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The Greatness That Could Be....


Adry.7512

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I know this thread will receive massive hate by people who have an extremist state of mind towards this.....but here goes nothing. GW2 has one of the best if not the BEST pve content in any mmorpg. I reallyyyyyy want you to think this through, it’s a big statement but think. When you take the story and PvP out of a game you think is better than GW2....then all you’re left is solely pve gameplay, and now tell me that it’s better than this one. Can you honestly make that statement? In my opinion it has no one to surpass it. Now....why is this game capped at only 13 million players? Because that’s the only epic thing about this game....the pve gameplay, that’s all it has to it’s greatness. The story is good, but not great. The story lacks clarity, the history and lore are STILLLLLL unknown after like 15 years....it’s like reading a veryyyyyyy slow paced book. Now the other big thing an mmorpg has is PvP. Pvp can’t even be stated as good, it’s terrible. The mechanics are amazing, the classes are amazing, but the PvP mode itself is abandoned, neglected, unaltered, with the same options since launch. Every mmorpg at the level of GW2 has dedicated SIGNIFICANT focus on PvP. Meaning they have team battles, 2v2, war politics and alliances, better structured 1v1 options. Now do these games continuously change their PvP? No, they don’t need to, it’s beefy, it’s rich in content. GW2 has the same game mode since launch and a dying, if not already dead, PvP community.

With this being said, I think that a strong shift in focus needs to be put into this game in those TWO factors, lore and PVP. It’s a risky thing to say for you all because the crowed that this game attracted are very pve casual players, but that’s why this game caps at only 13 million, the others are in other games. So I challenge Anet to take the risk and take some time to build on these two aspects. Then this game will def surpass 15 million.

Anet was once praised for being different and for being risk takers. But now I see a company that is scared to be different.

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@Emberfoot.6847 said:I doubt very much there are 13 million players. Accounts maybe, but some people like me have ten ?I do agree that more lore would be nice, but in all honesty Anet's strong point is NOT PvP. I'd def rather they focused on good story /lore/maps etc.

I agree, but PVP is the pillar that holds the playerbase. You can always burnout pve but good PvP is never burnt out because people are always a challenge. PVP is not their strong point because they let it die out, but a game with such great mechanics can always have epic PvP.

Additionally, the pve aspect of the company already has its assigned devs, timing, and format, something I don’t see in lore development nor PvP. If a few resource can be invested in lore and PvP, it would make a big difference.

Think about it, pve needs constant updates, PvP requires more maintenance than new stuff. All it takes is ONE good fix in PvP, and the rest is smooth sailing. As for lore, they need more back story and branches, which does take some resources, but lore is crucial.

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PvP become worse ever since PoF came out(Not that HoT didn't make it better)and the lack of attention from the devs contributes more to the awfulness of these gamemodes.The mount was the last straw for me on WvW and the balance is still a paradox for them so nothing is good atm.

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Thought i'd disagree with you but actually I don't.

Atm I have 3 major issues with Gw2 as a game.

Firstly Living world Season 1.. the fact that season 1 content still hasn't been remade and re-added to the game in some way to bridge the gaping hole in the story between the Personal Story and Season 2 irritates the hell out of me.I am absolutely 100% in favour of Anet prioratizing this even if it means delaying new content for the game.. I don't care if I have to wait another year for the next living world season or 2-3 years for the next expansion..I hate that Gw2 is an incomplete game and this hole missing due to season 1 has bothered me for years.

  1. Dungeon story instances are not balanced for solo player runs and their mail iontroductions break story continuity with the personal story.. small problem but it bugs the hell out of me.

  2. Major plot points based on completely broken Lich lore.What is a Lich in Gw2?How does a Lich work?Nobody can answer those questions because there have only been 2 major Lich's in the Guildwars story and their backstories specifically around the subject of Lichdom are a complete mystery and inconsistent.Khilbron and Joko both have seemingly different forms of Lich magic.. and ascended ring in Gw2 hints that Khilbron had a ring that housed his soul (the typical D&D phylatery concept) despite no recorded lore in either game suggesting he made one, while Joko on the other hand appears to be a Lich through some unknown magic because reasons..Fact that a huge story moment is based on that unknown lore left me very sour in the mouth and felt like a huge cop-out on the typically great story telling that Anet has been doing for years.

There are many areas in the lore that need fleshing out and questions answered and Lich's in Guildwars is one of the biggest areas in the lore that is just a massive blank wtf right now.

I agree with you that PvP also needs a lot of TLC, more modes added etc and definitely some form of GvG added.

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@"Teratus.2859" said:Thought i'd disagree with you but actually I don't.

Atm I have 3 major issues with Gw2 as a game.

Firstly Living world Season 1.. the fact that season 1 content still hasn't been remade and re-added to the game in some way to bridge the gaping hole in the story between the Personal Story and Season 2 irritates the hell out of me.I am absolutely 100% in favour of Anet prioratizing this even if it means delaying new content for the game.. I don't care if I have to wait another year for the next living world season or 2-3 years for the next expansion..I hate that Gw2 is an incomplete game and this hole missing due to season 1 has bothered me for years.

