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Wow These Upcoming Mallyx Changes...


narcx.3570

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@narcx.3570 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Did any of u did math for condi rene? Everyone is complaining but I don't see any numbers for dps decrease/increase.Diviner rene is getting buff from icerazor and UI. Npng in fractals won't be that cancer anymore as u will be able to pull trash mobs. Well also see how malyx elite will work

It will 100% be a group dps loss due to the loss of finishers alone... Likely what will happen to the rotation tho is that the legends will swap, going M/A+mallyx+citadel and then SB+Kalla, which will not be as big of a personal loss for you as the Ren--but you're still going to be blocking a lot of finishers for the rest of your group, which will cut group dps and more importantly just make other people not want to play with Rens.

Either that, or you'll just eat the dps loss and do something like Baelfire+Shiro+Kalla, to sidestep the dark field problem all together. Can't stress enough how horrible that thing is, especially if you're the type of person who's playing condiren on fights other than Dhuum where there are a lot of Mirages who thrive on living inside those Fire/Confounding/Smoke fields. Personally, I won't be letting people bring condiren to Matt/Cairn/SH/Largos/Sabir anymore in my groups, cuz I know me, and I know seeing all those leeching bolts will get me so tilted... And like, I try not to be too toxic, so I want to avoid putting myself in those situations. :bleep_bloop:

im lost now. which classes will lose dps becouse of dark field?

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I'm not a big fan of these changes. It's nice to get more CC, but the 5 second cool down removes most of Mallyx's mobility. I get that there needs to be a cool down since the CC was added, but I feel this change will push more people to use Shiro for mobility. These changes could benefit small scale PvP fights, but it may hurt all other uses of Mallyx. The cool down on the elite seems painful too. You'll have to plan your skill rotations ahead of time so that you can camp Embrace the Darkness for damage.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:T'would be nice to have whirl finishers in dark fields give tormenting bolts instead of leeching.

Yeh, if they changed dark field projectile/whirl finishers to be tormenting, this change wouldn't be nearly as devastating for PvE ren... It would even probably end up being a dps increase due to Yearning Empowerment--and also just torment vs certain bosses for everyone else's finishers.

@Safandula.8723 said:im lost now. which classes will lose dps becouse of dark field?

Right out of the gate, a big loss for any condi dps with projectile or whirl finishers that they spam: Mirage (as I mentioned), Condi Zerk bs/dps, Soulbeast (esp sb^3), Condiren, Condi reaper, Condi dd (although those last two aren't exactly meta choices anymore). Also, it's a big hit for power DD's who not only get some supplemental dps through their whirls, but more importantly fuel Exposed Weaknesses through a lot of these varied condi applications.

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It's pretty funny to see people's outrage about these changes and the catastrophy-and-totall-annihilation -of-class predictions without knowing a single number in the skills.

Lol, All of a sudden everyone is a total Mallyx main and cares about it so much that every single change is definitely going to kill the legend and make just completely trash and our beloved most playable legend is now going to grave, that's the end.

At this point these aren't even rational arguments. It's some kind of a hate towards the Devs who dared to touch this precious legend. It's hard to even call it one's opinion.

Wait and see, if it's trash - suggest solutions, if not - play it.

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@"DonArkanio.6419" said:It's pretty funny to see people's outrage about these changes and the catastrophy-and-totall-annihilation -of-class predictions without knowing a single number in the skills.

Lol, All of a sudden everyone is a total Mallyx main and cares about it so much that every single change is definitely going to kill the legend and make just completely trash and our beloved most playable legend is now going to grave, that's the end.

At this point these aren't even rational arguments. It's some kind of a hate towards the Devs who dared to touch this precious legend. It's hard to even call it one's opinion.

Wait and see, if it's trash - suggest solutions, if not - play it.

First off, we do know the numbers... They said: "The amount of torment applied per pulse is unchanged, but using a skill that costs energy now increases the stacks of torment applied on the next pulse by 2." So it will be 6 second stacks of torment, as it is now--except it will be 3 stacks if you used a skill. And unyielding anguish will apply 0 torment, just chill now.

