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Would scrapper be too OP for raiding if they could give either alicrity or quickness to allies?


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The scrapper has the ability to revive allies from a distance, having this ability would make you think they would be popular in training runsBut no the Necro/scourge who has the ability to teleport downed allies to himself and mass revive them gets picked instead.(scourge is slowly becoming popular bit by bit I know, I dont mind that, I just mind the shadow the scrapper is in at the moment )

Outside of niece builds and certain raids like sloth for the heavy condi heal, the scrapper never sees the living daylight in the raiding communityReason why I come with the question what would have if the scrapper was given the power to supply quickness/alicrity to his allies (either 5 or 10 man)

Would it make the class too op? The answer is yes.It would make the class op in PVP/WvW yes but those modes could simply not receive those scrapper alicrity or quickness buffsIts my believe training runs would have more success if the scrapper was made a popular choice for raidingHaving a scourge/scrapper and maybe even a tempest if they made that class popular for raiding too would give people more time to learn certain mechanics before their eventually demise because they aren't doing enough damage to the bosses yet.

To any people who say people should be masochists and be prepared to die over and over again to a raid boss without improving much can feel the wrath of my Balthazar hounds who I've temporary loaned from their master!!! (mehehehehe, this can be ignored if you desire)

Now I'm curios to know why the Scrapper shouldn't be changed for raiding because they're fine as they are and no changes are needed at all.Or what can be done instead to make the scrapper more viable to the raiding community

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@Rico.6873 said:The scrapper has the ability to revive allies from a distance, having this ability would make you think they would be popular in training runsBut no the Necro/scourge who has the ability to teleport downed allies to himself and mass revive them gets picked instead.(scourge is slowly becoming popular bit by bit I know, I dont mind that, I just mind the shadow the scrapper is in at the moment )

Outside of niece builds and certain raids like sloth for the heavy condi heal, the scrapper never sees the living daylight in the raiding communityReason why I come with the question what would have if the scrapper was given the power to supply quickness/alicrity to his allies (either 5 or 10 man)

Would it make the class too op? The answer is yes.It would make the class op in PVP/WvW yes but those modes could simply not receive those scrapper alicrity or quickness buffsIts my believe training runs would have more success if the scrapper was made a popular choice for raidingHaving a scourge/scrapper and maybe even a tempest if they made that class popular for raiding too would give people more time to learn certain mechanics before their eventually demise because they aren't doing enough damage to the bosses yet.

To any people who say people should be masochists and be prepared to die over and over again to a raid boss without improving much can feel the wrath of my Balthazar hounds who I've temporary loaned from their master!!! (mehehehehe, this can be ignored if you desire)

Now I'm curios to know why the Scrapper shouldn't be changed for raiding because they're fine as they are and no changes are needed at all.Or what can be done instead to make the scrapper more viable to the raiding community

Scrapper is already really good in WvW and PvP. Giving it access to either Alacricy or Quickness would make them absolutely ridiculous in those modes. Not every spezialistation has to be good in PvE. Some are just build more suited for PvP and that's fine.

Teleporting downed people to the group is much better than range revive. You can get them out of mechanics they died to, e.g. wells at Matthias, and have more people revive them at the same time.

People don't improve when you can heal them through anything. They just learn that their healers just iron out every mistake they make.

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@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Rico.6873 said:The scrapper has the ability to revive allies from a distance, having this ability would make you think they would be popular in training runsBut no the Necro/scourge who has the ability to teleport downed allies to himself and mass revive them gets picked instead.(scourge is slowly becoming popular bit by bit I know, I dont mind that, I just mind the shadow the scrapper is in at the moment )

Outside of niece builds and certain raids like sloth for the heavy condi heal, the scrapper never sees the living daylight in the raiding community
Reason why I come with the question what would have if the scrapper was given the power to supply quickness/alicrity to his allies (either 5 or 10 man)

Would it make the class too op? The answer is yes.It would make the class op in PVP/WvW yes but those modes could simply not receive those scrapper alicrity or quickness buffsIts my believe training runs would have more success if the scrapper was made a popular choice for raidingHaving a scourge/scrapper and maybe even a tempest if they made that class popular for raiding too would give people more time to learn certain mechanics before their eventually demise because they aren't doing enough damage to the bosses yet.

