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So my friend recently sold on the tp 44 dragon coffers, they didn't press any number keys and they sold for 2 copper each. They know how to sell on the TP. They should have been sold for the lowest order price which as we all know is a whole lot higher. So my friend put in a ticket, the response was that they listed them for 2 copper so there is nothing ANET can do about it.However if you go and test it. I used candy corn, i sold 44 candy corn i put in for 2 copper, and they system defaults to the highest order price. I even clicked the sell while it was still reading 2 copper and it wouldn't budge off the highest order price so i got 16 silver back after fees. So how the heck does my friends dragon coffers still sell for 2 copper each when the system prevents that?

So whose fault is it? From my testing it's ANET's fault and they should be doing something about it. But instead they'd rather play the blame game and say it's your fault for listing for 2 copper. Afterall if the system won't allow you to sell an item lower then the highest order price doesn't seem fair to make someone lose out on gold.

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ok, maybe that's what happened then. I remember them saying TP was loading slow so they closed it out but then it said sold successful. They're an aussie player and we all know they have higher ping then the rest of us NA players. Still shouldn't be able to sell though without the listing going up. I know i told them to speak to higher up with their ticket because what if the item was something worth 1k-2k gold and this type of bug happened. Would make players quit with how unhelpful they seem to be at times.

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It's not exactly ANet's fault; it's not exactly the player's fault. The short story is: never sell or buy quickly; always wait for the screen to fully refresh, even if it's annoys the skritt out of you.

(I'm really sorry about what happened to the seller. I just don't see that there's a good solution for them.)


There's a combination of mechanics and latency synergize to create an issue that neither one alone would.The game allows you to set any price on an item, so that we're never selling for less than we accept, never buying for more. The game can't know what's already in the queue until that data is populated from the API.

The game also defaults to an "instant sell" (or "instant buy") value. And without data from the queue, the lowest price for the coffers is copper.

Back in the old days, people used to try to bypass the TP fees by setting a super low price. The game would sell to the highest buy offer in the queue anyhow and the "tax evader" would pay fees on the lower price. For example, you could list an item at 1 silver, even though its highest buy offer was 1000 gold. The fee would be 15 copper, so you'd basically walk away with 1000 gold instead of 850 gold. When they fixed this, instead of preventing under-listing, they allow people to do, and have the TP accept the lower offer. So the person with the 1000g buy offer gets the item for 1 silver, you get 85 copper (and their 1000g is refunded, save the 1s).

Neither of these by itself is a problem. In the third case, people trying to pull one over on Gnashblade get instant karma. In the first, the game is just slow to populate the numbers, a latency that ANet doesn't seem to be able to fix easily (it's been in the game since launch, although it got especially bad starting about 8 months ago). And for the second, the game is just trying to help the majority do what they want: a quick transaction.

Combine the two, and you get what the OP described:

  • They tried to sell quickly
  • The game accepted the price of 2c
  • They pressed "sell" without noticing.
  • The game executed the request as submitted.

The reason ANet cannot "refund" anything is that... the transaction went as it was supposed, even if it wasn't want the player meant to do. They can't take back the coffers from the buyer and give them back the coin, because it wouldn't be fair to the other player (who might have since opened the coffers or spent the money). They can't give the seller coin (or coffers), because that would be bad for the economy overall.


The "correct" solution is for ANet to figure out why the TP lags so much and fix that. Given that they've never managed that, the next-best solutions are all ugly. They could slow down clicking by introducing another screen, or: slow down the transaction by adding an outgoing queue that we could edit, or: stop auto-filling any of the sell or buy fields, or: etc etc Any of which slows us down.

Alternatively, we can just remember to wait for the data to fully appear before pressing the submit button. The way I do this is to always make custom offers, that way I have to manually review the numbers. Both of these are also slower, with the difference being they are within our control to do now.

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I've actually had the TP change from the price I've chosen to the highest buy order before right as I clicked "sell" with me not changing it. Granted, it has only happened twice, and for items worth only about 30s, but both times I waited to see the current buy/sell prices, manually typed in the price I wanted, and right as I clicked "sell", the cursor jumped back to the left to the highest buy order and sold it. So yes, it is possible that the TP bugged on them.

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:It's not exactly ANet's fault; it's not exactly the player's fault. The short story is: never sell or buy quickly; always wait for the screen to fully refresh, even if it's annoys the skritt out of you.

(I'm really sorry about what happened to the seller. I just don't see that there's a good solution for them.)


