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Upcoming Engineer Balance Changes


Vagrant.7206

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

You have no clue how pve engi works do you?

Nope, don't know how they work at all. That's why I asked a question. The reset toolbelt thing was also a joke. Silliness occurs to me sometimes.

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@Dirame.8521 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

What condi Holo Build are you running that makes you overheat 100% of the time?

I would think you'd want to avoid overheating at ALL TIMES unless you were trying to go all in for a win....?

Personally, the changes are interesting. I can't speak to how bad or good they are until I test it. I have learned to manage my heat when using Holo now so the overheat change doesn't bother me (and I use ECSU trait as well). The Scrapper change makes me think there will be only one major way of playing bunker Scrapper if they do not allow condi damage to tick up the Barrier count.

I'm taking the wait and see approach.

Meta condi builds run
and
.

For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

PvE. Condi engi isn't particularly viable in PvP.

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

  • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have
auto attack
fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

  1. It wasn't a bug.
  2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
  3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?
  1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.Actually no, they don't. Engi rifle only has 1 skill that can compare to the 1 thru 5 skills of Warrior and DE Rifle and that's the auto attack (I believe Overcharged Shot projectile speed is
    much
    faster) - which makes the
    engi
    the one that has a far more forgiving skill because, before the upcoming patch, it tracks. Ranger longbow arrows fire faster. Warrior and DH do not. Further? Yes, but nobody was disputing that. Contrary to your claim, rifle shots are actually
    more
    reliable in terms of hitting strafing targets than Warrior and DH longbow.
  2. Yes, but they also called the net shot firing backwards a bug.
    . I'm not sure I trust their track record on "bugs"Sure, net shot release notes have been contradictory. But it is not comparable to Hip Shot, as no other rifle attacks worked like that, and they have no previous notes regarding this. I am discussing Hip Shot, not Net Shot
  3. So your method of balance is "If I can't have it, nobody can?" Strange policy, but you do you.What is your reasoning that one auto attack should have this, while the other two cannot? I guarantee it's not anything better than my request for uniform mechanics.

Congratulations, you've won an internet! I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about, or why it's such a big deal to you. So I'm just going to leave this here.

It's unfortunate that you don't seem to be able to admit you are wrong when proven so, and you resort to abandoning the conversation in such a manner. Please avoid such hostile reactions when the person you are talking to is not being hostile.

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@Dirame.8521 said:In PvE, I can understand that but in PvP, that change shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of whether this change was there or not, the last thing you want to do is overload because Shockwave is on such a short cooldown that it is beneficial for you NOT to overload.

It is a direct and massive nerf across all game modes. It is a problem. Period. It guts PVE holosmith and it makes PVP/WvW holosmith much more dangerous to use, and there is no reason to institute such a change. Holosmiths with their toolbelt skills aren't overpowered at all.

@Dirame.8521 said:The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

@Dirame.8521 said:This may actually prove to be the strongest trait especially against burst classes. Especially if backstab D/P thieves come back. Being able to react and heal or even block damage because it takes a 2 second delay to ALL hit you?... come on man. Why are you hating on everything?

This does nothing against burst classes. Scrapper's lost 3000 health, effectively making them a low tier HP class. Getting 20% of your health back via delayed damage doesn't compensate for the health lost. A good burst will completely blow past this trait like it doesn't even exist. Likewise, a good burst will make sure you're completely disabled, so you'll be stunned for the 2 seconds it takes for the damage to tick. There are already much better traits in other lines that actually help you deal with burst, but they do it in a way that provides statistical advantage.

There's an expression: don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. This trait reeks of urine.

@Dirame.8521 said:Why do you seem to be intentionally difficult? Sure you can maintain all 3 if you really wanted to. Combine all the leap finishers/blast finishers and you technically have near infinite superspeed then just take 1 trait in tools with a kit and you definitely have infinite swiftness and take one trait in Firearms and you got near infinite stab. GG

If you're building for damage, you must take Applied Force, Mass Momentum, and Objects in Motion. If you do this, you have no way to stack consistently stack super speed, stability, or even swiftness. You get Rocket Charge, which is a DPS loss under quickness. That's it. So... 3 seconds of super speed. This is a DPS trait that only works if you don't take the other DPS traits, and build yourself stupid just to force Objects in Motion to function.


