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Ele changes in the latest patch notes


steki.1478

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@"Auburner.6945" said:Earth line is still pointless because Arcane is a must pick for any Ele build in order to duel, which leaves us with one slot left if running an e-spec. Clearly all other lines have either better control, sustain, damage vs the tons of 'IFs" in Earth that still provides no Resistance or consistent Stab to be considered a solid pick vs conditions or CC spam. Still the lose-lose line.

It may be pointless in pvp but in WvW, Earth line is almost a must for auramancer and healing tempest.

A patch that nerfs (minus) dps weaver but gives a slight buff (plus) to healing tempest, so I guess this is what ANet meant by balanced patch.

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I think sword will be fine. However, staff got another needless nerf and it's probably a completely trash weapon now. Way to enforce the scourge and herald meta in WvW even harder. There needs to be a fire master trait that is focused on power, because having two condi traits makes no sense. Also, staff finally needs to be seriously looked at by the balance devs. It's the slowest weapon in the game for mediocre damage and some okay CC. It's not good enough. Also, I feel the need to point out that arcane fury needs to return now. The reason why it was changed to might is because speccing air gave lots of fury from raging storm. Now you can choose not to take the fury since it's a major trait, so there is no reason for the arcane adept minor to give 1 stack of might anymore. Change it back to fury.

Apart from that the changes are not that bad and the direction they want to go in is nice, but the glaring oversights soured what otherwise would have been a good patch.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:I think sword will be fine. However, staff got another needless nerf and it's probably a completely trash weapon now. Way to enforce the scourge and herald meta in WvW even harder. There needs to be a fire master trait that is focused on power, because having two condi traits makes no sense. Also, staff finally needs to be seriously looked at by the balance devs. It's the slowest weapon in the game for mediocre damage and some okay CC. It's not good enough. Also, I feel the need to point out that arcane fury needs to return now. The reason why it was changed to might is because speccing air gave lots of fury from raging storm. Now you can choose not to take the fury since it's a major trait, so there is no reason for the arcane adept minor to give 1 stack of might anymore. Change it back to fury.

Apart from that the changes are not that bad and the direction they want to go in is nice, but the glaring oversights soured what otherwise would have been a good patch.

Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

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Tempest getting a nice buff you may even see freash air tempest be a thing now.The fire line dmg nerf was kind of coming i images the dmg buff we got in this update on the non fire line water air even weaver will be nerfed in time. Anet is normalizing ele dmg that why i go on about the lack of effect to make up for that normalization. Anet dose not want ele as a class to be a main class they want to keep it a 2ed class. There no dev working on it and it messed up raids a lot.

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It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on Raging Storm and Aeromancer's Training. You get a paltry 3% increase to Swift Revenge, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

And I really, really, really do not understand the new Burning Rage trait. Sorry but Sunspot sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

@lLobo.7960 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.In suggesting that
Fireball
,
Lava Font
and
Meteor Shower
apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

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@Usagi.4835 said:It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on Raging Storm and Aeromancer's Training. You get a paltry 3% increase to Swift Revenge, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

And I really, really, really do not understand the new Burning Rage trait. Sorry but Sunspot sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

@Ganathar.4956 said:Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.In suggesting that
Fireball
,
Lava Font
and
Meteor Shower
apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

Burning rage makes sunspot pretty strong in pve as well as any sword weaver build.

I'm just waiting for burn weaver to be the next resident sleeper OP build in spvp. Almost all meta builds there got nerfed which was the main problem of weaver (and it got buffed on top of it).

Just wait before you judge anything. 10% loss isnt end of the world, but the buffs and QoL are a huge improvement.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Usagi.4835 said:It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on
Raging Storm
and
Aeromancer's Training
. You get a paltry 3% increase to
Swift Revenge
, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

And I really, really,
really
do not understand the new
Burning Rage
trait. Sorry but
Sunspot
sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

@Ganathar.4956 said:Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.In suggesting that
Fireball
,
Lava Font
and
Meteor Shower
apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

Burning rage makes sunspot pretty strong in pve as well as any sword weaver build.

I'm just waiting for burn weaver to be the next resident sleeper OP build in spvp. Almost all meta builds there got nerfed which was the main problem of weaver (and it got buffed on top of it).

Just wait before you judge anything. 10% loss isnt end of the world, but the buffs and QoL are a huge improvement.