To any people who say people should be masochists and be prepared to die over and over again to a raid boss without improving much can feel the wrath of my Balthazar hounds who I've temporary loaned from their master!!! (mehehehehe, this can be ignored if you desire)

Now I'm curios to know why the Scrapper shouldn't be changed for raiding because they're fine as they are and no changes are needed at all.Or what can be done instead to make the scrapper more viable to the raiding community

Not every spezialistation has to be good in PvE. Some are just build more suited for PvP and that's fine.

People don't improve when you can heal them through anything. They just learn that their healers just iron out every mistake they make.

Like I said these changes would not impact pvp/WvW because scrapper is strong in those modes, only in pve would these changes be affected. Also every specialization is seen decently in a raid except the herald and scrapper.

We also have training runs with 2 healers instead of one, so it seems that people do expect healers to iron out every mistake they make.....

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@Rico.6873 said:

@Rico.6873 said:The scrapper has the ability to revive allies from a distance, having this ability would make you think they would be popular in training runsBut no the Necro/scourge who has the ability to teleport downed allies to himself and mass revive them gets picked instead.(scourge is slowly becoming popular bit by bit I know, I dont mind that, I just mind the shadow the scrapper is in at the moment )

Outside of niece builds and certain raids like sloth for the heavy condi heal, the scrapper never sees the living daylight in the raiding community
Reason why I come with the question what would have if the scrapper was given the power to supply quickness/alicrity to his allies (either 5 or 10 man)

Would it make the class too op? The answer is yes.It would make the class op in PVP/WvW yes but those modes could simply not receive those scrapper alicrity or quickness buffsIts my believe training runs would have more success if the scrapper was made a popular choice for raidingHaving a scourge/scrapper and maybe even a tempest if they made that class popular for raiding too would give people more time to learn certain mechanics before their eventually demise because they aren't doing enough damage to the bosses yet.

To any people who say people should be masochists and be prepared to die over and over again to a raid boss without improving much can feel the wrath of my Balthazar hounds who I've temporary loaned from their master!!! (mehehehehe, this can be ignored if you desire)

Now I'm curios to know why the Scrapper shouldn't be changed for raiding because they're fine as they are and no changes are needed at all.Or what can be done instead to make the scrapper more viable to the raiding community

Not every spezialistation has to be good in PvE. Some are just build more suited for PvP and that's fine.

People don't improve when you can heal them through anything. They just learn that their healers just iron out every mistake they make.

Like I said these changes would not impact pvp/WvW because scrapper is strong in those modes, only in pve would these changes be affected. Also every specialization is seen decently in a raid except the herald and scrapper.

We also have training runs with 2 healers instead of one, so it seems that people do expect healers to iron out every mistake they make.....

Anet skill splitting only ever involves number changes. If they add more boons in PvE, they will also add those boons in PvP and WvW.

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@Rico.6873 said:

@Rico.6873 said:The scrapper has the ability to revive allies from a distance, having this ability would make you think they would be popular in training runsBut no the Necro/scourge who has the ability to teleport downed allies to himself and mass revive them gets picked instead.(scourge is slowly becoming popular bit by bit I know, I dont mind that, I just mind the shadow the scrapper is in at the moment )

Outside of niece builds and certain raids like sloth for the heavy condi heal, the scrapper never sees the living daylight in the raiding community
Reason why I come with the question what would have if the scrapper was given the power to supply quickness/alicrity to his allies (either 5 or 10 man)

Would it make the class too op? The answer is yes.It would make the class op in PVP/WvW yes but those modes could simply not receive those scrapper alicrity or quickness buffsIts my believe training runs would have more success if the scrapper was made a popular choice for raidingHaving a scourge/scrapper and maybe even a tempest if they made that class popular for raiding too would give people more time to learn certain mechanics before their eventually demise because they aren't doing enough damage to the bosses yet.

