State of Reaper on PvP

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Reapers are too strong for players that dies to them and too weak for players that die while playing them.

As expected when any semblance of skill expression is systematically removed from a class in the name of equalizing DPS with others.There was a point when the spec was perfect. Unfortunately, people refused to acknowledge damage isn't everything, and well, a lot of people are worse than they think and chalk it up to the whole class being bad rather than their build, skill, encounter, matchup, among other variables.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Augury of Death + YSIM! That's a heal every 13 to 16 seconds (depending whether you hit 1 oder 5 targets)!

Just for the case that you run Consume Conditions as your main heal: you are begging for sustain issues then, no matter how the rest of your build looks like.

I know you like YSIM(I like it too) but it’s inferior in every way to Consume Conditions...especially if you are running Onslaught.

YSIM’s cooldown benefits more when you are in shroud less often....if you are in shroud less often it means your not taking full advantage of the sustain offered by life force...so your logic on this is inherently flawed. If you use consume conditions, enter shroud and stay in shroud for 20 seconds, then you only have to wait 10 seconds for consume conditions to be off cooldown...which if used in this manner makes its effective cooldown only 10 seconds.

Your logic breaks with the fact that you can't stay in shroud for 20 seconds, you get 10 at best and if you get 20 they are not focusing you and you are winning, which means you don't need the heal. Consume is good for the cleanse not for the heal, Reaper is not killed from the damage, its killed from the cc and the most annoying cc in the game are the spam conditions.

Right so I did say this already that cc is the most dangerous thing in an earlier comment so I’m not sure whether you are trying to dispute what I said or agree with it

Regardless the logic doesn’t break down. Take another example.

If you activate YSIM, then enter shroud for 20 seconds you’ve effectively kept YSIM off cooldown for about 6 - 16 seconds depending on when you use YSIM before entering shroud, which means your artificially giving YSIM an effective 20-30 second cooldown....this YSIM benefits more the less time you are in shroud which is contradictory to the sustain given by the shroud mechanic.

Irregardless of how long you stay in shroud, the logic still applies. Whether you are in shroud for 20 seconds or 2 seconds, that time you spend in shroud will effect the effective cooldown of your abilities out of shroud. The less time you spend in shroud the more you benefit from YSIM, the more time you spend in shroud, the more you benefit from Consume Conditions. Spending more time in shroud is almost always more optimal when it comes to sustain the which makes YSIM inferior to CC.all this is ignoring the fact that YSIM doesn’t cleanse conditions....which makes it even less valuable.

Soldier rune + Spiteful Renewal 2 conditions and you get life force. It is the better heal vs power builds which are most these days. And you still cling to the idea that you stay in shroud when you decide, the other people decide how much time you spend in shroud which is under 10 seconds in which case makes YSIM the better heal. That does not mean it is good heal, its garbage like every heal on necro.

I mean we could talk about adding Rune effects and traits to these healing skills to make them better...like consume conditions can be traited to have a 20 second cooldown and heal for more with on heal skill effects or whatever.

But standalone...YSIM is inferior to Consume Conditions in the majority of cases. For example, if you are poisoned, YSIM will heal you for less, and consume conditions is un- effected by poison. So in any situation you are always getting the full heal, while YSIM has the potential to heal you for only 2.5k health...which is laughable when a non crit auto attack can hit you for 2.5k.

Anyway YSIM isn’t a bad skill imo, it’s just not that good in comparison to Consume conditions unless you meet a strict set of criteria, mainly that you already have enough condition cleanse, that you run a full shoutmancer build and or trait around YSIM

[Vancho.8750]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Augury of Death + YSIM! That's a heal every 13 to 16 seconds (depending whether you hit 1 oder 5 targets)!

Just for the case that you run Consume Conditions as your main heal: you are begging for sustain issues then, no matter how the rest of your build looks like.

I know you like YSIM(I like it too) but it’s inferior in every way to Consume Conditions...especially if you are running Onslaught.