  1. Dungeon story instances are not balanced for solo player runs and their mail iontroductions break story continuity with the personal story.. small problem but it bugs the hell out of me.

  2. Major plot points based on completely broken Lich lore.What is a Lich in Gw2?How does a Lich work?Nobody can answer those questions because there have only been 2 major Lich's in the Guildwars story and their backstories specifically around the subject of Lichdom are a complete mystery and inconsistent.Khilbron and Joko both have seemingly different forms of Lich magic.. and ascended ring in Gw2 hints that Khilbron had a ring that housed his soul (the typical D&D phylatery concept) despite no recorded lore in either game suggesting he made one, while Joko on the other hand appears to be a Lich through some unknown magic because reasons..Fact that a huge story moment is based on that unknown lore left me very sour in the mouth and felt like a huge cop-out on the typically great story telling that Anet has been doing for years.

There are many areas in the lore that need fleshing out and questions answered and Lich's in Guildwars is one of the biggest areas in the lore that is just a massive blank kitten right now.

I agree with you that PvP also needs a lot of TLC, more modes added etc and definitely some form of GvG added.

Exactly. There is too much mystery behind many if not most main characters. It prevents fans from really sitting down and talking about the game, the story, and the lore.

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@Adry.7512 said:I know this thread will receive massive hate by people who have an extremist state of mind towards this.....but here goes nothing. GW2 has one of the best if not the BEST pve content in any mmorpg. I reallyyyyyy want you to think this through, it’s a big statement but think. When you take the story and PvP out of a game you think is better than GW2....then all you’re left is solely pve gameplay, and now tell me that it’s better than this one. Can you honestly make that statement? In my opinion it has no one to surpass it. Now....why is this game capped at only 13 million players? Because that’s the only epic thing about this game....the pve gameplay, that’s all it has to it’s greatness. The story is good, but not great. The story lacks clarity, the history and lore are STILLLLLL unknown after like 15 years....it’s like reading a veryyyyyyy slow paced book. Now the other big thing an mmorpg has is PvP. Pvp can’t even be stated as good, it’s terrible. The mechanics are amazing, the classes are amazing, but the PvP mode itself is abandoned, neglected, unaltered, with the same options since launch. Every mmorpg at the level of GW2 has dedicated SIGNIFICANT focus on PvP. Meaning they have team battles, 2v2, war politics and alliances, better structured 1v1 options. Now do these games continuously change their PvP? No, they don’t need to, it’s beefy, it’s rich in content. GW2 has the same game mode since launch and a dying, if not already dead, PvP community.

With this being said, I think that a strong shift in focus needs to be put into this game in those TWO factors, lore and PVP. It’s a risky thing to say for you all because the crowed that this game attracted are very pve casual players, but that’s why this game caps at only 13 million, the others are in other games. So I challenge Anet to take the risk and take some time to build on these two aspects. Then this game will def surpass 15 million.

Anet was once praised for being different and for being risk takers. But now I see a company that is scared to be different.

I followed your line of reasoning right up to your last sentence. At that point you lamented ANet's fear of being different by complaining that GW2 is not doing the same things as other games. The contradiction is strong in this one.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

I agree, but PVP is the pillar that holds the playerbase.

Really? If this were so, then why wouldn't Anet dedicate the bulk of their resources to it?

It’s a risk. But I want you to ponder on my statement. If pve constantly needs to be developed to keep players online, then what is the backbone to that? The answer is PvP, it’s the right hand of pve. When the players burn out the pve, or when they personally feel like they want to stop pve for a bit, then that person has 3 options. The options are, go outside, play a different game, or PvP. Out of those 3 options, the most beneficial one for Anet is go play PvP. Pvp keeps players entertained for weeks or months until the next content arrives. PVP is a huge money maker, and it attracts many people.

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I followed your line of reasoning right up to your last sentence. At that point you lamented ANet's fear of being different by complaining that GW2 is not doing the same things as other games. The contradiction is strong in this one.

I see where you’re drawing that statement from but that’s not what I meant. I mean they are afraid of change, they are afraid to be different in the sense of stepping slightly out of their comfort zone, their safe zone. They were different because they stepped outside the formula, they stepped outside the comfort zone, now that is not the case anymore.

They managed to revolutionize the genre, even WOW has copied Anet. Why? Because they were the first to make that big risk. Before, everything was a WOW clone or Everquest clone, nothing was really different. They made that difference.

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Pvp is not a major pillar of any mmo ive ever played. It is an added extra mode and generally appeals to a smaller audience, albeit the mass pvp wvw targets tends to bridge the gap enough, it brings in a much larger percentage of players.

Pvp does not attract the long term players or the money like pve does in an mmo

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@Randulf.7614 said:Pvp is not a major pillar of any mmo ive ever played. It is an added extra mode and generally appeals to a smaller audience, albeit the mass pvp wvw targets tends to bridge the gap enough, it brings in a much larger percentage of players.

Pvp does not attract the long term players or the money like pve does in an Mmo

That is exactly why I said it’s the pillar, or rather the backbone. It’s Not just a side piece, it’s THE side piece.

