Balance Patch appreciation thread

Dahkeus.8243 · July 12, 2019

Looks like a lot of nerfs to bursty specs and a lot of buffs to tanky specs with a lot of other buffs that may make other tanky builds become meta. I'm not a rev expert, but I expect that they will overall benefit from this patch a lot since they rely on having a support build with them and won't have much competition from other burst builds.

Dragonhunter is the only other damage build that may be improved as well since they got some small direct buffs along with some big indirect buffs from the Soulbeast unblockable nerfs.

I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

Zenix.6198 · July 12, 2019

@Dahkeus.8243 said:
I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

Not sure what merit that statement has.Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

Sampson.2403 · July 12, 2019

Impossible odds movement speed reduction is lame

Psycoprophet.8107 · July 12, 2019

Soul eater should heal in shroud only

Dahkeus.8243 · July 12, 2019

@Zenix.6198 said:
@Dahkeus.8243 said:
I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

Not sure what merit that statement has.Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

It may not be a bunker meta, per say, since a lot of the changes weren't necessarily towards big fight bunker specs, but there were still a lot of buffs to support utility and damage reduction.

Bunker scrapper got some nerfs, but also a huge buff from Function gyro. Not sure why any buffs/nerfs to chrono bunker would matter.

Tempest and Thief are probably the wild cards though. I don't know ele enough to know whether the Tempest stuff will matter much for PvP, but the buff to overloads certainly makes water overloads a pretty massive heal. If thief ends up getting any support builds, they'll almost certainly be completely obnoxious as they always are, even though they've never been meta.

JusticeRetroHunter.7684 · July 12, 2019

@Dahkeus.8243 said:
@Zenix.6198 said:
@Dahkeus.8243 said:
I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

Not sure what merit that statement has.Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

It may not be a bunker meta, per say, since a lot of the changes weren't necessarily towards big fight bunker specs, but there were still a lot of buffs to support utility and damage reduction.

Bunker scrapper got some nerfs, but also a huge buff from Function gyro. Not sure why any buffs/nerfs to chrono bunker would matter.

Tempest and Thief are probably the wild cards though. I don't know ele enough to know whether the Tempest stuff will matter much for PvP, but the buff to overloads certainly makes water overloads a pretty massive heal. If thief ends up getting any support builds, they'll almost certainly be completely obnoxious as they always are, even though they've never been meta.

For ele, they are nominal changes. Most of the changes are okay for tempest. But nothing of major impact.

Thief however is a different story...defined run a wild card. I predict Deadeyes with shadow portals. But there may be some really cool kitten with shadow arts that could come into the gold as well. Daredevil still dead tho until swipe gets reverted.

MithranArkanere.8957 · July 12, 2019

Things are moving in the right direction.

Now that scrapper and chronomancer have profession mechanic tradeoffs, there's just 2 more left to do:

Mirage shatters still transfer from core mesmer. It would be interesting to tie one or more shatters to the ambush mechanic. For example:
- F1 : Applies torment on enemies that were moving when hit by the clones on top of its usual damage. Quite longer recharge, but has its recharge reduced by several seconds every time you hit an enemy with an Ambush.
- F2 : Confusion duration scales with distance between the mirage and the target, with longer confusion the closer the mirage is to the target. Same duration as core mesmer at 600 units.
- F3 : Dazed reduced to just 0.25s, but it also cripples. If 3 clones shatter against the same target, it also immobilizes.
- F4 : Shorter distortion than core (core distortion would be increased to 2s), but swaps places with a clone when used.
Core ranger needs an F5 so it gets traded by elites. I'd go with something like one of these:
- F5 causes a tag-team pet attack. The alternate pet enters, both pets do their F2 at the same time, and they swap.
- F5 causes the alternate pet to join in the fight for a bit. While this effect is active F4 is disabled, F5 becomes that pet's F2 attack, and F1 and F3 work on both pets. When the effect ends, pet swap goes on recharge for 15s.
- F5 makes the pet invulnerable for a few seconds.
- F5 gives more control over your pet. While toggled on:
  - F1 becomes ground-targeted allowing you to target where your pet moves exactly
  - F2 becomes unblockable, but takes 25% longer to recharge.
  - F3 makes your pet dodgeroll (or just evade if its model can't dodgeroll) and move behind its target.
  - F4 makes your swapped in pet spawn right at the target's location rather than next to you.

Once tradeoffs are done, it'd be time to have a look at stealth and combo finishers and rework them to address their issues.

Dahkeus.8243 · July 12, 2019

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
@Dahkeus.8243 said:
@Zenix.6198 said:
@Dahkeus.8243 said:
I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

Not sure what merit that statement has.Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

It may not be a bunker meta, per say, since a lot of the changes weren't necessarily towards big fight bunker specs, but there were still a lot of buffs to support utility and damage reduction.

Bunker scrapper got some nerfs, but also a huge buff from Function gyro. Not sure why any buffs/nerfs to chrono bunker would matter.

