Guild hall arena Pve balanced ? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Guild hall arena Pve balanced ?

Hello,

I've recently involved myself quite a lot in PvP and WvW. Activities for which my guild trains a lot. And for that, we usually go to the guild hall arena and fight there.
Only problem is : it's a PvE balance.

So i thought : Why in hell would you use a PvE balance for such a thing ? PvE people will NEVER have to try their skills on another player. It makes no sense. And there are the fractals and raid golems for that (although one could argue they too could easily be improved).
The guild arena is for people to fight other people, so it would only make sense to get a PvP or WvW balance, so that we could try our damage , effects, durations, cooldowns, etc. on other players, similar to what we would face in the real world of PvP or WvW. Now, i get that PvP balance might not make a lot of sense considering Anet probably wants to push custom PvP arenas for that. But then, why asking us tons and tons of gold for that Arena ? But at least, introducing a WvW balance shouldn't be that crazy of an idea. Even more so considering there is no way to "train" your WvW gameplay, while there has some possibilities for PvP (custom arena or FFA arena) and PvE (golems).
And if you consider the fact that you can set up 3 teams (and more) in the guild arena, this really looks like it's meant to simulate WvW landscape.

I'd appreciate some feedback from a dev/rep on that matter.

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Comments

  • The devs have explained: guild halls are PvE locations; there's no way to use a WvW or PvP build without creating a totally new instance, and custom arenas do that fine for PvP. They haven't said that they'll never get to it for WvW; it's just not a high priority and it's a lot of work, so it's unlikely to happen "soon."

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Thanks for clearing that up. Remains the question : why would you even do such an arena then ? Did they think that through or just straight up went for it even though it would be totaly useless so it could become a gold sink ?

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    The reason this arena exists as it is was because in past skills were not split between pve and pvp. So indeed, pvp custom arena are the place to go. The pvp arena in guild hall can still be used ofc but just for fun and not for testing.

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭

    They want you to pay
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    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armistice_Bastion

  • @Aaralyna.3104 said:
    The pvp arena in guild hall can still be used ofc but just for fun and not for testing.

    It's pretty much always been "just for fun."

    In the early days of guilds, my limited exposure saw the GH Arena used for:

    • Insta-e-go: he more competitive people used it for "quick" duels (I noted that it didn't seem any quicker than finding a custom pvp arena)
    • Intra-guild skirmishes: an overlapping group used it sometimes for 2v2 or 3v3
    • PvE training: turns out, it's actually pretty good for 1-on-1 training. I've used it to teach people active defense (when to use a block skill, when to dodge, how to recognize tells, etc.)
    • PvE training II: in the old days, the Aerodrome golems weren't as useful or as accessible.

    Of those, the third (1-on-1 training) remains useful, although it's usually easier now to coach people at Aerodrome or fractal lobby golems.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tidoc Blackrider.9164 said:
    Thanks for clearing that up. Remains the question : why would you even do such an arena then ? Did they think that through or just straight up went for it even though it would be totaly useless so it could become a gold sink ?

    As above skills weren’t split back then so it was fine at the time and it is unlikely they have prioritised changing this to the updated forms given the number of projects ring worked in and the abandonment of a guild hall team

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Crystal Black.8190Crystal Black.8190 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The devs have explained: guild halls are PvE locations; there's no way to use a WvW or PvP build without creating a totally new instance, and custom arenas do that fine for PvP. They haven't said that they'll never get to it for WvW; it's just not a high priority and it's a lot of work, so it's unlikely to happen "soon."

    But why doesnt the whole guild hall use the wvw-balance and build? There arent any mobs to fight there. Maybe you could use some movement skills in guild hall, but why not use a mount for movement? So i dont really see how using the wvw-balance outside of the arena could break things.

  • @Crystal Black.8190 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The devs have explained: guild halls are PvE locations; there's no way to use a WvW or PvP build without creating a totally new instance, and custom arenas do that fine for PvP. They haven't said that they'll never get to it for WvW; it's just not a high priority and it's a lot of work, so it's unlikely to happen "soon."

    But why doesnt the whole guild hall use the wvw-balance and build? There arent any mobs to fight there. Maybe you could use some movement skills in guild hall, but why not use a mount for movement? So i dont really see how using the wvw-balance outside of the arena could break things.

    How would they implement it? It's a PvE instance, so it has PvE mechanics. To give it WvW mechanics would mean that every GH would be WvW, so players would have their WvW builds, even those who never WvW. I'm sure you can see how that would be confusing.

    Among the possibilities would be allowing a guild to designate its hall as WvW, acknowledging the potential mismatch that some players might find. That's simple enough to describe. It's a different thing entirely to recreate the guild hall as a WvW instance

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Crystal Black.8190Crystal Black.8190 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    How would they implement it? It's a PvE instance, so it has PvE mechanics. To give it WvW mechanics would mean that every GH would be WvW, so players would have their WvW builds, even those who never WvW. I'm sure you can see how that would be confusing.