But, the reason I (and most people) said Renegade dps is dead from raiding has nothing to do with numbers, and everything to do with the mobile dark field. Nobody is going to want the group dps to be slashed by such a dumb mechanic, and it is objectively dumb because it completely deletes an entire section of the game's mechanics from consideration. Imagine if they changed it so like heal tempests had a permanent water field around them? It'd be the same story, nobody would want to bring that kitten to a raid.

This is especially compounded by how renegade is a condi class that you bring to condi fights--and condi dps classes are the ones that make the most use of combo fields. Like, people care a lot less about DH light auras all over the place because DH is only played on power fights, and is usually stacked anyways. But if someone brings a DH to matthias--which is already pretty ugh--suddenly those light auras start making people super tilted.

If they get rid of the dark field... Or change dark fields to apply torment instead of life steal on projectile/whirls, then I agree, that it wouldn't be the end of the class. But is anet likely to do this? Definitely not on Tuesday's patch... Maybe in like 4 months tho.

Also, I don't have to actually play the new version of Mallyx to tell you that those cool downs are just going to feel clunky and gross, and severely limit your overall utility--with the exception of fractal divinegades already taking mallyx for NPNG, who will appreciate the addition of a pull.

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@DonArkanio.6419 said:It's pretty funny to see people's outrage about these changes and the catastrophy-and-totall-annihilation -of-class predictions without knowing a single number in the skills.

Lol, All of a sudden everyone is a total Mallyx main and cares about it so much that every single change is definitely going to kill the legend and make just completely trash and our beloved most playable legend is now going to grave, that's the end.

At this point these aren't even rational arguments. It's some kind of a hate towards the Devs who dared to touch this precious legend. It's hard to even call it one's opinion.

Wait and see, if it's trash - suggest solutions, if not - play it.

Ive been roaming with Mallyx for like 3 months. I know Mallyx like noone else does and these changes are horrible and not what was needed. Also as mentioned it even guts him in pve. No core legend should have cd's, especially not on a upkeep. And reworked Mallyx field better come with 1200 range if they wanna slap 5cd on it and increase cost.

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@DonArkanio.6419 said:

Well, that would be very reasonable. Instead of removing skills and replacing them they could really add them as an option. Because... Just why not? Would it really powercreep Revenant or allow it to overperform? I don't think so. This would be the way to go. Noone would be hurt since this was a completely new skill that you can choose.

Traits as a method of altering the skills could also work. Take the trait, and the skill changes from a pull into an exclusion zone.

Broadly speaking, I think the change means well. Mallyx has had the problem for a while that he had two skills that basically did exactly the same thing: namely, converting energy into Torment stacks. I think it's worthwhile to adjust so that one had that function, and the other was primarily used for something else.

I suspect that the changes proposed will prove to be a net nerf, though. A step forward, but not quite in the right direction.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:

Well, that would be very reasonable. Instead of removing skills and replacing them they could really add them as an option. Because... Just why not? Would it really powercreep Revenant or allow it to overperform? I don't think so. This would be the way to go. Noone would be hurt since this was a completely new skill that you
can choose
.

Traits as a method of altering the skills could also work. Take the trait, and the skill changes from a pull into an exclusion zone.

Broadly speaking, I think the change means well. Mallyx has had the problem for a while that he had two skills that basically did exactly the same thing: namely, converting energy into Torment stacks. I think it's worthwhile to adjust so that one had that function, and the other was primarily used for something else.

I
suspect
that the changes proposed will prove to be a net nerf, though. A step forward, but not quite in the right direction.

I think it's definitely a net nerf. They stripped out one skill's damage and put it into another skill that's less versatile, then added cooldowns to both.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:I suspect that the changes proposed will prove to be a net nerf, though. A step forward, but not quite in the right direction.@"Clownmug.8357" said:I think it's definitely a net nerf. They stripped out one skill's damage and put it into another skill that's less versatile, then added cooldowns to both.

