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2 necros in every game - why is no one talking about this?


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Honestly if anything needs a nerf it’s necro. Scourge and to some extent reaper is much stronger than all other classes right now. There is a reason we see double necro in every kitten game right now and it’s getting annoying. Or bettet yet, bring all other classes up to the same level.

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@"ZeroTheCat.2684" said:Honestly if anything needs a nerf it’s necro. Scourge and to some extent reaper is much stronger than all other classes right now. There is a reason we see double necro in every kitten game right now and it’s getting annoying. Or bettet yet, bring all other classes up to the same level.

https://imgur.com/a/Wa7lzai tell me something new...

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2 necros in every game - why is no one talking about this?Because necro gameplay contrary to mesmers and thief allow to facetank much damage so player can see high number on their screen so they are happy.Moreover it's a class who can be CCed easyli so player can lock them so they are happy.And nec aren't duellist so people can feel good 1v1 them, so they are happy.No matter that they were meta since launch an in every At, mAt and ladder.

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@viquing.8254 said:

2 necros in every game - why is no one talking about this?Because necro gameplay contrary to mesmers and thief allow to facetank much damage so player can see high number on their screen so they are happy.Moreover it's a class who can be CCed easyli so player can lock them so they are happy.And nec aren't duellist so people can feel good 1v1 them, so they are happy.No matter that they were meta since launch an in every At, mAt and ladder.

Some characters are better at certain things than others.Would you use boon corruption on scales and drakes? Or does it make more sense to use it on an enemy player that is dispensing boons for you to corrupt?

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:No one complains because unsupported necros are food. We want them on the enemy team.

I was going to say something similar...Unsupported necro is next to useless against a team that can focus.

Unsupported against the whole enemy team, yes! No class is supposed to take on the whole enemy team by themselves. 1v1 and 1v2 necro is really strong and has plenty of self sustain. No other class has the same amount of damage/tankiness/cc combined. All other classes have to give up something. I have stopped playing some classes all together because it's no point vs this "meta". You can't do shit basically.. Try play, for instance a warrior, against double scourge and/or a reaper. I rather play solo against 5 mesmers ffs. Necro is the first thing they need to look at when swinging the nerf bat. This is just silly at this point.

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:No one complains because unsupported necros are food. We want them on the enemy team.

I was going to say something similar...Unsupported necro is next to useless against a team that can focus.

Unsupported against the whole enemy team, yes! No class is supposed to take on the whole enemy team by themselves. 1v1 and 1v2 necro is really strong and has plenty of self sustain. No other class has the same amount of damage/tankiness/cc combined. All other classes have to give up something. I have stopped playing some classes all together because it's no point vs this "meta". You can't do kitten basically.. Try play, for instance a warrior, against double scourge and/or a reaper. I rather play solo against 5 mesmers kitten. Necro is the first thing they need to look at when swinging the nerf bat. This is just silly at this point.

You need to learn more about the game. Your information is very wrong.

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:No one complains because unsupported necros are food. We want them on the enemy team.

I was going to say something similar...Unsupported necro is next to useless against a team that can focus.

Unsupported against the whole enemy team, yes! No class is supposed to take on the whole enemy team by themselves. 1v1 and 1v2 necro is really strong and has plenty of self sustain. No other class has the same amount of damage/tankiness/cc combined. All other classes have to give up something. I have stopped playing some classes all together because it's no point vs this "meta". You can't do kitten basically.. Try play, for instance a warrior, against double scourge and/or a reaper. I rather play solo against 5 mesmers kitten. Necro is the first thing they need to look at when swinging the nerf bat. This is just silly at this point.

You shouldnt be trying to solo 2 scourges or 2 reapers on War unless you know you can spike 1 really quick. Usually with reapers too you gotta wait till they come out of shroud.

End of the day it comes down to player skill, a skilled plat nec could probably easily kill 3 silver people on his own but my opinion is coming from players at the same skill level..

I said this in the rev thread too but dying in a 2v1 is not a good reason to nerf anything.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:No one complains because unsupported necros are food. We want them on the enemy team.

I was going to say something similar...Unsupported necro is next to useless against a team that can focus.