YSIM’s cooldown benefits more when you are in shroud less often....if you are in shroud less often it means your not taking full advantage of the sustain offered by life force...so your logic on this is inherently flawed. If you use consume conditions, enter shroud and stay in shroud for 20 seconds, then you only have to wait 10 seconds for consume conditions to be off cooldown...which if used in this manner makes its effective cooldown only 10 seconds.

Your logic breaks with the fact that you can't stay in shroud for 20 seconds, you get 10 at best and if you get 20 they are not focusing you and you are winning, which means you don't need the heal. Consume is good for the cleanse not for the heal, Reaper is not killed from the damage, its killed from the cc and the most annoying cc in the game are the spam conditions.

Right so I did say this already that cc is the most dangerous thing in an earlier comment so I’m not sure whether you are trying to dispute what I said or agree with it

Regardless the logic doesn’t break down. Take another example.

If you activate YSIM, then enter shroud for 20 seconds you’ve effectively kept YSIM off cooldown for about 6 - 16 seconds depending on when you use YSIM before entering shroud, which means your artificially giving YSIM an effective 20-30 second cooldown....this YSIM benefits more the less time you are in shroud which is contradictory to the sustain given by the shroud mechanic.

Irregardless of how long you stay in shroud, the logic still applies. Whether you are in shroud for 20 seconds or 2 seconds, that time you spend in shroud will effect the effective cooldown of your abilities out of shroud. The less time you spend in shroud the more you benefit from YSIM, the more time you spend in shroud, the more you benefit from Consume Conditions. Spending more time in shroud is almost always more optimal when it comes to sustain the which makes YSIM inferior to CC.all this is ignoring the fact that YSIM doesn’t cleanse conditions....which makes it even less valuable.

Soldier rune + Spiteful Renewal 2 conditions and you get life force. It is the better heal vs power builds which are most these days. And you still cling to the idea that you stay in shroud when you decide, the other people decide how much time you spend in shroud which is under 10 seconds in which case makes YSIM the better heal. That does not mean it is good heal, its garbage like every heal on necro.

I mean we could talk about adding Rune effects and traits to these healing skills to make them better...like consume conditions can be traited to have a 20 second cooldown and heal for more with on heal skill effects or whatever.

But standalone...YSIM is inferior to Consume Conditions in the majority of cases. For example, if you are poisoned, YSIM will heal you for less, and consume conditions is un- effected by poison. So in any situation you are always getting the full heal, while YSIM has the potential to heal you for only 2.5k health...which is laughable when a non crit auto attack can hit you for 2.5k.

Anyway YSIM isn’t a bad skill imo, it’s just not that good in comparison to Consume conditions unless you meet a strict set of criteria, mainly that you already have enough condition cleanse, that you run a full shoutmancer build and or trait around YSIM

Both have their good and bad parts to them. Consume is great because everyone spams conditions like mad man, it is better vs scourge mirage and whatever FOTM condi comes next but if they are not using that many its 30 second cd for 7k heal. I like YSIM cause i end up fighting a lot of power based specks like rev, war, thief(even though it trows poison),ranger(even though you can do fuck all vs Longbow) and engi, they should probably buff the trait for shouts cause it should heal more in my opinion when traited with other similar life leech effects, since life leech is kinda garbage compared to other healing options.

[Nimon.7840]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:The long version:

• shroud: 50% damage reduction
• spectral armor: 33% damage reduction
• infusing terror: 20% damage reduction
• spectral armor in shroud: 1600 LF per second
• spectral walk in shroud: 800 LF every 2 seconds

damage reduction in shroud: 1 x 0,5 x 0,67 x 0,8 - 1 = -73,2%Add the LF gain of SA and SW and you can tank A LOT of damage.

The short version:

• stay back at the beginning of the fight to not draw the attention and fill up LF
• when you are about to get bursted: pop SA, SW, shroud, infusing terror
• survive
• (reposition with spectral recall after leaving shroud)

That's btw. the reason why SA and SW are pretty much mandatory for any serious reaper build (

edit: and why paladin amulet scales so well on the spec

).

