Should each Profession have a more unique role / identity?

[Dawdler.8521]

@hugo.4705 said:The major point is classes balance, it's always the same classes that feel strong or weak.Mostly because they are designed with different roles in mind and are strong or weak at different things.

Ironic in regards to the topic I guess.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Roles should not be hogged by a certain profession. Like the famous chrono tank or gtfo in raids.

Identity on the other hand should be very unique for each role a profession performs.

Like scourges being healers not by pumping out huge green numbers, but by providing strong barriers, epic resses, rather then high healing value.That is definitely unique and builds a strong identity for a support necro.Not to mention Rev that has three legends that can be healers (Kalla, Glint, Ventari) each not only with own strengths and weaknesses but also playstyle.Those are examples of how it should be done.

[Auburner.6945]

This will result in the Trinity in other games. It works fine for MOBAs because the roles are 5, the characters just fill in, but for a game with 9 classes, anything out of the Trinity would get denied, and players will always look for the best... A prime example is Firebrand in WvW and PvP - try knocking it out with any other support... you just can't.

However, more unique in a term of something like Warrior Banners, in which no other class can give and thus certain encounters will require that uniqueness regardless the game mode, then absolutely yes, this will make even out of meta classes fit in for some stuff.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

We have specializations for that.

Elite specializations specialize even more.

If anything they should just get rid of armor restrictions and let people mix and match all 3 armor classes, just giving bonuses to health and armor, and penalties to resource and skill recharges the more pieces of heavier armor one equips.

[Lily.1935]

There just isn't as much too the game's identity that would allow for entirely unique spaces for each profession to fill without the favoritism of the past that plagued a lot of professions. I think there is an inherent issue with the game's design that really prevents their identity from shining in order to give each profession the ability to be whatever it is they like. Tank? healer? DPS? And those can be broken down into sub categories within themselves, even in GW. Which is perfectly fine.

I'm not really going to say they should have more unique roles, or that they shouldn't because I feel its really the wrong question to ask. At least that's my opinion. Some of the conflicts are the fact that armor type has very little impact on the class itself and if every class had access to heavy armor it honestly wouldn't change much of anything. I feel this is a bit of a failure of design. Heavy armor doesn't feel any more important than light for defense. I know there is a minor difference, but when taking into account the game's mechanics, I have an easier time surviving on an engineer than, say, a guardian or Revenant. That for myself isn't always true, it highly depends on the enemies i'm facing, but the fact that how well you survive has nothing to do with your armor being light, medium or heavy is undesirable.

Now, just because I'm criticizing the armor classes of GW2 doesn't mean that I feel that it is all bad. Stats are fun to use and give some interesting ways to build. I just recognize the importance of stats vs armor class. This is the first area I feel the game falls far too short.

The Next area I feel the game fails at when it comes to unique roles is the removal of a universal energy mechanic when transferring from GW1 to GW2. Much of the Identity of specific classes has been lost because of this. Mesmer being hit the absolute hardest, but this isn't to say the Elementalist and necromancer hadn't also been negatively impacted by this removal. Much of the Mesmer's Identity was in its use of energy and how it could manipulate it. Because this element is removed it closes the door on a large amount of design. The Same is true for Elementalist, especially, with the lack of the exhaustion mechanic. A very potent debuff that could ruin an elementalist's energy regeneration. But the push back was built into its identity as the elementalist was the most powerful raw destructive mage in the game, and this burn out mechanic was an element that helped to define it as a class. Necromancer has been both hit the hardest by this and also the least by it. Depending on the time period of the game. Necromancer in GW1, its identity was built on life sacrifice to minimize its energy use, gain energy from deaths and to convert that access energy into Minions or powerful hexes. At the launch of the game the necromancer's glass cannon debuff support style of gameplay was completely lost in part due to the energy system being converted into death shroud which was a 180 on what defined them in the first game. Now, with Scourge, The necromancer is the only class to really recapture some of its old identity with its difficult energy mechanic. But the Elementalist hasn't gain back exhaustion for over powered spells, and the mesmer can't manipulate energy like it once did.

This for me take a lot of the challenge away from playing these classes. It makes each of them less interesting and less unique in their execution. However, I must point out this isn't entirely a bad thing. I have my preferences to the old way of doing things, but not everyone feels the same way. They like that these professions are much easier to pick up and use. They're far more shallow, yes, but that does lower the barrier to entry.

If I personally was going to redesign GW2, especially the combat, I'd make it so every single class could use all 3 tiers of armor and give them an energy mechanic. The current attributes system would need to be reworked and heavy armor wouldn't be a little bit better than light, it would be the difference between wearing Soldiers vs Berserkers in terms of toughness. But the trade off would be slower cast time for channel spells and far less energy for the user. I don't have the entire logistics behind that but I'd build it in a similar idea to how Dungeons and dragons works with armor.

Professions like the Mesmer would regain their energy manipulation and I'd add a new boon and conition which influences energy regeneration. Necromancer would be the best at granting the boon to allies while Mesmer would be best at applying the new condition.

