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Ele changes in the latest patch notes


steki.1478

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In addition to various tempest improvements, this update includes a major change in how core elemental specialization lines work. The weapon-cooldown traits are being merged into the grandmaster minor traits for the four primary elemental lines. Previously, the cooldown trait and other available options were mutually exclusive, and its nature of letting you use abilities more frequently tended to crowd out those alternatives. By folding this functionality into a minor trait, we are recognizing that taking an elemental specialization represents an investment in that element's skills. The traits that used to host the cooldown reductions have each been adjusted to account for these changes.

  • Overload Air: Increased damage of the Static Charge effect provided by this skill by 20%. Fixed a bug that prevented Electric Discharge from firing.
  • Earthen Blast: Increased the number of targets from 3 to 5. Fixed an incorrect damage tooltip and added a missing tooltip for Combat Only.
  • Electric Discharge: Added a missing tooltip for Combat Only.
  • Sunspot: Fixed an incorrect damage tooltip.
  • Tempest Overload Skills: Casting these skills now triggers the traits Sunspot, Healing Ripple, Electric Discharge, or Earthen Blast, depending on the element.
  • Pyromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on fire weapon skills by 20% and causes theelementalist to deal 10% increased damage to burning foes.
  • Burning Rage: This trait has moved to the master tier as a major trait, and its functionality has changed. It now grants +180 condition damage and augments the attack from the Sunspotminor trait to have 60 additional range and apply 2 stacks of burning for 5 seconds.
  • Aquamancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on water weapon skills by 20% and increases healing to other allies by 15%.
  • Aquatic Benevolence: This trait has been removed, and its functionality has been combined with Aquamancer's Training.
  • Flow like Water: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Aquamancer's Training and increases damage dealt by 10% while the elementalist is above 75% health. Additionally, it heals the elementalist when they block or evade an attack. The healing effect has a 10-second cooldown.
  • Piercing Shards: This trait now grants half its 20% bonus damage to vulnerable foes when not attuned to water. The full bonus damage is still applied while attuned to water.
  • Aeromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on air weapon skills by 20% and grants 150 ferocity. The ferocity bonus is doubled while attuned to air.
  • Raging Storm: This trait has been moved to the master tier as a major trait, and it has a new icon. The ferocity bonus granted by this trait has been reduced from 240 to 180.
  • Geomancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on earth weapon skills by 20% and reduces incoming damage by 10% from foes within a range of 360.
  • Geomancer's Defense: This trait has been removed, and its functionality has been combined with Geomancer's Training.
  • Strength of Stone: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also causes the elementalist to inflict 3 stacks of bleeding for 10 seconds when immobilizing a foe.
  • Earthen Blessing: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Geomancer's Training. It reduces the duration of movement-impairing conditions by 33% and grants 10 endurance whenever the elementalist is affected by one of these conditions.
  • Burning Precision: Increased burning duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
  • Primordial Stance: Reduced ammo recharge time from 25 seconds to 20 seconds.
  • Swift Revenge: Increased bonus damage from 7% to 10%.

I remember a lot of these being mentioned in "concerns about ele" thread and I'm happy about these. Certainly heading the right direction with this patch.

The only thing I dont understand is addition of burning rage as condi trait in master tier (there's already a condi trait there which gives very similar effect). On the other side, condi weaver in pve is the next top benchmark potential.

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How are these good changes to Ele? Power builds are now nerfed to the ground. Straight up 10% dmg nerf in Fire and master majors are all useless for Power builds. Less ferocity in Air and you are now locked to get Raging Storm if you want to have fury and ferocity. Those changes are garbage, sorry.

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Sooo we still cant catch up to anyone for shit but luckily some classes had their super speed access nerfed...so there's that. Also ffs when are they gonna fix mount bug. So many times I jump off my mount to engage only to find out my skills have been flipped around and then im stuck in a few seconds of awkwardness trying to regain my attunements while the enemy is already doing their normal rotation.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Flazzard.1796 said:As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

Wth are you on about?