When you are not in shroud: nightfall and your 3rd utility slot (wurm / suffer! for kiting, CPC for projectile block, rise! for further damage reduction etc.)!

I sometimes wonder if the 50% damage reduction in shroud even works or it just decides to bug out and do nothing.

Yeah. I do have the same issues. I have 16k of, get hit by 20k dmg and shroud is gone?! Where is my dmg reduction???

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:The long version:

• shroud: 50% damage reduction
• spectral armor: 33% damage reduction
• infusing terror: 20% damage reduction
• spectral armor in shroud: 1600 LF per second
• spectral walk in shroud: 800 LF every 2 seconds

damage reduction in shroud: 1 x 0,5 x 0,67 x 0,8 - 1 = -73,2%Add the LF gain of SA and SW and you can tank A LOT of damage.

The short version:

• stay back at the beginning of the fight to not draw the attention and fill up LF
• when you are about to get bursted: pop SA, SW, shroud, infusing terror
• survive
• (reposition with spectral recall after leaving shroud)

That's btw. the reason why SA and SW are pretty much mandatory for any serious reaper build (

edit: and why paladin amulet scales so well on the spec

).

When you are not in shroud: nightfall and your 3rd utility slot (wurm / suffer! for kiting, CPC for projectile block, rise! for further damage reduction etc.)!

I sometimes wonder if the 50% damage reduction in shroud even works or it just decides to bug out and do nothing.

Yeah. I do have the same issues. I have 16k of, get hit by 20k dmg and shroud is gone?! Where is my dmg reduction???

A long time ago should would not overflow. e.g. if you had 1 shroud left and you got hit by a 10k hit you would only get knocked out of shroud.They changed this so it overflows properly and it was at this time that if you take a hit larger than shroud would normally allow the damage reduction doesn't work.

This is how i remember it at least.

[Vancho.8750]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:The long version:

• shroud: 50% damage reduction
• spectral armor: 33% damage reduction
• infusing terror: 20% damage reduction
• spectral armor in shroud: 1600 LF per second
• spectral walk in shroud: 800 LF every 2 seconds

damage reduction in shroud: 1 x 0,5 x 0,67 x 0,8 - 1 = -73,2%Add the LF gain of SA and SW and you can tank A LOT of damage.

The short version:

• stay back at the beginning of the fight to not draw the attention and fill up LF
• when you are about to get bursted: pop SA, SW, shroud, infusing terror
• survive
• (reposition with spectral recall after leaving shroud)

That's btw. the reason why SA and SW are pretty much mandatory for any serious reaper build (

edit: and why paladin amulet scales so well on the spec

).

When you are not in shroud: nightfall and your 3rd utility slot (wurm / suffer! for kiting, CPC for projectile block, rise! for further damage reduction etc.)!

I sometimes wonder if the 50% damage reduction in shroud even works or it just decides to bug out and do nothing.

Yeah. I do have the same issues. I have 16k of, get hit by 20k dmg and shroud is gone?! Where is my dmg reduction???

A long time ago should would not overflow. e.g. if you had 1 shroud left and you got hit by a 10k hit you would only get knocked out of shroud.They changed this so it overflows properly and it was at this time that if you take a hit larger than shroud would normally allow the damage reduction doesn't work.

This is how i remember it at least.So the way it works is stupid and bugged, but it is a feature, great. If anyone does 10k and you are at 9k it doesn't get the shroud reduce. I think it should overflow for that hit that knocks you out of shroud.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:The long version:

• shroud: 50% damage reduction
• spectral armor: 33% damage reduction
• infusing terror: 20% damage reduction
• spectral armor in shroud: 1600 LF per second
• spectral walk in shroud: 800 LF every 2 seconds

damage reduction in shroud: 1 x 0,5 x 0,67 x 0,8 - 1 = -73,2%Add the LF gain of SA and SW and you can tank A LOT of damage.

The short version:

• stay back at the beginning of the fight to not draw the attention and fill up LF
• when you are about to get bursted: pop SA, SW, shroud, infusing terror
• survive
• (reposition with spectral recall after leaving shroud)

That's btw. the reason why SA and SW are pretty much mandatory for any serious reaper build (

edit: and why paladin amulet scales so well on the spec

).

