Upcoming Balance Notes

[Requiem.9648]

Looking what nerf they doing on power class its seem will only see Holo and thief DD/Ded in raid as power dps class how are actualy the only one we see right now. :-1: maybe some Scrapper all caster class seem hardly nerf as usual + Guard sadly. Im not playing ele but seem keeping nerfing him to the underground now its sad for all caster like people. I dont realy understand also the purpose of putting F5+F4 on chrono no body will ever use the neverending reload of CS to obtain distortion.

[Ithilwen.1529]

@LadyKitty.6120 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Yet another huge nerf to Mesmer in removing the Chronomancer as one of the clones.

Portal for thieves? There is no longer a

SINGLE THING

that makes the Mesmer class unique... every single unique skill and ability has been removed.

Except that scourges already have had Sand Swell-portal since PoF, though it had much more limited range, it wasn't as visible and it was also limited to valid paths. Portal for thieves is actually a rather good thing when it comes to raiding as thief will become a viable alternative to chrono for portaling in escort (and possibly other bosses where it could be useful). And though there will now be 3 classes with portal-ability, mesmer still has lots of hardly replaceable utilities that other classes would need to be special-built for, like Feedback (FB's Courage-tome has too long CD in comparison), quickness+alacrity output in same class, some of the best tanking abilities (as convenient combo of channeled evasions and blocks which require some niche builds to be even remotely achieveable by other classes), massive amounts of CC, accurate pulls with largest radius, boonstrip, aegis-share, boon extension, stealths...and there's more. Only herald and firebrand get even half of these things while mesmer/chrono gets most of them in one build if needed.And ofc mirage doesn't get any major damage nerfs and thus continues its supreme dps sovereignty at 4-5 raid bosses and since everyone still wants chronos as the supports (very few accept firebrigade even now), it's not uncommon to see 6/10 of the squad being mesmers at those bosses.

So please tell how mesmer has been nerfed a lot and how it now can be replaced by other classes since it doesn't have unique skills and abilities.

There are playstyles that don't include raids. As to "a lot" of "hardly replaceable" utilities... which ones do you refer to?

Mesmer has been reduced to an inferior pet class.

[hunkamania.7561]

A balance patch that doesn't balance anything. At least Anet is consistent.

[Rufo.3716]

This balance patch just once again proves how clueless the balance team really is. They make a minor fix to a major problem and then they break 5 other things that didn't need fixing. It's been a theme now for quite a while. Until they get some new people working on balance in this game it's going to continue to hemorrhage players. I was looking for a reason to come back and this patch just drove me further away.

[phoenixwil.6071]

Not happy with some changes, others yes. I’ll focus on an obvious sloppy oversight...Deathstrike. You removed two conditions but forgot to replace with two. You gonna add weakness and vulnerability? Or stun and vulnerability? Or longer shadowstep range and vulnerability? Or siphon damage/heal? This is one of those “duh” moments.

[Agrippa.1693]

@Methuselah.4376 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:

@CerealNumber.9348 said:It seems like strong damage specs were nerfed like halo reaper and condi rev. Dragon hunter GS and LB got a buff :thinking: Chronos gotta relearn their characters againThey want to even out the damage potential for specs that are made for damage. Which doesn't really make sense. If a Spec made for damage have no group utility I expect them to have higher damage potential than other specs made for damage that has some group utility.

Technically speaking, Reaper's damage output hasn't been touched.

Yea, and that's the problem, Necro is STILL (since launch) the official lowest DPS class in the game! STILL!!! And I thought ANet was on their way of changing that (in their last patches), but no, full STOP again! Instead, it gets nerfed (not DPS-wise, although less reliable Scholar now) .... I really don't get it. Why has Necro never been allowed to come off that dreadful bottom DPS spot???

No it's not O.o I mean it's not OMGTOPDPZ but it's certainly miles better than where it was. I remember a time when it reaching a 27k benchmark was wow for Reaper, now it's at 31.2. That, combined with it's inherit tankiness, puts Reaper in a good place. Unless your talking base necro than ye, lowest dps of all.

It is! Show me one class with its highest DPS build that benchmarks lower than the highest Necro DPS build (being pReaper with 31.2 atm).Let me make it even more interesting, show me one class that doesn't have at least 2 higher DPS builds than that of the pReaper. They ALL have!And yea, you're right, it was getting better, but like I said, with it's next patch ANet decided on a full stop again! I really don't get it.