Look, man, if you don't know what's going on, don't be reluctant to not say something. Criticism and debate only works if it is sincere, well thought out, and addresses the actual points made. Otherwise, it is just a nuisance.

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@Dirame.8521 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

What condi Holo Build are you running that makes you overheat 100% of the time?

I would think you'd want to avoid overheating at ALL TIMES unless you were trying to go all in for a win....?

Personally, the changes are interesting. I can't speak to how bad or good they are until I test it. I have learned to manage my heat when using Holo now so the overheat change doesn't bother me (and I use ECSU trait as well). The Scrapper change makes me think there will be only one major way of playing bunker Scrapper if they do not allow condi damage to tick up the Barrier count.

I'm taking the wait and see approach.

Meta condi builds run
and
.

For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

I am thinking that photonic blasting module will prevent this punishment for overheating, as it does (at least to direct damage) currently, making it an option, at the cost of being unable to lose heat until you overheat. But the actual patch's arrival will be the be-all end-all for these inquiries.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:In PvE, I can understand that but in PvP, that change shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of whether this change was there or not, the last thing you want to do is overload because Shockwave is on such a short cooldown that it is beneficial for you NOT to overload.

It is a direct and massive nerf across all game modes. It is a problem. Period. It guts PVE holosmith and it makes PVP/WvW holosmith much more dangerous to use, and there is no reason to institute such a change. Holosmiths with their toolbelt skills aren't overpowered at all.

I guess we'll just have to learn to manage our heat mechanic better. I feel for the PvE guys, but for PvP/WvW, it isn't really a nerf. Anyone who is constantly overheating when not playing the spec that is specifically built to overheat needs to learn to stop doing that. It doesn't help you win fights UNLESS you're just trying to go all in for the 'down'. In which case, that's a tactical choice, otherwise, it's just not a smart move.

@Dirame.8521 said:The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?I rest my case.

@Dirame.8521 said:This may actually prove to be the strongest trait especially against burst classes. Especially if backstab D/P thieves come back. Being able to react and heal or even block damage because it takes a 2 second delay to ALL hit you?... come on man. Why are you hating on everything?

This does nothing against burst classes. Scrapper's lost 3000 health, effectively making them a low tier HP class. Getting 20% of your health back via delayed damage doesn't compensate for the health lost. A good burst will completely blow past this trait like it doesn't even exist. Likewise, a good burst will make sure you're completely disabled, so you'll be stunned for the 2 seconds it takes for the damage to tick. There are already much better traits in other lines that actually help you deal with burst, but they do it in a way that provides statistical advantage.

There's an expression: don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. This trait reeks of urine.

I'll test it out before I make any further assumptions. So l'll leave this be.

@Dirame.8521 said:Why do you seem to be intentionally difficult? Sure you can maintain all 3 if you really wanted to. Combine all the leap finishers/blast finishers and you technically have near infinite superspeed then just take 1 trait in tools with a kit and you definitely have infinite swiftness and take one trait in Firearms and you got near infinite stab. GG

If you're building for damage, you
must
take Applied Force, Mass Momentum, and Objects in Motion. If you do this, you have no way to stack consistently stack super speed, stability, or even swiftness. You get Rocket Charge, which is a DPS loss under quickness. That's it. So... 3 seconds of super speed. This is a DPS trait that only works if you don't take the other DPS traits, and build yourself stupid just to force Objects in Motion to function.