When you are not in shroud: nightfall and your 3rd utility slot (wurm / suffer! for kiting, CPC for projectile block, rise! for further damage reduction etc.)!

I sometimes wonder if the 50% damage reduction in shroud even works or it just decides to bug out and do nothing.

Yeah. I do have the same issues. I have 16k of, get hit by 20k dmg and shroud is gone?! Where is my dmg reduction???

A long time ago should would not overflow. e.g. if you had 1 shroud left and you got hit by a 10k hit you would only get knocked out of shroud.They changed this so it overflows properly and it was at this time that if you take a hit larger than shroud would normally allow the damage reduction doesn't work.

This is how i remember it at least.So the way it works is stupid and bugged, but it is a feature, great. If anyone does 10k and you are at 9k it doesn't get the shroud reduce. I think it should overflow for that hit that knocks you out of shroud.

I believe in your scenario it would overflow for 1k. The whole 50% damage reduction is a bug that became a feature due to how difficult it would be for them to change shroud due to the spaghetti code and how it changed from early beta to sorta what we have now.

[KrHome.1920]

It should be easy for them to double the amount of life force and remove the 50% damage reduction to solve the overflow issue while maintaining everything else of the mechanic. (Scourge F-skill costs have to be doubled too of course) I don't know why they just don't do it. Maybe to prevent shitstorms of non necro players when they see LF numbers around 40k and confuse that with health (like they do it already).

If we dive a bit deeper in the mechanic then protection and other percentage based damage reductions become a bit stronger when they do the above due to the multiplycative nature of these effects, but that's only a minor impact.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@InFamouz.4097 said:what is the Reaper role on a PvP match?

To feed enemy team with free kills.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@KrHome.1920 said:I don't know why they just don't do it.

Maybe it isn't that easy.

[ZDragon.3046]

I think reaper is in nearly an ok spot to be honest. Rather it is in a ok spot but i could always see improvements on a few minor things. Although the power role you hold is not in your own hands if that makes any sense.

In 5v5 matches the power role is held in the hands of your teammates and or the other teams coordination.

If the other team leaves you alive you deal tons of damage and completely change the corse of a fight. Reaper on almost any build can ruin 2-5 people with a single well placed soul spiral or few auto swings. Reaper in itself its fairly strong even when lacking a defensive trait line like most professions run in pvp.

That said if the other team knows how to focus fire you every time you show up as a reaper no matter how well you try to surprise play it you will feel very weak and very under powered because you pretty much wont get to play your part in a fight. You don't hold the power role to make plays.

Necromancer has never had the power to full control its own potential in a team fight. It always felt based on the other teams coordination or your teams coordination to keep you alive in my opinion. I always know when decent people are queue together in matches because those 2 or 3 people will always be the ones who focus me no matter what point im attempting to play a part in and no matter how i play it. I can show up as late as i want to in a fight and no matter what they are doing their focus instantly switches to me. Most of the time how well i do is not based on my own skill completely but also based on the skill of those im matched against or those on my team.

That said Necromancer still has issues (no good defensive line (death magic )) but reaper itself is in a solid spot and i dont think it needs many changes just a few. Particularly on shouts, and on 2 of its grand masters but i wont go into details on that here.

TLDR:If you want to hold the power role in your hands more often in a match necromancer is not the best class to look for that experience.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

@ZDragon.3046 said:I think reaper is in nearly an ok spot to be honest. Rather it is in a ok spot but i could always see improvements on a few minor things. Although the power role you hold is not in your own hands if that makes any sense.

In 5v5 matches the power role is held in the hands of your teammates and or the other teams coordination.

If the other team leaves you alive you deal tons of damage and completely change the corse of a fight. Reaper on almost any build can ruin 2-5 people with a single well placed soul spiral or few auto swings. Reaper in itself its fairly strong even when lacking a defensive trait line like most professions run in pvp.

