Core guard's undocumented STRONG nerf: Smiter's Boon — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Core guard's undocumented STRONG nerf: Smiter's Boon

aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 25, 2019 in Guardian

Smiter's Boon is a trait that allows to cast, on heal, Lesser Smite Condition : 2 condi cleanse, +2k heal if properly traited with grandmaster trait, and deals a small amount of damage (which has been nerfed by 40% few months ago).
It was useful because you could cleanse condis and heal BEFORE (it activated on heal cast) the main heal was taking effect.
But now, they have changed it. It activates AFTER the heal.
Which totally destroys its advantages.
And gives the heal "Shelter" a way harder time. Now you have to wait 2.5s getting hit by these little condies before actually healing anything.
This change is a blatant nerf. At least mention it in the patch note.

Comments

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not a cool change, but I wont go as far as "destroys it's advantages." Shelter surely suffers the most here. But considering that the 2 heals that are most used in sPvP are LoW and the mantra, this change would not even be noticeable.

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:
    Not a cool change, but I wont go as far as "destroys its advantages." Shelter surely suffers the most here. But considering that the 2 heals that are most used in sPvP are LoW and the mantra, this change would not even be noticeable.

    LoW is a terrible heal that mainly low-tier people use. The healing might seem fine, but it forces you to go overly aggressive while it is active; which often results in getting trapped in stupid cc chains.
    A well used Shelter does not especially heal you, but avoids you getting killed by anticipating deadly actions. Unfortunately, with this trait change, it makes you so vulnerable to conditions that it becomes unplayable. So RIP higher tier with core, when it was still accessible before.
    Mantra is great but it is on the firebrand, unfortunately :(

  • FtoPScrub.5476FtoPScrub.5476 Member ✭✭✭

    Just another example of them "normalizing" one trait to work like other similar traits without them thinking about how it can mess with balance. The biggest problem for most people is that it no longer cleanses poison before healing which is pretty significant.

  • @aelska.4609 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Not a cool change, but I wont go as far as "destroys its advantages." Shelter surely suffers the most here. But considering that the 2 heals that are most used in sPvP are LoW and the mantra, this change would not even be noticeable.

    LoW is a terrible heal that mainly low-tier people use. The healing might seem fine, but it forces you to go overly aggressive while it is active; which often results in getting trapped in stupid cc chains.
    A well used Shelter does not especially heal you, but avoids you getting killed by anticipating deadly actions. Unfortunately, with this trait change, it makes you so vulnerable to conditions that it becomes unplayable. So RIP higher tier with core, when it was still accessible before.
    Mantra is great but it is on the firebrand, unfortunately :(

    First of all, LoW is definetily the stronger option for core guard. It allows it to pre-emptively pop it and go ham in teamfights which no other guard heal lets you do. Shelter is easily canceled by a plethora of CCs rendering it zero value. (Mark 5) (Rev KD with shiro port).

    On topic though, this is such a stupid kitten change my head hurts. S T O P N E R F I N G C O R E G U A R D

    Class is barely on life-support. Don't pull the plug

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    That change literally delete any sense the trait is supposed to have.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aelska.4609 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Not a cool change, but I wont go as far as "destroys its advantages." Shelter surely suffers the most here. But considering that the 2 heals that are most used in sPvP are LoW and the mantra, this change would not even be noticeable.

    LoW is a terrible heal that mainly low-tier people use. The healing might seem fine, but it forces you to go overly aggressive while it is active; which often results in getting trapped in stupid cc chains.
    A well used Shelter does not especially heal you, but avoids you getting killed by anticipating deadly actions. Unfortunately, with this trait change, it makes you so vulnerable to conditions that it becomes unplayable. So RIP higher tier with core, when it was still accessible before.
    Mantra is great but it is on the firebrand, unfortunately :(

    Lol? If you are playing core guardian and not using LoW, you are doing something seriously wrong. I have never ever seen any core guardian not using LoW and being even remotely competitive. And note, I am someone who took core guardian to P2 after RI nerf. So I am talking from experience.

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2019

    Seriously... just that's horrible.
    The whole point of that trait that was to get some condi cleanse BEFORE your heal, since some conditions like poison reduce the effect of healing.
    I guess its another guardian triat made useless.