You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

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@c space cowboy.2764 said:

@Flazzard.1796 said:As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

Wth are you on about?

You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

I think it was sarcastic xD

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@Vissarion.6509 said:How are these good changes to Ele? Power builds are now nerfed to the ground. Straight up 10% dmg nerf in Fire and master majors are all useless for Power builds. Less ferocity in Air and you are now locked to get Raging Storm if you want to have fury and ferocity. Those changes are garbage, sorry.

10% only worked while in fire spec anyway and persisting flames is still the same and benefits both power and condi builds. In air you lose 6% crit damage which isnt game breaking either (and you gain more than it's lost while attuned to air, which is actually good because you have no reason to camp fire during your big bombs now). Dont forget that weaver received 3% buff, primordial stance got lower cooldown and other classes got nerfed as well.

QoL from this patch is huge on the other side. There's a lot less traits that work only in 1 attunement, a lot of them are global now. Water is a possible option for dps now. Condi weaver and tempest received huge buffs.

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@c space cowboy.2764 said:

@Flazzard.1796 said:As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

Wth are you on about?

You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

Master trait, not adept one. Cleanse on fire aura. Ferocity in air is actually global now, but doubled in air. Considering that you dont need to be in fire anymore, you straight up have more ferocity all the time now, which is pretty much the buff, or in the worst case same as before.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Flazzard.1796 said:As a staff ele just got nerfed again in WvW thanks

It's actually a buff because you can camp air during your MS/fgs 5, while having free cleanse from fire master trait.

Wth are you on about?

You just ate a 10% damage nerf off the top. Minimum.

The cleanse trait in fire trait line is trash, as it has a 40 second icd.

And your 10% damage buff is conditional on your foes being on fire, which any competent group is running PoP scrappers so thats another 10% nerf.

Master trait, not adept one. Cleanse on fire aura. Ferocity in air is actually global now, but doubled in air. Considering that you dont need to be in fire anymore, you straight up have more ferocity all the time now, which is pretty much the buff, or in the worst case same as before.

Since when does 90 ferocity = 10% flat damage boost+150 power?

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Edit: wait nvm I think there's actually a 10% dmg nerf in fire line overall Lol, not too sure about air yet.

Edit2: yep, nvm. I think it's overall dps nerf on eles (power for sure) since now you don't even have the option of taking Stormsoul and the change to Pyromancer's and Burning Rage are actually terrible. All this in exchange for some global weapon skill cd reduction that we can already get half of without the patch. Trash class stay trash as expected. Doesn't matter, I'm just enjoying my casual afking in dragonfall and bashing dragon pinatas while I'm on my ele and playing the 8 other good classes in the actual game like it's meant to be by this balance team. I've recently found Berserker spin2win to be actually kind of fun =).

One of the very few patches for Ele I'm surprsied and happy about because it seems to be all buffs and it doesn't seem like there's another one of those bs preemptive nerfs or straight up nerfs. Maybe the change to Raging Storm will end up nerfing staff weavers a little but the damage lost from not taking Stormsoul is kind of made up with the buff to Swift Revenge and the outgoing stun duration increase is basically flat out useless while the cd reduction for air skills are actually useful.

Still not very happy about Tempest not really getting any meaningful buff though. Although the healing ripple / fire aura on overload is not bad, but other classes such as scrapper gets more significant buffs as a support while no real nerfs were done support fb/rev/chrono/druid/scourge, which means it's still pointless to take a tempest when you can take all these other better support classes.

Overall I doubt ele's position in any game mode will change after this patch but maybe if this continues it will change some day (5 years later maybe if we're talking about a balance patch every ~3 months).