But this is really just a part of my fantasy. Much of it might not even work. As GW2 is now, I absolutely would not push for such a change since it wasn't designed from the ground up in the game's data. Enemies don't have energy like they did in GW1. Armor is defined differently than it is in most games. And that's perfectly fine. I'm not going to say the game should be changed. I don't think it should. I will say that if Arena Net plans to release a new MMO, whether that be GW3 or a new series, they should strongly consider the mistakes they've made with GW2 and the strengths of both GW2 and GW1 because both games have some very different strengths and weaknesses.

The major thing that I want from GW2, the most realistic thing I want is more skills. More skill diversity and new elite specializations. They only need to fill a unique role for that profession. They only need to feel different enough from the other elite specs and other professions that it makes us want to experiment and try new things.

Sorry if this is a bit ranty, I have a lot to say about GW2 design. I love some of it and dislike other aspects of its design.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

It's not just classes. This entire game needs the depth of an actual RPG. This is what happens when you somehow manage to design a game to be ultra casual. Like, frighteningly casual and stunningly simple.

[Jheuloh.4109]

Guild Wars 2 has always felt lacking the R in MMORPG.

Every class feels less like a tapestry and more like a patchwork of design decisions. They seem to be designed in a vacuum, and then balanced based on what happens when they're taken out of the vacuum and their relationship to other classes is realized. "The meta" is basically an accident of ability-interaction.

Banner-slave warriors? Heal-bot rangers? Tank mesmers? Fine builds unto themselves, but I don't fancy playing any of those 3 classes for those roles. Ranger at least has a clear-cut DPS alternative with Soulbeast.

Traitlines, especially Elite Traitlines, often feel to have just been materialized out of thin air with barely any internal consistency just to hit a quota.

Guild Wars 1 is similarly shallow as an RPG and with an even bigger, blobbier, and more incoherent ability list. I'm more partial to its style of character development anyway; even if the class's ability list on their own weren't that coherent you could organize them into something specific. Ability-types like Stance, Signet, Shout, etc, were more meaningful and ironically your base class was a more unique property as they always had 1 undeniable and intentionally somewhat overpowered attribute. Your class also sort of doubled up as your "race" since each class had mostly unique cosmetic choices during character creation.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I strongly disagree that certain professions have exclusive access to certain boons/ condis. it creates a stale and restrictive meta.

choices over requirements. basic.

[Yasai.3549]

People need to understand that Profession =/= Role and there is no need for Role locked classes in this game.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Jheuloh.4109" said:Guild Wars 2 has always felt lacking the R in MMORPG.

Every class feels less like a tapestry and more like a patchwork of design decisions. They seem to be designed in a vacuum, and then balanced based on what happens when they're taken out of the vacuum and their relationship to other classes is realized. "The meta" is basically an accident of ability-interaction.

Banner-slave warriors? Heal-bot rangers? Tank mesmers? Fine builds unto themselves, but I don't fancy playing any of those 3 classes for those roles. Ranger at least has a clear-cut DPS alternative with Soulbeast.

So what exactly are you complaining about? Meta builds/squads being formed? That's normal and happens pretty much everywhere. And it's not like you can't find a party unless you play meta builds, but it seems you'd like to get optimal party with you playing anything you want? I'm honestly not sure what point you'rer trying to make here.

Traitlines, especially Elite Traitlines, often feel to have just been materialized out of thin air with barely any internal consistency just to hit a quota.

espec are supposed to change the way the class is played, if it feels like a new-er, different class then... job's done, I guess? Can you elaborate on the "internal consistency" you're talking about here?

Guild Wars 1 is similarly shallow as an RPG and with an even bigger, blobbier, and more incoherent ability list. I'm more partial to its style of character development anyway; even if the class's ability list on their own weren't that coherent you could organize them into something specific. Ability-types like Stance, Signet, Shout, etc, were more meaningful and ironically your base class was a more unique property as they always had 1 undeniable and intentionally somewhat overpowered attribute. Your class also sort of doubled up as your "race" since each class had mostly unique cosmetic choices during character creation.

Pretty sure one of the goals of GW(2) was not using the classic 'holy trinity' with classes blindly locked into set roles. If you're trying to complain about it, maybe you should try playing pretty much ANY other mmorpg.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Each prof has its own unique flavor and can arguably play the role it wants to some extent, and I think that is a good thing. However, the powercreep introduced with elite specs doesn't justify the stats discrepancies between classes anymore.Let's say Warriors have ++vitality and ++toughness by default, thief could have ++precision and +ferocity (having already +toughness), necros could have +condition damage +expertise (having already ++vitality), Guards could have +concentration +healing power, Mes +precision ++expertise, Eles +power +concentration +expertise +healing power by default. Those are arbitrary of course, but you see my point. I think having a particular innate benefit for playing a profession would give it a more defined identity apart from their profession mechanic/build.