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Thief - 07/15/2019 Upcoming Balance Notes!!


Xenji.4907

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ThiefIn this update, we are reworking the Shadow Arts trait line for thieves. As a support- and survivalist-focused line, we wanted to refocus it around stronger themes as well as improve the potency of its minor traits. Many of the more passive traits have been adjusted or rebuilt to have more active effects, while some of the more niche traits like Merciful Ambush have been adjusted to have more general-use applications. Meanwhile, new traits like Shadow Savior and reworked traits like Rending Shade will help to provide new ways to approach combat. Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.

  • Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%. Increased damage by 33% in PvE only.

  • Smoke Screen: This skill now creates a ring instead of a line.

  • Infiltrator's Signet: Increased range from 900 to 1,200.

  • The following skills have been removed: Needle Trap, Tripwire, Shadow Trap, Ambush.

  • Traps (Skill Category): This category has been replaced by a new skill category: Preparations.

    • Preparations will function in a similar fashion to trap abilities, but they will not fire unless the thief chooses to trigger them. Each preparation will have a radius of 240 and will produce a variety of results, including the introduction of a portal-type utility that can ferry allies to a location.Prepare Pitfall: This new skill will mark your current area with controlling magic, readying the location to crush enemies when released.
  • Pitfall: This new skill will unleash your pitfall on an area, knocking down foes and delivering constant damage over time.

  • Prepare Thousand Needles: This new skill will mark your current area with inhibiting magic, readying the location to poison enemies.

  • Thousand Needles: This new skill will unleash a hail of needles that immobilizes enemies on impact and repeatedly strikes foes over a short period of time.

  • Prepare Seal Area: This new skill will mark your current area with stifling magic, readying the location to seal enemies in.

  • Seal Area: This new skill will seal your marked area, blocking projectiles and preventing enemies from entering or leaving.

  • Prepare Shadow Portal: This new skill will mark your current location with shadow magic.

  • Shadow Portal: This new skill will unleash the shadow magic at your prepared location, creating a one-way portal that you and your allies can take. Allies traveling through the portal will be granted stealth, and foes around the portal's exit will be weakened. This skill is split between game modes, allowing 5 allies through in PvE and WvW, while only allowing one ally through in PvP.

  • Uncatchable: This skill now also casts Lesser Caltrops when you take falling damage in addition to when dodge rolling, and it also reduces falling damage by 50%.

  • Deadly Arts: This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

    Adept

    • Dagger Training: This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
    • Trapper's Respite: This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
    • Deadly Ambition: Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

    Master

    • Deadly Trapper: This trait has been reworked and renamed Even the Odds.
    • Even the Odds: Inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds on targets you steal from. Gain 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you hit an enemy with a stealth attack.
  • Shadow Arts: Shadow Arts traits have been reworked and moved. The new traits are as follows.

    Minor

    • Concealing Restoration: With this new trait, casting your heal skill grants 2 seconds of stealth.
    • Meld with Shadows: In addition to extending the duration of stealth, this trait now also increases movement speed while in stealth by 50%.
    • Shadow Siphoning: This new trait causes all stealth attacks to siphon health if they hit. Cannot occur more than once per second per target hit.

    Adept

    • Merciful Ambush: This trait has been moved to the adept tier. It no longer increases revive speed and instead causes applying stealth to an ally to heal and revive them over 3 seconds.
    • Shadow's Embrace: This trait has been moved to a different slot in the same tier. Its functionality is unchanged.
    • Hidden Thief: This trait has been moved to the adept tier. It no longer increases movement speed while in stealth. Instead it grants 20% recharge reduction to deceptions.

    Master

    • Shadow Savior: This new trait causes you to heal yourself after shadowstepping. Nearby allies are healed for double the amount you are.
    • Leeching Venoms: This trait has been moved to new slot in the same tier. It no longer reduces recharge of venoms. Instead it causes the thief to stack spider venom automatically while in stealth.
    • Flickering Shadows: This new trait grants 33% damage reduction while revealed.