That said if the other team knows how to focus fire you every time you show up as a reaper no matter how well you try to surprise play it you will feel very weak and very under powered because you pretty much wont get to play your part in a fight. You don't hold the power role to make plays.

Necromancer has never had the power to full control its own potential in a team fight. It always felt based on the other teams coordination or your teams coordination to keep you alive in my opinion. I always know when decent people are queue together in matches because those 2 or 3 people will always be the ones who focus me no matter what point im attempting to play a part in and no matter how i play it. I can show up as late as i want to in a fight and no matter what they are doing their focus instantly switches to me. Most of the time how well i do is not based on my own skill completely but also based on the skill of those im matched against or those on my team.

That said Necromancer still has issues (no good defensive line (death magic )) but reaper itself is in a solid spot and i dont think it needs many changes just a few. Particularly on shouts, and on 2 of its grand masters but i wont go into details on that here.

TLDR:If you want to hold the power role in your hands more often in a match necromancer is not the best class to look for that experience.

Spot on Dragon. If you're continually matched with those who know what's up it's a rough night.

[Gamble.4580]

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I think reaper is in nearly an ok spot to be honest. Rather it is in a ok spot but i could always see improvements on a few minor things. Although the power role you hold is not in your own hands if that makes any sense.

In 5v5 matches the power role is held in the hands of your teammates and or the other teams coordination.

If the other team leaves you alive you deal tons of damage and completely change the corse of a fight. Reaper on almost any build can ruin 2-5 people with a single well placed soul spiral or few auto swings. Reaper in itself its fairly strong even when lacking a defensive trait line like most professions run in pvp.

That said if the other team knows how to focus fire you every time you show up as a reaper no matter how well you try to surprise play it you will feel very weak and very under powered because you pretty much wont get to play your part in a fight. You don't hold the power role to make plays.

Necromancer has never had the power to full control its own potential in a team fight. It always felt based on the other teams coordination or your teams coordination to keep you alive in my opinion. I always know when decent people are queue together in matches because those 2 or 3 people will always be the ones who focus me no matter what point im attempting to play a part in and no matter how i play it. I can show up as late as i want to in a fight and no matter what they are doing their focus instantly switches to me. Most of the time how well i do is not based on my own skill completely but also based on the skill of those im matched against or those on my team.

That said Necromancer still has issues (no good defensive line (death magic )) but reaper itself is in a solid spot and i dont think it needs many changes just a few. Particularly on shouts, and on 2 of its grand masters but i wont go into details on that here.

TLDR:If you want to hold the power role in your hands more often in a match necromancer is not the best class to look for that experience.

Spot on Dragon. If you're continually matched with those who know what's up it's a rough night.

I disagree I think reaper is in a great spot at moment. But no1 but few know how to use them properly.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

To each his own Gamble.

[Burjis.3087]

State of reaper: It's considered OP to anyone playing gold tier 2 or below. Its performance goes down significantly as you go higher in the league as your opponents get smarter. Ironically though I've been having better win rates on reaper on plat tier 2 during more than one ladder, than plat tier 1 or gold tier 3!

[XECOR.2814]

I know what you mean but if you pop-in, do damage and pop-out then you might find much success. Spectral walk and wurm are compulsory for me atleast in every build. Think of yourself as deadeye or a build which freecasts and does not actually fights people.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Gamble.4580 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I think reaper is in nearly an ok spot to be honest. Rather it is in a ok spot but i could always see improvements on a few minor things. Although the power role you hold is not in your own hands if that makes any sense.

In 5v5 matches the power role is held in the hands of your teammates and or the other teams coordination.

If the other team leaves you alive you deal tons of damage and completely change the corse of a fight. Reaper on almost any build can ruin 2-5 people with a single well placed soul spiral or few auto swings. Reaper in itself its fairly strong even when lacking a defensive trait line like most professions run in pvp.

That said if the other team knows how to focus fire you every time you show up as a reaper no matter how well you try to surprise play it you will feel very weak and very under powered because you pretty much wont get to play your part in a fight. You don't hold the power role to make plays.

