Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Thief - 07/15/2019 Upcoming Balance Notes!!


Xenji.4907

Recommended Posts

If support healer thief is now a real thing then i'm happy for those who wanted to support more in PvP/WvW but i'm looking forward to healing skills stealth you and healing while shadow stepping. The applications to that are amazing when you compare it with just healing from mug. If you are a S/D thief for example you with have Steal, Sword 2, and Shadow Step utility skill all healing you even if you give up damage and poison for the trade off. Knowing Anet its going to be shadow step to target get only 200 hp allies get 400 hp and ruin it but I can't wait to see how some of the traits turn out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No idea how useful anyghing of this will be, as it doesnt show any numbers of damage, ranges or ICDs.at what interval will venom stack in stealth? at 1 every 3 sec? 1 every 1 sec?The ICD on the shadowstep heal, and its potency?Did all the new preps get their damage increased considering their useage changed? able to trigger preps while CCd?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These heals better be on par with wolverines healing power .. Cuz no matter how we build we are paper...Zerks =wet paperMinstrels = construction paper..Warrior, gaurds = tanksRangers = snipers with petsEtc not gonna go onI use to play ninja nurse alot... Id take dmg reduction anyday...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that. Are they even listening to player feedback? Atleast they could've rerolled swipe to 1200 range and un-nerfed lead attacks. And i was hopeful they will do somethin... well.. another 3-4 months of waitin for another balance patch. Cya all after 4 months gl gettin rekt in PvP as usual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must admit, I do use that signet and traps in some of my builds. I'm surprised they took the idea someone here asked for [actually they didn't ask, but suggest], which was the portal.There may have been others that suggested too, but the one I remember is from here:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/547258/#Comment_547258"...Reveal yourself, create a portal that’s invisible to enemies at a target location, allies can go through the portal to teleport to your side..."It is a somewhat similar idea anyway. I suppose they do listen, but it takes a veryyy long time for any suggestion to manifest and get the ok.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The staff blind attack always seemed a bit lack luster given it was high initiatives for almost nothing but a AoE blind. Now that blond siphon (DMG + heal), it's actually a buff... Only the value of siphon will define whether this is a small or decent update.

It further boosts damage and utility of Shortbow, and we'll, basically all of our weapon kits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

has no one taken notice of the fact dagger storm will be a 2.8 sec evade? (or a 3.05 evade since at the moment it is 4.25)

  • Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%. Increased damage by 33% in PvE only.

But this means that it deals it's damage faster since it was not reduced

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:The Shadow Portal is the biggest change here. Its certainly not as good as Mesmer Portal, but it does give Thief extra mobility. I expect it to be used quite a fair bit. Non-mainhand dagger condi thief also got a buff, perhaps P/D might be a fine roamer in WvW now. However, beyond that, most of these changes dont really do much. Traits that work on stealth attacks have the big issue that outside of Rifle (for whom none of these traits matter because if your DJ hits, the enemy is dead) noone ever uses Stealth Attacks. After that update where they get 1 second cd whenever they miss, theyre just not worth it.

Uh... I use them. Granted, many outside dagger aren't useful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dave.6819 said:Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that.

You mean they were supposed to leave the most useless traits to remain useless instead of changing/impoving them? What kind of backwards logic is that? I seriously don't understand the logic behind that sentence.

Are they even listening to player feedback?

Pretty sure there were some threads/posts about improving SA tree, because it was garbage. We don't know the numbers yet, but the changes seem potentially useful for multiple playstyles.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ll add this here:

@Karl McLain.5604 said:Being that the notes have gone out early and the theorycraft is in full swing, I want to add one additional note on Preparations.This ability type still carries similar functionality to other abilities that have arm-times. For preparations, the cast time is 1/2 second and the arm time is set at 3 seconds, with the activation being instant for non-damaging ones and 1/4 second for the damaging ones.These abilities have a few unique aspects to them. We're looking forward to seeing the builds and gameplay that you come up with!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So it seems like they're trying to promote core thief or deadeye for the role of PVE support, or even tanking. So let's have some early analysis, assuming the healing numbers are solid.

Raids. No matter how you slice it, a healer or tank that doesn't bring group boons to the table is worthless compared to the available options. Moreover, any up-and-coming support specialization needs to provide decent Quickness, Alacrity, or even both; simply providing Might and Fury puts the build up against the druid, which still provides the most Might uptime, while also providing unique damage boons. Boon and heal thieves have found their niche in raid encounters where Detonate Plasma is on the table, thus allowing them to replace a heal/quickbrand. Sadly, most of the other stolen raid skills don't offer much in the way of boons or unique utility, much less any of the other stolen skills in Fractals.

