RIP chrono — Guild Wars 2 Forums

RIP chrono

Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 16, 2019 in Mesmer

When I thought anet couldn't surprise me more, here they come with shatters that can only be activated when you have illusions up. No on-demand shatters to cleanse, heal, interrupt, remove boons, reflect or CS if you have 0 clones.

Worst mechanic rework ever, the clunkiness is astonishing...

<13

Comments

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    1) About IP, we live without it during 3 years, even in shatter builds. (even if people didn't agree with me that's basically what I play 50% of my time in WvW.).
    2) There seems to be a good condi potential on condi chrono. I will test it.
    3) They should remove the anti-contributing on F4 now ...

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    1) About IP, we live without it during 3 years, even in shatter builds. (even if people didn't agree with me that's basically what I play 50% of my time in WvW.).

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Persona

    In the game since launch. Used in pretty much almost all shatter builds since launch. Not sure what you are refering to. Yes, it was baseline for only the last 3 years. That is not the same as it not existing. IP was in game and was one of the core essential traits on almost all builds. The trait was literally made baseline BECAUSE it was so essential to the class, that was even the reasoning for making it baseline back then.

    Almost all build = kikoo duelist on EB and some PvP player (btw mesmer was farmed by thieves at that times in PvP.)
    So no very few builds used IP before they oriented mesmer gameplay to shatter only.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Let it die and be done with....

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    I am so freaking glad I switched to Mirage like month ago... I am sooo glad.
    To all who main/ed chrono - I send you my condolences...

    Oh don't you worry, mirage is already on the guillotine's line.

    Inb4 we're removing all shatters from mirage because we want you to use clones in ambushes, oh and you still have to spec IH to do so.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    I am so freaking glad I switched to Mirage like month ago... I am sooo glad.
    To all who main/ed chrono - I send you my condolences...

    Oh don't you worry, mirage is already on the guillotine's line.

    Inb4 we're removing all shatters from mirage because we want you to use clones in ambushes, oh and you still have to spec IH to do so.

    heh, reminds me of dialogues of the carmelites opera. nvm xD

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Hectorim Sears.1479Hectorim Sears.1479 Member ✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Nepster.4275 said:
    This happens when you let people who are not even playing to do the balance patches.

    Those chrono changes (not only today, but today they ruined it finally) show how out of touch balance team is... even freaking scrapper got some improvements, even this piece of junk, and chrono is just MONUMENTALLY RUINED. Holy kitten...

    Most of the Scrapper rework is net nerf. That's not counting the -300 Vitality.

    @CharJC.8365 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    "Dry" Shattering is important to some, and in some situations absolutely necessary. Take this for example, pre nerf, you could distort off yourself, so say you have a ranged class on you "ie Ranger", and your reflect is on cool down, and of course, ANET loves their rangers so you know Longbow hits way further then tool tip. What do? Pre Nerf, you could distort, buy time, get cover, heal, kite, etc. But now that it is solely dependent on clones, guess who's range wins? Say you could get a clone off, those clones die at stubbing a toe. This makes us more or less sitting ducks unless we pull some clones off, time it, shatter it, and hope that did the job cause the second we shatter them, we need to repeat that that entire PROCESS to even get some sort of cover/defense/attack again since it is now 100% tied to only shattering. In short, killed the class, er, spec.

    That's my point - F4 with no clones is 1 sec of evasion. If you're against a LB Ranger with no CDs left aside from F4, doesn't that mean that you're dead anyway?

  • Kiza.5630Kiza.5630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    I used it all the time in open world. Double time warp for no reason, double gravity well into approaching mob hordes. I played a round Dragonfall and tbh is was annoying. Clones die fast in monster packs or they despawn instantly when the zerg murders the enemies they are attached to. If you want to use shatters at all might as well just smash the F keys as fast as you can to get at least any use out of them.

    I liked the longer csplit duration and alac/quickness from the shatters for purely selfish reasons. But ugh, this plays not very well now.

  • CharJC.8365CharJC.8365 Member ✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:

    That's my point - F4 with no clones is 1 sec of evasion. If you're against a LB Ranger with no CDs left aside from F4, doesn't that mean that you're dead anyway?

    That 1 second is the difference between a good dodge and a distort or eating a rapid fire.