To any people who say people should be masochists and be prepared to die over and over again to a raid boss without improving much can feel the wrath of my Balthazar hounds who I've temporary loaned from their master!!! (mehehehehe, this can be ignored if you desire)

Now I'm curios to know why the Scrapper shouldn't be changed for raiding because they're fine as they are and no changes are needed at all.Or what can be done instead to make the scrapper more viable to the raiding community

Not every spezialistation has to be good in PvE. Some are just build more suited for PvP and that's fine.

People don't improve when you can heal them through anything. They just learn that their healers just iron out every mistake they make.

Like I said these changes would not impact pvp/WvW because scrapper is strong in those modes, only in pve would these changes be affected. Also every specialization is seen decently in a raid except the herald and scrapper.

This is something that will likely never happen. I can't recall any mechanical difference between PvE/PvP for skills. Only numbers. Every change that includes new boons for classes has to be considered for all modes.

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For the sake of discussing Scrapper in PvE (not considering the other modes in this), any build that is in an already "decent" spot should not receive 10-man quickness or alacrity. Experimental Turrests combined with those 10-man must have boons would turn them into Druids 2.0 - stronger than the Druids have been even before all of the nerfs. Don't see that happening.However, 5-man quickness seems more likely and ultimately more interesting. But then it really depends how quickness is added. How convenient it would be, if there is the possiblity to run them as an offensive support, etc for them to ever rival the Firebrands.

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@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

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Engi used to be able to provide 60% quickness uptime for 5 but it was changed to provide some minor superspeed instead.Kitty's also been asking for Experimental Turrets to be changed to 10 targets instead of 5 to be on par with Herald's facets and druid's spirits ever since spirits were made 10-target (though they've lately nerfed the spirits but they're still way superior to turrets). But they still haven't done anything about it. And it still wouldn't make scrapper super-OP as PVP has 5 proper targets anyway, turrets wouldn't survive in WvW and in PVE heal-engi/scrapper needs to choose between keeping up certain boons with turrets or providing barrier. Or some other useful utility. (And as of now Rifle Turret is pretty much mandatory as it's the only native way to provide fury for sub.)It's not like engi's ressbot capability is excessive either. Yush, Toss Elixir R heals 12x17% on downed ppls and is technically capable of ressing the squad if they're not taking damage after getting downed, but it requires the squad to get downed in one spot. Elixir R also has double the cooldown of necro's and druid's similar skills (with HGH and compared against untraited Well of Blood and Nature Spirit) and while scrapper can ress from range, it can't pull the downed peoples out from poison which sometimes makes even trying to ress completely pointless (while druid and blood magic necro can happily pull peoples out of danger zone and ress them fully with a press of single button on relatively short cd).Another big issue atm is engi's might generation. Out of all possible healing classes (thief and warr don't count as they don't heal enough to be considered a main healer), only heal-chrono puts out less might (but it grants some quickness+alacrity to make it a special case). Even with try-hard clean mightbotting out of combat with optimized mightbot heal build, it can only sustain 16-19 stacks of might for 5 and way less in actual combat and even that requires some fire field blasting. And that's with core engi, scrapper does a few stacks less. (Kitty had hoped that Blast Gyro revamp would've helped but it's still inferior to traited Flame turret and thus core engi remains better for boonbotting due to shorter toolbelt cooldowns. Scrapper-spec doesn't help at all at booning others atm.)

And for those reasons, heal-engi/scrapper is currently mainly viable as 2nd healer in 10-player-groups and it also somehow works in 5-player-parties if you're really good at it and optimized for mightbotting as core engi.

Ofc one more reason why there's almost no heal-scrappers and zero heal-engies (other than Kitty) in raids atm is that every single heal-scrapper she's seen have been built purely to heal with almost non-existent boon output.And like Kitty's been ranting for 2 years soon, a heal build's 2nd main purpose is providing full boon uptimes, especially fury and might. As long as people build their healers only to heal and ignore boons, they'll never be accepted as a common alternative to metahealers in pug comps. No matter how well it heals (and heal-scrapper has the strongest heal output of any classes atm).

