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@judgebeo.3976 said:

Ok... but what happens if you choose a mirage? there is a drawback. Just get a worse dodge, 1/3 of the attack covered by dodge, dodge while stun... a bunch of worse less traits to get into IH, all the shatters and the mesmer also acting as an illusion on shatter.

Just a little FTFY.

There is no drawback... Dont play the clueless guy.

A dodge that covers less distance than a regular dodge.Dodge while attacking is dead since the 0.25sec nerf, every ambush is cast between half and 2/3 outside mirage cloak.Nice try tho.

I don't know how much you played chrono, core or mirage, I assume you played them a lot when you do this statments, the question is. Ask yourself what are you playing actually? Even with this "drawbacks" you say, im pretty sure you keep playing mirage.The thing is that mirage line makes you being the only one able to dodge no matter what happens. That means, you cant be locked down for a big dps or burst, you can do it at the same time the opponent attacks, so you hit him, but he can't hit you (and is not a block that you can ignore with some skills, is invulnerable), also, the distance of the dodge, if you run forward, is not even noticable, but, on the other side, you can stay still dodging, what is also uniq and pretty useful sometimes. Not only that, that trait gives you condi damage buff, but also, healing on every dodge, and protection after that dodge and not happy with that you also your illusions spaming condis at the same rate than you, then comes the shatter, that got the same effect as the core mesmer.Just think, where is the drawback? No other line is being able to give you condi time reduction, good heal every dodge, condi damage bonus, illusion damage, defensive boons (regen, prot, vigor...) and, also, a dodge that permits you to control the direction easily, or stand still, that permits you attacking while you do it (so you dont need skill on dodge / counter attack timing), and even if you get stuned, or inmobilized, you still being able to dodge anything...Im not asking for a nerf, just saying that the idea of choosing and spec must have its drawbacks is pretty good, but while on chrono you kill distorision... yes 1-4 secs invulneravility that you were able to recast with another shatter, or sigil of illusions like in mirage or core... and loosing the mesmer shater on itself... AND loosing the posibility of use a shatter without clones (1 second of invul/dist/condi removed/heal/ or 1.5 time recall...) on mirage you got no drawback from a core mesmer. Just take a look. How many core mesmers are on pvp/wvw/pve? and compare them with how many mirages are out there. Thats a fact... not an opinion...

Dodge while stunned is the only thing positive about MC.Your statement about the distance traveled is not true. From this patch on distance traveled even forward will be less than a normal dodge and it gets even worse if you have chill or cripple on you. Dodge is also used to create or close gaps, which mirage sucks at.As for damage, heal and defensive boons while dodging you can find them on other professions, even better than mirage ones while lower tier, for example, companions defense 2sec prot on dodge - minor master, while nomads is 1,5sec - Master Major. Adding to this mirage is one of the professions with least vigor uptime on game, even with 3 whole traits dedicated to vigor it still stands above half of the professions with 1 or 2 vigor traits. Now still adding to this you need to burn your dodges in order to keep pressure going, otherwise the damage will be on the low side.

Chrono is getting gutted, no other profession gave up as much as chrono in this trade-offs, and what will chrono win, CS and a bunch of name changed still the same shatters.

The reason there aren't any core mesmers is simple and no amount of trade-offs will change it, core mesmer is unviable trash.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Ok... but what happens if you choose a mirage? there is a drawback. Just get a worse dodge, 1/3 of the attack covered by dodge, dodge while stun... a bunch of worse less traits to get into IH, all the shatters and the mesmer also acting as an illusion on shatter.

Just a little FTFY.

There is no drawback... Dont play the clueless guy.

A dodge that covers less distance than a regular dodge.Dodge while attacking is dead since the 0.25sec nerf, every ambush is cast between half and 2/3 outside mirage cloak.Nice try tho.