Necromancer has never had the power to full control its own potential in a team fight. It always felt based on the other teams coordination or your teams coordination to keep you alive in my opinion. I always know when decent people are queue together in matches because those 2 or 3 people will always be the ones who focus me no matter what point im attempting to play a part in and no matter how i play it. I can show up as late as i want to in a fight and no matter what they are doing their focus instantly switches to me. Most of the time how well i do is not based on my own skill completely but also based on the skill of those im matched against or those on my team.

That said Necromancer still has issues (no good defensive line (death magic )) but reaper itself is in a solid spot and i dont think it needs many changes just a few. Particularly on shouts, and on 2 of its grand masters but i wont go into details on that here.

TLDR:If you want to hold the power role in your hands more often in a match necromancer is not the best class to look for that experience.

Spot on Dragon. If you're continually matched with those who know what's up it's a rough night.

I disagree I think reaper is in a great spot at moment. But no1 but few know how to use them properly.

And i disagree with your statement. I think plenty of people know how to use reaper properly. Note no one you replied to above this said Reaper was in a bad spot.

Infact im pretty sure i said reaper itself is in a good spot.. a great spot? no but a good spot yes.Great spots are limited to very few specs right nowI consider pwoer chrono and mirage or mesmer in general , scrapper, holosmith, firebrand, hearld rev, and spellbreaker great spots. These classes run pvp right now.Weaver is possibly sitting borderline between good and great though its kind of a one trick pony and that personally bothers me.Scourge is sitting some where between good and great also.Reaper is good but not great its traits are fairly solid and its shroud and weapon skills are fine. Only a few traits need touching up at this point and maybe a few touch ups on shouts as well and reaper would be solid as far as that elite spec by itself goes.

However the reason i will never consider reaper great is simply because that its weaknesses and issues will stem from core necromancers faults. Until core necro gets a proper touch up on those faults they will be there in every elite spec built on top of it. This is something thats been said time and time again.

Does reaper need big heavy buffs? No probably not at this pointBut CORE! D:

[Gamble.4580]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Gamble.4580 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I think reaper is in nearly an ok spot to be honest. Rather it is in a ok spot but i could always see improvements on a few minor things. Although the power role you hold is not in your own hands if that makes any sense.

In 5v5 matches the power role is held in the hands of your teammates and or the other teams coordination.

If the other team leaves you alive you deal tons of damage and completely change the corse of a fight. Reaper on almost any build can ruin 2-5 people with a single well placed soul spiral or few auto swings. Reaper in itself its fairly strong even when lacking a defensive trait line like most professions run in pvp.

That said if the other team knows how to focus fire you every time you show up as a reaper no matter how well you try to surprise play it you will feel very weak and very under powered because you pretty much wont get to play your part in a fight. You don't hold the power role to make plays.

Necromancer has never had the power to full control its own potential in a team fight. It always felt based on the other teams coordination or your teams coordination to keep you alive in my opinion. I always know when decent people are queue together in matches because those 2 or 3 people will always be the ones who focus me no matter what point im attempting to play a part in and no matter how i play it. I can show up as late as i want to in a fight and no matter what they are doing their focus instantly switches to me. Most of the time how well i do is not based on my own skill completely but also based on the skill of those im matched against or those on my team.

That said Necromancer still has issues (no good defensive line (death magic )) but reaper itself is in a solid spot and i dont think it needs many changes just a few. Particularly on shouts, and on 2 of its grand masters but i wont go into details on that here.

TLDR:If you want to hold the power role in your hands more often in a match necromancer is not the best class to look for that experience.

Spot on Dragon. If you're continually matched with those who know what's up it's a rough night.

I disagree I think reaper is in a great spot at moment. But no1 but few know how to use them properly.

And i disagree with your statement. I think plenty of people know how to use reaper properly. Note no one you replied to above this said Reaper was in a bad spot.

