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can we please not let scourge hit 10 targets anymore


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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Shade skills hit 5 targets if you take the trait Sand Savant. The other 5 targets are being hit from the attack that pulses off of your character when using a shade skill. The max targets you can hit from range therefore is still only 5.

not disputed, slightly irrelevant.

Not irrelevant since your original claim was shade skills hit 10 targets.

It's 5 targets from shade and 5 targets from the necromancer who has to actually be in range.

A possible solution could be to put all effects on the shade and remove the double effect from the necromancer making scourge more dependant on positioning his shade. Obviously shade skills would then have to be buffed, which would cause a new issue of more ranged pressure.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Shade skills hit 5 targets if you take the trait Sand Savant. The other 5 targets are being hit from the attack that pulses off of your character when using a shade skill. The max targets you can hit from range therefore is still only 5.

not disputed, slightly irrelevant.

Not irrelevant since your original claim was shade skills hit 10 targets.

It's 5 targets from shade and 5 targets from the necromancer who has to actually be in range.

A possible solution could be to put all effects on the shade and remove the double effect from the necromancer making scourge more dependant on positioning his shade. Obviously shade skills would then have to be buffed, which would cause a new issue of more ranged pressure.

But that would also increase the survivability for a Necro who no longer has to go into melee range for max damage. Don't think that's really a good direction, though as someone who just plays power scourge casually in metas and such, I wouldn't mind that change :wink:

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Shaogin.2679" said:Shade skills hit 5 targets if you take the trait Sand Savant. The other 5 targets are being hit from the attack that pulses off of your character when using a shade skill. The max targets you can hit from range therefore is still only 5.

not disputed, slightly irrelevant.

I'll take "Lying by omission" for 1200, Alex

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You guys are just mincing words to distract from the point. A scourge can hit 10 targets. The details of how are mostly irrelevant. Scourges in a zerg are almost always in range. This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Chaba.5410" said:This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

Yeah..
.that's
the reason they are preferred....

Not sure if serious.

EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:
Tj1ajkM.jpg

Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

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@Chaba.5410 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

Yeah..
.that's
the reason they are preferred....

Not sure if serious.

EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:
Tj1ajkM.jpg

Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

Not because of damage.Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

k?

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

Yeah..
.that's
the reason they are preferred....

Not sure if serious.

EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:
Tj1ajkM.jpg

Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

Not because of damage.Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

k?

Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

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@Cuks.8241 said:AOE skills should not overlap. This is what many pvp games do to prevent AOE spam. Basically what this means is that you can cast multiple area of effect spells at a certain area but only one will ever hit the enemy in that area.

That would require every aoe skill to have unlimited number of targets. Right now if you have more than 5 people in 1 aoe, none of them will take any damage/debuff.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

Yeah..
.that's
the reason they are preferred....

Not sure if serious.

EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:
Tj1ajkM.jpg

Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

Not because of damage.Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

k?

Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

It isn't a daft question. Scourge does have some corrupts, but so do other core necro skills/weapon skills (the actual strip is on a core weapon, focus).

Sand Savant is the preferred trait, which increases the number of targets and area size that can be hit. So it isn't like the number of targets is meaningless. You could also build a Reaper that strips and corrupts boons, but then one would have to argue that Scourge does corrupts better because it can hit more people with its Ghastly Breach and punishment skills...

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Scourge hits 10 targets for 3k, 30k total dmg (half of which you have to be melee) . CoR hits 5 targets for 10-15 K per hit, at range, meaning 50-75k. With lower cd. One would argue that scourge's main job isnt damage, but that means one should know wvw basics. Yes, BASICS. Its 2019, scourges have been nerfed time and again, boons being spammed reign supreme, scrappers adding more sustain than ever, yet we still QQ about... Scourge and its targets.

insert Owen Wilson WOW meme

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@Chaba.5410 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

Yeah..
.that's
the reason they are preferred....

Not sure if serious.

EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:
Tj1ajkM.jpg

Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

Not because of damage.Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

k?

Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

It isn't a daft question. Scourge does have some corrupts, but so do other core necro skills/weapon skills (the actual strip is on a core weapon, focus).

Sand Savant is the preferred trait, which increases the number of targets and area size that can be hit. So it isn't like the number of targets is meaningless. You could also build a Reaper that strips and corrupts boons, but then one would have to argue that Scourge does corrupts better because it can hit more people with its Ghastly Breach and punishment skills...

I'm just going to leave this here:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness

  • Boons Converted to Conditions: 3
  • Number of Targets: 5

Yes, the shades and the necromancer corrupt boons too. It's not their main corrupt though.

As far as mincing words, it makes a huge difference balance and complexity wise if the shade hits 10 targets, or if the necromancer and shade hit 5 targets each. One can be balanced very easily, the other not as much.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

Yeah..
.that's
the reason they are preferred....

Not sure if serious.

EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:
Tj1ajkM.jpg

Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

Not because of damage.Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

k?

Daft question, but if scourges are brought because of boon strip/corrupt instead of for damage, wouldn't the number of targets they hit still be extremely relevant to the discussion of whether or not they need nerfs? Yes, the 10 targets are hit by 2 different sources, but assuming boon removal is the point, if they both boon strip from one activation of a skill then the end result is the same as if one source hits 10 people. It just has the added benefit of hitting 5 people twice as hard in melee range.