Unsupported against the whole enemy team, yes! No class is supposed to take on the whole enemy team by themselves. 1v1 and 1v2 necro is really strong and has plenty of self sustain. No other class has the same amount of damage/tankiness/cc combined. All other classes have to give up something. I have stopped playing some classes all together because it's no point vs this "meta". You can't do kitten basically.. Try play, for instance a warrior, against double scourge and/or a reaper. I rather play solo against 5 mesmers kitten. Necro is the first thing they need to look at when swinging the nerf bat. This is just silly at this point.

You shouldnt be trying to solo 2 scourges or 2 reapers on War unless you know you can spike 1 really quick. Usually with reapers too you gotta wait till they come out of shroud.

End of the day it comes down to player skill, a skilled plat nec could probably easily kill 3 silver people on his own but my opinion is coming from players at the same skill level..

I said this in the rev thread too but dying in a 2v1 is not a good reason to nerf anything.

You misunderstood. I don’t 1vs 2 against necros. What I meant was that against a team with double scourge + mesmer/reaper a warrior is pretty useless. I always pick another class if I face a team comp like that. Warrior is just one example of one of the classes that seems to be falling out of meta right now.

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You're not going to find any support here.

1) Necro is an extremely popular profession. There is no end to the number of people that will defend Necro when its overperforming.2) Long-time Necro mains have PTSD from not getting invited to dungeons 4+ years ago. So, even a whisper of a nerf sends them into panic.3) Most people judge a class by its dueling potential. Since Necromancers almost never build for dueling, most people are left with the impression that Necro is a "free lunch".
4) Necro is (and has almost always been) a meta-defining asset in PvP and WvW. The natural response is to endlessly nerf the professions that counter it (obviously).

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There is too much boons flying around and the best at removing boons is the necro, also both elites are easy to play cause they are straightforward, there is only one condition to win at their job in the teamfight Survive.Scourge is busted by design though little bit too passive in applying pressure in my press a button giant circles pulse to kill, you could be stunned but who cares still doing your job. Reaper might have big damage but is horribly slow on every other department and has trouble with being cced is not so strong at the same time is countered by Scourge. The only viable teamfight carry that i could think of has to be ranged aoe, so gs berserker, DH and holo are out leaving staff Ele???? meme build. So you are left with multiple scourge players since scourge is the best teamfight carry, because it removes boons with aoe has large soft and hard cc, has area denial cc and has pulsing area damage. If they redesign it to be the support that it was supposed to be, cool but till then you gona see multiple scourge mains and some weirdos playing reaper even though it is clearly the sub par elite, it is enjoyable to play.

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Necro has the largest distinction between its professions. They share no weapons and very few similar traits. Lets make a distinction between reaper and scourge.

Reaper are very popular because of the large hp pool. However, they are underpowered due to their numerous drawbacks. Almost any dps can out duel them, they have no invuln or evade, they have very few stun breaks or stab skills, and their attacks are very heavily choreographed. However, they are the best cleave profession, have great burst in shroud and are very good at punishing groups trying to focus another player. They can also be situational counters to memers as the cleave mitigates illusions and can hit invis.

Scourge are one of the last remaining condi classes viable. Similar lack of stab and stun breaks to reaper, but they have some ability to pressure when cc'd due to the ability to use F skills when cc'd. Even less mobility than reaper, still no evades, invis, or invuln, and one of the fairer classes in the game. The only class in the game that relies on the non-damaging conditions in the game as much as the damaging ones. Huge glaring weaknesses and not that hard to counter, but more popular recently as the meta shifted to power classes. Less people bringing mass condi clear means scourge do well. Core guard used to be one of the best counters to scourge, but Anet completely killed any dps guard builds with the RI and Glacial Heart nerfs.

The meta shift made scourge more popular, but reaper has always been a pet favorite of a lot of people. That being said, i would rather have almost ANY other meta class besides reapers on my team. Scourges at least provide some team support with barriers and boon strip. Reaper are completely selfish and don't perform roles that other classes don't already do as well or better.

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@Zephoid.4263 said:Necro has the largest distinction between its professions. They share no weapons and very few similar traits. Lets make a distinction between reaper and scourge.

Reaper are very popular because of the large hp pool. However, they are underpowered due to their numerous drawbacks. Almost any dps can out duel them, they have no invuln or evade, they have very few stun breaks or stab skills, and their attacks are very heavily choreographed. However, they are the best cleave profession, have great burst in shroud and are very good at punishing groups trying to focus another player. They can also be situational counters to memers as the cleave mitigates illusions and can hit invis.