If you REALLY want to have infinite Swiftness, good uptime on Superspeed and Stab, YOU CAN: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASnUUB1ah9ZBeeBEqil7iCsBjwAge1j9cfcEbiUE-j5QHABFt/g9lBA4DAAA (the traits in scrapper are the locations of the traits you mentioned you'd use for power scrapper. copy the link into your address bar to get access to the build, clicking doesn't work for some reason)

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@Turk.5460 said:

  • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have
auto attack
fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

  1. It wasn't a bug.
  2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
  3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?
  1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.Actually no, they don't. Engi rifle only has 1 skill that can compare to the 1 thru 5 skills of Warrior and DE Rifle and that's the auto attack (I believe Overcharged Shot projectile speed is
    much
    faster) - which makes the
    engi
    the one that has a far more forgiving skill because, before the upcoming patch, it tracks. Ranger longbow arrows fire faster. Warrior and DH do not. Further? Yes, but nobody was disputing that. Contrary to your claim, rifle shots are actually
    more
    reliable in terms of hitting strafing targets than Warrior and DH longbow.
  2. Yes, but they also called the net shot firing backwards a bug.
    . I'm not sure I trust their track record on "bugs"Sure, net shot release notes have been contradictory. But it is not comparable to Hip Shot, as no other rifle attacks worked like that, and they have no previous notes regarding this. I am discussing Hip Shot, not Net Shot
  3. So your method of balance is "If I can't have it, nobody can?" Strange policy, but you do you.What is your reasoning that one auto attack should have this, while the other two cannot? I guarantee it's not anything better than my request for uniform mechanics.

Congratulations, you've won an internet! I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about, or why it's such a big deal to you. So I'm just going to leave this here.

It's unfortunate that you don't seem to be able to admit you are wrong when proven so, and you resort to abandoning the conversation in such a manner. Please avoid such hostile reactions when the person you are talking to is not being hostile.

I've learned long ago that arguing on the internet is about as effective as pissing into the wind. You're just going to get wet and cold.

If you interpreted my response as hostile, my apologies. Not my intention. But it's kind of obvious I won't be able to convince you. It's better to just leave it alone.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:In PvE, I can understand that but in PvP, that change shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of whether this change was there or not, the last thing you want to do is overload because Shockwave is on such a short cooldown that it is beneficial for you NOT to overload.

It is a direct and massive nerf across all game modes. It is a problem. Period. It guts PVE holosmith and it makes PVP/WvW holosmith much more dangerous to use, and there is no reason to institute such a change. Holosmiths with their toolbelt skills aren't overpowered at all.

@Dirame.8521 said:The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

@Dirame.8521 said:This may actually prove to be the strongest trait especially against burst classes. Especially if backstab D/P thieves come back. Being able to react and heal or even block damage because it takes a 2 second delay to ALL hit you?... come on man. Why are you hating on everything?

This does nothing against burst classes. Scrapper's lost 3000 health, effectively making them a low tier HP class. Getting 20% of your health back via delayed damage doesn't compensate for the health lost. A good burst will completely blow past this trait like it doesn't even exist. Likewise, a good burst will make sure you're completely disabled, so you'll be stunned for the 2 seconds it takes for the damage to tick. There are already much better traits in other lines that actually help you deal with burst, but they do it in a way that provides statistical advantage.

There's an expression: don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. This trait reeks of urine.

@Dirame.8521 said:Why do you seem to be intentionally difficult? Sure you can maintain all 3 if you really wanted to. Combine all the leap finishers/blast finishers and you technically have near infinite superspeed then just take 1 trait in tools with a kit and you definitely have infinite swiftness and take one trait in Firearms and you got near infinite stab. GG

If you're building for damage, you
must
take Applied Force, Mass Momentum, and Objects in Motion. If you do this, you have no way to stack consistently stack super speed, stability, or even swiftness. You get Rocket Charge, which is a DPS loss under quickness. That's it. So... 3 seconds of super speed. This is a DPS trait that only works if you don't take the other DPS traits, and build yourself stupid just to force Objects in Motion to function.

Look, man, if you don't know what's going on, don't be reluctant to not say something. Criticism and debate only works if it is sincere, well thought out, and addresses the actual points made. Otherwise, it is just a nuisance.