It isn't a daft question. Scourge does have some corrupts, but so do other core necro skills/weapon skills (the actual strip is on a core weapon, focus).

Sand Savant is the preferred trait, which increases the number of targets and area size that can be hit. So it isn't like the number of targets is meaningless. You could also build a Reaper that strips and corrupts boons, but then one would have to argue that Scourge does corrupts better because it can hit more people with its Ghastly Breach and punishment skills...

I'm just going to leave this here:
  • Boons Converted to Conditions: 3
  • Number of Targets: 5

Which is on a core trait line with a core weapon.

Yes, the shades and the necromancer corrupt boons too. It's not their main corrupt though.

Uh, shades do not. Punishment skills do.

As far as mincing words, it makes a huge difference balance and complexity wise if the shade hits 10 targets, or if the necromancer and shade hit 5 targets each. One can be balanced very easily, the other not as much.

That's a good and different way of looking at it. In terms of usage though, the necro being in range together with the shade before hitting the other F skills separates those who know what they are doing with the class versus those who don't.

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So to be clear, I see on your picture they are hitting 10 targets for 2-3k each, for a total of 20-30k damage total across 10 targets. So with that in mind, it is okay for a rev to hit 5 targets for 10-15k a piece (it actually sometimes straight up downs people) then rather have the damage spread out across more targets. Okay well I am okay with this then, please remove the scourges ability to damage pulsing from itself, and double the damage that it does to five targets. I think that is quite reasonable. I will take it, as a scourge main I am find with standing out of melee and doing double damage. Im still not even going to do as much damage as rev, but its definitely preferable for a light class to stay out of Melee, and hence in wvw the pirate ship meta is once more reborn.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:Scourge hits 10 targets for 3k, 30k total dmg (half of which you have to be melee) . CoR hits 5 targets for 10-15 K per hit, at range, meaning 50-75k. With lower cd. One would argue that scourge's main job isnt damage, but that means one should know wvw basics. Yes, BASICS. Its 2019, scourges have been nerfed time and again, boons being spammed reign supreme, scrappers adding more sustain than ever, yet we still QQ about... Scourge and its targets.

insert Owen Wilson WOW meme

@Nightshade.2570 said:So to be clear, I see on your picture they are hitting 10 targets for 2-3k each, for a total of 20-30k damage total across 10 targets. So with that in mind, it is okay for a rev to hit 5 targets for 10-15k a piece (it actually sometimes straight up downs people) then rather have the damage spread out across more targets. Okay well I am okay with this then, please remove the scourges ability to damage pulsing from itself, and double the damage that it does to five targets. I think that is quite reasonable. I will take it, as a scourge main I am find with standing out of melee and doing double damage. Im still not even going to do as much damage as rev, but its definitely preferable for a light class to stay out of Melee, and hence in wvw the pirate ship meta is once more reborn.

i'm not sure why you guys are bringing up rev. this isn't about rev. yes, some classes do more damage then necro. necros job is to corrupt boons. that's just how it is. want more damage? play reaper.

also note that there were still two more ticks to that f5 skill, and I was quite obviously in pvp where damage is a lot lower. again tho, its not about damage at all. want f5 damage upped if 10 targets gets nerfed? fine whatever lol.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:This is why they are preferred over reapers and eles which can't hit 10 targets simultaneously.

Yeah..
.that's
the reason they are preferred....

Not sure if serious.

EDIT: Meme added 'cause for me today is Friday:
Tj1ajkM.jpg

Yea, you trying to meme that this is about some damage competition rather than about how many targets they do damage to (aka AoE pressure) really discounted what I said. /sarcasm

lol, ok, sorry for not being direct. Let's try this approach: Scourges are brought to a zerg for boon strip and corrupt. Full stop.

Not because of damage.Not because of the amount of targets they hit.

Boon strip. Boon corrupt.

k?

This person knows how the game works.

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Frankly it doesn't matter how many targets a Scourge can hit. Anet could increase the target cap to 50 and the majority of the time Scourges will still be eating dirt instead of playing and being useful. They are just way way too slow and way way way too easy to kill. I'm sure people have noticed in this core swap event just how many necro orbs drop.. it's uncanny. They just can't seem to stay alive at all.. ever. Now if we take a Rev for example (because Rev was brought up in this thread), if t

I look at it this way, because they are such easy targets, there needs to be some sort of trade-off in the mix. Anet happened to give them a 10 target cap when the shade is combined with the necro itself. Frankly, I don't think this is remotely enough to compensate for how slow they are.

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I don't see how this is a conversation. Necros are needed for boon corruption to deal with the boon sharing, no other class can corrupt as much or as fast as they can, they're certainly not the top damaging class, so who cares if they can hit 10 targets(5 from 2 separate sources), even with hitting that much you still need multiple necros to even make it effective against boon zergs.

We always have people coming in here complaining about aoes having caps to deal with zergs, you're seriously coming in here complaining the opposite?Sometimes these forums are so upside the head.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:I don't see how this is a conversation. Necros are needed for boon corruption to deal with the boon sharing, no other class can corrupt as much or as fast as they can, they're certainly not the top damaging class, so who cares if they can hit 10 targets

The OP didn't really give his opinion on why the higher target cap with shades should be removed so it is difficult to comment on that. But Sand Savant is still the preferred trait in WvW for reasons other than corrupts, which core necro also can do.

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