    Grandmaster

    • Cloaked in Shadow: This trait no longer grants immunity to critical hits. Instead it causes blinding a foe to siphon health.
    • Shadow's Rejuvenation: This trait has not changed.
    • Rending Shade: This trait no longer reduces damage from boonless foes. Instead it inflicts fear in a small area if it hits a boonless foe.

UPDATE:

@Karl McLain.5604 said:

@Karl McLain.5604 said:Being that the notes have gone out early and the theorycraft is in full swing, I want to add one additional note on Preparations.This ability type still carries similar functionality to other abilities that have arm-times. For preparations, the arm time is set at 3 seconds, with the activation being instant for non-damaging ones and 1/4 second for the damaging ones.These abilities have a few unique aspects to them. We're looking forward to seeing the builds and gameplay that you come up with!

-Karl

Just to make sure I understand; Would it take me 3 seconds to place the preparation (as in, be rooted in place) and it's ready to be activated after that
or
do I place it instantly but can move away and I just can't activate it until 3 seconds have passed?

It's a fairly quick 1/2 second cast. I'll look to edit the post and incorporate this info.
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Rending Shade is a simple but really nice change, even with my boon steal build there's always at least one boon up.I prefer revive speed.I preferred damage reduction while stealthedI like the support aspects of some of these changes, both for maneuvering and for filler healing/siphoning from different sources that are semi frequent.There are other Shadowsteps but sword main hand will continue to be awesome.

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The Shadow Portal is the biggest change here. Its certainly not as good as Mesmer Portal, but it does give Thief extra mobility. I expect it to be used quite a fair bit. Non-mainhand dagger condi thief also got a buff, perhaps P/D might be a fine roamer in WvW now. However, beyond that, most of these changes dont really do much. Traits that work on stealth attacks have the big issue that outside of Rifle (for whom none of these traits matter because if your DJ hits, the enemy is dead) noone ever uses Stealth Attacks. After that update where they get 1 second cd whenever they miss, theyre just not worth it.

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Sooooo my SA DE gains all of the following:

  • lifeleech on stealth attack
  • 20% CD reduction on my three deception utilities
  • +2s on my hide in shadows for 6s stealth
  • and a choice of 33% damage reduction when revealed or heal on shadow step

I lose: the revive trait (haha)

Yeah, I'm not complaining

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@Alatar.7364 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I am assuming none of these are going to bring D/P back into the meta at all?

Core D/P maybe, I always believed it to be viable replacement for DD D/P
(after DD nerf of course)
.

Yeah I'm pretty excited to try Core SA Trickery CS/DA D/P after these changes. Could be a good brawler type spec flitting in and out of steath to life leech depending on the numbers of the new changes to SA.

Also looks like it could be a small buff to Medic Thief meme build with rezz/ heal on stealth application and shadowsteps

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@Sizzle Hint.1820 said:LOL is this for real? what a joke

Edit: like srsly you nerf D/P again? Talk abt beating a dead horse …

Gotta admit the portal sounds interesting but thats about it. Seriously Arena net get your kitten together this doesnt cut it. Like at all.

What's exactly a joke about it?

@Helicity.3416 said:

  • +2s on my hide in shadows for 6s stealth

At this point just use withdraw with lower cd for additional siphon? :D

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This looks like a whole lot of fluff to me. Some shuffling around of some traits and unused abilities that ultimately leaves them in much the same state as they were in before, that is - mostly ignored. Most of the new "Preparation" skills look very much like their original trap counterparts except with a remote detonation requirement (think C4 + Detonator instead of a landmine). I'd imagine they'll still be improved somewhat - given thief traps were the absolute bottom of the barrel for ANY class utility skills and it would be very hard to go down from there.

