why does anet hate core guard & DH? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

why does anet hate core guard & DH?

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  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Adamixos.6785 said:
    NGL, I have been waiting for that "Dragonhunter Rework" announcement since I got back into the game earlier this year. Somewhere deep down inside, I know that it will never happen, but I am a hopeless hopeful.

    One can dream, right?

    There was a discussion in this regard in another guardian form. The problem that DH remake faces, is unlike most things that have been remade in the past, DH is top tier in PvE. And not only in raids, but across the board. However, it is basically damage multiplyers and AOE from traps against helpless mobs. That does not translate to success in PvP.

    The following traits need rework or upgrade:
    Dulled Senses, useless everywhere. There are several other sources of vulnerability. This is 1 stack (lol..) and vulnerability is not reliable in PvP.
    Hunter's Determination, CD too long in PvP (75 sec) for it to be reliable. Also, passive game play. Not a good design.
    Bulwark, I find it the best option in PvP, but with the significant amount of unblocakble kitten in the game right now, SoC overall is not that reliable.
    Hunter's fortification, this was okay when DH was fresh. Now it is kinda meh. Maybe increase damage reduction to 15%?
    Heavy light, regardless of deflection shot, this should provide quickness instead of stability.

    LB obliviously needs major rework.

    Traps, Light's Judgment should have like 20 sec CD. 30 sec for reveal and vulnerability? This trap was never viable.

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    @Adamixos.6785 said:
    NGL, I have been waiting for that "Dragonhunter Rework" announcement since I got back into the game earlier this year. Somewhere deep down inside, I know that it will never happen, but I am a hopeless hopeful.

    One can dream, right?

    Yes, we are all dreaming and hoping, but we know it won't happen at this rate.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I hate to do this but...is the OP serious?...how is it possible to describe dh/core guard as bad?..if there is one class which is loved by anet, that would be guardian
    The class is meta everywhere, simple to pick up, fun to use and good matchup scaling...DH is simply a joy to use...I have 8k hours on ele, 3k on ranger and recently jumped on guardian because I am kitten tired of kitten balance/frustration and unfun gameplay .

    Been playing dh from pvp to wvw ( tempest gave me the blues playing support for 2 years..I simply hate healer support and won't be touching fb unless I have to ) and I just love it , got : pulsing reveal/burning - teleports - heal/condi burst - blocks for days - good dmg and I can go trap burst with moderate success ...simply a joy to use dh, simple and effective..not afraid of 1v1 anybody as I can be a challenge for anybody

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭
    edited July 7, 2019

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:

    @Adamixos.6785 said:
    NGL, I have been waiting for that "Dragonhunter Rework" announcement since I got back into the game earlier this year. Somewhere deep down inside, I know that it will never happen, but I am a hopeless hopeful.

    One can dream, right?

    Yes, we are all dreaming and hoping, but we know it won't happen at this rate.

    Of course it will happen, they're a company and professional development doesn't act biased.

    Rn guardian is the best pve class and has meta build in any game mode. They Go one by one, can't do all at once and DH is far from needing a rework asap.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I hate to do this but...is the OP serious?...how is it possible to describe dh/core guard as bad?..if there is one class which is loved by anet, that would be guardian
    The class is meta everywhere, simple to pick up, fun to use and good matchup scaling...DH is simply a joy to use...I have 8k hours on ele, 3k on ranger and recently jumped on guardian because I am kitten tired of kitten balance/frustration and unfun gameplay .

    Been playing dh from pvp to wvw ( tempest gave me the blues playing support for 2 years..I simply hate healer support and won't be touching fb unless I have to ) and I just love it , got : pulsing reveal/burning - teleports - heal/condi burst - blocks for days - good dmg and I can go trap burst with moderate success ...simply a joy to use dh, simple and effective..not afraid of 1v1 anybody as I can be a challenge for anybody

    DH is bad. It has good sustainability and not bad solo but:

    1) lacks damage to kill high sustain targets.
    2) too slow to roam in sPvP.
    3) not effective in team fights.
    4) highly susceptible to ranged damage.
    5) performs poorly against enemies with high mobility.

