A Quick History

[Jski.6180]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

I dunno you but if I design something to be squishy I would give it the tools to avoid damage instead than give it skills/traits that activate only on damage taken on top of melee focused combat. You either face tank dmg or you avoid it...there is no magical solution inbetween , so now shall we give ele : stealth?...taken....blocks?.....taken.

People tried to go damage build using scepter ...anet nerfed the damage as the community considered it unfair to play againstPeople tried to go melee using daggers...anet nerfed damage and sustain as the community considered it unfair to play againstPeople now try to go melee using evade sword...anet has started to nerf it because the community consider it unfair to play against

What about we redesign ele as concept?...too much work you say?...delete it then?.....ha you say it's absurd to suggest so...then drop the whiteknight role and you come up with a solution

There is no solution that will stop people from complaining.

Making conja weapons a kit would go a long way to dealing with the main complaints of ppl. It would give ele an wepon swap with out giving it an wepon swap the main complain over all ppl have about the ele class.

Making conjured weapons a kit would make this class an even bigger balance mess. Ele has enough weapon skills to balance as it is. Conjures should be removed, so that ele doesn't have to get balanced around unneeded extra skills. It's extra bloat for no reason and makes balancing PvE with PvP performance even more difficult.

They allready did this with FB and rev so... i am not sure if your argument holds any water.

What exactly did they do? They didn't add kits or conjures or any other utilities that give more weapon skills. Guardian tomes got removed as utilities a long time ago and got reintroduced as an elite spec. Ele is the profession with the most weapon skills baseline and gets more of them from conjures for no reason really. Then they are also clunky on top of it to add insult to injury. Everything conjures can do could easily be part of the core ele weapon sets.

They added in more skills for these classes FB by getting books giving it 15 more skills and rev by giving it an wepon swap ability only 10 more skills. Ele dose not have the most skills FB dose as well as eng. They top 3ed party programs that often give guess numbers of what was hit and in what state it was hit. Your missing the fact that conjure weapons have massive cd of 1 min (non elite) with a duration of 30 sec and are not stand alone weapons sets (as in they cant fill a full roll on there own they do one maybe 2 task but stop short of being an complete wepon set). As well as long cast time that in a rotation is game braking something eng kits do not have even books cast time dose not mess up rotate as badly as ele conja weapons.

Making conja weapons a kit would fix a lot of problems with the ele class and would be the least amount of work for anet devs.

I'm not missing anything. You are missing the point of my suggestion. The problem with conjures is that you are adding needless skills to a profession that already has the most. Weaver for example doesn't need to have conjures. You rightly said that Firebrand has lots of skills. Well, imagine if FB keeps those skills and then they give it conjures on top of that. That's how ele is atm. How much of a CD conjures have is pretty irrelevant. They still contain skills that the devs balance rotations around and having such clunky skills in your rotation simply does not works well.

Now if they became kits it would not be as clunky, that's true. But do you have any idea how much they would nerf ele if it could use kits? You would be able to have 40 weapon skills and rotations would get even more complex with weapon skills getting nerfed again so that the DPS does not get too high. We've seen where this sort of stuff leads. Ele would be much better off if conjures were removed and the weapon skills were balanced without conjures interfering with that balance. You don't need conjures to be competitive if they balance eles around not having them.

So ele needs a means of chasing its wepon attk type during combat. Most classes do this by swaping wepon eng dose this but means of kits ele can kind of do this by using conja weapons but the cast time and cd makes it so ineffective your better off just giving up the ability to changes your attk and hope some one can just cover for you in that moment.Ele is right now less of a mages and more of an wepon specialize. It is locked into an wepon and with in that wepon the ele is locked into an attk type. Anet has comply failed at making atuments very enofe to make a good reason for ele to be locked in. Your dagger is going to be melee the few 600+ attks are far weaker and do not even add enofe effects to keep ppl from simply ruining away. Staff attks are often too slow with out any means of letting its attks go any fast in any way. Scepter attks are very well "cone" much like staff they are in some way slow with the lack of means of making them faster (fresh air is more about swaping for attks not the wepon it self). Sword is about the only complete wepon but it still lacks a good ranged attk.There is a need for dagger user to have a real ranged attk there a need for staff user to have a fast attk there a need for scepter user to have hard to pivot attk and there a need for sword to have a real ranged attk as well. Conja weapons are the only tool ele has to add real verity to its attk atuments simply fall falt in this roll.

So there good reasion to ask for conaj wepons to be kits. Ask your self when was the last time you realy used a conaj wepon as an real tool in it self vs just a hold over for 1 trick?