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Quick math for core fire and air traits:

Before patch - 150 power in fire, 10% dmg in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 240 ferocity with fury, both global || 180 ferocity in air

After patch: 150 power + 180 condi damage in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 180 ferocity with fury, 150 ferocity aeromancer, all global || 150 ferocity in air

While attuned to fire, damage loss is 10%, but you gain 90 ferocity (6% crit damage), overall nullified with weaver buff on swift revenge.
While attuned to air you gain 60 ferocity (4% crit damage).

Overall small dps loss while attuned to fire, buff while in air. However, primordial stance cd got reduced by 5 sec and you get some improved burns from new burning rage (in pve) which should technically make weaver better than it used to be.

edits: dont ask.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Vissarion.6509 said:How are these good changes to Ele? Power builds are now nerfed to the ground. Straight up 10% dmg nerf in Fire and master majors are all useless for Power builds. Less ferocity in Air and you are now locked to get Raging Storm if you want to have fury and ferocity. Those changes are garbage, sorry.

10% only worked while in fire spec anyway and persisting flames is still the same and benefits both power and condi builds. In air you lose 6% crit damage which isnt game breaking either
(and you gain more than it's lost while attuned to air, which is actually good because you have no reason to camp fire during your big bombs now)
. Dont forget that weaver received 3% buff, primordial stance got lower cooldown and other classes got nerfed as well.

QoL from this patch is huge on the other side. There's a lot less traits that work only in 1 attunement, a lot of them are global now. Water is a possible option for dps now. Condi weaver and tempest received huge buffs.

Condi builds are outclassed by far by many other classes anyway. And now we lose most of our Damage modifiers too, so we will deal even less damage.

Maybe it's time to buff meteor shower ....

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@Vissarion.6509 said:

@Vissarion.6509 said:How are these good changes to Ele? Power builds are now nerfed to the ground. Straight up 10% dmg nerf in Fire and master majors are all useless for Power builds. Less ferocity in Air and you are now locked to get Raging Storm if you want to have fury and ferocity. Those changes are garbage, sorry.

10% only worked while in fire spec anyway and persisting flames is still the same and benefits both power and condi builds. In air you lose 6% crit damage which isnt game breaking either
(and you gain more than it's lost while attuned to air, which is actually good because you have no reason to camp fire during your big bombs now)
. Dont forget that weaver received 3% buff, primordial stance got lower cooldown and other classes got nerfed as well.

QoL from this patch is huge on the other side. There's a lot less traits that work only in 1 attunement, a lot of them are global now. Water is a possible option for dps now. Condi weaver and tempest received huge buffs.

Condi builds are outclassed by far by many other classes anyway. And now we lose most of our Damage modifiers too, so we will deal even less damage.

Maybe it's time to buff meteor shower ....

Check my comment above.

Nevermind lol Brain fart.

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@steki.1478 said:Quick math for core fire and air traits:

Before patch - 150 power in fire, 10% dmg in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 240 ferocity with fury, both global || 180 ferocity in air

After patch: 150 power in fire || ~~10% dmg vs burning foes, ~~ 180 ferocity with fury, 150 ferocity aeromancer, all global || 150 ferocity in air

While attuned to fire, damage loss is 10%, but you gain 90 ferocity (6% crit damage), overall nullified with weaver buff on swift revenge.

While attuned to air you gain 60 ferocity (4% crit damage).

edit: overlooked burning rage trait..rip 10% global damage.. At least it was useless in wvw already.

Your calcs are off.

Crit damage does not equal power, period.

So you lose 150 power, and a flat 10% damage boost by dual attuning to air now.

After the patch, the only thing you gain by running fire trait line is 150 power, and you have to attune to it to use it. Now without the global 10% boost its moot.

It was a flat nerf.

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Seems like a small nerf to the PVE power sword weaver. taking into account the changes in air and fire, seems like a 3-4% nerf (less dmg while in fire, more ferocity and burns, small dmg buff from weaver).A small buff to condi weaver and hybrid weaver in PVE, maybe 3-4% too, so maybe the griever weaver will be on pair with power weaver for raids and fractals. Boss phases could still be an issue to condi.