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I’d be glad to see more PvP options and game modes — would entice me to try it again. :) To my mind, nothing wrong with the maps that exist but as OP stated, needs to be more.

My favorite part of this game is the PvE, exploring the maps, especially with mounts and gliding, working on collections, etc.

Lore, well, as long as it doesn’t seem out of place and is actually explained to those of us who haven’t played GW1... I would have been interested in learning more about the Mursaat but feel that was thrown away on some pointless NPC (Livia, ugh). Whenever there is something that seems out of place to me it always ends up being GW1 shoehorn. :disappointed: Joko was fine; I didn’t need to know he had existed in GW1.

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I can't speak for anyone else but I've never really enjoyed PvP in any game I've played, especially RPGs, and it's highly unlikely GW2 could do anything to get me to focus on PvP. I'll spent literally thousands of hours on PvE, but even with WvW (which I find far more enjoyable than sPvP) I get bored after a few hours and go do something else, then it might be days or weeks or even months before I go back to it.

Now maybe I'm the one exception there, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are other people who feel the same and like me they were attracted to this game because PvP is completely separate and optional. Which means if Anet was to shift their focus to primarily making PvP content they actually run the risk of losing players who enjoy the current format. I know you're not suggesting making PvP mandatory, but if it became the main focus and PvE was neglected as a result I'd be far more likely to stop playing in favour of games which make content I enjoy than force myself to play PvP because it's all that's left.

(Also maybe I'm just old fashioned (I remember when it was amazing that Ultima Online had 10,000 players) but I don't see 13 million accounts as a bad thing. I know that's total accounts created rather than active players, but I doubt any studio would be unhappy with that number. If Anet thought it was in any way disappointing I seriously doubt they'd have announced it. They had no obligation to make it public and it was part of their marketing - you don't typically market your game on how few people have got it...unless you're promoting it exclusively to hipsters.)

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Everyone has their favorite game mode and will then declare it as the primary thing that holds the game together.

PVE is fun and clearly the big money maker for Anet - if it wasn't they'd be investing their bigger changes in the other game modes instead.WvW is my favorite game mode, but I know its not as popular and receives very little attention as compared to PVE and its fractals, raids and living world releases.PvP is a wasteland of lost opportunities. My opinion is that stagnant game modes and the most horrific matchmaking lead to its downfall.

At this point in this several year old game, I don't expect much of anything outside of PVE (though I am still crossing my fingers for alliances). Its where they make their bank and where most of the players are.

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@Adry.7512 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Where are people getting these player cap numbers from?

From Anet, but 13 million is an estimate. Last time Anet gave numbers it was 12~

No, ANet said 11 million accounts. Which includes every account ever made and inclusive of those with multiple accounts. I think we can pretty much guarantee the number of active players has never come remotely close to being over 10 million at any point in its life. Frankly I'll be surprised if it is half that despite how strongly populated the game is after 7 years

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@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:Everyone has their favorite game mode and will then declare it as the primary thing that holds the game together.

PVE is fun and clearly the big money maker for Anet - if it wasn't they'd be investing their bigger changes in the other game modes instead.WvW is my favorite game mode, but I know its not as popular and receives very little attention as compared to PVE and its fractals, raids and living world releases.PvP is a wasteland of lost opportunities. My opinion is that stagnant game modes and the most horrific matchmaking lead to its downfall.

At this point in this several year old game, I don't expect much of anything outside of PVE (though I am still crossing my fingers for alliances). Its where they make their bank and where most of the players are.

This is on point. It’s a sad reality. The thing is that they can invest more time and effort into these other aspects of the game. Maybe now that their shift has changed to focus mostly on GW2, then Anet as a company can make these changes.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Where are people getting these player cap numbers from?

From Anet, but 13 million is an estimate. Last time Anet gave numbers it was 12~

No, ANet said 11 million accounts. Which includes every account ever made and inclusive of those with multiple accounts. I think we can pretty much guarantee the number of active players has never come remotely close to being over 10 million at any point in its life. Frankly I'll be surprised if it is half that despite how strongly populated the game is after 7 years

Yea, thanks for the clarification. I too feel the populous is nowhere near that number, but it is what it is. Point is that....it could reach a much higher cap.

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@Adry.7512 said:

@Emberfoot.6847 said:I doubt very much there are 13 million players. Accounts maybe, but some people like me have ten ?I do agree that more lore would be nice, but in all honesty Anet's strong point is NOT PvP. I'd def rather they focused on good story /lore/maps etc.

I agree, but PVP is the pillar that holds the playerbase.

This thread is replete with comments like this …. opinions put forward as fact.

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@tippolit.3591 said:

@Emberfoot.6847 said:I doubt very much there are 13 million players. Accounts maybe, but some people like me have ten ?I do agree that more lore would be nice, but in all honesty Anet's strong point is NOT PvP. I'd def rather they focused on good story /lore/maps etc.

I agree, but PVP is the pillar that holds the playerbase.

This thread is replete with comments like this …. opinions put forward as fact.

No, it’s not.

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