Jump to content
  • Sign Up

New Daggerstorm change coming question.


Recommended Posts

Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vancho.8750 said:Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.10s cd on daggerstorm is fine? :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:Can mesmer distortion to be 10s as well ?I dont see how its buff in pve, they use elite venom for heavy CC.They need to change improv to not recharge it, ever, not nerf DS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.10s cd on daggerstorm is fine? :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:Can mesmer distortion to be 10s as well ?I dont see how its buff in pve, they use elite venom for heavy CC.They need to change improv to not recharge it, ever, not nerf DS.

Are you really comparing mesmer sustain to thief sustain?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.10s cd on daggerstorm is fine? :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:Can mesmer distortion to be 10s as well ?I dont see how its buff in pve, they use elite venom for heavy CC.They need to change improv to not recharge it, ever, not nerf DS.

Are you really comparing mesmer sustain to thief sustain?I didnt compare anything, if he think 4s evade-dps mode is fine, just invul for ~1-3s avg is would be pretty fair.Its been calculated that core s/d thief has highest evasion uptime compared to weaver and UNNERFED mirage with 1s MC, now mesmer evasion is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind. Not sure why you brought it here, even Sind said DS shouldnt be recharged by improv and there is nothing "skilled" about it this elite, want to argue with him as well ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.10s cd on daggerstorm is fine? :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:Can mesmer distortion to be 10s as well ?I dont see how its buff in pve, they use elite venom for heavy CC.They need to change improv to not recharge it, ever, not nerf DS.

Are you really comparing mesmer sustain to thief sustain?I didnt compare anything, if he think 4s evade-dps mode is fine, just invul for ~1-3s avg is would be pretty fair.Its been calculated that core s/d thief has highest evasion uptime compared to weaver and UNNERFED mirage with 1s MC, now mesmer evasion is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind. Not sure why you brought it here, even Sind said DS shouldnt be recharged by improv and there is nothing "skilled" about it this elite, want to argue with him as well ?

I don't give a shit what Sindrener says lmao

If you nerf DS then you nerf the only thing that keeps thief actually playable in top end PvP and basically relegates to a literal decap bot which ironically is the only reason it's in PvP at the moment is it's decapping potential anyway , not double DS btw.

You should understand the difference between it being a non-skilled elite vs it being the ONLY elite that's viable for thief. What do you expect people to run for an elite as a thief? It's the only logical choice since everything else was nerfed.

If you actually knew thief, you'd know this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.10s cd on daggerstorm is fine? :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:Can mesmer distortion to be 10s as well ?I dont see how its buff in pve, they use elite venom for heavy CC.They need to change improv to not recharge it, ever, not nerf DS.

Are you really comparing mesmer sustain to thief sustain?I didnt compare anything, if he think 4s evade-dps mode is fine, just invul for ~1-3s avg is would be pretty fair.Its been calculated that core s/d thief has highest evasion uptime compared to weaver and UNNERFED mirage with 1s MC, now mesmer evasion is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind. Not sure why you brought it here, even Sind said DS shouldnt be recharged by improv and there is nothing "skilled" about it this elite, want to argue with him as well ?

I don't give a kitten what Sindrener says lmao

If you nerf DS then you nerf the only thing that keeps thief actually playable in top end PvP and basically relegates to a literal decap bot which ironically is the only reason it's in PvP at the moment is it's decapping potential anyway , not double DS btw.

If you actually knew thief, you'd know this.I dont care what you think what keeps thief viable or not. All I care about is stupid interaction between DS and improv to RANDOMLY recharge it.O, want an example ? Chrono with a scepter 3, that was the only thing that kept it viable, but oh nooooooooo, it was over-nerfed even more than it was before the buff,that wasnt popular at all and only one team ever brought it in mAT and nobody else. If you still dont get it -> they dont care if its keep X class viable or not, they just nerf it if they feel like it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is not the skill itself, it's an elite with 90s cd it has to be good or at least worth to use it.The real problem is that it gets reset by improv and that's super broken, improv shouldn't restore elite/heals period. I wish I had my vod where in one of my matches improv procs DS 7 times lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"ZhouX.8742" said:It's also funny how you define sustain by how much evasion each class... Not everything else in Mirage's kit btw

Shows truly how much you literally know nothing about sustain and it's forms in PvP