Scourge are one of the last remaining condi classes viable. Similar lack of stab and stun breaks to reaper, but they have some ability to pressure when cc'd due to the ability to use F skills when cc'd. Even less mobility than reaper, still no evades, invis, or invuln, and one of the fairer classes in the game. The only class in the game that relies on the non-damaging conditions in the game as much as the damaging ones. Huge glaring weaknesses and not that hard to counter, but more popular recently as the meta shifted to power classes. Less people bringing mass condi clear means scourge do well. Core guard used to be one of the best counters to scourge, but Anet completely killed any dps guard builds with the RI and Glacial Heart nerfs.

The meta shift made scourge more popular, but reaper has always been a pet favorite of a lot of people. That being said, i would rather have almost ANY other meta class besides reapers on my team. Scourges at least provide some team support with barriers and boon strip. Reaper are completely selfish and don't perform roles that other classes don't already do as well or better.That is what makes scourge push off every other teamfighter it is multipurpose build that needs just little help, while the rest are like reaper selfish big damage cleave and have single purpose to do damage. Scourge is just better cause it can support , remove power and do damage at the same time. This is a problem i've seen in other games where you have the hybrid that can heal do as much damage as the damage dealers so they have no point in existing. Why would you pick something that does one thing while something else does it while doing multiple other things.

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Scourge and Reaper being the strongest? lol?

For starters, Scourge's big advantages are condi-pressure, team support, and... yeah, that's about it. It excels in those areas, and it's definitely a must-have for team fights, but other than that, it still lags behind the notorious over-tuned classes (you know, Holosmith, Scrapper, Spellbreaker, Herald, and hell, even Mirage). Take Scourge to a 1v1 and any of those classes will beat them to a pulp without much of a struggle. Why? Necro's overall self-sustain is rather poor, and its mobility is non-existent - no matter the e-spec. They easily die to any combo of condi-pressure / stun-lock / direct damage.

If we want to be honest, Scourge (and Reaper too - which has similar weaknesses and strengths) are probably the best-balanced classes in the game right now. It's a beast in team-fights, but if they are alone, they can be taken down easily, and if the team is poorly composed or underperforming, there is little they can do to carry.

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@Adamixos.6785 said:Scourge and Reaper being the strongest? lol?

For starters, Scourge's big advantages are condi-pressure, team support, and... yeah, that's about it. It excels in those areas, and it's definitely a must-have for team fights, but other than that, it still lags behind the notorious over-tuned classes (you know, Holosmith, Scrapper, Spellbreaker, Herald, and hell, even Mirage). Take Scourge to a 1v1 and any of those classes will beat them to a pulp without much of a struggle. Why? Necro's overall self-sustain is rather poor, and its mobility is non-existent - no matter the e-spec. They easily die to any combo of condi-pressure / stun-lock / direct damage.

If we want to be honest, Scourge (and Reaper too - which has similar weaknesses and strengths) are probably the best-balanced classes in the game right now. It's a beast in team-fights, but if they are alone, they can be taken down easily, and if the team is poorly composed or underperforming, there is little they can do to carry.

Haha this is so biased I actually laughed while reading this. I can’t even tanke you seriously. Die easily.. hahaha nice one. Your main is a necro I presume?

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Scourge is op or seems OP due to its synergy with fb, alone it is not OP. Scourge is also crazy effective in wvw due to those same synergies as well as how well its mechanic function within a game mode like wvw as it has the most presence along side fb in zergs. I can understand how newish players or lower rank players could view Reaper as OP due to its burst potential giving it the ability to annihilate players that are unaware of how to fight them but to experienced players reaper is not op but one of the more balanced classes. Their shroud doesnt last long under pressure, their shroud is usually easily baited and avoided. Reapers can be easily kited by most classes and outa shroud they have little defenses.I mean no disrespect but this seems like the perfect example of the common OP complaint noob stomp classes get often due to their ability to destroy new players easily.

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Adamixos.6785 said:Scourge and Reaper being the strongest? lol?