    Among the possibilities would be allowing a guild to designate its hall as WvW, acknowledging the potential mismatch that some players might find. That's simple enough to describe. It's a different thing entirely to recreate the guild hall as a WvW instance

    I have no insight in their code, but i would guess that it is some kind of flag that thells the map which kind of skills/builds it should use.

    That players have their wvw builds in the gh is exactly the point. For players that never wvw would nothing change except that they have equiped the default utility skills for their class, if they never changed them. Different utility skills that you would need to swap out once isnt something i would consider confusing. Everything else like all trait lines is completely irrelevant for players who never wvw, because there is nothing to fight in the gh.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because WvW maps had no Mounts, and back then, I believe, no Gliding. The arena is a small part of the entire Guild Hall.
    Can't just pick some attributes and not others; it's all or nothing.

  • Crystal Black.8190Crystal Black.8190 Member ✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Because WvW maps had no Mounts, and back then, I believe, no Gliding. The arena is a small part of the entire Guild Hall.
    Can't just pick some attributes and not others; it's all or nothing.

    Thats a good argument, i didnt think of te lack of gliding mounts on the wvw maps. Currently gliding and mount usage requires some low wvw level, so i guess that prevents making it a wvw map. The warclaw is also the only mount usable on wvw maps. The pvp lobby on the other hand has all that enabled, maybe give us pvp builds instead? Or just add an upgrade that adds a pvp custom server to the guild to use without the constant demand of gold to keep it.

  • To clarify, it's two issues, not one:

    • Guild Halls are designed as PvE: it's not enough to set the flag for WvW; there are aspects about how it's built that assumed PvE, not PvP or WvW and they'd have to adjust (or create a new map that looks identical)
    • Most people using GH are PvE-centric. It wouldn't be good to make GH WvW for everyone and there's currently no provision to allow players to choose WvW vs PvE on any map.

    As I mentioned above, neither of those things are conceptually challenging. That doesn't make it simple to implement nor free of cost. There has to be a compelling reason to spend the resources. And, from what we've seen, there probably aren't that many who would use the feature. (Mind you: those interested would probably make great and frequent use of it. Sort of similar to SAB in that regard: very popular among the niche group who likes the idea in the first place.)

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • luzonophir.7134luzonophir.7134 Member ✭✭
    edited July 3, 2019

    it should be WvWvW based balanced.

  • Rasfar.6921Rasfar.6921 Member ✭✭

    They could make something similar, like the vendor that changes music around guild hall, where you can select do you use pve or wvw balance. Make it reload the guildhall instance on change if needed. Would take some development resources sure, but it would make many people happy too. I am pretty sure it is not that big of a task either.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Do you mean change the entire Guild Hall to WvW from an NPC? So, everyone would have to reload into the Guild Hall and lose their ability to glide or use Mounts? Or use anything else that is restricted in WvW?
    Or, is the Arena a separate instance? I've never used it, so I don't know.

  • Rasfar.6921Rasfar.6921 Member ✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Do you mean change the entire Guild Hall to WvW from an NPC? So, everyone would have to reload into the Guild Hall and lose their ability to glide or use Mounts? Or use anything else that is restricted in WvW?
    Or, is the Arena a separate instance? I've never used it, so I don't know.

    Arena is not a separete instance so it probably would have to effect the whole guild hall

  • Orion Templar.4589Orion Templar.4589 Member ✭✭✭

    Personally I wouldn't put revamping the guild hall arena high on the priority list. I know it may be important to some, but just speaking for myself and our guild, we typically would use Armistice Bastion for that type of thing.

  • Rasfar.6921Rasfar.6921 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    Great to hear a response, thanks

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    Go back to the old guild ways. Let small closed guilds function again as they used to.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    I kind find it hard to believe that turning sPvP menu and stats in an instanced location is a difficult task. It should be a press a button on your end, like all sPvP maps.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    Would it be possible to add some sort of decoration that can change the map type?

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    I kind find it hard to believe that turning sPvP menu and stats in an instanced location is a difficult task. It should be a press a button on your end, like all sPvP maps.

    Guild Halls do not seem to be an instanced location. For example you can WP into it and it uses the same population limiting feature of open world maps as it fills up/empties.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Two things:

    • Nothing prevents a player from switching to their WvW build to fight in the GH Arena, because that build uses your PvE gear. Of course, that will be quite a bit easier when/if build templates are available.
    • One of the arguments against the implementation of more general PvE dueling is that people who want to use their PvE builds to duel can do so in the GH arena. Switching the GH Arena to an sPvP setup would negate that option.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    Now you done it, now everyone's going to come with their own priorities. 😋

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭

    i have a good idea :-P
    make guild hall finally WvW setting and enable Guild Wars there ( GvG like GW1 or with 10 vs 10 )

    Thank You
    ...

    i'm waiting for this feature for 7 years ..