    What are they thinking, At this point are they've pretty nerfed all forms of power guardian into the ground and are continuing to do so.
    Core and DH suffered due to it the RI nerf, and now they've done this to Smiter's Boon.

    Do they want all guardians be to firebrands? Because at this rate it feels like it.
    They aren't going to touch dragonhunter any time soon. its been about 3 years since we had any major changes to it.
    In back april they said they were making changes to the HoT specs... Dragonhunter was not mentioned at all.
    Despite all the recent changes to literally all of the other HoT specs getitng revamps or changes. DH remains untouched.
    You know it's bad, when they fix and tweak both the underwater weapons over an elite spec's weapon.

    I just have sinking feeling that they will do something bad to the "monk's focus" trait or mess around with either the raidance traitline again or virtues traitline to screw over core guardian or power DH to making either one completely unuseable.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    I mean, this kind of mechanics where an effect is applied even before skill is fully cast should have never been in the game. Effects that are triggered by a skill should apply only when skills is actually cast, not upon click.

    But the issue is that again its only the guardian that gets these "common sense" changes which makes the class relatively fall behind (RI nerf another example)

  • It is certainly a disadvantage especially you can't cleanse poison before healing take place. 33% lesser heal then.

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    @aelska.4609 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Not a cool change, but I wont go as far as "destroys its advantages." Shelter surely suffers the most here. But considering that the 2 heals that are most used in sPvP are LoW and the mantra, this change would not even be noticeable.

    LoW is a terrible heal that mainly low-tier people use. The healing might seem fine, but it forces you to go overly aggressive while it is active; which often results in getting trapped in stupid cc chains.
    A well used Shelter does not especially heal you, but avoids you getting killed by anticipating deadly actions. Unfortunately, with this trait change, it makes you so vulnerable to conditions that it becomes unplayable. So RIP higher tier with core, when it was still accessible before.
    Mantra is great but it is on the firebrand, unfortunately :(

    Wuuuhhhhhh? :confounded:

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Core guard was one of the classes that could compete in high levels with the new power creeped elite specs. So, they just wanna nerf it to the ground which might make F2P account holders who are competitive to get the PoF version that holds the op specs so that they can have an easier time than playing dead core specs. More monies for Anet :)

    "All the talent in this world won't take you anywhere without your Teammates
    Trust them, Res them, Support them
    "

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭

    cmon guys, guardian should be nerfed, we are" in a good spot " arent we? :) buff Spirit weapons and sigils pl0x!

  • Diviora.9548Diviora.9548 Member ✭✭

    Probably some of the devs plays as necro and dont want instant condy clear i cant think of any other reason why this was changed so lame

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    Heyyyyyyyy could be worse.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter's_Boon_(PvP)

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Seriously... just that's horrible.
    The whole point of that trait that was to get some condi cleanse BEFORE your heal, since some conditions like poison reduce the effect of healing.
    I guess its another guardian triat made useless.

    What are they thinking, At this point are they've pretty nerfed all forms of power guardian into the ground and are continuing to do so.
    Core and DH suffered due to it the RI nerf, and now they've done this to Smiter's Boon.

    Do they want all guardians be to firebrands? Because at this rate it feels like it.
    They aren't going to touch dragonhunter any time soon. its been about 3 years since we had any major changes to it.
    In back april they said they were making changes to the HoT specs... Dragonhunter was not mentioned at all.
    Despite all the recent changes to literally all of the other HoT specs getitng revamps or changes. DH remains untouched.
    You know it's bad, when they fix and tweak both the underwater weapons over an elite spec's weapon.

    I just have sinking feeling that they will do something bad to the "monk's focus" trait or mess around with either the raidance traitline again or virtues traitline to screw over core guardian or power DH to making either one completely unuseable.

    You should only play FB in sPvP. Nothing else is viable.

    DH was one of the stronger HoT elites in PvE. And Anet seems not willing to go back on trap and LB nerfs. And a revamp is probably not going to happen, again since it works well in PvE.

    I think DH LB needs revamp. And the GM traits need modifications, except big game hunter.

    That's my point. only FB is viable in sPVP and it shouldn't be that way.