I don't know how much you played chrono, core or mirage, I assume you played them a lot when you do this statments, the question is. Ask yourself what are you playing actually? Even with this "drawbacks" you say, im pretty sure you keep playing mirage.The thing is that mirage line makes you being the only one able to dodge no matter what happens. That means, you cant be locked down for a big dps or burst, you can do it at the same time the opponent attacks, so you hit him, but he can't hit you (and is not a block that you can ignore with some skills, is invulnerable), also, the distance of the dodge, if you run forward, is not even noticable, but, on the other side, you can stay still dodging, what is also uniq and pretty useful sometimes. Not only that, that trait gives you condi damage buff, but also, healing on every dodge, and protection after that dodge and not happy with that you also your illusions spaming condis at the same rate than you, then comes the shatter, that got the same effect as the core mesmer.Just think, where is the drawback? No other line is being able to give you condi time reduction, good heal every dodge, condi damage bonus, illusion damage, defensive boons (regen, prot, vigor...) and, also, a dodge that permits you to control the direction easily, or stand still, that permits you attacking while you do it (so you dont need skill on dodge / counter attack timing), and even if you get stuned, or inmobilized, you still being able to dodge anything...Im not asking for a nerf, just saying that the idea of choosing and spec must have its drawbacks is pretty good, but while on chrono you kill distorision... yes 1-4 secs invulneravility that you were able to recast with another shatter, or sigil of illusions like in mirage or core... and loosing the mesmer shater on itself... AND loosing the posibility of use a shatter without clones (1 second of invul/dist/condi removed/heal/ or 1.5 time recall...) on mirage you got no drawback from a core mesmer. Just take a look. How many core mesmers are on pvp/wvw/pve? and compare them with how many mirages are out there. Thats a fact... not an opinion...

Dodge while stunned is the only thing positive about MC.Your statement about the distance traveled is not true. From this patch on distance traveled
even forward
will be less than a normal dodge and it gets even worse if you have chill or cripple on you. Dodge is also used to create or close gaps, which mirage sucks at.As for damage, heal and defensive boons while dodging you can find them on other professions, even better than mirage ones while lower tier, for example, companions defense 2sec prot on dodge - minor master, while nomads is 1,5sec - Master Major. Adding to this mirage is one of the professions with least vigor uptime on game, even with 3 whole traits dedicated to vigor it still stands above half of the professions with 1 or 2 vigor traits. Now still adding to this you need to burn your dodges in order to keep pressure going, otherwise the damage will be on the low side.

Chrono is getting gutted, no other profession gave up as much as chrono in this trade-offs, and what will chrono win, CS and a bunch of name changed still the same shatters.

The reason there aren't any core mesmers is simple and no amount of trade-offs will change it, core mesmer is unviable trash.

You didnt understand anything. I will stop arguing right now cause im not comparing "professiones or classes". As said, inside mesmer specs mirage is the king, and as you said, core mesmer o r chrono maybe trash, the only way to not be "trash" with mesmer is being a mirage. So... as said on beggining, on my first threat is that anet said that all specs will have a drawback when you choose them, so, choosing a chrono has a clear drawback now in front of core mesmer, but, trying to convince ANYONE that the mirage dodge is worst than the core mesmer dodge is ... hillarous... is not only that, as you said, a mesmer without mirage spec is "trash". So that is my point, why being a core mesmer, or chrono got it clear drawbacks while being a a mirage dont.

You can find the same situation in other classes, this is not a discussion about "being op up or classe blanace", as said, is a discusion about anet statement aand what they do. Try to read and think before you answer and stop this "autopilot" discussion for the pvp-crying lobby.

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@TidalTrident.4013 said:so... with detection pulse gone, how are we gonna reveal people in GvGs and scrims, you want us to try and reveal people with hammer 3 + gaze of darkness when guards give high duration aegis? This is a silly change, the start of GvGs are gonna be so annoying nowEdit: after thinking about it, i guess phase traversal with hammer 3 + gaze of darkness could work.

Throw target painter or place target painter trap and move backwards?

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@Street Peddler.2638 said:mallyx sits in stagnation hell for years, gets updated, suddenly its the most important legend ever that everyone used. always the same story.Because it was borderline fine as it contributed to high condi dps in raids. Now with these changes it nerfs their damage against a complex rotation. All while Mirage wasn’t touched.

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@judgebeo.3976 said:

Ok... but what happens if you choose a mirage? there is a drawback. Just get a worse dodge, 1/3 of the attack covered by dodge, dodge while stun... a bunch of worse less traits to get into IH, all the shatters and the mesmer also acting as an illusion on shatter.

Just a little FTFY.

There is no drawback... Dont play the clueless guy.

A dodge that covers less distance than a regular dodge.Dodge while attacking is dead since the 0.25sec nerf, every ambush is cast between half and 2/3 outside mirage cloak.Nice try tho.