Ofc we have one build that had done that: heal-scourge. And that's due to its insane barrier output mitigating the usually lethal mechanics into minor nuisances and even if people fail super-hard, heal-scourge can just keep on pulling them around and ressing them every time they go down until the boss dies unless they die in super-awkward spot.But since they output no fury ('cause Kitty seems to be the only heal-scourge who uses pack runes and harrier/magi gears as everyone else says "But scourge doesn't boon at all" 'cause none builds it to boon properly) and they're usually grouped with a chrono (which can't keep up 100% uptime by itself), that usually results in 60ish% fury uptimes for heal-scourge's sub at best. And if you've ever played a power dps, you know how badly that shucks.

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

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@gateless gate.8406 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

2 extra dps, no?

pugs still run double chrono double healer

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@melandru.3876 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

2 extra dps, no?

pugs still run double chrono double healer
  • double chrono double druid. At least mostly on NA (and very often on EU, too) though sometimes also that boonless healscourge as 2nd healer.It's not like even double-druid in pugs ensures good might/fury uptimes if both druids spam staff 1 and enter CA maybe once in every 90 seconds to spam 43111111111. Kitty's legit seen that happen more than a few times lately. (Even if it's possible to keep up proper boon uptimes solo if traited to do so with just staff 1, spirits, F4 and CA4324.)
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@Rico.6873 said:

@Rico.6873 said:The scrapper has the ability to revive allies from a distance, having this ability would make you think they would be popular in training runsBut no the Necro/scourge who has the ability to teleport downed allies to himself and mass revive them gets picked instead.(scourge is slowly becoming popular bit by bit I know, I dont mind that, I just mind the shadow the scrapper is in at the moment )

Outside of niece builds and certain raids like sloth for the heavy condi heal, the scrapper never sees the living daylight in the raiding community
Reason why I come with the question what would have if the scrapper was given the power to supply quickness/alicrity to his allies (either 5 or 10 man)

Would it make the class too op? The answer is yes.It would make the class op in PVP/WvW yes but those modes could simply not receive those scrapper alicrity or quickness buffsIts my believe training runs would have more success if the scrapper was made a popular choice for raidingHaving a scourge/scrapper and maybe even a tempest if they made that class popular for raiding too would give people more time to learn certain mechanics before their eventually demise because they aren't doing enough damage to the bosses yet.

To any people who say people should be masochists and be prepared to die over and over again to a raid boss without improving much can feel the wrath of my Balthazar hounds who I've temporary loaned from their master!!! (mehehehehe, this can be ignored if you desire)

Now I'm curios to know why the Scrapper shouldn't be changed for raiding because they're fine as they are and no changes are needed at all.Or what can be done instead to make the scrapper more viable to the raiding community

Not every spezialistation has to be good in PvE. Some are just build more suited for PvP and that's fine.

People don't improve when you can heal them through anything. They just learn that their healers just iron out every mistake they make.

Like I said these changes would not impact pvp/WvW because scrapper is strong in those modes, only in pve would these changes be affected. Also every specialization is seen decently in a raid except the herald and scrapper.

We also have training runs with 2 healers instead of one, so it seems that people do expect healers to iron out every mistake they make.....

We've already seen Anet's unwillingness to separate class balance between the 2 game modes. No chance any class (let alone scrapper) will get access to alacrity and quickness in PvE while not in WvW. Also, the worst possible thing they could ever do (which they seemingly already actively do), is balance the game around raiding.

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@gateless gate.8406 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

Its not that easy to adjust every boss HP you know ^^ also raids are way too easy already so lets not start that ok ?

