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2 necros in every game - why is no one talking about this?


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@Adamixos.6785 said:

@Adamixos.6785 said:Scourge and Reaper being the strongest? lol?

For starters, Scourge's big advantages are condi-pressure, team support, and... yeah, that's about it. It excels in those areas, and it's definitely a must-have for team fights, but other than that, it still lags behind the notorious over-tuned classes (you know, Holosmith, Scrapper, Spellbreaker, Herald, and hell, even Mirage). Take Scourge to a 1v1 and any of those classes will beat them to a pulp without much of a struggle. Why? Necro's overall self-sustain is rather poor, and its mobility is non-existent - no matter the e-spec. They easily die to any combo of condi-pressure / stun-lock / direct damage.

If we want to be honest, Scourge (and Reaper too - which has similar weaknesses and strengths) are probably the best-balanced classes in the game right now. It's a beast in team-fights, but if they are alone, they can be taken down easily, and if the team is poorly composed or underperforming, there is little they can do to carry.

Haha this is so biased I actually laughed while reading this. I can’t even tanke you seriously. Die easily.. hahaha nice one. Your main is a necro I presume?

lol.

Anyway, you are wrong on both counts.

Ad1) I actually main Guardian.

Ad2) There is nothing biased about it. If you take the class and actually play it yourself (in leagues above silver, too), you will see what I am talking about. You can laugh as much as you want, but fact is, Necro is one of the very few classes right now that functions exactly as intended, both conceptually and balance-wise. As I've said, it has very clearly defined up- and downsides, and that is something you can't tell about half of the professions as of the current meta. When I played Radiant GS core guard, I could take about 80% of the Scourges I've met in 1v1, and as a Scourge, I struggle most when I get in 1v1s with SpBs, Mirages, and Heralds. Frankly, the only time Scourge really feels all-powerful (perhaps OP, too) is when there is a decent Support or Hybrid FB to back me up.

I do play it. Above silver even. It’s my third most played class but the one with the highest win rate. Whatever that has to do with anything. So you have one build that could beat scourge and that is your reasoning for it not being OP.. That logic is just flawed. If you struggle against SpBs as a scourge you are doing it wrong btw. You sure you are above silver?

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:No one complains because unsupported necros are food. We want them on the enemy team.

I was going to say something similar...Unsupported necro is next to useless against a team that can focus.

Unsupported against the whole enemy team, yes! No class is supposed to take on the whole enemy team by themselves. 1v1 and 1v2 necro is really strong and has plenty of self sustain. No other class has the same amount of damage/tankiness/cc combined. All other classes have to give up something. I have stopped playing some classes all together because it's no point vs this "meta". You can't do kitten basically.. Try play, for instance a warrior, against double scourge and/or a reaper. I rather play solo against 5 mesmers kitten. Necro is the first thing they need to look at when swinging the nerf bat. This is just silly at this point.

You shouldnt be trying to solo 2 scourges or 2 reapers on War unless you know you can spike 1 really quick. Usually with reapers too you gotta wait till they come out of shroud.

End of the day it comes down to player skill, a skilled plat nec could probably easily kill 3 silver people on his own but my opinion is coming from players at the same skill level..

I said this in the rev thread too but dying in a 2v1 is not a good reason to nerf anything.

You misunderstood. I don’t 1vs 2 against necros. What I meant was that against a team with double scourge + mesmer/reaper a warrior is pretty useless. I always pick another class if I face a team comp like that. Warrior is just one example of one of the classes that seems to be falling out of meta right now.

Yea I misunderstood... when you said you 1v2, I thought you meant you 1v2

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Game is about conquest and cap points, not 1v1s. What do you expect will happen when a build has decent sustain and can poop a point.If supported stuff like this is how you win team fights.

For conquest I don't think that's overpowered though, it's meta defining but so long as it doesn't carry team fights alone(unsupported) it's fair.

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Not sure what rating you are playing at to see two Necros in every match, because having two Necros is a pretty terrible idea as you are going to get out rotated all game for a pretty sure loss.

If you actually see 2 Necros in enemy teams a lot, just avoid teamfights and go for decaps and rotate around them.If the Necros try to rotate at their snail pace, ambush them for an easy kill, cap and win. If they don't, cap and win.

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Tempest/Reaper was the default. Scrapper heals are the biggest in the game. Ventari Rev also heals for a lot. Scourge is the main reason a lot of builds are not played. Scourge should have been support from the get go with corrupt pressure and barrier/heals but no damage or damage but no access to the big corrupts and heals. Now it is the nightmare that ruins WvW and it is staple for spvp. Berserker, holo, staff ele even DH could be considered great team fight carry with the need of support.

Tempest never has or will be good in pvp. You don't compete against scourge, you compete against firebrand. Firebrand has better condi cleanse, every boon except alac, and a ton of stab share. And is heavy armor to boot.

Ventari rev heals a lot, but has mobility problems and doesn't provide many boons. Quick>>>> alac in pvp, so again, firebrand is more desired.

Heal scrapper gives almost no buffs. Again, competing with firebrand.