Tempest and Thief are probably the wild cards though. I don't know ele enough to know whether the Tempest stuff will matter much for PvP, but the buff to overloads certainly makes water overloads a pretty massive heal. If thief ends up getting any support builds, they'll almost certainly be completely obnoxious as they always are, even though they've never been meta.

For ele, they are nominal changes. Most of the changes are okay for tempest. But nothing of major impact.

Thief however is a different story...defined run a wild card. I predict Deadeyes with shadow portals. But there may be some really cool kitten with shadow arts that could come into the gold as well. Daredevil still dead tho until swipe gets reverted.

Yea, thief could definitely be wild. I mean, will we see D/P come back as DA/Tr/SA? Will the Shadow Savior trait be good enough that it makes it ideal for sword builds? I doubt it would replace a trait line in the meta S/D build, but maybe a S/P build would be viable? If Flickering Shadows doesn't have an internal cooldown, will people abuse it for a Thief bunker build or sorts?

ZhouX.8742 · July 12, 2019

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

People are definitely sleeping on condi weaver, but I wouldn't call it obvious top tier the way Firebrand+Scourge+Herald are for MATS, and Spellbreaker+Holo+Scrapper+Soulbeast+Herald are for ranked.

If you think you're going to see soulbeast after destroying it basically without giving anything back , then you're mistaken. It's pretty much out of meta at this point and will only provide super super niche roles aka no longer a meta option.

Holo got significant nerfs as well, I just don't think it'll be that good

This alone makes weaver much better in positions than it used to be, on top of the buffs it received for duelist weaver - I guarantee you it'll be an option now.

otto.5684 · July 12, 2019

I think appreciation is a very strong word. I will say the changes do not absolutely suck, but good? Nope.

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..

?! I mean if you say FB, I agree. Core guardian, DH? Dude, get out of G1.

@Ryan.9387 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

Is it though? SB, sage FB, boon beast, CI mirage, holo and scrapper can all win solo against weaver, assuming equal skill level.

Multicolorhipster.9751 · July 12, 2019

@Falan.1839 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:Holosmith hasn't received any serious nerfs since December of last year. All is right with the world.

So halving Stab uptime on Corona Burst wasn't a serious nerf? Also Laser's Edge will probably get nerfed, even though it is hard to say without numbers. Right now it's a 15% dmg Buff that can be kept up fairly constantly (>50 heat). I assume will scale from 1-10% with the new system. And Eli X won't be a factor with the high cd anymore either.The nerfs on Holo aren't as hard as on Rev, but definitely harder than on War for example.

Holo actually got straight buffed. Elixir X's CD wasn't increased, it was just normalized between gamemodes. It's always been 105s, 86s with HGH. If Laser's Edge scales up to 50% with the enhanced capacity trait, it's safe to say that's also a straight multiplicative damage buff to Holo, because adding 50 extra heat wouldn't scale it to a maximum of 50%. Not consistently anyway.

Don't even play around and say Holo got hit harder than Warrior. Rampage for anyone playing Defense Warrior is 120s now, 96 for anyone playing Strength. To compensate Rampage was given a 50% damage reduction in general, but with Elixir X Holo and Engie have Rampage on a shorter CD and at a longer duration than even Strength Warrior does.

Ryan.9387 · July 12, 2019

@otto.5684 said:I think appreciation is a very strong word. I will say the changes do not absolutely suck, but good? Nope.
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..

?! I mean if you say FB, I agree. Core guardian, DH? Dude, get out of G1.

@Ryan.9387 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:No nerfs to scourge.. kitten Anet?

Outside of adding a 1s global cooldown between shade skills I actually can't imagine any nerfs necromancer specifically needs. It's exceptionally strong in the right circumstances but also very limited in it's role and what it can do with a very specific niche. That's how every build should be.

So still FB + 2 scourge every game. This patch won’t change a thing. Except we will see more eles. And how are buffs to guardians needed?? Are they even playing this game mode. Last nail in the coffin I’m afraid.

Idk. I've played 100 plat 1-2 games and while scourges and reapers on both teams aren't uncommmon Firebrands on either team feel very uncommon. People don't queue on Firebrand, even top tier PvPers, because playing Firebrand or dedicated support in general just makes you so dependent on everyone else on your team actually performing their roles. At this point Firebrand feels like an Automated Tournament only build.

Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the meta won’t change. Also Buffing already strong classes won’t help the balance of this game..

No top tier spec was specifically buffed. Firebrand+Scourge will remain strong in ranked but that's about it.

Except weaver which is arguably top tier for sidepoint 1v1s.

Is it though? SB, sage FB, boon beast, CI mirage, holo and scrapper can all win solo against weaver, assuming equal skill level.

There is very little weaver talent in pvp atm, so the strength of the class isn't really apparent atm.

Psycoprophet.8107 · July 12, 2019

@Ryan.9387 said:
@otto.5684 said:I think appreciation is a very strong word. I will say the changes do not absolutely suck, but good? Nope.
@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Guardian/DH did not need buffs imo. The most popular classes need to be catered to keep people playing the game I guess..