Wouldn't be surprised if condi ele benchmarks got a significant bump in this patch in PvE. It's probably the ele build that gets buffed the most in this patch. Burning rage may end up being better than power overwhelming (this trait should get replaced as soon as possible btw). Burning precision extra burning will also give a bit of extra damage. The primordial stance buff will be also be very nice. Last but not least, condi ele builds will now get the 20% fire skill CD reduction for free, which is huge.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Usagi.4835 said:It really is simple. All that had to be done was to revert the nerfs from last year or otherwise split them between PvE (where numbers can be tweaked on NPCs) and PvP/WvW. Bear in mind, when that patch came out, they didn't do anything to compensate builds which revolved around and are meant to function in a DPS role. So it seemed to me that ele fell by the wayside as other classes and builds performed better. I'm still waiting for actual tradeoffs for holo (sustain, mobility, cc, damage) and for them to address damage on other classes.

In folding the attunement cd traits into the GM minors, they've somewhat sneakily further shaved the ferocity numbers on
Raging Storm
and
Aeromancer's Training
. You get a paltry 3% increase to
Swift Revenge
, which is conditional. But you also lose the 10% damage increase while attuned to fire.

And I really, really,
really
do not understand the new
Burning Rage
trait. Sorry but
Sunspot
sucks. It's absolute garbage. There are a bunch of these traits littered throughout ele traitlines that augment garbage effects that are utterly inconsequential in PvP/WvW. And now you have two condi traits competing for one another in the same column. Why? I liked the change to Overloads but you really have to scratch your head and wonder why they thought some of these changes were a good idea.

@Ganathar.4956 said:Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.In suggesting that
Fireball
,
Lava Font
and
Meteor Shower
apply burning, I'm leery of further nerfs to their damage to compensate for adding burning. Staff was fine and rewarding to play before the successive nerfs last year. Therein lies the solution.

Burning rage makes sunspot pretty strong in pve as well as any sword weaver build.

I'm just waiting for burn weaver to be the next resident sleeper OP build in spvp. Almost all meta builds there got nerfed which was the main problem of weaver (and it got buffed on top of it).

Just wait before you judge anything. 10% loss isnt end of the world, but the buffs and QoL are a huge improvement.

Wouldn't be surprised if condi ele benchmarks got a significant bump in this patch in PvE. It's probably the ele build that gets buffed the most in this patch. Burning rage may end up being better than power overwhelming (this trait should get replaced as soon as possible btw). Burning precision extra burning will also give a bit of extra damage. The primordial stance buff will be also be very nice. Last but not least, condi ele builds will now get the 20% fire skill CD reduction for free, which is huge.

Exactly. Burning rage gives 180 condi in fire (on top of extra burns) while power overwhelming gave around 200-250 with vipers iirc (while sacrificing cooldowns).

Combine that with earth skill cooldown reduction (condi conversion trait in earth used to compete with cdr, now you can have both) as well as primordial stance and burning precision buffs and you get a very strong condi build for pve.

In fact, I think that even core ele can have options now because arcane can also bring some burns, bleeds (and immobs which turn into bleeds), but probably not something raid worthy. Grieving fire+FA sword/dagger build with flame legion (or maybe balt/berserker) runes also looks very competitive.

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@lLobo.7960 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:I think sword will be fine. However, staff got another needless nerf and it's probably a completely trash weapon now. Way to enforce the scourge and herald meta in WvW even harder. There needs to be a fire master trait that is focused on power, because having two condi traits makes no sense. Also, staff finally needs to be seriously looked at by the balance devs. It's the slowest weapon in the game for mediocre damage and some okay CC. It's not good enough. Also, I feel the need to point out that arcane fury needs to return now. The reason why it was changed to might is because speccing air gave lots of fury from raging storm. Now you can choose not to take the fury since it's a major trait, so there is no reason for the arcane adept minor to give 1 stack of might anymore. Change it back to fury.

Apart from that the changes are not that bad and the direction they want to go in is nice, but the glaring oversights soured what otherwise would have been a good patch.

Make fireball, lava fount, and meteors apply burning. Make skill 3 copy burning from the target to 5 other foes. Staff need some more condi.Make arcane fury provide lesser arcane power on attunement swap (lesser arcane power: critical hit with your next 3 attacks, gain extra ferocity). This will not make fury easy to access, but will give the ele some nice burst for when swaping attunements and will have some cool interaction with arcane utility traits.

I don't agree that staff needs more condi. It's fine if it stays as a power weapon. However, it does need quite a few changes. They need to replace power overwhelming with an actual power trait instead of having two master condi traits. They also need to make staff earth and air much stronger than they currently are. Staff got decimated because it has an over-reliance on its fire skills and traits that affect those skills specifically. They really need to do something in the very next patch because I do not see damage ele having any place in WvW zergs anymore, and it's not like support tempest is solid enough competition either right now. Instead of making the WvW meta more diverse, they ended up making it less so, even though this patch had pretty good ele changes in general.