    But hey, this is Anet, and Im almost certain the balance team don't even play the game, or least seems like they don't. These changes/nerfs to classes/specs is more just "to do something" rather then "do something productive". That's all I'm going to say on it.

  • Hectorim Sears.1479Hectorim Sears.1479 Member ✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Kiza.5630 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    I used it all the time in open world. Double time warp for no reason, double gravity well into approaching mob hordes. I played a round Dragonfall and tbh is was annoying. Clones die fast in monster packs or they despawn instantly when the zerg murders the enemies they are attached to. If you want to use shatters at all might as well just smash the F keys as fast as you can to get at least any use out of them.

    I liked the longer csplit duration and alac/quickness from the shatters for purely selfish reasons. But ugh, this plays not very well now.

    I understand dry shattering an F5, it was pretty much a thing ever since this e-spec was introduced, and that nerf I understand - no more double-casting on demand is a giant nerf (truth be told double-casting an Elite is pretty OP...), but weren't other F abilities pretty niche when cast like that?

    On the other note - if things haven't changed, the F abilities light up before the clone actually shows, which would make Staff 2, Sword 3, Scepter and clone-on-dodge more important now as fast ways to enable shatters, right?

  • Kiza.5630Kiza.5630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:

    , but weren't other F abilities pretty niche when cast like that?

    1 sec distort to avoid a single timed attack. Remove condi out of combat when traited (that super annoying 15 sec remaining cripple), on demand stability with otherwise useless shatters for your build when traited (and other useful boons for you). A bit of alacrity and when traited quickness from them. Quite a few things I used them for that were just interesting/fun/nice to have.

  • Hectorim Sears.1479Hectorim Sears.1479 Member ✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @Kiza.5630 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:

    , but weren't other F abilities pretty niche when cast like that?

    1 sec distort to avoid a single timed attack. Remove condi out of combat when traited (that super annoying 15 sec remaining cripple), on demand stability with otherwise useless shatters for your build when traited (and other useful boons for you). A bit of alacrity and when traited quickness from them. Quite a few things I used them for that were just interesting/fun/nice to have.

    When you put it like that, I guess it was quite useful, if not only for quality of life and de-clunking (I didn't know shatter cleanse worked out of combat).

    And as you mention "useless" shatters... Reminds me why I stopped playing the profession in the first place - it just never meshed well with itself, ever. You either used clones OR phantasms, either used shatters OR did not at all, and if you did, only half of them were somewhat useful for your build. I'm still sad about that. After playing with Mesmer for a few days after launch, I created an Engineer, then I unlocked Grenades and the Flamethrower and never looked back.

    Sigh, well, thanks for being constructive and nice. Most Mesmers are so salty right now they are probably looking for a head to chew off.

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:

    @Kiza.5630 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    I used it all the time in open world. Double time warp for no reason, double gravity well into approaching mob hordes. I played a round Dragonfall and tbh is was annoying. Clones die fast in monster packs or they despawn instantly when the zerg murders the enemies they are attached to. If you want to use shatters at all might as well just smash the F keys as fast as you can to get at least any use out of them.

    I liked the longer csplit duration and alac/quickness from the shatters for purely selfish reasons. But ugh, this plays not very well now.

    I understand dry shattering an F5, it was pretty much a thing ever since this e-spec was introduced, and that nerf I understand - no more double-casting on demand is a giant nerf (truth be told double-casting an Elite is pretty OP...), but weren't other F abilities pretty niche when cast like that?

    On the other note - if things haven't changed, the F abilities light up before the clone actually shows, which would make Staff 2, Sword 3, Scepter and clone-on-dodge more important now as fast ways to enable shatters, right?

    More realistically it highlights just how deficient our clone generation mechanics are. Staff 2 is decent, but staff itself is awful in most areas of the game. Sword 3 requires you to be very close to the enemy and has a cast time, so it's useless for any kind of fast reaction. Scepter auto is slow and needs 3 autoattacks to make a clone, so that's totally useless. Scepter 2 is great...but not for clone generation. You can block the attack, but by the time you get your clones the attack is over.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:

    @Kiza.5630 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    I used it all the time in open world. Double time warp for no reason, double gravity well into approaching mob hordes. I played a round Dragonfall and tbh is was annoying. Clones die fast in monster packs or they despawn instantly when the zerg murders the enemies they are attached to. If you want to use shatters at all might as well just smash the F keys as fast as you can to get at least any use out of them.