Fractals. Speaking of Fractals, you could probably make a solid argument to replace the druid or alacren with a deadeye, seeing as spirits have much less of an impact in 5-person group, and alacrity doesn't matter as much in Fractals as the fights are so short anyway. The addition of a thief may also open up some additional possibilities for skips, either through teleportation or stealth.

As far as gear goes, Harrier is likely still the best option for heal-centric Shadow Arts builds. I've thought of a tanking Minstrels build, but as mentioned above, it would take up a druid's spot at the cost of lower reliability of might uptime, as well as the loss of spirit boons and (to a lesser extent) Spotter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that.

You mean they were supposed to leave the most useless traits to remain useless instead of changing/impoving them? What kind of backwards logic is that? I seriously don't understand the logic behind that sentence.

Are they even listening to player feedback?

Pretty sure there were some threads/posts about improving SA tree, because it was garbage. We don't know the numbers yet, but the changes seem potentially useful for multiple playstyles.

I mean it's like taking Spirit Weapons of Guardian and buffing them up. That's the logic behind it. No one uses them.. so why not address more important issues instead of making it look like you are changing something but in reality you are changing nothing.

SA buff is a good thing don't get me wrong i never said anythin bout SA. But sadly it's mostly for DE. I'm only Daredevil/Thief player i ignore DE. When D/P SA DA Trick or D/D SA DA Trick will be a thing again then yea that's cool. But these changes to SA won't be meta for D/P or D/D Thieves. Remember back in the day when D/D thief was the best thing ever? Not sure if these changes will bring that back. Too much powercreep from other classes to make SA viable again. For DE tho.. yea.. SA works perfectly. Who plays DE in ranked tho? Imagine DrD goin for SA/Trick/DrD or even SA/DA/DrD. If that would be meta it would be amazing. But these changes won't make that viable. Basically taking a dead thing and buffing it to pretend to bring it back to life. Well.. Buff it further then if you really want SA to become meta.

Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life. Like revert Lead Attacks and revert Steal change and even exhaustion on DrD dodge. Those 3 "minor" things would do so much more then changing traps or buffing inf. signet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dave.6819 said:

@Dave.6819 said:Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that.

You mean they were supposed to leave the most useless traits to remain useless instead of changing/impoving them? What kind of backwards logic is that? I seriously don't understand the logic behind that sentence.

Are they even listening to player feedback?

Pretty sure there were some threads/posts about improving SA tree, because it was garbage. We don't know the numbers yet, but the changes seem potentially useful for multiple playstyles.

I mean it's like taking Spirit Weapons of Guardian and buffing them up. That's the logic behind it. No one uses them.. so why not address more important issues instead of making it look like you are changing something but in reality you are changing nothing.

What do you mean "in reality you are changing nothing"? That's nonsense.So why not address more important issues? Because (completely forgetting about it being subjective in the first place) trying to make more builds and playstyles viable for more players is more important for the state of the game as a whole than constantly buffing and tinkering around "meta builds" because you want the strong ones become stronger? If you want them to concentrate on a single build or skill category "because it's strong already" then why do we even have specs and different utility skills available? Seems like a step in a good dierction to me. Not even talking about viability, because we don't have 'the numbers', but somehow you already know it's wothless. At least this seems to be the constant on gw2 forum (for one: pre-release berks crying about berk stance having "cast time" without knowing how "long" it is -holy kitten, how about wait and see after it's released and then complain about it?).

SA buff is a good thing don't get me wrong i never said anythin bout SA. But sadly it's mostly for DE. I'm only Daredevil/Thief player i ignore DE. When D/P SA DA Trick or D/D SA DA Trick will be a thing again then yea that's cool. But these changes to SA won't be meta for D/P or D/D Thieves. Remember back in the day when D/D thief was the best thing ever? Not sure if these changes will bring that back. Too much powercreep from other classes to make SA viable again. For DE tho.. yea.. SA works perfectly. Who plays DE in ranked tho? Imagine DrD goin for SA/Trick/DrD or even SA/DA/DrD. If that would be meta it would be amazing. But these changes won't make that viable. Basically taking a dead thing and buffing it to pretend to bring it back to life. Well.. Buff it further then if you really want SA to become meta.

Ah, it's just that you wrote "Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them" and "Are they even listening to player feedback?", while... you know... SA and traps. So the answer here stays like it was before, respectively: "that's a step in the right direction" and "yes".Saying SA change is useful only (or mostly) for DE is simply false. That said, again, we don't have the numbers, but it's awesome you already have the knowledge on all the details (like siphon/heal/ICD) and alrerady know they're not viable and need to be buffed more. On that note, at least share them with the rest of us, so I can agree with you.

Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life.

Copy-paste the first paragraph of this post. I just disagree with your opinion on this one. Trying to bring dead things to life is a good thing for the players, much needed build diversity and the game as a whole.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Dave.6819 said:Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life.