There's also blast finishers from different skills/toolbelt skills. I, for one, use the flamethrower in pvp, so i have access to many blast finishers, plus the leap finisher from rocket charge, so it will make running the FT look pretty promising in terms of keeping up both stab (thanks to Juggernaut) and superspeed. Also, Elixir gun has a blast finisher on skill 4, and i think blast gyro's blast attack counts as a blast finisher. If people run Elixir X still, the seismic leap on rampage is a leap finisher (I think). There are ways to get the finishers, We'll just need to play the changes before we can jump to any extreme conclusions, both on the positive side and the negative side.

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@Dirame.8521 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?I rest my case.This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.
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Interesting patch. I currently run Condi Scrapper on my WvW roaming build, but will likely have to change back to core (much more of a challenge) or switch to power holo (yawn.. just kill me now) if this goes through.

I use Scrapper because it comes with

  • Sneak Gyro, Detection Pulse,
  • 3 good sustain traits,
  • the ability to stomp with function gyro while I keep fighting other players

All of these things are essential survival tools when fighting outnumbered 1vX. Now it seems with this patch, they're removing the detection half of sneak gyro, dropping most (all?) of the sustain traits, and making function gyro more powerful, at a cost of a longer cooldown. Additionally, Scrapper now has a mandatory -300vit with a +% barrier vampirism trait but this is a really bad deal for condi, as it only applies on strike damage.

Basically, stealth and a stomp helper at a cost of an entire traitline and -300vit... I don't know.

This might force me to drop Scrapper entirely and run core instead.. That would be annoying, as I'd have to give up one of my utility skills to slot Elixir S to do Sneak Gyro's job of stealth and Function Gyro's job of safe stomps. I wish you could slot normal utility skills in the elite slot..

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@"talprofil.5986" said:

@Dirame.8521 said:The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?I rest my case.This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

The additional uptime of lightning fields means you have more access to said 'daze' combo instead of depending on the cooldown on your Hammer 5 for a lightning field.

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"Blowtorch: This skill now applies 4 stacks of burning that scales dynamically between 3 and 6 seconds based on distance from the target. This skill now scales damage dynamically based on distance rather than using distance thresholds."

That's nice...if it hits: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77571/pistol-4-blowtorch-quality-of-life-fix

Overall this patch a huge engie nerf..as usual. The loss of detection pulse just makes the broken stealth mechanic even more OP. If you are going to take away our ability to deal with the stealth mechanic then make the mechanic more of a risk. This is a clear sign that Anet is STILL struggling to find a place for the Engineer class since they launched the game.

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This is why I feared balance patches. Every patch is

  1. A huge nerf for one or two professions while trying very hard to convince us that those nerfs are changes (eg. Rapid Regen) and buffs (eg. Gyro Function). They gut skills that are useful or fun and buff skills that no one uses.

  2. A nerf to all other proffessions in the name of... as above.

This patch, we are lucky enough to be selected for the big nerf because we are starting to get useful and having too much fun in WvW. I hope this will not hurt Scrapper so much that WvW is back to the three-meta-class days. Perhaps ANet is trying to make them the holy trinity in WvW.

The player base is diminishing and yet the nerfs continue as normal. Disappointed. Really.

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:Scrapper balancing turns out better than expected. It will be painful to lose some of the old features which made this class so much fun and reliable, but there are a lot of chances to improve and rise even higher. I am still very happy for the fact that we get informed BEFORE the actual patch happens, highly appreciated.

The new way how F5 is going to work is a first step towards a real trade-off-system. If you want to use an Elite Specialization, you will lose your elite toolbelt slot. On the other hand we finally get control over the Function Gyro. I was using Detection Pulse frequently, it pretty much ruined going into stealth for our enemies. Only the DE with Shadow Meld was able to stealth anyway. Stealth is a powerful game-mechanic. If an enemy goes into stealth, it should empower him and make him a threat to us. We still have enough other options to reveal, compared to other professions. This is another part of the trade-off-system. We want to reveal players, so we have to "sacrifice" a real skill for it. As a conclusion, we may get a few more competitive builds which utilize the gadgets, which is much appreciated.