I don't know how much you played chrono, core or mirage, I assume you played them a lot when you do this statments, the question is. Ask yourself what are you playing actually? Even with this "drawbacks" you say, im pretty sure you keep playing mirage.The thing is that mirage line makes you being the only one able to dodge no matter what happens. That means, you cant be locked down for a big dps or burst, you can do it at the same time the opponent attacks, so you hit him, but he can't hit you (and is not a block that you can ignore with some skills, is invulnerable), also, the distance of the dodge, if you run forward, is not even noticable, but, on the other side, you can stay still dodging, what is also uniq and pretty useful sometimes. Not only that, that trait gives you condi damage buff, but also, healing on every dodge, and protection after that dodge and not happy with that you also your illusions spaming condis at the same rate than you, then comes the shatter, that got the same effect as the core mesmer.Just think, where is the drawback? No other line is being able to give you condi time reduction, good heal every dodge, condi damage bonus, illusion damage, defensive boons (regen, prot, vigor...) and, also, a dodge that permits you to control the direction easily, or stand still, that permits you attacking while you do it (so you dont need skill on dodge / counter attack timing), and even if you get stuned, or inmobilized, you still being able to dodge anything...Im not asking for a nerf, just saying that the idea of choosing and spec must have its drawbacks is pretty good, but while on chrono you kill distorision... yes 1-4 secs invulneravility that you were able to recast with another shatter, or sigil of illusions like in mirage or core... and loosing the mesmer shater on itself... AND loosing the posibility of use a shatter without clones (1 second of invul/dist/condi removed/heal/ or 1.5 time recall...) on mirage you got no drawback from a core mesmer. Just take a look. How many core mesmers are on pvp/wvw/pve? and compare them with how many mirages are out there. Thats a fact... not an opinion...

Dodge while stunned is the only thing positive about MC.Your statement about the distance traveled is not true. From this patch on distance traveled
even forward
will be less than a normal dodge and it gets even worse if you have chill or cripple on you. Dodge is also used to create or close gaps, which mirage sucks at.As for damage, heal and defensive boons while dodging you can find them on other professions, even better than mirage ones while lower tier, for example, companions defense 2sec prot on dodge - minor master, while nomads is 1,5sec - Master Major. Adding to this mirage is one of the professions with least vigor uptime on game, even with 3 whole traits dedicated to vigor it still stands above half of the professions with 1 or 2 vigor traits. Now still adding to this you need to burn your dodges in order to keep pressure going, otherwise the damage will be on the low side.

Chrono is getting gutted, no other profession gave up as much as chrono in this trade-offs, and what will chrono win, CS and a bunch of name changed still the same shatters.

The reason there aren't any core mesmers is simple and no amount of trade-offs will change it, core mesmer is unviable trash.

You didnt understand anything. I will stop arguing right now cause im not comparing "professiones or classes". As said, inside mesmer specs mirage is the king, and as you said, core mesmer o r chrono maybe trash, the only way to not be "trash" with mesmer is being a mirage. So... as said on beggining, on my first threat is that anet said that all specs will have a drawback when you choose them, so, choosing a chrono has a clear drawback now in front of core mesmer, but, trying to convince ANYONE that the mirage dodge is worst than the core mesmer dodge is ... hillarous... is not only that, as you said, a mesmer without mirage spec is "trash". So that is my point, why being a core mesmer, or chrono got it clear drawbacks while being a a mirage dont.

You can find the same situation in other classes, this is not a discussion about "being op up or classe blanace", as said, is a discusion about anet statement aand what they do. Try to read and think before you answer and stop this "autopilot" discussion for the pvp-crying lobby.

Chrono without IP is even worse than core mesmer, so there you go the tradeoffs.Mirage dodge is trash period. Did you got in the mid of AoE? Good luck getting out because you won't.Attack while dodging no longer exists.The only thing worth MC is the dodge while stunned, apart from that is trash.Oh and you've to spec an entire awful traitline just to get IH because mirage without IH is now pitiful.

ANerf statement is a joke on its own. How come some professions get 1 or even half something taken away to get elite and others get 2 taken away including a mechanic that's essential to play since 2012.Chrono trade-off makes 0 sense. Distortion on CS has 0 value, you get back to the same HP that you were before, so who the kitten cares to avoid damage? IP removal speaks for itself for anyone that has a tiny bit of mesmer experience.Meanwhile daredevil for example got 600 range taken away from steal in trade of an unblockable, extra dodge and dodge mechanics.

So why can't mirage trade-off be: here take this dodge that has reduce traveling distance?

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Ok... but what happens if you choose a mirage? there is a drawback. Just get a worse dodge, 1/3 of the attack covered by dodge, dodge while stun... a bunch of worse less traits to get into IH, all the shatters and the mesmer also acting as an illusion on shatter.