SmhThat also shows that you know nothing about "sustain" (that had nothing to do with my post, alienbrain), avoid damage->facetank damage fyi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Elxdark.9702 said:The problem is not the skill itself, it's an elite with 90s cd it has to be good or at least worth to use it.The real problem is that it gets reset by improv and that's super broken, improv shouldn't restore elite/heals period. I wish I had my vod where in one of my matches improv procs DS 7 times lolThis. When improv hit the trick category you get : healing skill (evade), roll for initiative(evade+initiative obsly), DS another 4s of evade and AoE damage. Thats literally BETTER than CS elite F5. RNG shouldnt ever affect competive game modes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.10s cd on daggerstorm is fine? :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:Can mesmer distortion to be 10s as well ?I dont see how its buff in pve, they use elite venom for heavy CC.They need to change improv to not recharge it, ever, not nerf DS.

Are you really comparing mesmer sustain to thief sustain?I didnt compare anything, if he think 4s evade-dps mode is fine, just invul for ~1-3s avg is would be pretty fair.Its been calculated that core s/d thief has highest evasion uptime compared to weaver and UNNERFED mirage with 1s MC, now mesmer evasion is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind. Not sure why you brought it here, even Sind said DS shouldnt be recharged by improv and there is nothing "skilled" about it this elite, want to argue with him as well ?

I don't give a kitten what Sindrener says lmao

If you nerf DS then you nerf the only thing that keeps thief actually playable in top end PvP and basically relegates to a literal decap bot which ironically is the only reason it's in PvP at the moment is it's decapping potential anyway , not double DS btw.

If you actually knew thief, you'd know this.I dont care what you think what keeps thief viable or not. All I care about is stupid interaction between DS and improv to RANDOMLY recharge it.O, want an example ? Chrono with a scepter 3, that was the only thing that kept it viable, but oh nooooooooo, it was over-nerfed even more than it was before the buff,that wasnt popular at all and only one team ever brought it in mAT and nobody else. If you still dont get it -> they dont care if its keep X class viable or not, they just nerf it if they feel like it.

Thief is not in matches for double DS from improv so it's not as broken as you think, this is the point you seem to keep missing. It's in PvP matches right now because it's decapping power, mobility and 1up pressure potential. The only reason.

You could essentially nerf improv and drop double DS and it will still be in matches ruining your day as a mesmer because it's your natural counter.

Again, clueless about thief.

You are the only one who is clueless. Even the best thief in the game that is far more intelligent than 99.9% of the forum said himself that is broken but hey you know better than anyone apparently :joy:Cba to argue with stubborn delusional people, wont respond to you,ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ZhouX.8742 said:It's also funny how you define sustain by how much evasion each class... Not everything else in Mirage's kit btw

Shows truly how much you literally know nothing about sustain and it's forms in PvP

Smh

It is not the only measure, but evasion + block + distortion + healing + cleanse + stealth+ damage reduction (toughness, protection or otherwise). Core thief has better sustainability against classes with heavy aoe than Mesmer. And generally, core thief S/D has extremely high ability to avoid damage, even if the remaining options are not high.

Regardless of thief sustainability, a skill with distortion, 4 sec duration, does decent damage and prevents does point contribution needs a nerf. Add to that, random proc, something definitely needed to change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shade.8971 said:What did thief get in return? Useless traitline changes for troll builds and new utilities that can't compete with meta utilities.

<- thief main

Yes it helps with survival but it's primarily a damage ability, often utilised for cleaving or getting a target down.

They reduced the cast time. They didn't reduce the damage.

Same damage occurs over 3 seconds instead of 4. This is a damage buff. That's what you get in return.

There is your tradeoff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Impact.2780 said:

@Shade.8971 said:What did thief get in return? Useless traitline changes for troll builds and new utilities that can't compete with meta utilities.

<- thief main

Yes it helps with survival but it's primarily a damage ability, often utilised for cleaving or getting a target down.

They reduced the cast time. They didn't reduce the damage.

Same damage occurs over 3 seconds instead of 4. This is a damage buff. That's what you get in return.

There is your tradeoff.

Total dmg was nerfed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Impact.2780 said:

@Shade.8971 said:What did thief get in return? Useless traitline changes for troll builds and new utilities that can't compete with meta utilities.

<- thief main

Yes it helps with survival but it's primarily a damage ability, often utilised for cleaving or getting a target down.

They reduced the cast time. They didn't reduce the damage.