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Rico.6873 said:The scrapper has the ability to revive allies from a distance, having this ability would make you think they would be popular in training runsBut no the Necro/scourge who has the ability to teleport downed allies to himself and mass revive them gets picked instead.(scourge is slowly becoming popular bit by bit I know, I dont mind that, I just mind the shadow the scrapper is in at the moment )

Outside of niece builds and certain raids like sloth for the heavy condi heal, the scrapper never sees the living daylight in the raiding community
Reason why I come with the question what would have if the scrapper was given the power to supply quickness/alicrity to his allies (either 5 or 10 man)

Would it make the class too op? The answer is yes.It would make the class op in PVP/WvW yes but those modes could simply not receive those scrapper alicrity or quickness buffsIts my believe training runs would have more success if the scrapper was made a popular choice for raidingHaving a scourge/scrapper and maybe even a tempest if they made that class popular for raiding too would give people more time to learn certain mechanics before their eventually demise because they aren't doing enough damage to the bosses yet.

To any people who say people should be masochists and be prepared to die over and over again to a raid boss without improving much can feel the wrath of my Balthazar hounds who I've temporary loaned from their master!!! (mehehehehe, this can be ignored if you desire)

Now I'm curios to know why the Scrapper shouldn't be changed for raiding because they're fine as they are and no changes are needed at all.Or what can be done instead to make the scrapper more viable to the raiding community

Not every spezialistation has to be good in PvE. Some are just build more suited for PvP and that's fine.

People don't improve when you can heal them through anything. They just learn that their healers just iron out every mistake they make.

Like I said these changes would not impact pvp/WvW because scrapper is strong in those modes, only in pve would these changes be affected. Also every specialization is seen decently in a raid except the herald and scrapper.

We also have training runs with 2 healers instead of one, so it seems that people do expect healers to iron out every mistake they make.....

We've already seen Anet's unwillingness to separate class balance between the 2 game modes. No chance any class (let alone scrapper) will get access to alacrity and quickness in PvE while not in WvW. Also, the worst possible thing they could ever do (which they seemingly already actively do), is balance the game around raiding.

Correct. Raids are doable with lots of builds. In PvP and WvW you get destroyed by players of similar skill level if your spec is bad. Ele balance has been pretty egregious with raid nerfs affecting PvP and WvW, on a profession that was already a huge underperformer. Golem balancing only takes into account optimal DPS and should never be considered. Also, builds with more utility, survivability, easier to land attacks etc should have no business doing the same DPS. Either there should be a noticeable DPS difference or there should be more tools given to specs that only have DPS going for them. Either way is fine.

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@melandru.3876 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

2 extra dps, no?

pugs still run double chrono double healer

And what would choosing to run single heal on Gors have to do with buffing quickness to 10 man?

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

Its not that easy to adjust every boss HP you know ^^ also raids are way too easy already so lets not start that ok ?

We're talking about a 200-300 person development studio. I'm quite sure they could figure out the average DPS difference bringing one true DPS rather than 1 support Chrono.

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@gateless gate.8406 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

2 extra dps, no?

pugs still run double chrono double healer

And what would choosing to run single heal on Gors have to do with buffing quickness to 10 man?

Skipping mechanics, phasing the Boss faster, making the requirement on player skill lower. Take your pick.

Two extra dps is literally close to 30% more raid damage.

The effect of this was already witnessed twice in the past:

  • one when banners became 10 man, allowing for only 1 Banner warrior and opening up a dps slot
  • when druid buffs became 10 man, allowing for solo druid setups

Both of those cases made raids significantly easier.

@gateless gate.8406 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

Its not that easy to adjust every boss HP you know ^^ also raids are way too easy already so lets not start that ok ?

We're talking about a 200-300 person development studio. I'm quite sure they could figure out the average DPS difference bringing one true DPS rather than 1 support Chrono.

So why bring a Firebrand or Renegade again? Chrono provides 10-man quickness and Alacrity on 1 raid slot. Firebrand and Renegade take two spots.

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Scrapper already can resurrect 1 downed player, even if 2 enemies are cleaving it as hard as they can. This alone makes it stupidly broken in havoc vs havoc, and imo it should have no place in WvW.

I've seen it memed in the Twilight Oasis fractal for heavy condi clear when stabilities used to be especially bad.

I totally wouldnt mind if Scrapper was nerfed into the ground.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

2 extra dps, no?

pugs still run double chrono double healer

And what would choosing to run single heal on Gors have to do with buffing quickness to 10 man?