    They REALLY need to get on with revamping whole of DH not just the longbow. They need to make it more viable in all games modes, 3 years without any decent adjustments is terrible.
    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful, and spvp longbow is too slow and predictable. Half the DH's traits are useless, outdated or go unused, take Hunter's Fortification for example, I guess this trait was popular once upon a time, but now Aegis builds aren't really anymore due to the nerfs and removal of certain traits. Secondly... Over the years they've added, Many skills and trait effects that are unblockable(or attack that can be made unblockable). Unblockable attacks don't trigger traits and break aegis so this won't cleanse any condition if an unblockable attack or trait effect hits you. Lastly pretty every attack now gives a some sort of condition now. So that minor damage reduction is not worth it, What that should be changed to is if "Receive less damage when you HAVE conditions on you." or better yet just replace it with something better as no one uses it.

    They aren't going to bring back daze on traps but instead of that DH could use is some Retaliation on traps or quickness.
    Make the "pirecing light" trait give the Retaliation boon to all traps, so all traps give their normal boon and Retaliation upon triggering.

    DH seriously needs love in all game modes, the only place it does decent is in raids.
    To be honest I think that's only because DH is power based and Firebrand isn't. Once they either nerf DH specifically and or patch in a way for Firebrand to do decent Power based DPS, Dragonhunter will pretty much disappear from raids.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some dev or its friend loosed to a guardian :}

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    I agree very much with this. Of the top of my head, mesmer is only profession that has all its weapons used at least in some way and game mode. All other professions have some weapons that barely see any play.

    To be fair, this issue is unsolvable in my opinion as its deeply tied to the game design. The fact so much of our skills are dependant on our weapon choice will always result in some weapons not seeing usage as its impossible that they are equally useful and balanced. The fact that forums are flooded with complains and that LB issue has been a known issue for more than a year now shows that this probably wont be addressed any time soon

    IMO, the best we can hope for is that they start to rotate "flavor of the month" weapons so the game at least feels fresh to us players

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2019

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    I agree very much with this. Of the top of my head, mesmer is only profession that has all its weapons used at least in some way and game mode.

    Mesmer
    Thief
    Necro
    Engineer

    These 4 professions see both elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

    Guardians
    Warrior
    Elementalist
    Ranger

    These 4 professions see a single elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

    Revenant wins the prize for having neither profession weapons being suitable for a meta build.

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2019

    .> @kasoki.5180 said:

    I mean, this kind of mechanics where an effect is applied even before skill is fully cast should have never been in the game. Effects that are triggered by a skill should apply only when skills is actually cast, not upon click.

    But the issue is that again its only the guardian that gets these "common sense" changes which makes the class relatively fall behind (RI nerf another example)

    One of the most comparable traits, ranger's Soften the Fall, already function exactly like this, and has been like that since they added it to trigger on heal aswell as fall damage. Live Fast, the one that gives Fury and Quickness on Beast skills is triggered after the skill, not before (which would have been a lot more useful).

    Sounds pretty ignorant to claim that guardian is the only professions with these "common sense changes".

    Same with the DH complaints I see. Soulbeast barely uses its MH dagger, and druid has been relegated to a spirit bot for raiding. It's complete kitten at actual supporting in PvP/WvW. Even pre nerfs it would have been a sidenoder at best in the current meta.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    This is kind of misleading and inaccurate. Main hand dagger is used for both Power and Condi Soulbeast, in fact, it's meta for both builds in raids. Scrapper hammer is a must organized WvW groups, even if you were to bring Scrapper as a raid healer, there is no reason to not run hammer unless your group severely needs the CC from shield, which I think your group has bigger problems if you are running a Scrapper healer and are relying on them to CC. I agree Herald's shield isn't very widely used, but to compare a defensive weapon to an offensive weapon isn't entirely fair, especially when can still be very effective without it and I'd argue Revenant is pretty well off in all game modes. The problem is DH is underwhelming everywhere besides PvE and that's largely due to the horrible design of the weapon and the specialization.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Falseprophet.1502 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    This is kind of misleading and inaccurate. Main hand dagger is used for both Power and Condi Soulbeast, in fact, it's meta for both builds in raids. Scrapper hammer is a must organized WvW groups, even if you were to bring Scrapper as a raid healer, there is no reason to not run hammer unless your group severely needs the CC from shield, which I think your group has bigger problems if you are running a Scrapper healer and are relying on them to CC. I agree Herald's shield isn't very widely used, but to compare a defensive weapon to an offensive weapon isn't entirely fair, especially when can still be very effective without it and I'd argue Revenant is pretty well off in all game modes. The problem is DH is underwhelming everywhere besides PvE and that's largely due to the horrible design of the weapon and the specialization.