Infact im pretty sure i said reaper itself is in a good spot.. a great spot? no but a good spot yes.Great spots are limited to very few specs right nowI consider pwoer chrono and mirage or mesmer in general , scrapper, holosmith, firebrand, hearld rev, and spellbreaker great spots. These classes run pvp right now.Weaver is possibly sitting borderline between good and great though its kind of a one trick pony and that personally bothers me.Scourge is sitting some where between good and great also.Reaper is good but not great its traits are fairly solid and its shroud and weapon skills are fine. Only a few traits need touching up at this point and maybe a few touch ups on shouts as well and reaper would be solid as far as that elite spec by itself goes.

However the reason i will never consider reaper great is simply because that its weaknesses and issues will stem from core necromancers faults. Until core necro gets a proper touch up on those faults they will be there in every elite spec built on top of it. This is something thats been said time and time again.

Does reaper need big heavy buffs? No probably not at this pointBut CORE! D:

Oh hahaha idk what this convo is I was probably to baked

[dceptaconroy.7928]

@Gamble.4580 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Gamble.4580 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I think reaper is in nearly an ok spot to be honest. Rather it is in a ok spot but i could always see improvements on a few minor things. Although the power role you hold is not in your own hands if that makes any sense.

In 5v5 matches the power role is held in the hands of your teammates and or the other teams coordination.

If the other team leaves you alive you deal tons of damage and completely change the corse of a fight. Reaper on almost any build can ruin 2-5 people with a single well placed soul spiral or few auto swings. Reaper in itself its fairly strong even when lacking a defensive trait line like most professions run in pvp.

That said if the other team knows how to focus fire you every time you show up as a reaper no matter how well you try to surprise play it you will feel very weak and very under powered because you pretty much wont get to play your part in a fight. You don't hold the power role to make plays.

Necromancer has never had the power to full control its own potential in a team fight. It always felt based on the other teams coordination or your teams coordination to keep you alive in my opinion. I always know when decent people are queue together in matches because those 2 or 3 people will always be the ones who focus me no matter what point im attempting to play a part in and no matter how i play it. I can show up as late as i want to in a fight and no matter what they are doing their focus instantly switches to me. Most of the time how well i do is not based on my own skill completely but also based on the skill of those im matched against or those on my team.

That said Necromancer still has issues (no good defensive line (death magic )) but reaper itself is in a solid spot and i dont think it needs many changes just a few. Particularly on shouts, and on 2 of its grand masters but i wont go into details on that here.

TLDR:If you want to hold the power role in your hands more often in a match necromancer is not the best class to look for that experience.

Spot on Dragon. If you're continually matched with those who know what's up it's a rough night.

I disagree I think reaper is in a great spot at moment. But no1 but few know how to use them properly.

And i disagree with your statement. I think plenty of people know how to use reaper properly. Note no one you replied to above this said Reaper was in a bad spot.

Infact im pretty sure i said reaper itself is in a good spot.. a great spot? no but a good spot yes.Great spots are limited to very few specs right nowI consider pwoer chrono and mirage or mesmer in general , scrapper, holosmith, firebrand, hearld rev, and spellbreaker great spots. These classes run pvp right now.Weaver is possibly sitting borderline between good and great though its kind of a one trick pony and that personally bothers me.Scourge is sitting some where between good and great also.Reaper is good but not great its traits are fairly solid and its shroud and weapon skills are fine. Only a few traits need touching up at this point and maybe a few touch ups on shouts as well and reaper would be solid as far as that elite spec by itself goes.

However the reason i will never consider reaper great is simply because that its weaknesses and issues will stem from core necromancers faults. Until core necro gets a proper touch up on those faults they will be there in every elite spec built on top of it. This is something thats been said time and time again.

Does reaper need big heavy buffs? No probably not at this pointBut CORE! D:

Oh hahaha idk what this convo is I was probably to baked

Glad that was clarified.

[Gamble.4580]

@Gamble.4580 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Gamble.4580 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I think reaper is in nearly an ok spot to be honest. Rather it is in a ok spot but i could always see improvements on a few minor things. Although the power role you hold is not in your own hands if that makes any sense.

In 5v5 matches the power role is held in the hands of your teammates and or the other teams coordination.