[Ten.2617]

Engineer:

• Overload? If means Overheat, its a over huge pelanity.
• Lazer Edge changes: New max bonus damage stills 15% or will be 50%? - It's not clear enough!
• ECSU: Not much to do with Photonforge while 100+ heat threshold. this trait realy must affects skills and traits OUT of photonforge - Must affects Exceed Skills!!!

Thief:

• I'd liked theese new skills (Preparations). Great Job here Anet!

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Engineer

Scrappers are seeing a comprehensive rework in this update, targeted at improving the Function Gyro to be more of a core mechanic and unifying some of the disparate themes present in the trait line. These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight. The reworked Impact Savant trait links barrier with dealing damage, making the scrapper a durable combatant as long as they can keep dishing out damage. The refocus on barrier led us to the removal of the Rapid Regeneration trait, which was offering too much health recovery while remaining protected by barrier. Players will still want to have swiftness and superspeed, though, to help dish out that damage with one of the new traits: Object in Motion. Beyond focusing scrappers more clearly around their personal barrier application, their unique Function Gyro mechanic becomes a ground-targeted skill in the F5 slot, which can be enhanced based on trait selection and acts as a general-use ability rather than a niche option for sometimes reviving an ally or finishing a downed enemy. In addition to reworking the scrapper traits, we're also slightly increasing the penalty for holosmiths overheating, as it wasn't commensurate with the level of power granted by holoforge mode.

Please reconsider the F5 change on the Scrapper because various tool belt skills will be lost as a result. A better location for the gyro function would be above the health indicator since the Scrapper doesn't have anything there. Other professions/elite specs have their primary defining skill there. Since gyros are the defining skill for Scrapper logically it should go there.

[inaho.2046]

It would be great if I had some idea what the end goal of these continual balance changes is. My portal monkey, of a former raid chrono is now useless for even that because my thief can portal and boon in the process of doing so? Chrono's cannot effectively tank in raids anymore (the lack of distorion is a killer)? And here I was thinking chrono might get rolled back to a low DPS utility boon sharing elite. Mind you I have one of every elites and am used to shifting around - but I feel like every balance patch is musical chairs with one fewer viable class at the end of each round. Please share the end goal of the balance patches so we know where it is going and can actually plan around that and make sense of the changes. To be honest I've been playing mostly tempest and condi renegade since the last patch - Looks like my condi renegade went from playable to unplayable (again) thanks to energy management, and now my properly played tempest that isn't a one element wonder (but uses all the elements) suddenly got pared to effectively being a one trick pony - which will be boring and fast. I don't know what to say, except that I'm tired of reshufffling characters and being forced from playing the characters I enjoy most to playing characters I enjoy far less because the classes and builds keep changing what is actually viable. Feeling discouraged...

[Sugar Min.5834]

Looking > @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

Engineer

Scrappers are seeing a comprehensive rework in this update, targeted at improving the Function Gyro to be more of a core mechanic and unifying some of the disparate themes present in the trait line. These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight. The reworked Impact Savant trait links barrier with dealing damage, making the scrapper a durable combatant as long as they can keep dishing out damage. The refocus on barrier led us to the removal of the Rapid Regeneration trait, which was offering too much health recovery while remaining protected by barrier. Players will still want to have swiftness and superspeed, though, to help dish out that damage with one of the new traits: Object in Motion. Beyond focusing scrappers more clearly around their personal barrier application, their unique Function Gyro mechanic becomes a ground-targeted skill in the F5 slot, which can be enhanced based on trait selection and acts as a general-use ability rather than a niche option for sometimes reviving an ally or finishing a downed enemy. In addition to reworking the scrapper traits, we're also slightly increasing the penalty for holosmiths overheating, as it wasn't commensurate with the level of power granted by holoforge mode.

Please reconsider the F5 change on the Scrapper because various tool belt skills will be lost as a result. A better location for the gyro function would be above the health indicator since the Scrapper doesn't have anything there. Other professions/elite specs have their primary defining skill there. Since gyros are the defining skill for Scrapper logically it should go there.

Many of the changes are there to cover and justify overly hurting nerfs.

The real intent of slotting Function Gyro in F5 is to... Well, the team just want to delete and totally remove all F5 skills and not because they couldn't find a better place to slot FG.