    What you quoted me on was from pure PvE. I know I did note that, but the post I quoted was talking from PvE.

    Ya DH LB is bad.

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    It kinda is actually.

    Soulbeast does use dagger, It's been meta for both condi and power builds build in raids for ages.
    https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/soulbeast/condition/
    https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/soulbeast/power/

    Herlad shield is used on kiting builds
    https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/hand kite/

    For scrapper, the healing scrapper can use it's hammer over shield in some instances.
    Due to knocking mobs in some instances can be bad, So using thunderclap for CC instead. it also has a slightly lower CD than the shield skills, It is use by a few people that run healing scrappers from what i've seen personally.

    DH's Longbow is rather useless in raid wise, poor DPS, and to even give some CC on it, you'd need to take the "heavy light" trait to gain knockback . However you need the "big game hunter" trait for damage, so either way you get screwed over with the longbow. scepter and GS have always been the go to weapons for DH in raids.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2019

    @Lazze.9870 said:
    .> @kasoki.5180 said:

    I mean, this kind of mechanics where an effect is applied even before skill is fully cast should have never been in the game. Effects that are triggered by a skill should apply only when skills is actually cast, not upon click.

    But the issue is that again its only the guardian that gets these "common sense" changes which makes the class relatively fall behind (RI nerf another example)

    One of the most comparable traits, ranger's Soften the Fall, already function exactly like this, and has been like that since they added it to trigger on heal aswell as fall damage. Live Fast, the one that gives Fury and Quickness on Beast skills is triggered after the skill, not before (which would have been a lot more useful).

    Sounds pretty ignorant to claim that guardian is the only professions with these "common sense changes".

    >

    Sounds pretty ignorant to quote me on something I have NOT said, as I have not said that other professions don't have these mechanics. I have said that guard is the one whose are being changed.
    As far as I know, skills you have mentioned have always applied traited effects as intended. They weren't just randomly changed one day

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    I agree very much with this. Of the top of my head, mesmer is only profession that has all its weapons used at least in some way and game mode.

    Mesmer
    Thief
    Necro
    Engineer

    These 4 professions see both elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

    Can't remember when was the last time i saw pistol thief, dagger necro or shield engi (scratch this one). In any game mode. I was talking about weapons available to a profession as a whole, not just weapons gained via elite-specs

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2019

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:
    .> @kasoki.5180 said:

    I mean, this kind of mechanics where an effect is applied even before skill is fully cast should have never been in the game. Effects that are triggered by a skill should apply only when skills is actually cast, not upon click.

    But the issue is that again its only the guardian that gets these "common sense" changes which makes the class relatively fall behind (RI nerf another example)

    One of the most comparable traits, ranger's Soften the Fall, already function exactly like this, and has been like that since they added it to trigger on heal aswell as fall damage. Live Fast, the one that gives Fury and Quickness on Beast skills is triggered after the skill, not before (which would have been a lot more useful).

    Sounds pretty ignorant to claim that guardian is the only professions with these "common sense changes".

    >

    Sounds pretty ignorant to quote me on something I have NOT said, as I have not said that other professions don't have these mechanics. I have said that guard is the one whose are being changed.
    As far as I know, skills you have mentioned have always applied traited effects as intended. They weren't just randomly changed one day

    I never claimed those traits were ever changed. They are just comparable traits.

    I said it's ignorant to think guardian is the only profession where such changes, like the one done to Smiter's Boon, happens. It's not. Three years into the game Anet suddenly normalized the leap on ranger greatsword, calling it a bug fix when people questioned it because it was thought by players to be an intended component of the weapon. The character even leaps twice in its animation. The fact that Scrapper got a double leap finisher built into its hammer shortlfy after makes that change even worse than this Smiter's Boon change, as it removes the rule that leaps are locked in terms of functionality.

    Even if guardian truly was the only class to get such changes, which it's not, it's a moot point to bring up unless you can list abnormal funtionalities in other comparable traits or skills.