To expand on that, in the current game UA is so much better than EtD because it doesn't halt (and drain) your energy regeneration and you can quick spam it allowing you to unload a bunch of energy at once. In Tuesday's iteration of the game the only energy dump Mallyx will have is Banish Enchantment, which is meh dot com. It's things like this that--like you said--will limit the class's versatility and will make it perform at a much lesser level in actual raids.

And yeah, I do admit that their reasoning was somewhat pretty good, we had two skills that did essentially the same thing on paper (although not really in execution.) The problem is that they changed the wrong skill IMO and made the Legend just worse in every game mode (except fractals where it was only really used for a boon strip anyways.) I think it would have been much better if they left UA as is and reworked Embrace into a more PvP focused skill. Keep the dark field (which is only, i don't want to say "good," but good in PvP) and maybe let it transfer condi's on pulses if you used an energy skill or whatever... Maybe also add some sort of life siphoning element to it... Something like that. This would have at least opened up some more brawler options for Mallyx, while leaving renegades pretty unphased in PvE. Instead we got a straight PvE nerf for a utility skill thats going to be not nearly enough for any sort of PvP/WvW impact.

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@"DonArkanio.6419" said:It's pretty funny to see people's outrage about these changes and the catastrophy-and-totall-annihilation -of-class predictions without knowing a single number in the skills.

Lol, All of a sudden everyone is a total Mallyx main and cares about it so much that every single change is definitely going to kill the legend and make just completely trash and our beloved most playable legend is now going to grave, that's the end.

At this point these aren't even rational arguments. It's some kind of a hate towards the Devs who dared to touch this precious legend. It's hard to even call it one's opinion.

Wait and see, if it's trash - suggest solutions, if not - play it.

I've been playing Mallyx since HOT dropped and it is by far my most played profession in WvW since then. Just because people aren't forum regulars doesn't mean that they aren't out there playing the game. It's also an exaggeration to say that anyone who disagrees with this balance patch is only posting to "hate" on the developers. Mallyx is losing its mobility and cool downs are being applied to more skills. I hope that the new skill can make up for it, but I'm very concerned with the current release notes.

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@"Dagger.2035" said:I've been playing Mallyx since HOT dropped and it is by far my most played profession in WvW since then. Just because people aren't forum regulars doesn't mean that they aren't out there playing the game. It's also an exaggeration to say that anyone who disagrees with this balance patch is only posting to "hate" on the developers. Mallyx is losing its mobility and cool downs are being applied to more skills. I hope that the new skill can make up for it, but I'm very concerned with the current release notes.

It's looking really positive so far for raid DPS atm. If you pop EtD as soon as u go into mallyx you should get 10 pulses out (1 per second), and since old UA gives 8 torment per use (4 base +4 chill) that would mean you only need a minimum of 3 Etd procs to break even on torment application from 2 old UA's. Realistically you should be able to get a lot more (5+ from 3 sb2's, 2 sb3's, and 2 sb4's), which means condi dps should go up, provided there isn't something stupid like a 3s CD on the EtD procs.

The side note that is nice is that mallyx can actually do break bar damage now other than sb5.

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@Clownmug.8357 said:

Well, that would be very reasonable. Instead of removing skills and replacing them they could really add them as an option. Because... Just why not? Would it really powercreep Revenant or allow it to overperform? I don't think so. This would be the way to go. Noone would be hurt since this was a completely new skill that you
can choose
.

Traits as a method of altering the skills could also work. Take the trait, and the skill changes from a pull into an exclusion zone.

Broadly speaking, I think the change means well. Mallyx has had the problem for a while that he had two skills that basically did exactly the same thing: namely, converting energy into Torment stacks. I think it's worthwhile to adjust so that one had that function, and the other was primarily used for something else.

I
suspect
that the changes proposed will prove to be a net nerf, though. A step forward, but not quite in the right direction.