Copy-paste the first paragraph of this post. I just disagree with your opinion on this one. Trying to bring dead things to life is a good thing for the players, much needed build diversity and the game as a whole.

Sobx - I agree. I believe Dave is talking from a pvp aspect where if we are not helping the meta or at least adding to it is not worth it. This will help build variety but only the ones that will appreciate it are open world and wvw(not try hard guilds in wvw), where you don't get flamed for not using meta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's all a bunch of gimmicky nothing. SA changes dosen't change the fact stealth is overnerfed making the entire traitline a troll pick in PvP/Wvw and very niche pick in raids and fractals. No wvw commander is going to pick a boon or heal thief over scrapper or firebrand. No important boons means support thief will only find use on fights with detonate plasma. SA in fractals is just for skips which a dps thief can just quickly swap to for like 30 seconds and again without good boons healbrand/renegade chrono/druid will be better picks.The new preps are just like the traps. Maybe better maybe worst we can't know yet but just like traps and many other utilities of the thief the main issue is the reliance on certain utilities the thief needs because it's so squishy or for dps. In pvp shadowstep and sig of agility are required to survive, are you willing to give up roll for intiative/sig of infiltration for the new preps? In PvE, sig of agility has so much packed in it, its hard to give it up. Assassins sig is required because it has so much stat increase in it, I wish anet would gut the skill and redistribute numbers. That leaves one spot it MAY fill or at least in niche situations like better CC on samarog or skips in fractals maybe the ward skill on trash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Xenji.4907 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life.

Copy-paste the first paragraph of this post. I just disagree with your opinion on this one. Trying to bring dead things to life is a good thing for the players, much needed build diversity and the game as a whole.

Sobx - I agree. I believe Dave is talking from a pvp aspect where if we are not helping the meta or at least adding to it is not worth it. This will help build variety but only the ones that will appreciate it are open world and wvw(not try hard guilds in wvw), where you don't get flamed for not using meta.

Yea i didn't mention game mode. U guessed it right. I'm only playing PvP and WvW roam. PvE i dont even mention cuz any changes are good for PvE be it traps or sa or whatever. Everytin works for PvE and diversity is good in that game mode. I do play like 70% PvP 29% WvW and 1% PvE. My point of view is only from making a thief stronger in PvP and not only a decapper or +1er. And these changes? I'm sure 99% it won't change anythin in PvP. SA was once quite a good thing in PvP. Back in the Shadows Refuge days when ppl used to play SA/Crit/Trick. When thieves could actually ress up 1-2 people and didn't die while doing it. We are way too far away from those days tho. I highly highly doubt SA changes will enable Thief of doing that while getting pounded by scourges/holos/revs. Even reveal wasn't a thing back then as i recall. But i get it. Lots of peeps really hate thief class and they say that this class is responsible for creating toxic environment (i don't get it why but okey..). So Anet made sure to tone down thief so much that community would stop complainin. Even now in forums i saw a guy going nuts over these SA changes. He's thinkin that Thief must get nerfed even more to the point of being totally useless to stop toxicity and if not he'll stop playing gw2.(wth?!) That's how hypcritical and full of "class'ism" our community is. I don't mind at this point i'm waitin for another 3-4 months to see the next balance patch. Peeps don't want thieves so let's give them that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@foste.3098 said:has no one taken notice of the fact dagger storm will be a 2.8 sec evade? (or a 3.05 evade since at the moment it is 4.25)

  • Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%. Increased damage by 33% in PvE only.

But this means that it deals it's damage faster since it was not reduced

Casting time usually is a different thing respect Duration: in Dagger Storm we have casting time and Duration with the same ammount of time.With Path of Fire pre-patch they reduced the duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds and they doubled the number of daggers thrown.Now they are only talking about casting time, we know nothing about duration, evade and number of daggers thrown.

That could means:

  • Dagger Storm will have a reduced duration and of course it'll do less damage and grants less evade.
  • They will only reduce casting time so it means enemy have less time to interrupt this skill (with Spectral Ring, Line of Warding, Unsteady Ground) ==> to good to be true XD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Joshewwah.2956 said:Will thief now be playable in WvW zergs? Seems like those pitfall skills can be useful. Especially:

Prepare Seal Area: This new skill will mark your current area with stifling magic, readying the location to seal enemies in.Seal Area: This new skill will seal your marked area, blocking projectiles and
preventing enemies from entering or leaving
.

That would make doing combos with wells even more powerful considering enemies won't be able to run away, given how many scrappers and superspeed buffs there are in WvW

Edit:Also no more meme condi thief trap builds in WvW, hallelujah!

huehue i have million stacks of stability i just run tru everything like its nothing :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...