The patch says "...targeted at improving the Function Gyro blah blah blah... ".

The patch did not explain and justify why they deemed necessary to remove four useful toolbelt skills in the name of so-called improving one near to useless gyro skill?

And the changed gyro function is not a real improvement too. As i have mentioned in the other post, the cool down time has been increased from 10 sec to 30 sec and range cut from 900 to 600.

What is the point of spawning 6 or even 10 function gyros when the radius is only 180? A sneeze from a nearby enemy scourge will blow all away. What improvement?

We have been playing this game for more than 6 years, we can surely differentiate between a real change, a good buff or a nerf sprinkled with icing sugar.

One nerfed skill deleting four toolbelt skills is a good change for Scrapper. Really??

This patch marks the beginning of the end of GW2 if following patches are going to be like this one.

[Saniyah.1984]

Stll no stability for tempest :( Only "Rock solid" has 1 stack for 2.5 second could you buff it to 3 stacks for 3-4 seconds pls(pve/wvw ONLY). 1 stack every 9 seconds is poop, especially with soo much CC spam stuffs ;-;

[Vagrant.7206]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

Engineer

• Scrapper traits have been reworked and repositioned. The specialization line has changed as follows:
  • Minor
    • Impact Savant: This trait no longer increases damage while you have barrier. Instead it converts 15% of all outgoing strike damage into barrier and reduces vitality by 300.

I'd like to ask you to reconsider this specific change for multiple reasons:

• It shoehorns scrapper into power damage. "Outgoing strike damage" almost always means power damage packets, not condi damage. If you want diversity in scrapper builds, this will have the exact opposite effect.
• It harms support scrapper builds -- specifically healing scrapper builds. These builds rarely put out damage -- making them significantly more vulnerable to damage in general. These builds also tend to use condi damage for their damage.
• 300 vitality = 3000 health. In order to get that back in the form of barrier (at a rate of 15%), you would need to do 20,000 damage. In most realistic PvP scenarios, this would be difficult to acquire within the period of time that a burst class could kill you. 15% is reasonable for PvE, but not competitive formats.
• You just nerfed scrapper's damage output overall. It doesn't have the kind of burst berserker does. How is it supposed to make up the 20k damage difference?

[TexZero.7910]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Engineer

• Scrapper traits have been reworked and repositioned. The specialization line has changed as follows:
  • Minor
    • Impact Savant: This trait no longer increases damage while you have barrier. Instead it converts 15% of all outgoing strike damage into barrier and
      reduces vitality by 300.

I'd like to ask you to reconsider this specific change for multiple reasons:

Gotta agree and i'd like to add that this trait is bonkers out of line when it comes to stat reductions for players. Either bring it inline with the 100-150 mark of other reductions or remove that condition entirely.

[Burtnik.5218]

I am just waiting for cooldowns for weapon thief skills. If you can slap cooldowns on rev utilities that use energy then for sure you can slap cd's on thief skills as well. Enough of it. Its time to make it fair. Just a reminder that revenant was never supposed to have cooldown for utilities. Thats what energy system is for. Especially on a upkeep skills. If you plan on adding cooldown just get rid of energy system altogether bc this is no longer the class i decided to play back at HoT.

[Edelweiss.4261]

I like to dabble in all classes a little. It feels like, overall, more nerfs than buffs. Now maybe it's because I'm awful at video games(with the tremors and hand spasms), but I'm not really a fan of nerfs in 99% of cases. Additionally, most of these changes don't seem fun or interesting(though, indeed, some do; yay thief portal). Seeing this, I'm considering just spending most of my time on my ridiculously easy-to-play p/p deadeye for a while. Glad that wasn't touched, at least.

[elemainomegalul.4261]

........................................

[ArtSpace.7326]

It is exhausting. At least you could introduce build templates already, as a returning player who is trying to find main class again, I can not stand gear, trait swapping, that is required to try new builds. It takes times, which could be spent elsewhere.

[nthmetal.9652]

@ArtSpace.7326 said:It is exhausting. At least you could introduce build templates already, as a returning player who is trying to find main class again, I can not stand gear, trait swapping, that is required to try new builds. It takes times, which could be spent elsewhere.