Scourge isn't the problem. Firebrand is. However, nerfing firebrand just makes NO support better than any of the above choices. None of the classes you mentioned are at the level they need to be to be competitive choices.

Capping points may be the goal of the game, but if you die, they get the point. You have 5 people, 3 caps. Therefore, there will be 1v1 and they will define a large portion of the game. So 1v1 is VERY important.

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again another post on 2 of the same class on ranked, doesn't look like Anet is even reading them

same response as I had multiple times, https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/962944i would very much prefer to see a hard cap on a single class per team (we have 9 classes to chose from) for ranked pvpunranked have no limit, and AT can have up to 2 of the same class (so there are room for other classes)

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Because the only way necromancer is any threat at all is if they're using reaper and/or scourge and there are two of them and/or they have backup, or the rare instance of them having full lifeforce entering a fight. Otherwise, they're almost a free kill, since most that know about them know to focus them immediately, and because their flaws outweigh their strengths now, yet again, just like it was before the specializations even came out. Even compared to the other cloth armor wearers, they lose in almost every way. Mobility? Barely any. Stability and CC resist? Same thing. Sustain? Only with full lifeforce on base or reaper, and even that will melt when focused, as already mentioned. Only thing they have is conditions, and Mirage can outdo them there in some aspects, so...necromancers need some buffing, actually, so they're not useless without someone holding their hand.

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@Nilkemia.8507 said:Because the only way necromancer is any threat at all is if they're using reaper and/or scourge and there are two of them and/or they have backup, or the rare instance of them having full lifeforce entering a fight. Otherwise, they're almost a free kill, since most that know about them know to focus them immediately, and because their flaws outweigh their strengths now, yet again, just like it was before the specializations even came out. Even compared to the other cloth armor wearers, they lose in almost every way. Mobility? Barely any. Stability and CC resist? Same thing. Sustain? Only with full lifeforce on base or reaper, and even that will melt when focused, as already mentioned. Only thing they have is conditions, and Mirage can outdo them there in some aspects, so...necromancers need some buffing, actually, so they're not useless without someone holding their hand.

lol there are so many other classes that need buffing before necro. Basically all of them. Even mesmer need a buff before necro does.

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Reaper is like the teams guard dog u see the red and set the dog loose and it goes mental and attacks and chases everyone down. It gets u by the balls and kills u or u put it down before it does.But one thing is clear it helps the team because moment you show your face the whole red team have their tails up and you take their focus and that helps your team even if it’s for a little bit.u support your team by being very aggressive, focus smart and mobile! U get in a thf /rev mindset and run around like the lone stray attacking everyone. Reaper is bae

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Adamixos.6785 said:Scourge and Reaper being the strongest? lol?

For starters, Scourge's big advantages are condi-pressure, team support, and... yeah, that's about it. It excels in those areas, and it's definitely a must-have for team fights, but other than that, it still lags behind the notorious over-tuned classes (you know, Holosmith, Scrapper, Spellbreaker, Herald, and hell, even Mirage). Take Scourge to a 1v1 and any of those classes will beat them to a pulp without much of a struggle. Why? Necro's overall self-sustain is rather poor, and its mobility is non-existent - no matter the e-spec. They easily die to any combo of condi-pressure / stun-lock / direct damage.

If we want to be honest, Scourge (and Reaper too - which has similar weaknesses and strengths) are probably the best-balanced classes in the game right now. It's a beast in team-fights, but if they are alone, they can be taken down easily, and if the team is poorly composed or underperforming, there is little they can do to carry.

Haha this is so biased I actually laughed while reading this. I can’t even tanke you seriously. Die easily.. hahaha nice one. Your main is a necro I presume?

lol.

Anyway, you are wrong on both counts.

Ad1) I actually main Guardian.

Ad2) There is nothing biased about it. If you take the class and actually play it yourself (in leagues above silver, too), you will see what I am talking about. You can laugh as much as you want, but fact is, Necro is one of the very few classes right now that functions exactly as intended, both conceptually and balance-wise. As I've said, it has very clearly defined up- and downsides, and that is something you can't tell about half of the professions as of the current meta. When I played Radiant GS core guard, I could take about 80% of the Scourges I've met in 1v1, and as a Scourge, I struggle most when I get in 1v1s with SpBs, Mirages, and Heralds. Frankly, the only time Scourge really feels all-powerful (perhaps OP, too) is when there is a decent Support or Hybrid FB to back me up.

I do play it. Above silver even. It’s my third most played class but the one with the highest win rate. Whatever that has to do with anything. So you have one build that could beat scourge and that is your reasoning for it not being OP.. That logic is just flawed. If you struggle against SpBs as a scourge you are doing it wrong btw.

A lot of builds can beat scourge in 1v1, that is my point, and the reason I've mentioned core guard is because it's considered to be on the weaker side of the spectrum. As for SpB's - they are specifically built for facetanking the hell out of their opponents. But of course, that could be because I have met some excellent SpBs in ranked.

You sure you are above silver?

Again, lol.

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@gateless gate.8406 said:Scourge has no invuln/block, very little mobility/blink, and very little stability (sometimes none). CC and murder. Or just murder.