    FYI, in sPvP never ever use the reveal trap. Complete waste of a utility slot. Also, never play trap burst, unless your aim is to compete in gold 1.

    Core guardian has difficulty issues. It has much better mobility and damage, but it is relatively easy to control and kite. Also, not good solo.

    Overall, if your aim is to be competitive, neither build is viable beyond 1600.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I hate to do this but...is the OP serious?...how is it possible to describe dh/core guard as bad?..if there is one class which is loved by anet, that would be guardian
    The class is meta everywhere, simple to pick up, fun to use and good matchup scaling...DH is simply a joy to use...I have 8k hours on ele, 3k on ranger and recently jumped on guardian because I am kitten tired of kitten balance/frustration and unfun gameplay .

    Been playing dh from pvp to wvw ( tempest gave me the blues playing support for 2 years..I simply hate healer support and won't be touching fb unless I have to ) and I just love it , got : pulsing reveal/burning - teleports - heal/condi burst - blocks for days - good dmg and I can go trap burst with moderate success ...simply a joy to use dh, simple and effective..not afraid of 1v1 anybody as I can be a challenge for anybody

    DH is bad. It has good sustainability and not bad solo but:

    1) lacks damage to kill high sustain targets.
    2) too slow to roam in sPvP.
    3) not effective in team fights.
    4) highly susceptible to ranged damage.
    5) performs poorly against enemies with high mobility.

    FYI, in sPvP never ever use the reveal trap. Complete waste of a utility slot. Also, never play trap burst, unless your aim is to compete in gold 1.

    Core guardian has difficulty issues. It has much better mobility and damage, but it is relatively easy to control and kite. Also, not good solo.

    Overall, if your aim is to be competitive, neither build is viable beyond 1600.

    1) I have more than enough dmg to kill anything but builds that require a +1, in which case I won't waste time fightning them unless it's necessary
    2) "Soaring devastation" offers 25% movement speed, that's all I require if you want more...play thief or GS ranger
    3) I adapt to enemy composition, high burst aoe vs mesmer/necro comps and sustain bruiser vs holo/war etc comps..I do fine and I am having fun
    4) Shield and LoS kiting is all I need in most cases...if I get bursted down by SB sic'em burst..well it happens as I wasn't paying attention
    5) Wtih 2 teleports and a pull, I perform fine vs high mobility targets
    6)Never used reveal trap ?! Spear of Justice is a great reveal tool when used at right time to stop a stealth class from retreating or prepare for a burst
    7)I only ever used core guard when hammer radiance burst was still a gimmick
    8)They are DH in legendary division

    I suggest you to play things like ele before complaining about dh

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I hate to do this but...is the OP serious?...how is it possible to describe dh/core guard as bad?..if there is one class which is loved by anet, that would be guardian
    The class is meta everywhere, simple to pick up, fun to use and good matchup scaling...DH is simply a joy to use...I have 8k hours on ele, 3k on ranger and recently jumped on guardian because I am kitten tired of kitten balance/frustration and unfun gameplay .

    Been playing dh from pvp to wvw ( tempest gave me the blues playing support for 2 years..I simply hate healer support and won't be touching fb unless I have to ) and I just love it , got : pulsing reveal/burning - teleports - heal/condi burst - blocks for days - good dmg and I can go trap burst with moderate success ...simply a joy to use dh, simple and effective..not afraid of 1v1 anybody as I can be a challenge for anybody

    DH is bad. It has good sustainability and not bad solo but:

    1) lacks damage to kill high sustain targets.
    2) too slow to roam in sPvP.
    3) not effective in team fights.
    4) highly susceptible to ranged damage.
    5) performs poorly against enemies with high mobility.

    FYI, in sPvP never ever use the reveal trap. Complete waste of a utility slot. Also, never play trap burst, unless your aim is to compete in gold 1.