There's a combination of mechanics and latency synergize to create an issue that neither one alone would.The game allows you to set any price on an item, so that we're never selling for less than we accept, never buying for more. The game can't know what's already in the queue until that data is populated from the API.

The game also defaults to an "instant sell" (or "instant buy") value. And without data from the queue, the lowest price for the coffers is copper.

Back in the old days, people used to try to bypass the TP fees by setting a super low price. The game would sell to the highest buy offer in the queue anyhow and the "tax evader" would pay fees on the lower price. For example, you could list an item at 1 silver, even though its highest buy offer was 1000 gold. The fee would be 15 copper, so you'd basically walk away with 1000 gold instead of 850 gold. When they fixed this, instead of preventing under-listing, they allow people to do, and have the TP accept the lower offer. So the person with the 1000g buy offer gets the item for 1 silver, you get 85 copper (and their 1000g is refunded, save the 1s).

Neither of these by itself is a problem. In the third case, people trying to pull one over on Gnashblade get instant karma. In the first, the game is just slow to populate the numbers, a latency that ANet doesn't seem to be able to fix easily (it's been in the game since launch, although it got especially bad starting about 8 months ago). And for the second, the game is just trying to help the majority do what they want: a quick transaction.

Combine the two, and you get what the OP described:

  • They tried to sell quickly
  • The game accepted the price of 2c
  • They pressed "sell" without noticing.
  • The game executed the request as submitted.

The reason ANet cannot "refund" anything is that... the transaction went as it was supposed, even if it wasn't want the player meant to do. They can't take back the coffers from the buyer and give them back the coin, because it wouldn't be fair to the other player (who might have since opened the coffers or spent the money). They can't give the seller coin (or coffers), because that would be bad for the economy overall.


The "correct" solution is for ANet to figure out why the TP lags so much and fix that. Given that they've never managed that, the next-best solutions are all ugly. They could slow down clicking by introducing another screen, or: slow down the transaction by adding an outgoing queue that we could edit, or: stop auto-filling any of the sell or buy fields, or: etc etc Any of which slows us down.

Alternatively, we can just remember to wait for the data to fully appear before pressing the submit button. The way I do this is to always make custom offers, that way I have to manually review the numbers. Both of these are also slower, with the difference being they are within our control to do now.

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@"Ubi.4136" said:I've actually had the TP change from the price I've chosen to the highest buy order before right as I clicked "sell" with me not changing it. Granted, it has only happened twice, and for items worth only about 30s, but both times I waited to see the current buy/sell prices, manually typed in the price I wanted, and right as I clicked "sell", the cursor jumped back to the left to the highest buy order and sold it. So yes, it is possible that the TP bugged on them.

If the cursor moved, that's a different problem, probably mechanical. I encourage you to use the /bug reporting tool immediately, should it happen again. Then, if you have time, follow up with a support ticket. It's possible there's something you or they can do to prevent it from happening again.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Ubi.4136" said:I've actually had the TP change from the price I've chosen to the highest buy order before right as I clicked "sell" with me not changing it. Granted, it has only happened twice, and for items worth only about 30s, but both times I waited to see the current buy/sell prices, manually typed in the price I wanted, and right as I clicked "sell", the cursor jumped back to the left to the highest buy order and sold it. So yes, it is possible that the TP bugged on them.

If the cursor moved, that's a different problem, probably mechanical. I encourage you to use the /bug reporting tool immediately, should it happen again. Then, if you have time, follow up with a support ticket. It's possible there's something you or they can do to prevent it from happening again.

I did both times. Hasn't happened this year yet at all, both times happened last year, summer and again before Halloween.

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@Odin the exiled.5764 said:So my friend recently sold on the tp 44 dragon coffers, they didn't press any number keys and they sold for 2 copper each. They know how to sell on the TP. They should have been sold for the lowest order price which as we all know is a whole lot higher. So my friend put in a ticket, the response was that they listed them for 2 copper so there is nothing ANET can do about it.However if you go and test it. I used candy corn, i sold 44 candy corn i put in for 2 copper, and they system defaults to the highest order price. I even clicked the sell while it was still reading 2 copper and it wouldn't budge off the highest order price so i got 16 silver back after fees. So how the heck does my friends dragon coffers still sell for 2 copper each when the system prevents that?

So whose fault is it? From my testing it's ANET's fault and they should be doing something about it. But instead they'd rather play the blame game and say it's your fault for listing for 2 copper. Afterall if the system won't allow you to sell an item lower then the highest order price doesn't seem fair to make someone lose out on gold.