But it is a way to keep people engaged with the game. Of course we whine about the changes, but as there are nerfs across the board, maybe they are slowly working to bring all professions to a lower baseline to counter the power creep of the last years. Hopefully in the end, we'll see a new meta emerge, which is as fun or more fun than the current one.It's a lose-lose situation for ArenaNet anyway: They change nothing and people complain and ultimately some of us will drift away, because nothing happens. They change something and people complain and some of us will ultimately drift away.

However, those that stay are more dedicated. Willing to change builds, try out something new. Spend resources in gathering gear. Spend time in learning a new build. It's all time you spend actually playing the game. It does keep people engaged. (and those that leave? They were probably not really engaged anymore before the change)

[Kylden Ar.3724]

It's so cute that people keep responding here like this is still up for debate with ANET. It's not. This is telling us exactly what kitten we are getting but giving the 1% client base time to plan their trading post flips. That is it. This is not a negotiation.

The only thing that will get them to stop future patches like this is if we stop playing and buying gems.

[yusayu.3629]

Why would you nerf Chrono in PvE even more?!

It's already pushed out of relevance by Firebrigade, Fractals are ran with 3 guards (2DGH, QFB) these days, yet no nerfs to DGH or FB?

[Dami.5046]

deleted postpast caring.

[Lion.6590]

Okay, I want to thank you guys for giving us a heads up on what is changing.Here is the I things I have in my mind right now:

• Ancestral Grace: This skill no longer evades attacks. Increased recharge from 18 seconds to 20 seconds. If at least 1 ally other than yourself is healed, the recharge is reduced by 5 seconds.This might be a valid nerf, but wasn't necessary for the PvE. You could just have reduced the range with the evade time.Also, are you guys going to fix the bug with skills like Ancestral Grace and Celestial Dash (Cairn special action key)? Some times you use it and you stay at the same place... It's been like that for months.

The Holosmith (trade-off?) wasn't necessary imo, It would be okay if you guys increased the overheat damage penalty. Just don't forget that Holo needs a small buff in PvE compared to the other jobs and you guys just nerfed it in PvE...Scrapper got tweaked again and lost his F5 skill, but got a better function gyro, that's great. But stealth got a buff with that cause no more Detection Pulse. We could use more revealed, for example, Necro only has access to revealed in the core Shroud. This could be changed to make specs like Reaper/Scourge have access to it too.

Long Range Shot and Spatial Surge, the damage scales dynamically now, cool less text, but there is something I don't understand. Why the damage increase with the range? I feel like those skills should have higher damage at close range and lose potency beyond the 600/900 range threshold. The current meta of this game in PvE is 99% of the time stack with your friends at the boss feet, then you have these skills that deal more damage at long range which make them useless in most cases and you also have rangers/mesmers camping at trees pressing 1 and getting zero support from their allies...I don't need to mention rangers in PvP/WvW dealing 4~9k damage at 1600 range of you, but at least Soulbeast got a nerf yay!

For Necro, I agree that they should be able to keep their Healing/Utility/Elite while in Death/Reaper's Shroud. I also hope that Scourge Harbinger Shroud AoE effect will get some cleanup with this update because that effect is a mess and I don't know why you guys left it like that for so long.

[Flandre.2870]

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[lunaeclipse.6843]

Revenant changes look really good. The cooldowns added to Call to Anguish and EtD are gonna suck kitten, but this is a good direction.

Overall DPS increase for the raid build, and more survivability and CC in PvP are good changes in my book.

[judgebeo.3976]

I would like to see how all this changes work togehter, but there is one thing im not understanding:Anet says: "we want that there is a cost in choosing the specializaiton line".Well as far as I see this applies to some specs and not others. For example mesmer: If you choose chrono line you loose your 4/seconds distortion that, can be recharged with illusion signet, also, you NEED at least one clone to shatter (so traits that give you boons or remove condis through shatter dont work anymore if you dont have an illusion) AND the mesmer itself is removed from the shatter effect...Ok... but what happens if you choose a mirage? there is no drawback. Just get better dodge, attack while dodge, dodge while stun... extra condition damage, all the shatters and the mesmer also acting as an illusion on shatter.

There are other specs that got the same feeling and still not understanding the "policy" of anet specs/classes reviews sometimes.

This is not a complaint, im sure there is a reason for that all and, maybe, when the changes are on live everything is gonna have snese, but, actually looking what anet says thay want classes/skills to be (not passive, then, more active playing) and balancing the specs so they mean not only a beneffit, also a backdraw... seems they are just focusing on one part of the game, not the whole.