The traits look awesome, Rapid Regeneration will be missed though. Damage Dampener will make a lot of people rage in fury. It does look useless on the first view, but it will defuse a lot of extreme burst-skills. It boosts the way barrier works and allows us to neutralize more of the incoming damage. Really looking forward to this one.

More when the patch is live.

  1. Removal of ALL 4 Elite toolbelt skills
  2. Gyro Function has cool down time tripled and range cut by 300
  3. Rapid Regen being the bread and butter of healing and sustainability, gone.

It may not be as bad to those that that don't play healing Scrapper in WvW, but how is this better for those that do? A genuine question.

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@coro.3176 said:Basically, stealth and a stomp helper at a cost of an entire traitline and -300vit... I don't know.The -300 vitality is funny in particular... I run a mostly trailblazer roamer and got a decent chunk of hp, 24ish or whatever it is. Yesterday when roaming I was looking at my hp, the situation (good people, bad people, 1v2, 1vX, small group fights, etc) and realized... I would loose so, so many of the harder fights against good enemy roamers and smaller groups on 3000 less hp alone, because good enemies run heavy burst builds. Whether I won or lost the fight, I was often below that hp and had to sustain to get heals up. I run a full kitten tank with all defensive traits now and they're all going to be gone.

In the WvW forum, someone posted a picture of a reset zerg having 70% scourges. I sure as heck aint playing zerg scrapper healer after this patch even if it's core traits are unaffected. Because nothing makes sense anymore with the new scrapper and people are already shifting. No Anet, I do not want to go full berserker hammer spec just to get my own barriers from the new trait when scourges get AoE barriers by accidentally sneezing.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"coro.3176" said:Basically, stealth and a stomp helper at a cost of an entire traitline and -300vit... I don't know.The -300 vitality is funny in particular... I run a mostly trailblazer roamer and got a decent chunk of hp, 24ish or whatever it is. Yesterday when roaming I was looking at my hp, the situation (good people, bad people, 1v2, 1vX, small group fights, etc) and realized... I would loose so, so many of the harder fights against good enemy roamers and smaller groups on 3000 less hp alone, because good enemies run heavy burst builds. Whether I won or lost the fight, I was often below that hp and had to sustain to get heals up. I run a full kitten tank with all defensive traits
now
and they're all going to be gone.

In the WvW forum, someone posted a picture of a reset zerg having 70% scourges. I sure as heck aint playing zerg scrapper healer after this patch even if it's core traits are unaffected. Because nothing makes sense anymore with the new scrapper and people are already shifting. No Anet, I do not want to go full berserker hammer spec just to get my own barriers from the new trait when scourges get AoE barriers by accidentally sneezing.

Indeed, that minor trait alone pushes out actual bruisers (using toughness etc instead of full glass) as well as healer specs (that deal no damage and spend a lot of time healing instead of damaging) and the snowflake condiscrappers still holding out hope. And in the end, we already had a full damage spec in holo, we don't need two berserker melee cleave specs (and holo still does that so much better).

If the -300 vit is for the sake of the 15% barrier generation why not have that as an optional grandmaster trait then (instead of the mess that is the new adaptive armor....) similar to invigorating precision (which is actual healing and doesn't carry a penalty, on a class well built to use it). This minor trait has to compensate the loss of all our previous barrier traits, as well as rapid regeneration and 300 vit on top of that. And in pvp i'm not sure it does,

My theory is that they are destroying scrapper like this for the sake of (imaginary) pve scrappers and to do the classic nerf that looks like a fair rework to the outsider. In pve cleaving 5 targets with impunity is the norm and since glass is the only way there, they tried to reshape the scrapper into a fractal hero or something while ignoring how people have actually been using scrappers for the past years.

Funny thing is that the blokes at the pvp forum are already screaming "NERF!" at the top of their lungs, because they think of all of this added onto the existing scrapper, and don't realize that this is a big gut punch of a nerf across the entire spec, and they don't see how much of it is meaningless fluff with massive penalties. I cringe every time i hear wooden potato go "exciting!!!!" over every single thing. Just listen to him talk about the damage delay trait like its the best thing that has ever happened.