    I liked the longer csplit duration and alac/quickness from the shatters for purely selfish reasons. But ugh, this plays not very well now.

    I understand dry shattering an F5, it was pretty much a thing ever since this e-spec was introduced, and that nerf I understand - no more double-casting on demand is a giant nerf (truth be told double-casting an Elite is pretty OP...), but weren't other F abilities pretty niche when cast like that?

    On the other note - if things haven't changed, the F abilities light up before the clone actually shows, which would make Staff 2, Sword 3, Scepter and clone-on-dodge more important now as fast ways to enable shatters, right?

    More realistically it highlights just how deficient our clone generation mechanics are. Staff 2 is decent, but staff itself is awful in most areas of the game. Sword 3 requires you to be very close to the enemy and has a cast time, so it's useless for any kind of fast reaction. Scepter auto is slow and needs 3 autoattacks to make a clone, so that's totally useless. Scepter 2 is great...but not for clone generation. You can block the attack, but by the time you get your clones the attack is over.

    I think a range increase on Sword 3 would solve my biggest gripe with it. As for Scepter, I will always love it, even if it is considered a redhead stepchild of Mesmer weapon family. You can use auto-attack chain outside of combat! That has to count for something. I always hated Staff for having a power-oriented Phantasm on a condi-predominant weapon... Chaos Storm should have been a skill for Scepter mumble.

  • SlimChance.6593SlimChance.6593 Member ✭✭✭

    I "get" why they made the the shatter and IP changes to Chronomancer. Chrono has access to quickness and alacrity..thus clone generating skills should come sooner than Mirage or Mesmer. But it still is a big hit going back before IP.

    But in doing so, they should also consider adjusting more of the Chrono traits to help out with the adjustment. Like reverting Illusionary Reversion back to only requiring 2 clones, removing/reducing the duration penalty to Improved Alactrity, and/or redoing some the changes to shield. (set it back to how it worked originally.. its so clunky now.)

    Maybe have a trait that if a clone pass thru a well, it duplicates.. or whatever... A lot of base Mesmer nerfs that happened because of Chrono should be re-looked at. (if they ever get Mirage settled out.)

    Are the other professions going to have similar tradeoffs on their elites???

  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    On the PVE side, my biggest gripe is that I can't pre-stack boons nearly as well at the mistlock singularities. Before I would go:

    Continuum Split
    Tides of Time
    Alacrity Well (split ends)
    mimic
    Alacrity Well
    Quickness Well
    Alacrity Well
    Singularity
    Continuum Split
    Tides of Time
    Alacrity Well (split ends)
    Alacrity Well
    Quickness Well
    Swap mimic to SoI then use SoI.

    Doing this, I could stack up around 40 seconds of alacrity on a group before a boss. It sounds excessive, but it was quite necessary, as standing in wells is harder in fractals than it is anywhere else. Now, with no continuum splits, I'm losing x2 tides and x2 wells.

    I'm glad I finished crafting a fractal ready alacrigade before this update.

    After looking at this rotation, maybe Anet's idea is to swat unintended mechanics (skill-swapping after CS, massive amount of pre-emptive Alacrity) while disguising it as a balance pass...

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    I was one of those who did not use IP before. Nut I had the glamour trait, perplex runes, condi set and a great chance in wvw zerg fights.

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @alain.1659 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    I was one of those who did not use IP before. Nut I had the glamour trait, perplex runes, condi set and a great chance in wvw zerg fights.

    That build was removed in spring of 2013.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    @SloRules.3560 said:

    @alain.1659 said:

    @Hectorim Sears.1479 said:
    Is "dry" shattering so important? Seriously, reading all of the above comments, I'm kind of amazed. Back in vanilla, many builds did not use Illusionary Persona at all...

    I was one of those who did not use IP before. Nut I had the glamour trait, perplex runes, condi set and a great chance in wvw zerg fights.

    That build was removed in spring of 2013.

    Yes. And that was the time I stopped playing mes in zergs until IP baseline :)

    Edit: not that it is relevant but wasnt it removed like in 2015?

  • VDAC.2137VDAC.2137 Member ✭✭✭

    Wow. I thought chrono had already been nerfed too much, but this... I don’t see how this was considered at all a good idea. As far as I can see, this has ruined the fun and utility of chrono in any game mode. Another spec I will not be playing any more. :(

    RIP chrono :skull:

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