Same damage occurs over 3 seconds instead of 4. This is a damage buff. That's what you get in return.

There is your tradeoff.

I've read that the same way you did, it is an evade nerf but a damage buff.ANerf didn't say anywhere the damage was reduced too, so I guess it's similar to when BF was reduced, meaning the damage you dealt over the course of 4 secs is now done in 3secs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Shade.8971 said:What did thief get in return? Useless traitline changes for troll builds and new utilities that can't compete with meta utilities.

<- thief main

Yes it helps with survival but it's primarily a damage ability, often utilised for cleaving or getting a target down.

They reduced the cast time. They didn't reduce the damage.

Same damage occurs over 3 seconds instead of 4. This is a damage buff. That's what you get in return.

There is your tradeoff.

I've read that the same way you did, it is an evade nerf but a damage buff.ANerf didn't say anywhere the damage was reduced too, so I guess it's similar to when BF was reduced, meaning the damage you dealt over the course of 4 secs is now done in 3secs.

they literally gave a +33% dmg buff to it in pve to compensate so dont get your hopes up that the damage stays the same in pvp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm.

This description of change has a little semantic ambiguity.

So dagger storm in PvP will cast for 2.8 s and evade for 3.15 s ?

Or, is it simply a reduction in the pre-action time and lowering the chance of interruption?

I have stopped DS with steal before, and it has happen to me when someone triggered FC right as I started casting.

I'm not sure this is a nerf.

Would be nice if any dev would clarify.

Yeah, yeah we find out in a couple days....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Shade.8971 said:What did thief get in return? Useless traitline changes for troll builds and new utilities that can't compete with meta utilities.

Well, I have faith in the portal skill.

What are you going to drop for that though, every 1 uses signet of agility and shadow step, that leaves the 3rd for roll for ini/blinding powder/bandits defence.

Cant really think of any reason to use a 1 way 5 person portal in spvp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Pretty sure people had issue only when it went of twice in a row and that thief could deny caps with it. If they made the reset have like around 10 seconds in between casts so it is not daggerstorm steal daggerstorm, wouldn't have been so bad, but now they now nerfed it for pvp and it feels like huge buff for pve since you are not locked in animation.10s cd on daggerstorm is fine? :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:Can mesmer distortion to be 10s as well ?I dont see how its buff in pve, they use elite venom for heavy CC.They need to change improv to not recharge it, ever, not nerf DS.

Are you really comparing mesmer sustain to thief sustain?I didnt compare anything, if he think 4s evade-dps mode is fine, just invul for ~1-3s avg is would be pretty fair.Its been calculated that core s/d thief has highest evasion uptime compared to weaver and UNNERFED mirage with 1s MC, now mesmer evasion is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind. Not sure why you brought it here, even Sind said DS shouldnt be recharged by improv and there is nothing "skilled" about it this elite, want to argue with him as well ?

I don't give a kitten what Sindrener says lmao

If you nerf DS then you nerf the only thing that keeps thief actually playable in top end PvP and basically relegates to a literal decap bot which ironically is the only reason it's in PvP at the moment is it's decapping potential anyway , not double DS btw.

If you actually knew thief, you'd know this.I dont care what you think what keeps thief viable or not. All I care about is stupid interaction between DS and improv to RANDOMLY recharge it.O, want an example ? Chrono with a scepter 3, that was the only thing that kept it viable, but oh nooooooooo, it was over-nerfed even more than it was before the buff,that wasnt popular at all and only one team ever brought it in mAT and nobody else. If you still dont get it -> they dont care if its keep X class viable or not, they just nerf it if they feel like it.

Thief is not in matches for double DS from improv so it's not as broken as you think, this is the point you seem to keep missing. It's in PvP matches right now because it's decapping power, mobility and 1up pressure potential. The only reason.

You could essentially nerf improv and drop double DS and it will still be in matches ruining your day as a mesmer because it's your natural counter.

Again, clueless about thief.

You are the only one who is clueless. Even the best thief in the game that is far more intelligent than 99.9% of the forum said himself that is broken but hey you know better than anyone apparently :joy:Cba to argue with stubborn delusional people, wont respond to you,ever.

What? He never said ds was fair or that improv is balanced at recharging ds, we all know its busted but that is also why everyone uses it, it's too good not to take it. bv is only good I'd say for the break bar on lord lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...