I think it's definitely a net nerf. They stripped out one skill's damage and put it into another skill that's less versatile, then added cooldowns to both.

It is giving them a new capability, however. From a power perspective, it probably is a step back overall - we'll see how it shakes out, but that's what my gut is telling me as well. From a design perspective, though, I think it's a step forward which could lead to Mallyx being in a better shape sometime in the future. How many iterations that will take, at three months or so per balance patch, however...

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@Burtnik.5218 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:It's pretty funny to see people's outrage about these changes and the catastrophy-and-totall-annihilation -of-class predictions without knowing a single number in the skills.

Lol, All of a sudden everyone is a total Mallyx main and cares about it so much that every single change is definitely going to kill the legend and make just completely trash and our beloved most playable legend is now going to grave, that's the end.

At this point these aren't even rational arguments. It's some kind of a hate towards the Devs who dared to touch this precious legend. It's hard to even call it one's opinion.

Wait and see, if it's trash - suggest solutions, if not - play it.

Ive been roaming with Mallyx for like 3 months. I know Mallyx like noone else does and these changes are horrible and not what was needed. Also as mentioned it even guts him in pve. No core legend should have cd's, especially not on a upkeep. And reworked Mallyx field better come with 1200 range if they wanna slap 5cd on it and increase cost.

Three whole months? My goodness you're a pro sir! Is that how you calculated your bonkers field range? 400 points for each month you spent knowing Mallyx like no one else does?

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@Ertrak.9506 said:

@"Dagger.2035" said:I've been playing Mallyx since HOT dropped and it is by far my most played profession in WvW since then. Just because people aren't forum regulars doesn't mean that they aren't out there playing the game. It's also an exaggeration to say that anyone who disagrees with this balance patch is only posting to "hate" on the developers. Mallyx is losing its mobility and cool downs are being applied to more skills. I hope that the new skill can make up for it, but I'm very concerned with the current release notes.

It's looking really positive so far for raid DPS atm. If you pop EtD as soon as u go into mallyx you should get 10 pulses out (1 per second), and since old UA gives 8 torment per use (4 base +4 chill) that would mean you only need a minimum of 3 Etd procs to break even on torment application from 2 old UA's. Realistically you should be able to get a lot more (5+ from 3 sb2's, 2 sb3's, and 2 sb4's), which means condi dps should go up, provided there isn't something stupid like a 3s CD on the EtD procs.

The side note that is nice is that mallyx can actually do break bar damage now other than sb5.

You lose all of your (and everyone in your group's) combo field finishers tho... Average renegades use about 30 seven shots and 200 shatter shots over the course of a Dhuum pull at the 90th percentile... That's an average on 81 successful finisher procs per renegade--most of which will be burning, which outscales torment even with yearning empowerment and boss movement by over twice as much per tick. All of that will be turned into life-stealing (assuming the rotation stays on SB+Mallyx, which I suspect it probably won't due to precisely this.)

Also, you won't be able to hoard energy while doing mechanics (or for openers on fights with pre events) and quickly dump it into damage via a triple UA spam. This is probably where renegades will lose the most damage in actual fights from the changes. Since you won't want to forfeit all that energy and lose your charged mists proc, you're going to have to dump it into like sb5+banish enchantment, so now you're trading 24 torments for 9 confusions and a burn every time you have to do mechanics.

While the golem benchmarks might not take much of a hit, this will not be a buff in actual fights--especially not when you factor in group dps. Even if your finishers personally won't be hit from your rotation changing from SB+Mallyx to SB+Kalla(or shiro), your mirage/soulbeast/condi bs friends will still all be hit hard by your big gross 10-12second long Dark Field.

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@"narcx.3570" said:You lose all of your (and everyone in your group's) combo field finishers tho... Average renegades use about 30 seven shots and 200 shatter shots over the course of a Dhuum pull at the 90th percentile... That's an average on 81 successful finisher procs per renegade--most of which will be burning, which outscales torment even with yearning empowerment and boss movement by over twice as much per tick. All of that will be turned into life-stealing (assuming the rotation stays on SB+Mallyx, which I suspect it probably won't due to precisely this.)