If the other team leaves you alive you deal tons of damage and completely change the corse of a fight. Reaper on almost any build can ruin 2-5 people with a single well placed soul spiral or few auto swings. Reaper in itself its fairly strong even when lacking a defensive trait line like most professions run in pvp.

That said if the other team knows how to focus fire you every time you show up as a reaper no matter how well you try to surprise play it you will feel very weak and very under powered because you pretty much wont get to play your part in a fight. You don't hold the power role to make plays.

Necromancer has never had the power to full control its own potential in a team fight. It always felt based on the other teams coordination or your teams coordination to keep you alive in my opinion. I always know when decent people are queue together in matches because those 2 or 3 people will always be the ones who focus me no matter what point im attempting to play a part in and no matter how i play it. I can show up as late as i want to in a fight and no matter what they are doing their focus instantly switches to me. Most of the time how well i do is not based on my own skill completely but also based on the skill of those im matched against or those on my team.

That said Necromancer still has issues (no good defensive line (death magic )) but reaper itself is in a solid spot and i dont think it needs many changes just a few. Particularly on shouts, and on 2 of its grand masters but i wont go into details on that here.

TLDR:If you want to hold the power role in your hands more often in a match necromancer is not the best class to look for that experience.

Spot on Dragon. If you're continually matched with those who know what's up it's a rough night.

I disagree I think reaper is in a great spot at moment. But no1 but few know how to use them properly.

And i disagree with your statement. I think plenty of people know how to use reaper properly. Note no one you replied to above this said Reaper was in a bad spot.

Infact im pretty sure i said reaper itself is in a good spot.. a great spot? no but a good spot yes.Great spots are limited to very few specs right nowI consider pwoer chrono and mirage or mesmer in general , scrapper, holosmith, firebrand, hearld rev, and spellbreaker great spots. These classes run pvp right now.Weaver is possibly sitting borderline between good and great though its kind of a one trick pony and that personally bothers me.Scourge is sitting some where between good and great also.Reaper is good but not great its traits are fairly solid and its shroud and weapon skills are fine. Only a few traits need touching up at this point and maybe a few touch ups on shouts as well and reaper would be solid as far as that elite spec by itself goes.

However the reason i will never consider reaper great is simply because that its weaknesses and issues will stem from core necromancers faults. Until core necro gets a proper touch up on those faults they will be there in every elite spec built on top of it. This is something thats been said time and time again.

Does reaper need big heavy buffs? No probably not at this pointBut CORE! D:

Oh hahaha idk what this convo is I was probably to baked

This is some good points tho. Does reaper need buff no I agree it’s fun to play and can hold its own enough to be useful. Butttt would love to see worm a instant cast for quicker kitting. but I reckon on core it could do with some buffs in ds maybe but don’t play it at all for years so can not tell u what ability’s but just watched valluns core nec video and seems good for low plat

[James.1065]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:The long version:

• shroud: 50% damage reduction
• spectral armor: 33% damage reduction
• infusing terror: 20% damage reduction
• spectral armor in shroud: 1600 LF per second
• spectral walk in shroud: 800 LF every 2 seconds

damage reduction in shroud: 1 x 0,5 x 0,67 x 0,8 - 1 = -73,2%Add the LF gain of SA and SW and you can tank A LOT of damage.

The short version:

• stay back at the beginning of the fight to not draw the attention and fill up LF
• when you are about to get bursted: pop SA, SW, shroud, infusing terror
• survive
• (reposition with spectral recall after leaving shroud)

That's btw. the reason why SA and SW are pretty much mandatory for any serious reaper build (

edit: and why paladin amulet scales so well on the spec

).

When you are not in shroud: nightfall and your 3rd utility slot (wurm / suffer! for kiting, CPC for projectile block, rise! for further damage reduction etc.)!

I sometimes wonder if the 50% damage reduction in shroud even works or it just decides to bug out and do nothing.

I totally agree - I don't see or feel any difference at all weather I am in shroud or not. The damage I take is defanitly not halved