    If there is a point to be made, it is that Anet need to get their kitten together and fix traits and skills like this sooner rather than later, and mention it in patch notes instead of these stealth fixes, especially when the change they make have implications like this one (removing poison after a heal instead of before a heal obviously being worse).

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

    Only because it's a marginaly better condi weapon than the axe. The dagger has no other use, no useful utility. Nothing. It's underwhelming enough to be the mainhand dagger one would think core ranger should've always had.

    Spellbreaker and scrapper use their weapons in competetive enviroments.

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

    Only because it's a marginaly better condi weapon than the axe. The dagger has no other use, no useful utility. Nothing. It's underwhelming enough to be the mainhand dagger one would think core ranger should've always had.

    Spellbreaker and scrapper use their weapons in competetive enviroments.

    If you read the OP I quoted, it was all about raids. In raids, dps is basically all that matters. Being a marginally better dps weapon on a class that has good dps so I don't understand why you undermine it's use.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2019

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    @crazyhusky.2985

    DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

    Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

    Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

    SB does not use dagger.
    Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.
    Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.
    Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

    It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

    Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

    Only because it's a marginaly better condi weapon than the axe. The dagger has no other use, no useful utility. Nothing. It's underwhelming enough to be the mainhand dagger one would think core ranger should've always had.

    Spellbreaker and scrapper use their weapons in competetive enviroments.

    If you read the OP I quoted, it was all about raids. In raids, dps is basically all that matters. Being a marginally better dps weapon on a class that has good dps so I don't understand why you undermine it's use.

    The overall conversation was more about the usefulness of a weapon across all game modes. And that's what important. It doesn't matter if spellbreaker has no use for its dagger pve when its a staple in its pvp build. DH bow however has little to no use.

    Which is why I "undermine" the dagger. The only gamemode it has ever had any use in is pve. And the only reason it beats the axe to begin with, which isn't even a dedicated condi weapon, is because they buffed the dagger and kept the split between axe skills in pve and pvp. Removing the split would bounce axe right back up. And it's the same with power builds. The only reason dagger competes with the sword, is because the sword isn't that good of a dps weapon to begin with.

    A few more tweaks to the dagger would sement it as a pve condi weapon. Or a power weapon if they wanted to rework it into that, which I personaly would have prefered. And yes, I do realize that marginally better dps is all that matters in pve, but when marginally better in one game mode is all it has, I'd say its pretty underwhelming. The purpose of the weapon is pure dps, yet it just barely competes with two weapons that have always been defined as an evade weapon and a hybrid weapon.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    I agree very much with this. Of the top of my head, mesmer is only profession that has all its weapons used at least in some way and game mode.

    Mesmer
    Thief
    Necro
    Engineer

    These 4 professions see both elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

    Guardians
    Warrior
    Elementalist
    Ranger

    These 4 professions see a single elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

    Revenant wins the prize for having neither profession weapons being suitable for a meta build.

    PvE condi DPS renegades use shortbow.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    This is a pretty terrible nerf.

    So not only has the Smiter's Boon trait been heavily devalued as a condi-cleanse, but it now is a far weaker offensive skill due to the enormous delay of the trait proccing after a heal skill. For example, if you use LoW, the delay between the end of LoW and Smiter's Boon proccing is significantly longer now than it was before. This is a bad change, and it should reverted ASAP. Literally no one asked for or wanted this nerf.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Double posted, please ignore this one

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    @aelska.4609 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Not a cool change, but I wont go as far as "destroys its advantages." Shelter surely suffers the most here. But considering that the 2 heals that are most used in sPvP are LoW and the mantra, this change would not even be noticeable.

    LoW is a terrible heal that mainly low-tier people use. The healing might seem fine, but it forces you to go overly aggressive while it is active; which often results in getting trapped in stupid cc chains.
    A well used Shelter does not especially heal you, but avoids you getting killed by anticipating deadly actions. Unfortunately, with this trait change, it makes you so vulnerable to conditions that it becomes unplayable. So RIP higher tier with core, when it was still accessible before.
    Mantra is great but it is on the firebrand, unfortunately :(

    Lol 1 LoW in pvp should be effective if you heal yourself the 2nd time...Shame on the opponent

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