For starters, Scourge's big advantages are condi-pressure, team support, and... yeah, that's about it. It excels in those areas, and it's definitely a must-have for team fights, but other than that, it still lags behind the notorious over-tuned classes (you know, Holosmith, Scrapper, Spellbreaker, Herald, and hell, even Mirage). Take Scourge to a 1v1 and any of those classes will beat them to a pulp without much of a struggle. Why? Necro's overall self-sustain is rather poor, and its mobility is non-existent - no matter the e-spec. They easily die to any combo of condi-pressure / stun-lock / direct damage.

If we want to be honest, Scourge (and Reaper too - which has similar weaknesses and strengths) are probably the best-balanced classes in the game right now. It's a beast in team-fights, but if they are alone, they can be taken down easily, and if the team is poorly composed or underperforming, there is little they can do to carry.

Haha this is so biased I actually laughed while reading this. I can’t even tanke you seriously. Die easily.. hahaha nice one. Your main is a necro I presume?

lol.

Anyway, you are wrong on both counts.

Ad1) I actually main Guardian.

Ad2) There is nothing biased about it. If you take the class and actually play it yourself (in leagues above silver, too), you will see what I am talking about. You can laugh as much as you want, but fact is, Necro is one of the very few classes right now that functions exactly as intended, both conceptually and balance-wise. As I've said, it has very clearly defined up- and downsides, and that is something you can't tell about half of the professions as of the current meta. When I played Radiant GS core guard, I could take about 80% of the Scourges I've met in 1v1, and as a Scourge, I struggle most when I get in 1v1s with SpBs, Mirages, and Heralds. Frankly, the only time Scourge really feels all-powerful (perhaps OP, too) is when there is a decent Support or Hybrid FB to back me up.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Scourge is op or seems OP due to its synergy with fb, alone it is not OP. Scourge is also crazy effective in wvw due to those same synergies as well as how well its mechanic function within a game mode like wvw as it has the most presence along side fb in zergs. I can understand how newish players or lower rank players could view Reaper as OP due to its burst potential giving it the ability to annihilate players that are unaware of how to fight them but to experienced players reaper is not op but one of the more balanced classes. Their shroud doesnt last long under pressure, their shroud is usually easily baited and avoided. Reapers can be easily kited by most classes and outa shroud they have little defenses.I mean no disrespect but this seems like the perfect example of the common OP complaint noob stomp classes get often due to their ability to destroy new players easily.

Reaper mains are taking Rune of Speed so they can catch kiting classes lmao. They don't need to dip into a damage rune when all of it's is front-loaded in their shroud. So actually, Reaper is still not OP, but it is fairly strong when a single rune can replace one of their most notable weakness: being incredibly slow.

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That is what makes scourge push off every other teamfighter it is multipurpose build that needs just little help, while the rest are like reaper selfish big damage cleave and have single purpose to do damage. Scourge is just better cause it can support , remove power and do damage at the same time. This is a problem i've seen in other games where you have the hybrid that can heal do as much damage as the damage dealers so they have no point in existing. Why would you pick something that does one thing while something else does it while doing multiple other things.

What other healer build has been viable in the history of this game? Druids and tempest healers have been awful in pvp forever. Its been fb and scourge. Who would actually fill the void of scourge if it wasn't there? Chrono? Boon thief? Alacrigade? What other support builds are there for this slot? None of them are viable even without scourge.

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@Zephoid.4263 said:

That is what makes scourge push off every other teamfighter it is multipurpose build that needs just little help, while the rest are like reaper selfish big damage cleave and have single purpose to do damage. Scourge is just better cause it can support , remove power and do damage at the same time. This is a problem i've seen in other games where you have the hybrid that can heal do as much damage as the damage dealers so they have no point in existing. Why would you pick something that does one thing while something else does it while doing multiple other things.

What other healer build has been viable in the history of this game? Druids and tempest healers have been awful in pvp forever. Its been fb and scourge. Who would actually fill the void of scourge if it wasn't there? Chrono? Boon thief? Alacrigade? What other support builds are there for this slot? None of them are viable even without scourge.

Tempest/Reaper was the default. Scrapper heals are the biggest in the game. Ventari Rev also heals for a lot. Scourge is the main reason a lot of builds are not played. Scourge should have been support from the get go with corrupt pressure and barrier/heals but no damage or damage but no access to the big corrupts and heals. Now it is the nightmare that ruins WvW and it is staple for spvp. Berserker, holo, staff ele even DH could be considered great team fight carry with the need of support.

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