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Hey all - the Elementalist notes were missing an entry from the initial posting:

  • Power Overwhelming: This trait has been reworked. It now grants 150 bonus power while the elementalist has at least 10 stacks of might. This power bonus is doubled while attuned to fire.

Sorry about that - it was a change made early, but with the note coming in a bit late. That should be all the notes.

New update to the notes that a bit confusing its a power dmg effect that dose condi dmg staff realy will need more condi base dmg attk or ways to add burning bleed maybe even torment to make these things work out.

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ok with that make up notes on Power Overwhelming, I think ele will actually be really good after the patch (since it basically got straight up buffed in all 3 game modes) and this is probably the first patch since PoF came out where I have to double check what I'm saying because the past history of ele's with this balance team were not good.

hopefully it doesn't become braindead OP and gets nuked into being useless again (especially in spvp, which seem like it may become OP)

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Ok I need someone to help me know for certain because I’m not great with this sort of stuff - which is really better ? 10% damage or 300 power? How much % equivalent would 300 power be, roughly? Is 10% on top of all the other % stacking effects more than the relative increase by power increase?

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@solemn.9608 said:Ok I need someone to help me know for certain because I’m not great with this sort of stuff - which is really better ? 10% damage or 300 power? How much % equivalent would 300 power be, roughly? Is 10% on top of all the other % stacking effects more than the relative increase by power increase?

In most changes I have seen, Anet has been equating 10% damage to 240 power. So 24 power is around 1% damage.

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@solemn.9608 said:Ok I need someone to help me know for certain because I’m not great with this sort of stuff - which is really better ? 10% damage or 300 power? How much % equivalent would 300 power be, roughly? Is 10% on top of all the other % stacking effects more than the relative increase by power increase?

if you're in full berserk ascended gear + scholar rune + standard fire/air/weaver line & attuned to fire as main hand, your power is 2827 without +power infusions & food (3017 with) and it seems like +300 power is roughly 10% of that while +150 is 5%, so I guess before patch it's flat +10% but only in fire attunement whereas now you can either have +5% or +10% but you need at least 10 might, which isn't an issue in pve but maybe in wvw if you're talking about buffs coming from only yourself. Kind of sucks now that you have to camp fire and spam some filler skills a little to get 10 might from Pyromancer's Puissance before casting your MS if you want full dmg bonus for example, but maybe the qol cd reductions and and swift revenge buff makes up for it.

The 10% on top of other % stacking effects shouldn't matter as long as they all work the same way (i.e. all multiplicative or all additive)

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Its a big buff to core s/f fresh air roamer tho, since fresh air roamer doesn't need fire trait , so fire doesn't affect it.

Flow like Water: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Aquamancer's Training and increases damage dealt by 10% while the elementalist is above 75% health. Additionally, it heals the elementalist when they block or evade an attack. The healing effect has a 10-second cooldown.Piercing Shards: This trait now grants half its 20% bonus damage to vulnerable foes when not attuned to water. The full bonus damage is still applied while attuned to water.Aeromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on air weapon skills by 20% and grants 150 ferocity. The ferocity bonus is doubled while attuned to air.Raging Storm: This trait has been moved to the master tier as a major trait, and it has a new icon. The ferocity bonus granted by this trait has been reduced from 240 to 180.

So, let me explain.

  • Flow like Water basically improves old aquamancer training, and gives it heal on evade / block with 10s cooldown. That buffed ele's survival and damage when hp is under 90%.Before, scholar runes and aquamancer training requiers 90% hp to gain 10+10% damage modifier. Now, you still have 10% damage modifier after 90% hp.

  • Piercing Shards: Thats one of the best changes. So, elementalist still have 10% extra damage to vulnerable foes not in water. Take notes!

  • Aeromancer's Training: gives 300 ferocity, 180 before.

  • Raging Storm: basically, this trait can be replaced now by Stormsoul which increases stun duration and increases 10% damage to disabled foes.

10 to 20% from Piercing Shards, 10 to 20% from runes and Flow Like Water, 10% from Stormsoul, total of 30 to 50% damage modifier.Before patch, you wont have damage modifier from piercing shards when not in water, 10% from Stormsoul by sacrificing aeromancer training.Now, you can get all those modifier without being in water n sacrificing ferocity from aeromancer. Thats a big buff to s/f to me.

Sadly, i just posted a thread about Elementalist in wvw blobing days ago, and anet nerfed fire staff ...

