 or 6.

Shortly after the removal of team queue.

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Just remember kids, this is your pvp checklist

  1. Check the Class power rankings.
  2. Queue up as the weakest class or the class that your preferred class counters.
  3. Matchmaker will try to put one of those classes on other team
  4. Switch classes when map loads
  5. PROFIT.

Don't worry the community VOTED for it and ANET approved it.

And your "excuse" is always "i wanted to PVE on "insert class here" but pvp on "insert class here"

Oh and just for reference i personally voted for "No class switching" in the poll.

I personally only wvw now but always hope for pvp improvements.

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