In PvP seems fire weaver will take a bit of a hit in its dmg. Water weaver might actually get a buff with this since aquamancer training went to minor and now there are some nice options in its place, flow like water seems quite nice.The biggest buff to ele in PvP is the nerf to everything else... rangers seek'em nerfed, scrapper sustain nerfed, rev dmg and chills nerfed, necro sustain nerfed...

The big question is... Have they fixed the stability?

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@c space cowboy.2764 said:

@steki.1478 said:Quick math for core fire and air traits:

Before patch - 150 power in fire, 10% dmg in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 240 ferocity with fury, both global || 180 ferocity in air

After patch: 150 power in fire || ~~10% dmg vs burning foes, ~~ 180 ferocity with fury, 150 ferocity aeromancer, all global || 150 ferocity in air

While attuned to fire, damage loss is 10%, but you gain 90 ferocity (6% crit damage), overall nullified with weaver buff on swift revenge.

While attuned to air you gain 60 ferocity (4% crit damage).

edit: overlooked burning rage trait..rip 10% global damage.. At least it was useless in wvw already.

Your calcs are off.

Crit damage does not equal power, period.

So you lose 150 power, and a flat 10% damage boost by dual attuning to air now.

After the patch, the only thing you gain by running fire trait line is 150 power, and you have to attune to it to use it. Now without the global 10% boost its moot.

It was a flat nerf.

You would attune to air at some point anyway, now you can simply use FA and attune to air as soon as you use your fire skills (and primordial stance in pve). In pve I'm certain that FA s/w is better than before patch because you can stack up some serious burns from new burning rage as well as buffed primordial stance.

In wvw your main damage comes from MS and fgs5, which you can both cast while in air spec. Even before these changes, being fully in fire and being fully in air had almost no dps difference because ferocity you gain in air with FA is huge and now it's even higher and you get free 2 cleanses when you attune to fire. The only thing you lose is 10% damage while using fireball, but since you have some global ferocity and buff from swift revenge, that difference is non existent.

PS. I edited the comment above several times because I got confused with what was removed only to see that it wasnt removed at all.

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@lLobo.7960 said:Seems like a small nerf to the PVE power sword weaver. taking into account the changes in air and fire, seems like a 3-4% nerf (less dmg while in fire, more ferocity and burns, small dmg buff from weaver).A small buff to condi weaver and hybrid weaver in PVE, maybe 3-4% too, so maybe the griever weaver will be on pair with power weaver for raids and fractals. Boss phases could still be an issue to condi.

In PvP seems fire weaver will take a bit of a hit in its dmg. Water weaver might actually get a buff with this since aquamancer training went to minor and now there are some nice options in its place, flow like water seems quite nice.The biggest buff to ele in PvP is the nerf to everything else... rangers seek'em nerfed, scrapper sustain nerfed, rev dmg and chills nerfed, necro sustain nerfed...

The big question is... Have they fixed the stability?

Primordial stance buffed, aoe burns when attuning fire, 180 condi while in fire, always present cdr on fire skills (as far as I know the build wasnt using pyromancer training anyway). The only thing it lost was potential 10% damage while being in fire (and pvp weaver barely has any direct damage). I dont know why I'm the only one that sees big buffs in condi ele from this patch.

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@steki.1478 said:

@lLobo.7960 said:Seems like a small nerf to the PVE power sword weaver. taking into account the changes in air and fire, seems like a 3-4% nerf (less dmg while in fire, more ferocity and burns, small dmg buff from weaver).A small buff to condi weaver and hybrid weaver in PVE, maybe 3-4% too, so maybe the griever weaver will be on pair with power weaver for raids and fractals. Boss phases could still be an issue to condi.

In PvP seems fire weaver will take a bit of a hit in its dmg. Water weaver might actually get a buff with this since aquamancer training went to minor and now there are some nice options in its place, flow like water seems quite nice.The biggest buff to ele in PvP is the nerf to everything else... rangers seek'em nerfed, scrapper sustain nerfed, rev dmg and chills nerfed, necro sustain nerfed...