Skipping mechanics, phasing the Boss faster, making the requirement on player skill lower. Take your pick.

Two extra dps is literally close to 30% more raid damage.

The effect of this was already witnessed twice in the past:
  • one when banners became 10 man, allowing for only 1 Banner warrior and opening up a dps slot
  • when druid buffs became 10 man, allowing for solo druid setups

Both of those cases made raids significantly easier.

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

Its not that easy to adjust every boss HP you know ^^ also raids are way too easy already so lets not start that ok ?

We're talking about a 200-300 person development studio. I'm quite sure they could figure out the average DPS difference bringing one true DPS rather than 1 support Chrono.

So why bring a Firebrand or Renegade again? Chrono provides 10-man quickness and Alacrity on 1 raid slot. Firebrand and Renegade take two spots.

Renegade gives 10 man alicrity and a fire field and dps increase with Kala which also heals you if you attack, Guardian gives a lot of Aegis and a steady heal and a 15% vigor boost to all

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@Rico.6873 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

2 extra dps, no?

pugs still run double chrono double healer

And what would choosing to run single heal on Gors have to do with buffing quickness to 10 man?

Skipping mechanics, phasing the Boss faster, making the requirement on player skill lower. Take your pick.

Two extra dps is literally close to 30% more raid damage.

The effect of this was already witnessed twice in the past:
  • one when banners became 10 man, allowing for only 1 Banner warrior and opening up a dps slot
  • when druid buffs became 10 man, allowing for solo druid setups

Both of those cases made raids significantly easier.

@gateless gate.8406 said:Just make Chrono and FB buffs 10-man (at least in PVE). They did it with spirits, they did it with banners. It would make assembling a pug raid so much easier.

This would be a huge Buff, this would make many older Raid bosses too easy. Think about gorseval, with ur suggestion Squad composition would be:1 chrono1druid1 bs7 dpsSkipping mechanics with high dps output would be way too easy.

So.... 1 extra DPS? :)

ANet could simply adjust boss HP. Or not. I wouldn't mind raids being easier, as it might get more people into them. I think the quality of life improvement would be well worth it, regardless.

Its not that easy to adjust every boss HP you know ^^ also raids are way too easy already so lets not start that ok ?

We're talking about a 200-300 person development studio. I'm quite sure they could figure out the average DPS difference bringing one true DPS rather than 1 support Chrono.

So why bring a Firebrand or Renegade again? Chrono provides 10-man quickness and Alacrity on 1 raid slot. Firebrand and Renegade take two spots.

Renegade gives 10 man alicrity and a fire field and dps increase with Kala which also heals you if you attack, Guardian gives a lot of Aegis and a steady heal and a 15% vigor boost to all

So we are now talking about making all boons 10 man? Sure, that would work. Then chrono+druid would be 2 supports which compete with Renegade and Firebrand.

Last I checked, Renegade does not give 10 people might, neither does Firebrand. The same goes for fury.

So is the argument made now all support boons should be balanced for 10 man? That could be discussed. Yet, that still does not address the vast power creep which would happen.

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There’s also the other option of doing the unthinkable: giving scrapper a viable PvE dps role.

Now I’m aware that Holosmith already exists, but I’m getting tired of the oh, only this spec is the ‘dps spec’ - I don’t like the apparent need to pigeonhole specs into specific roles. How I’m approaching this, is the same way of how DD/DE and tempest/weaver co-exist - there’s somehow viable power dps builds for both options. I think it might help to look at DE and tempest in detail, since the pigeonhole society have categorised these two into ‘support’ somewhere down the line (which they obviously have the choice not to be).

Dps scrapper IMO should be what kitless holo is currently - potentially a slightly inferior but viable dps spec (although it doesn’t have to be inferior overall), maybe with an easier rotation (purely uses hammer, doesn’t need to switch into kits/manage heat and photon forge) and unique features (like high amounts of cc and stab uptime). Basically, a dps option with a different flavour; does the same thing but in a different way, perhaps with additional useful features, but with a clearly different aesthetic/theme.

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