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    I kind find it hard to believe that turning sPvP menu and stats in an instanced location is a difficult task. It should be a press a button on your end, like all sPvP maps.

    It's because the gamemode settings, like conditions scaling, retaliation damage etc are tied to the region the map is in (the regions being PvP, WvW and PvE). If they moved the Guild Hall into The Heart of the Mists where PvP lobby is, the applied ruleset would be a PvP one. My bet is, that's what they'll try to do - move the entire Guild Hall map into different region.

    [NUKE]

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Samug.6512 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    I kind find it hard to believe that turning sPvP menu and stats in an instanced location is a difficult task. It should be a press a button on your end, like all sPvP maps.

    It's because the gamemode settings, like conditions scaling, retaliation damage etc are tied to the region the map is in (the regions being PvP, WvW and PvE). If they moved the Guild Hall into The Heart of the Mists where PvP lobby is, the applied ruleset would be a PvP one. My bet is, that's what they'll try to do - move the entire Guild Hall map into different region.

    Yes, with all the limitations and problems that comes with that, like the WvW mode having no mounts/gliding by default, and you have to enable them with WxP, and only battlecat for mount. I can imagine the majority of players (pve) being very angry at that.

    Another alternative would be to move 1 of the existing GuildHalls to WvW for ex, if it is possible to split them up like that. Most players likely have access to at least 2 different halls by now anyways. Obviously this depends on a lot of technical limitations I can't know.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    Currently playing: Planescape Torment, Divinity Original Sin 2, Zelda BotW

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    Now I'm curious what IS the actual priority list.. would help us players understand the company's focus :)

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Crystal Black.8190 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The devs have explained: guild halls are PvE locations; there's no way to use a WvW or PvP build without creating a totally new instance, and custom arenas do that fine for PvP. They haven't said that they'll never get to it for WvW; it's just not a high priority and it's a lot of work, so it's unlikely to happen "soon."

    But why doesnt the whole guild hall use the wvw-balance and build? There arent any mobs to fight there. Maybe you could use some movement skills in guild hall, but why not use a mount for movement? So i dont really see how using the wvw-balance outside of the arena could break things.

    How would they implement it? It's a PvE instance, so it has PvE mechanics. To give it WvW mechanics would mean that every GH would be WvW, so players would have their WvW builds, even those who never WvW. I'm sure you can see how that would be confusing.

    Among the possibilities would be allowing a guild to designate its hall as WvW, acknowledging the potential mismatch that some players might find. That's simple enough to describe. It's a different thing entirely to recreate the guild hall as a WvW instance

    I cant see how it would be confusing, if ppl have or dont have wvw it doesnt matter because u dont play your class inside a gh unless u are in the arena which is a pvp tool by design.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vegeta.2563 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We've discussed all these ideas around guild hall arena and probably more. There are things we'd like to try at some point. But as some have mentioned, the guild hall arena is not high on the current priority list.

    Now I'm curious what IS the actual priority list.. would help us players understand the company's focus :)

    Focus: More gem store items, outfits, mount skins etc. Sorry I couldn't resist.

    Here is an actual list of their priorities at the moment, from their different departments/teams:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/

    So basically:
    Legendary Runes and Sigils
    Build Templates
    Cooking increased to 500
    World Restructuring in WvW
    Swiss tournament support for sPVP

    And obviously Season 5.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Crystal Black.8190 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The devs have explained: guild halls are PvE locations; there's no way to use a WvW or PvP build without creating a totally new instance, and custom arenas do that fine for PvP. They haven't said that they'll never get to it for WvW; it's just not a high priority and it's a lot of work, so it's unlikely to happen "soon."

    But why doesnt the whole guild hall use the wvw-balance and build? There arent any mobs to fight there. Maybe you could use some movement skills in guild hall, but why not use a mount for movement? So i dont really see how using the wvw-balance outside of the arena could break things.

    How would they implement it? It's a PvE instance, so it has PvE mechanics. To give it WvW mechanics would mean that every GH would be WvW, so players would have their WvW builds, even those who never WvW. I'm sure you can see how that would be confusing.

    Among the possibilities would be allowing a guild to designate its hall as WvW, acknowledging the potential mismatch that some players might find. That's simple enough to describe. It's a different thing entirely to recreate the guild hall as a WvW instance

    I cant see how it would be confusing, if ppl have or dont have wvw it doesnt matter because u dont play your class inside a gh unless u are in the arena which is a pvp tool by design.

    But, they do use their Mounts, and Gliders to an extent. They may want to use other consumables that aren't allowed in WvW, as well.
    How would the players that have created races or jumping puzzles (that require gliding, or use gliding to keep from falling to ones death) feel about their efforts being arbitrarily removed? How would players feel about having to play in WvW to unlock gliding for Guild Halls? Or, the one Mount allowed in WvW?

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