The most interesting thing I see is the Shadow Portal, as this could offer some really great group utility in fractals in place of a Mesmer portal or in WvW/Open World/ JP's. The major deciding factor on whether or not this skill is great or garbage though would be its range, Shadow trap was originally a 10000 range skill which - although huge - was mostly unusable due to it being a shadowstep instead of a port which meant it got caught on every little terrain fault. The new one however sounds like a direct portal akin to the Mesmer's which means this is no longer a problem.The question is though will the range be the same too? It would be REALLY disappointing to have it end up similar to necro's "Sand Swell", something like a 900-1200 range 1-way portal that lasts 5 seconds. Seems like everything they decide to throw "stealth" on gets similar heavy limitations.

As for what they did to SA.. Why? Of all the things that thief needed right now I think this was among the least important. Yes SA is a largely forgotten trait-line that is seldom run at all outside of stealth heavy builds (lol) in PvP/WvW but all they seemed to do to it is move a few things around and rename others, none of this actually looks like it will change anything, SA will still be a forgotten joke and those so-called "support" traits they added are a straight up meme.

Overall it looks like they put a decent amount of effort into thief during this "balance" patch but sadly it appears to be misplaced and focusing on areas that no one really cared about (traps, really?). As a thief main of over 6 years this might make me log in to check it out but since none of the reasons I stopped playing the class were addressed it's unlikely i'd stick around (at least with thief).

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Hummm interesting. I find the trait combination to open more possibilities (but maybe still inferior to other options?)

I like the idea of Shadow shot (D/P 3) and Infiltrators Arrow (SB 5) benefiting from both blind (the grandmaster siphon trait) and shadowstepping (heal, for Shadow savior).

Cloak in Shadow siphoning on blind seems quite interesting with our high blind access on weapons (P/D, Pistol off-hand, staff, etc), utilities, traits/stealth.

Quite like the idea of Withdraw combined with stealth and 50% run speed.

The way the reframe stealth a bit seems like rotations for certain builds using stealth attack would make them more intuitive/fluide.

Condi build using SA seems more doable than before (maybe still subpar). Hum.

The way some of the new traits are made (example with Deadly Ambitions) makes them usable in less restrictive way.

Will have to test to really assess how good/bad it is.

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@Xenji.4907 said:

  • Deadly Arts: This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

    Adept

    • Dagger Training: This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
    • Trapper's Respite: This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
    • Deadly Ambition: Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

Bye bye Mug?

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Will thief now be playable in WvW zergs? Seems like those pitfall skills can be useful. Especially:

Prepare Seal Area: This new skill will mark your current area with stifling magic, readying the location to seal enemies in.Seal Area: This new skill will seal your marked area, blocking projectiles and preventing enemies from entering or leaving.

That would make doing combos with wells even more powerful considering enemies won't be able to run away, given how many scrappers and superspeed buffs there are in WvW

Edit:Also no more meme condi thief trap builds in WvW, hallelujah!

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@Valar Dotalis.6409 said:

  • Deadly Arts
    : This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

    Adept
    • Dagger Training
      : This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
    • Trapper's Respite
      : This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
    • Deadly Ambition
      : Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

Bye bye Mug?

Try re-reading?

  • Confused 1
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@Sobx.1758 said:

  • Deadly Arts
    : This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

    Adept
    • Dagger Training
      : This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
    • Trapper's Respite
      : This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
    • Deadly Ambition
      : Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

Bye bye Mug?

Try re-reading?

Oops, lol. Crisis averted.

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One of the builds I play is p/d condition using the SA line. I see a significant upside wih these changes either from a damage out perspective or one where you focus on sustain.

Now contrary to some that claimed few use stealth to attack p/d does in fact do this and pops in and out of stealth with regularity. My own build uses tormenting runes and these gives a decent heal on every application of torment. Now I can envision taking the shadowstep heal trait along with stealth on heal coupled with withdraw and the shadows rejuv where one heals while stealthed and everytime I use a shadowstrike i get the heal off torment runes due to torment app, the heal off the shadowstep and a heal if i pop into stealth. The shadow siphoningh is also intriguing dependent on the heal size.

Alternatively I can take the new venom trait to stack spider venom stealthed and mix this with deadly ambition and even the odds out of the DA line and this should see a significant boost in Condition adds.

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