Just a little FTFY.

There is no drawback... Dont play the clueless guy.

A dodge that covers less distance than a regular dodge.Dodge while attacking is dead since the 0.25sec nerf, every ambush is cast between half and 2/3 outside mirage cloak.Nice try tho.

I don't know how much you played chrono, core or mirage, I assume you played them a lot when you do this statments, the question is. Ask yourself what are you playing actually? Even with this "drawbacks" you say, im pretty sure you keep playing mirage.The thing is that mirage line makes you being the only one able to dodge no matter what happens. That means, you cant be locked down for a big dps or burst, you can do it at the same time the opponent attacks, so you hit him, but he can't hit you (and is not a block that you can ignore with some skills, is invulnerable), also, the distance of the dodge, if you run forward, is not even noticable, but, on the other side, you can stay still dodging, what is also uniq and pretty useful sometimes. Not only that, that trait gives you condi damage buff, but also, healing on every dodge, and protection after that dodge and not happy with that you also your illusions spaming condis at the same rate than you, then comes the shatter, that got the same effect as the core mesmer.Just think, where is the drawback? No other line is being able to give you condi time reduction, good heal every dodge, condi damage bonus, illusion damage, defensive boons (regen, prot, vigor...) and, also, a dodge that permits you to control the direction easily, or stand still, that permits you attacking while you do it (so you dont need skill on dodge / counter attack timing), and even if you get stuned, or inmobilized, you still being able to dodge anything...Im not asking for a nerf, just saying that the idea of choosing and spec must have its drawbacks is pretty good, but while on chrono you kill distorision... yes 1-4 secs invulneravility that you were able to recast with another shatter, or sigil of illusions like in mirage or core... and loosing the mesmer shater on itself... AND loosing the posibility of use a shatter without clones (1 second of invul/dist/condi removed/heal/ or 1.5 time recall...) on mirage you got no drawback from a core mesmer. Just take a look. How many core mesmers are on pvp/wvw/pve? and compare them with how many mirages are out there. Thats a fact... not an opinion...

Dodge while stunned is the only thing positive about MC.Your statement about the distance traveled is not true. From this patch on distance traveled
even forward
will be less than a normal dodge and it gets even worse if you have chill or cripple on you. Dodge is also used to create or close gaps, which mirage sucks at.As for damage, heal and defensive boons while dodging you can find them on other professions, even better than mirage ones while lower tier, for example, companions defense 2sec prot on dodge - minor master, while nomads is 1,5sec - Master Major. Adding to this mirage is one of the professions with least vigor uptime on game, even with 3 whole traits dedicated to vigor it still stands above half of the professions with 1 or 2 vigor traits. Now still adding to this you need to burn your dodges in order to keep pressure going, otherwise the damage will be on the low side.

Chrono is getting gutted, no other profession gave up as much as chrono in this trade-offs, and what will chrono win, CS and a bunch of name changed still the same shatters.

The reason there aren't any core mesmers is simple and no amount of trade-offs will change it, core mesmer is unviable trash.

You didnt understand anything. I will stop arguing right now cause im not comparing "professiones or classes". As said, inside mesmer specs mirage is the king, and as you said, core mesmer o r chrono maybe trash, the only way to not be "trash" with mesmer is being a mirage. So... as said on beggining, on my first threat is that anet said that all specs will have a drawback when you choose them, so, choosing a chrono has a clear drawback now in front of core mesmer, but, trying to convince ANYONE that the mirage dodge is worst than the core mesmer dodge is ... hillarous... is not only that, as you said, a mesmer without mirage spec is "trash". So that is my point, why being a core mesmer, or chrono got it clear drawbacks while being a a mirage dont.

You can find the same situation in other classes, this is not a discussion about "being op up or classe blanace", as said, is a discusion about anet statement aand what they do. Try to read and think before you answer and stop this "autopilot" discussion for the pvp-crying lobby.

Mirage dodge is trash period. Did you got in the mid of AoE? Good luck getting out because you won't.Attack while dodging no longer exists.The only thing worth MC is the dodge while stunned, apart from that is trash.Oh and you've to spec an entire awful traitline just to get IH because mirage without IH is now pitiful.

So why can't mirage trade-off be: here take this dodge that has reduce traveling distance?

If I could take Mirage Cloak instead of regular dodge I would do so on virtually everything, no question.It's superior in almost every single way.