CC? Doesn’t matter if a scourge is stunned or knocked down, they can still activate their circles of doom which melts everything in range. Not a valid argument..

Melts? That's a complete exaggeration. Scourges are dangerous, but they are arguably the most easily killed of the meta specs.

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:No one complains because unsupported necros are food. We want them on the enemy team.

I was going to say something similar...Unsupported necro is next to useless against a team that can focus.

Unsupported against the whole enemy team, yes! No class is supposed to take on the whole enemy team by themselves. 1v1 and 1v2 necro is really strong and has plenty of self sustain. No other class has the same amount of damage/tankiness/cc combined. All other classes have to give up something. I have stopped playing some classes all together because it's no point vs this "meta". You can't do kitten basically.. Try play, for instance a warrior, against double scourge and/or a reaper. I rather play solo against 5 mesmers kitten. Necro is the first thing they need to look at when swinging the nerf bat. This is just silly at this point.

Do you even scrapper, FB or warrior bro?

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@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Honestly if anything needs a nerf it’s necro. Scourge and to some extent reaper is much stronger than all other classes right now. There is a reason we see double necro in every kitten game right now and it’s getting annoying. Or bettet yet, bring all other classes up to the same level.

Maybe because necro is glorified kitten? :D you find fighting against necro to be problematic? :D Whenever i play my guardian, herald, daredevil or even CONDITION BOW SPELLBREAKER - i simply ignore necromancers, because reaper can't even touch me without shroud and scourge is just a joke.Every single time i was in a team with two necros - we lost the game. Every time i played against a team with two necros - we won with at least 2 times point difference.

Are you serious complaining about the worst class in the game? :D please, confirm that you are serious. This is comedy gold.

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Honestly if anything needs a nerf it’s necro. Scourge and to some extent reaper is much stronger than all other classes right now. There is a reason we see double necro in every kitten game right now and it’s getting annoying. Or bettet yet, bring all other classes up to the same level.

Maybe because necro is glorified kitten? :D you find fighting against necro to be problematic? :D Whenever i play my guardian, herald, daredevil or even CONDITION BOW SPELLBREAKER - i simply ignore necromancers, because reaper can't even touch me without shroud and scourge is just a joke.Every single time i was in a team with two necros - we lost the game. Every time i played against a team with two necros - we won with at least 2 times point difference.

Are you serious complaining about the worst class in the game? :D please, confirm that you are serious. This is comedy gold.

Worst class.. that has been defining the meta for god knows how long and is appering x2 or x3 in basically every game right now. Dude, just stop trolling.

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@"Mikkel.8427" said:You're not going to find any support here.

1) Necro is an extremely popular profession. There is no end to the number of people that will defend Necro when its overperforming.2) Long-time Necro mains have PTSD from not getting invited to dungeons 4+ years ago. So, even a whisper of a nerf sends them into panic.3) Most people judge a class by its dueling potential. Since Necromancers almost never build for dueling, most people are left with the impression that Necro is a "free lunch".

4) Necro is (and has almost always been) a meta-defining asset in PvP and WvW. The natural response is to endlessly nerf the professions that counter it (obviously).So much this

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@"ZeroTheCat.2684" said:Worst class.. that has been defining the meta for god knows how long and is appering x2 or x3 in basically every game right now. Dude, just stop trolling.

Ok, lets review what other class and necro don't have:1) Self-boon application. Other classes like holosmith, scrapper, any mesmer, etc - can apply way more boons on themselves and their boon application is way more reliable;2) Support via boons. Only scourge have it, and then it can't barely add any boons on team. Now compare that to herald, firebrand or any other decent support;3) Self-healing. Almost all other classes have better self-healing than reaper. Even scourge pales in comparison to classes like scrapper, holosmith, spellbreaker, herald, etc;4) Team-healing. Only scourge have, but even at that tempest, firebrand and even druid are better than scourge;5) Single-target direct damage. Only repeat have that, but majority of other classes can do way more damage than reaper;6) Multi-target direct damage. Necro have none of that;7) Single-target condition damage. Necro fall behind meta condition builds in that. Mirage, condition thief, burn guardian - all of these do more single target condition damage;8) Multi-target condition damage. Reaper have nearly none of that. Scourge the best or second best in this area of the PVP;9) Evades. Even warrior have more of them. Neither scourge nor reaper have reliable evades (excluding basic dodge every other class have);10) Block. Necro have none, it just don't have any means to block any damage;11) CC. Very limited and mostly works around fear. Every single other class have better options for CC. Every. single. one;12) Boon removal - necro is the best one in the game. However, it works mostly for condition builds;13) HP - necro have the largest health-pool when you factor in life-force, but you need to charge life force and you need to enter shroud for both access extra health to survive and to deal damage, because both core necro and reaper deal nearly no damage outside of shroud;14) Mobility - every single other class have better mobility than necro. There is no class with worse mobility.

Could please specify how necro is meta defining and " Scourge and to some extent reaper is much stronger than all other classes right now"? I can't stop laughing about those claims.

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