Ele hasn't ever

needed

a way to change their weapon range. It was all fine until the class got nerfed and all the power crept specs of PoF were releases. Changing range wouldn't be bad though, but that is easily achievable with weapon reworks or a new elite spec that has a weapon with both melee and ranged. You do not need to make conjures into kits and get into the balancing nightmare that can only end with elementalist becoming worse than it has ever been.

The atuments should be that though and they always needed it. The class always had problems even when it was viewed as being op in the early days of d/d ele in wvw. Yet it was tolerated by the player base because it could not do any thing to siege on walls or to players out side of the old Swirling Winds siege block trick.

Ele is NOT a mages in gw2 it is a wepon specialized. The roll of atuments was there to changes how the ele attks but it was over all messed up by anet as they simply made copys of skill from atument to atument with only small varying effects.

Conjures weapons are to ele as eng is to kits but conjures weapons have massive cool downs and longish cast time for there effect. Ele needs a rework to all of its weapons skills to give it a real variation to its attk with in mind that it can only use one wepon at a time OR conjures weapons needs to be more kit like if not comply made into kits. Out side of that any buff any update short of this is pointless.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

Benchmarks is really not a good way to decide whether a class is good or not,

Meteor shower is literally all eles have where Revs have Hammer and Dwarf, Necros have boon corruption and barrier, firebrands have stability, Scrappers have decent healing and Condi to boon conversion

They really are. A benchmark doesn't tell the whole story, but it still tells a good one.

Your complaint about the singularity of a class can be mirrored across every profession in the game. That's how the meta works: the professions on the top have one or two tricks, and they're in the meta because of it. As soon as that trick is nerfed, the class drops out of the meta. For example, Spellbreakers dropped off the face of the Earth in WvW when Winds of Disenchantment was nerfed. For another example, Necromancers went from Best in Slot for every raid boss with multiple targets to only one because Epidemic was cut in half.

When Ele's had their one trick nerfed (meteor shower and ice storm), they actually lucked out, because they had viable alternatives, and those skills still work well in WvW.

[lLobo.7960]

Ele is in no way in the horrible spot that people here say.

Ele in WvW zergs is still great if you have any idea of how to position yourself. The new event made it even nicer as you can use ranger stolen skills to give yourself stability and quickness to get those MS out.Ele in WvW roaming and PvP have viable builds with fire-weaver or water-weaver. Celestial d/d weaver can still be very nice if you are one of the 3 people that actually put effort into learning it.In PvE ele is still meta for fractals and raids with power sword weaver. Staff is viable, tempest is viable... not optimal, but viable...

There is a lot that can be done to improve certain things with ele.A blunt increase in dmg on weapons might not be it, but trait reworks/reviews/pass would definitely make possible for different playstyles that are just not viable at the moment. Core ele need some advantage over the elite specs, and that should come from traits, by accessing more elemental traitlines, core ele should have something to be competitive or at least a viable option.

Ele has potential for a massive amount of versatility and specialization. Since its baseline is so raw (low hp, low armor, low dmg modifiers on weapons) traitlines should be the key to achieve high potential at certain things at the cost of having nothing else... A glass canon ele, traited fully for offense, should be able to hit like a canon at the cost of not having defenses or buffs, while a sturdy ele (water/earth/arcane) should be able to tank and hold his own at the cost of having very little dmg...

[solemn.9608]

Gentlemen. There is a solution here you’re not seeing :lol:

Fire sw/d weaver was arguably a littlebit OP in the right hands before this upcoming patch. Now, good players running this build will be nigh unstoppable 1v1 and 1v2.

Anet killed staff ele, and I’m sad about it, but I’m pretty sure they just buffed a build that REALLY did not need to be buffed :lol: 7000 burn ticks after only a few seconds, coming your way very soon, and bonus: now with reduced primordial stance cooldown

[steki.1478]

@solemn.9608 said:Gentlemen. There is a solution here you’re not seeing :lol:

Fire sw/d weaver was arguably a littlebit OP in the right hands before this upcoming patch. Now, good players running this build will be nigh unstoppable 1v1 and 1v2.

Anet killed staff ele, and I’m sad about it, but I’m pretty sure they just buffed a build that REALLY did not need to be buffed :lol: 7000 burn ticks after only a few seconds, coming your way very soon, and bonus: now with reduced primordial stance cooldown

That's what I'm trying to say. You might lose cleanse from fire auras, but sun spot and primordial stance will burn a lot more.

On top of that a lot of pvp/roaming builds got nerfed and there's a potential removal of health on rampage (notes say toughness, but rampage doesn't grant toughness) which makes warr/engi even easier to kill during that time with a condi build.

Summer's gonna be extra hot this year.