Speaking of which isn't it just hilarious how they removed the most popular master trait and left the trait that was never used as is? It's like trying to balance shredder gyro by removing all other gyros.

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Well i had a break and didnt played gw2 for 1 oder 2 month and the first i read are this terrible patch notes...disabling toolbelt while overheatet? how is this affected with PBM? The massive dmg when overheating already seems to beenough punishmentfor me.LOS on blunderbuss, mehhh but i am ok with this. But the removal of the autoattack tracking? wtf?? its the only skill we can chasing somebody from far away, and now its gone.scrapper changes seems weird to me, the biggest loses imo are perfetly wighted, rapid regen, and adaptive armor barrier. No one of the new traits looks like "wow thats good" to me.And the last is, why there is no real condi buff or rework?

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Hello,

Non engineer player here. I was not a fan of the side nodding scrapper but I liked the idea of him beeing support in PvP and PvE. While I did prefer the old design, on paper "damage as barrier" pushes scrapper as a bruiser and sounds to me like "if you have an advantage, you can snowball" (in PvP). I am not a fan of some mechanics like that in other games. While most of you seem opposed to the rework, can you tell me what you think of this ?(keep in mind I do not play engie, do not fully understand the big picture of all the talent rework yet, I just want a feeedback/opinion from you because only time will tell how good / bad this is :smile: )Edit : I also did take time to read the previous messages and the health drop. If you play Hots I think of the new style as an Artanis (the strongest counter might be blindness / cc).

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@Dirame.8521 said:

@"talprofil.5986" said:

@Dirame.8521 said:The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?I rest my case.This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

The additional uptime of lightning fields means you have more access to said 'daze' combo instead of depending on the cooldown on your Hammer 5 for a lightning field.

I read nothing of lightning fields lasting longer. I only read finishers in lightning field being more effective. The trait is independent of the new F5 spawning a lightning field.There was no shortage of lightning fields in the first place with Bulwark Gyro and Shredder Gyro toolbelt also granting lightning fields.

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@"talprofil.5986" said:

@"talprofil.5986" said:

@Dirame.8521 said:The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

Why do you do this? You see that I already explained how the lightning field works multiple times in the same post, so why go on? Did you actually read the post, or are you just being contentious? As for the 0.25 seconds making a difference... I don't believe you. Period. I think you're lying just to be difficult.

I noticed you explained a bit more after I read on into your post. That said. I am not lying. Answer me these question if you will; Would you say interrupting a stomp with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a heal with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time? Would you say interrupting a Firebrand about to use Signet of Mercy with a 0.25s daze is a waste of time?I rest my case.This "argument" of yours is completely off. The thing is that it doesn't give you any additional dazes that would indeed have the uses you elaborated on but the dazes you already do via combo finishers last 0.25s longer. A 0.75s daze instead of a 0.5s daze on using Hammer 3 in a lightning field (about the only reliable source of leaps you'll find on scrapper builds) won't give you any perceivable advantage.

The additional uptime of lightning fields means you have more access to said 'daze' combo instead of depending on the cooldown on your Hammer 5 for a lightning field.

I read nothing of lightning fields lasting longer. I only read finishers in lightning field being more effective. The trait is independent of the new F5 spawning a lightning field.There was no shortage of lightning fields in the first place with Bulwark Gyro and Shredder Gyro toolbelt also granting lightning fields.

More effective usually means longer duration based off of other traits with similar strange wording. But I meant more access as in, more lightening fields. And a lightning field which you don't have to press another button for after using your Function Gyro works better in situations to do with rezzing. It means less button presses on the long run.

Are you going to put all gyros in your bunker build?

I don't know what you guys use but the last thing I would use when playing Bunker Scrapper is 5 gyros.

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@"santenal.1054" said:Now that the elite specs dont use the standard F5 skills anymore they can put stunbreaks on "Med Pack Drop" , "Toss Elixir X" and "Orbital Strike" to make core engi a class worth playing again.

Heck also buff Orbital strike damage, could use a modifier that makes it worth all the precasting that it has to pass for

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