The ability not to have to move at all while dodging, being able to dodge while immobilized etc., being able to reposition more precisely while evading seems all to be incredibly underrated.The distance covered with the increased speed is still more than enough to get out of any AoE a normal dodge would get you out of before the next tick after the one you Evade anyway.

Suggesting Mirage Cloak is a negative tradeoff is downright ridiculous when it's one of the most powerful tools of Mirage.

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For me Scrapper is cool, I can't moan about it, just tried it out, I'm spamming Superspeed/swithness/stability and always have +15% damage, also have many quickness so +200 power while under the effect. I wandered around in southsun cove, never passed under 3/4 of my health, having 25 might, fury, quickness, vigor and now even more superspeed, stability and sometimes protection, have 3200 power, 3200 armor. OhMyGerd my engie from 2012 is now back, the exact same stats! But as scrapper. Function gyro is cool, i'm faster than sonic with that superspeed at the end of gyros use.->Speed of Synergy: This new trait causes all leap finishers to give superspeed to the scrapper, and all blast finishers give superspeed in an area around you.->Mass Momentum: This trait has been moved to the adept tier. It no longer grants power based on toughness. Instead it causes your function gyro to grant stability in an area when cast in addition to causing stability to pulse might.->Object in Motion: This new trait increases outgoing damage by 5% if you have swiftness, superspeed, or stability. Each boon increases the bonus damage by 5%, up to a maximum of 15% if you have all three.->Applied Force: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also grants +200 power while you have quickness. It now grants quickness when at or above 10 stacks of might rather than only when above 10 stacks. Fixed various bugs that could cause inconsistent trigger behavior.

Now about holosmith well, the fact that the fskills can't be used on overheat is anoying but the damage from leap is increased so it's more a buff, I mean, I never reach the overheat, I always stop 1 millimeter before full bar. I don't feel like it has lost a lot of damage/dps.->Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit: This trait now increases the bonus damage maximum from Laser's Edge by 50% in addition to its previous effects.->Laser's Edge: The bonus damage from this trait is now calculated dynamically based on the amount of heat you have rather than activating after passing a specific heat threshold. Because of this change, the effect icon will no longer be displayed. Bonus damage is now multiplicative instead of additive.

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This new trend of traits that debuffs -300 attribute points to either vitality or toughness on tanks is ridicolous! Atleast on berserker its avoidable, but costs you another trait to fix the debuff (symptom of running out of good ideas?). Nice to see scrapper is no longer a god tank, but that -300 debuff is like breaking the class completely.

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I can understand they try change F skills on chrono but i dont understand why they remove the shatter without clones on chrono cause many trait line are useless now because of that if you absolutely need clones to shatter, also chrono was use for buffing people but NONE of the F1-2-3-4 give anything about chronomancy (quickness or alacrity) to closer allies it only apply on yourself how that absolutely USELESS. You should redo your balance team.

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wow Anet, thanx for completely destroying condi thief ... it wasn't even close to a meta in pvp or wvw and yet you had to completely run it further into the ground... Won't be seeing me in wvw anymore or promoting gw2 or purchasing anything.. This is not balancing.. this is screwing with the foundations of a game.. Are you bought by Jagex or what? sorry but i'm mad as hell.. Over my 6 years of play time this has been mostly my main and most loved build..... And you run it into the ground just like that. I think that's the moment where you lost your connection to your community, at least with me.

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@"ruwani.8624" said:the druid nerf tho... thanks? i guess? not like im a druid main or anything >_>Last time when they changed druid, I stopped playing the game for few months. Reason was because everytime I bring a druid to fractal cm, I was questioned and asked if I can swap, or the party would take forever to fill (not that we couldn't beat cm with druid, but the pug just flat out reluctant to use it), so I was fed up and took a long break. I came back eventually because my friend was playing so I picked up a new class so I can keep him company.

As I was reading this patch I thought they'd buff the druid a bit because more and more people has stopped using druid in fractal (at least the guilds I'm in are), but when I read the patch note about "Ancestral Grace" I was like... since when that skill needed tweak??? Nvm, I already sent her to the flax farm weeks ago, none of my concern anymore, moving on...

I'm also absolutely speechless about "Impossible Odds" for Revenant:"Impossible Odds: Instead of pulsing superspeed, this skill now increases your movement speed by 50%. Reduced damage of the secondary strike by 19% in PvP only."Please tell me the 1st half of the changes doesn't apply to PVE, it must be April's fool.

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