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At the 3000 Power mark with no food/utility or Might, the 300 Power will come on par with the 10% damage modifier, but we shouldn't forget that 90 Ferocity (Raging Storm is now 180, so minus 60 from 150 of Aeromancer's Training) and 3% from Swift Revenge will somehow try to stand on the side of the new change, which means it's higher damage. The change will be a slight buff to the damage for every single attunement, all combined it means something; it will mostly shine in PvE.

If an Ele has 4000 Power, which favors the 10% over 300 Power, then it would be 4400...vs the augmented Power that is 4300.

  • If in Fire then 4300 1.03 (New swift revenge) 1.06 (90 ferocity buff globally) is ~4700, which is higher than 4400
  • If in Air then 4150 1.03 1.04 (60 Ferocity; old Raging Storm and Aero were 420 in Air, now it's 480) is ~4450, higher than 4000 (the trait was only functional in Fire)

If my Ferocity calculations are correct then it's great for DPS Ele.

An overall buff for WvW/PvP and great for PvE given the Primordial Stance and Burning Precision buffs.

Weaver will probably contest in PvP meta now - would be below SpB - don't know about Holo or new Thief buffs. It might be broken though, which is a bit scary for the class to get hardly nerfed again.

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That is comforting, thanks for making it more clear - been working so haven't had much time yet to process these changes. I will have to try out staff weaver next week and see if its any different - from what you guys have said I'm expecting my damage to be close to what it was before.

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@"len.7809" said:Its a big buff to core s/f fresh air roamer tho, since fresh air roamer doesn't need fire trait , so fire doesn't affect it.

Flow like Water: This new trait takes the slot previously occupied by Aquamancer's Training and increases damage dealt by 10% while the elementalist is above 75% health. Additionally, it heals the elementalist when they block or evade an attack. The healing effect has a 10-second cooldown.Piercing Shards: This trait now grants half its 20% bonus damage to vulnerable foes when not attuned to water.
The full bonus damage is still applied while attuned to water
.Aeromancer's Training: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster minor slot, and its functionality has changed. It now reduces recharge on air weapon skills by 20% and grants 150 ferocity. The ferocity bonus is doubled while attuned to air.Raging Storm: This trait has been moved to the master tier as a major trait, and it has a new icon. The ferocity bonus granted by this trait has been reduced from 240 to 180.

So, let me explain.
  • Flow like Water basically improves old aquamancer training, and gives it heal on evade / block with 10s cooldown. That buffed ele's survival and damage when hp is under 90%.Before, scholar runes and aquamancer training requiers 90% hp to gain 10+10% damage modifier. Now, you still have 10% damage modifier after 90% hp.
  • Piercing Shards: Thats one of the best changes. So, elementalist still have 10% extra damage to vulnerable foes not in water.
    Take notes!
  • Aeromancer's Training: gives 300 ferocity, 180 before.
  • Raging Storm: basically, this trait can be replaced now by
    which increases stun duration and increases 10% damage to disabled foes.

10 to 20% from Piercing Shards, 10 to 20% from runes and Flow Like Water, 10% from Stormsoul, total of 30 to 50% damage modifier.
Before patch, you wont have damage modifier from piercing shards when not in water, 10% from Stormsoul by sacrificing aeromancer training.Now, you can get all those modifier without being in water n sacrificing ferocity from aeromancer. Thats a big buff to s/f to me.

Sadly, i just posted a thread about Elementalist in wvw blobing days ago, and anet nerfed fire staff ...

On one side I really like prot, swiftness, immob and block from arcane, but free 20% dmg from water seems pretty juicy as well... Fire/earth dual on scepter also has vuln and high damage so it can be a very strong opener followed by beam and air stuff.

This patch opens a lot of different builds actually.

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Lol, as a power staff tempest, seems weird that I'm the one getting the nerf. Especially since fire and bunker weavers were the only ele builds that were occasionally complained about, yet those got buffed. Then again, maybe its only in pvp that power staff tempest underperforms. Haven't done much wvw....

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@thepolishman.2348 said:Lol, as a power staff tempest, seems weird that I'm the one getting the nerf. Especially since fire and bunker weavers were the only ele builds that were occasionally complained about, yet those got buffed. Then again, maybe its only in pvp that power staff tempest underperforms. Haven't done much wvw....

Power staff tempest wasnt a thing since mid HoT. It's still decent in open world pve, but it's far from being a competitive build anywhere else.

Pve tempest as dps is mostly useful with FA builds or fully focused on burns+might stacking, in both situations with warhorn. Outside of those it's used as healer. Dps tempest was never a thing in pvp and wvw, even core ele outscales it by a lot.

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