The big question is... Have they fixed the stability?

Primordial stance buffed, aoe burns when attuning fire, 180 condi while in fire, always present cdr on fire skills (as far as I know the build wasnt using pyromancer training anyway). The only thing it lost was potential 10% damage while being in fire (and pvp weaver barely has any direct damage). I dont know why I'm the only one that sees big buffs in condi ele from this patch.

The PvE condi spec definitely got a buff, I'm just not sure if the buff in the condi side will be enough to cover the loss of dmg for the usual power build, it might come close, well have to see.I don't think its a bad change, I always advocated for more condi/hybrid in fire and more power/crit in air.

Also, the condi fire tempest build might be a great option again (for raids) with the changes to fire and overloads.

The d/d weaver pvp/wvw build might be doing quite nice, and even core d/d with fire/water/arcane might be an interesting option again.

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@steki.1478 said:Quick math for core fire and air traits:

Before patch - 150 power in fire, 10% dmg in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 240 ferocity with fury, both global || 180 ferocity in air

After patch: 150 power + 180 condi damage in fire || 10% dmg vs burning foes, 180 ferocity with fury, 150 ferocity aeromancer, all global || 150 ferocity in air

While attuned to fire, damage loss is 10%, but you gain 90 ferocity (6% crit damage), overall nullified with weaver buff on swift revenge.

While attuned to air you gain 60 ferocity (4% crit damage).

Overall small dps loss while attuned to fire, buff while in air. However, primordial stance cd got reduced by 5 sec and you get some improved burns from new burning rage (in pve) which should technically make weaver better than it used to be.

edits: dont ask.

Also, maybe use flame legion runes now, as the improvment on burn dmg is huge and scholar is imho shit if you aren't on farm or are pugging. And on farm nothing really matters anyways.

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Flow Like Water: 10% when above 75% HPPiercing Shards: 10% vs Vulnerable globally, 20% in water.+Air line bonuses

vs

+150 Power only from Fire+Air

Now if 150 Power is worth more than potential 20% (with all the cleansing shenanigans and 75% condition), then Water is probably a better pick if you think that damage vs Burning foes condition won't be met. I don't know if 150 is equal to 10% flat damage though, if it is equal or less then Ele can now keep up Soothing Mist as a DPS with no harm, if it isn't then Ele gets a damage nerf for the ability to provide 80 heal/s, and further more damage nerf if enemies cleansed Vulnerable and further nerfs if the HP is below 75%. Overall, it's a buff if all conditions are perfectly met with 80/s heals... hmmmm... but it's a nerf if one condition isn't met.

Weaver was able to give 3% more damage this patch, but I don't know. Guess it's not a cool patch if you are looking for a specialized class. The only buff coming from this patch is Bunker Weaver seeing some global attunements buff and Fire Weaver seeing more Fire skills' spam.

Regarding PvE, the bursting potential of Ele will be lower as only in Air will it be considered a buff, in Fire though which makes up 50% of the rotation, it's a 10% damage nerf minus 3% and 90 Ferocity more from new Air lines vs 240 of Raging Storm - the left hand side has some nerfs to show - that's if on Weaver, on Tempest; I believe it's a buff because of Air Overload spam and Air camping (and they run Arcane instead of Fire anyway), so Weaver will go down as a Power build, might go up as a Condi, but we know Condi Weaver has lots of problems in PvE. The benchmark of Tempest will be better, but Weaver's burst is no longer useful because it got nerfed.

The patch is good for a jack of all trades, but is beneath neutral for a specialized DPS.

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Earth line is still pointless because Arcane is a must pick for any Ele build in order to duel, which leaves us with one slot left if running an e-spec. Clearly all other lines have either better control, sustain, damage vs the tons of 'IFs" in Earth that still provides no Resistance or consistent Stab to be considered a solid pick vs conditions or CC spam. Still the lose-lose line.

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