Its anets fault, but they won't fix it.The only 'fix' is being patient and wait for all values to load before pressing sell.I once sold a gemstone worth a few gold for 2c..Didn't file a ticket, but was severely annoyed and shut down the game for that day

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@Khisanth.2948 said:It is obviously both.

It is ANet's fault for allowing the button to be clicked before the prices are loaded. Additionally the top buy order is a much more reasonable default than 2c.

It is the player's fault for clicking the button without paying attention to the price

The TP can't default to the top buy order in this situation, because it won't know what it is until the data has loaded. It's like saying someone pulling into a multistory carpark should head straight to a floor with a convenient space before driving around to find one - they can't know if there's a space on that floor until after they've looked around.

It is really annoying when this happens but there's a fairly simple fix for players - waiting until the TP has fully loaded before clicking sell. I admit I don't always do that, but when I don't it's because I'm selling a lot of low value items which I want out my inventory quickly and I don't mind if one sells for 2 copper instead of 1s 35c. If I'm selling anything valuable, or large amounts of stuff, I always wait for it to load for exactly this reason.

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@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:In this situation, who does the item go to? Does it get sold to the player with the highest order price, or the player whose order price is closest to 2 copper (which presumably is the one with the lowest order price)? And do they get the rest of their money back?

The transaction of items goes through, too the person with the highest bid order.The buyer receives the items, loses the money, but only 2c gets to the seller.Result is: (valuex0.85)-0.0002=n(gold) that disappears into the void, and that void connects to the mystic forge and all goes back to sea

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:In this situation, who does the item go to? Does it get sold to the player with the highest order price, or the player whose order price is closest to 2 copper (which presumably is the one with the lowest order price)? And do they get the rest of their money back?

The transaction of items goes through, too the person with the highest bid order.The buyer receives the items, loses the money, but only 2c gets to the seller.Result is: (valuex0.85)-0.0002=n(gold) that disappears into the void, and that void connects to the mystic forge and all goes back to sea

Interesting, thanks. In that case, it seems to me like this is a bug (or at least an oversight in the programming), and it should deliver the full amount of money to the seller.

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@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:In this situation, who does the item go to? Does it get sold to the player with the highest order price, or the player whose order price is closest to 2 copper (which presumably is the one with the lowest order price)? And do they get the rest of their money back?

The transaction of items goes through, too the person with the highest bid order.The buyer receives the items, loses the money, but only 2c gets to the seller.Result is: (valuex0.85)-0.0002=n(gold) that disappears into the void, and that void connects to the mystic forge and all goes back to sea

Interesting, thanks. In that case, it seems to me like this is a bug (or at least an oversight in the programming), and it should deliver the full amount of money to the seller.

Its not a bug, in the sense of the word, as the system is working as intended when, and if, it has fully loaded.Its more a design oversight that were are allowed to interact with the system before it has fully loaded. And that's something i advocate being changed.

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@Danikat.8537 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:It is obviously both.

It is ANet's fault for allowing the button to be clicked before the prices are loaded. Additionally the top buy order is a much more reasonable default than 2c.

It is the player's fault for clicking the button without paying attention to the price

The TP can't default to the top buy order in this situation, because it won't know what it is until the data has loaded. It's like saying someone pulling into a multistory carpark should head straight to a floor with a convenient space before driving around to find one - they can't know if there's a space on that floor until after they've looked around.

There are multiple ways it can be accomplished. Unfortunately 2/3 of the team that would be responsible for implementing that also got laid off ...

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@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:In this situation, who does the item go to? Does it get sold to the player with the highest order price, or the player whose order price is closest to 2 copper (which presumably is the one with the lowest order price)? And do they get the rest of their money back?

The transaction of items goes through, too the person with the highest bid order.The buyer receives the items, loses the money, but only 2c gets to the seller.Result is: (valuex0.85)-0.0002=n(gold) that disappears into the void, and that void connects to the mystic forge and all goes back to sea

Interesting, thanks. In that case, it seems to me like this is a bug (or at least an oversight in the programming), and it should deliver the full amount of money to the seller.

I think the difference is refunded to the buyer rather than disappear, but I'm not sure as it's never happened to me.

However, it should definitely not give the full buy order amount to the seller, as that would make underpricing a way to "have your cake and eat it too" by avoiding the sales tax. Read the reply by Illconcieved above: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/975735/#Comment_975735

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