Also, you won't be able to hoard energy while doing mechanics (or for openers on fights with pre events) and quickly dump it into damage via a triple UA spam. This is probably where renegades will lose the most damage in actual fights from the changes. Since you won't want to forfeit all that energy and lose your charged mists proc, you're going to have to dump it into like sb5+banish enchantment, so now you're trading 24 torments for 9 confusions and a burn every time you have to do mechanics.

While the golem benchmarks might not take much of a hit, this will not be a buff in actual fights--especially not when you factor in group dps. Even if your finishers personally won't be hit from your rotation changing from SB+Mallyx to SB+Kalla(or shiro), your mirage/soulbeast/condi bs friends will still all be hit hard by your big gross 10-12second long Dark Field.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_field

Yeah that whopping 2s of burn is really doing much. Even you were even slightly correct the meta would be baelfire runes instead of nightmare since you get more burning duration out it (the increased burning duration does not outweigh the extra condi dmg stats that multiplies torment further). Combo finishers have almost never been relevant unless you were a condi DD, and thats not talking about how they were never reliable in the first place with all the spam from chronos (ethereal), druid (waters). And even then? Any fire field placed before activating EtD will take precedence over the dark field rendering your argument moot. Nobody is taking you seriously.

Dumping energy for triple UA only help with condition ramp and is only relavent on fights you shouldn't be bringing a rev to anyways.

https://dps.report/XQE0-20190610-220059_dhuum

I know what i'm talking about.

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@Ertrak.9506 said:

@"narcx.3570" said:You lose all of your (and everyone in your group's) combo field finishers tho... Average renegades use about 30 seven shots and 200 shatter shots over the course of a Dhuum pull at the 90th percentile... That's an average on 81 successful finisher procs per renegade--most of which will be burning, which outscales torment even with yearning empowerment and boss movement by over twice as much per tick. All of that will be turned into life-stealing (assuming the rotation stays on SB+Mallyx, which I suspect it probably won't due to precisely this.)

Also, you won't be able to hoard energy while doing mechanics (or for openers on fights with pre events) and quickly dump it into damage via a triple UA spam. This is probably where renegades will lose the most damage in actual fights from the changes. Since you won't want to forfeit all that energy
and
lose your charged mists proc, you're going to have to dump it into like sb5+banish enchantment, so now you're trading 24 torments for 9 confusions and a burn every time you have to do mechanics.

While the golem benchmarks might not take much of a hit, this will not be a buff in actual fights--especially not when you factor in group dps. Even if your finishers personally won't be hit from your rotation changing from SB+Mallyx to SB+Kalla(or shiro), your mirage/soulbeast/condi bs friends will still all be hit hard by your big gross 10-12second long Dark Field.

Yeah that whopping 2s of burn is really doing much. Even you were even slightly correct the meta would be baelfire runes instead of nightmare since you get more burning duration out it (the increased burning duration does not outweigh the extra condi dmg stats that multiplies torment further). Combo finishers have almost never been relevant unless you were a condi DD, and thats not talking about how they were never reliable in the first place with all the spam from chronos (ethereal), druid (waters). And even then? Any fire field placed before activating EtD will take precedence over the dark field rendering your argument moot. Nobody is taking you seriously.

Dumping energy for triple UA only help with condition ramp and is only relavent on fights you shouldn't be bringing a rev to anyways.

I know what i'm talking about.

How did you get zero of those 15 bombs? Is there some baiting method I need to know about for these, or just god-level RNG?

For the record, I know what I'm talking about too (although maybe not if there's some ninja way to not get the bomb mechanics that I don't know about :bleep_bloop:), but I don't save old logs where I got zero mechanics and super dunked on him. Here's my most recent from last week tho and you should be able to tell by my 34k opener and spikes that I'm speaking from a point of experience as well.

https://dps.report/gcdj-20190708-173757_dhuum

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