    Core guardian has difficulty issues. It has much better mobility and damage, but it is relatively easy to control and kite. Also, not good solo.

    Overall, if your aim is to be competitive, neither build is viable beyond 1600.

    1) I have more than enough dmg to kill anything but builds that require a +1, in which case I won't waste time fightning them unless it's necessary
    2) "Soaring devastation" offers 25% movement speed, that's all I require if you want more...play thief or GS ranger
    3) I adapt to enemy composition, high burst aoe vs mesmer/necro comps and sustain bruiser vs holo/war etc comps..I do fine and I am having fun
    4) Shield and LoS kiting is all I need in most cases...if I get bursted down by SB sic'em burst..well it happens as I wasn't paying attention
    5) Wtih 2 teleports and a pull, I perform fine vs high mobility targets
    6)Never used reveal trap ?! Spear of Justice is a great reveal tool when used at right time to stop a stealth class from retreating or prepare for a burst
    7)I only ever used core guard when hammer radiance burst was still a gimmick
    8)They are DH in legendary division

    I suggest you to play things like ele before complaining about dh

    If it works good for you. No one leg not playing FB support.

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    @jan.7915 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:

    @Adamixos.6785 said:
    NGL, I have been waiting for that "Dragonhunter Rework" announcement since I got back into the game earlier this year. Somewhere deep down inside, I know that it will never happen, but I am a hopeless hopeful.

    One can dream, right?

    Yes, we are all dreaming and hoping, but we know it won't happen at this rate.

    Of course it will happen, they're a company and professional development doesn't act biased.

    Rn guardian is the best pve class and has meta build in any game mode. They Go one by one, can't do all at once and DH is far from needing a rework asap.

    We've been waiting 3 years for any decent changes to dragonhunter, even basic stuff added or tweaked. Yet they have not delivered.

    And out of those Guardian builds nearly all of them are Firebrand, with dragonhunter only having one in the current meta build for raids.
    when it comes to wvw/pvp dragonhunter isn't even a thing. Firebrand does everything better than it. You are better off using Power base guardian than dragonhunter for pvp right now.

  • Adamixos.6785Adamixos.6785 Member ✭✭

    Core guard also outperforms DH in general PvE. DH is only top tier in T4 fractals and raids, where all it has to do is glasscannon their rotation in a team.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2019

    @Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:
    Were either of these ever OP in the past few years? Don't think they ever gave people many issues except at lower tiers. Why nerf?
    Slowest pvp class, lowest health pool... and now mediocre DPS. Are any builds even viable at higher levels anymore or do we have to suck it up and play FB?
    If Anet wanted to force people to play different builds, shouldn't they have reasonably buffed other traits/lines to encourage those, not tanked what was currently working?

    They aren't OP so Anet hates them? Wow. That's some pretty sensational standards right there.

    Why nerf? Oh that's easy ... because balance isn't about relative class performance, that's why.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I hate to do this but...is the OP serious?...how is it possible to describe dh/core guard as bad?..if there is one class which is loved by anet, that would be guardian
    The class is meta everywhere, simple to pick up, fun to use and good matchup scaling...DH is simply a joy to use...I have 8k hours on ele, 3k on ranger and recently jumped on guardian because I am kitten tired of kitten balance/frustration and unfun gameplay .

    Been playing dh from pvp to wvw ( tempest gave me the blues playing support for 2 years..I simply hate healer support and won't be touching fb unless I have to ) and I just love it , got : pulsing reveal/burning - teleports - heal/condi burst - blocks for days - good dmg and I can go trap burst with moderate success ...simply a joy to use dh, simple and effective..not afraid of 1v1 anybody as I can be a challenge for anybody

    DH is bad. It has good sustainability and not bad solo but:

    1) lacks damage to kill high sustain targets.
    2) too slow to roam in sPvP.
    3) not effective in team fights.
    4) highly susceptible to ranged damage.
    5) performs poorly against enemies with high mobility.

    FYI, in sPvP never ever use the reveal trap. Complete waste of a utility slot. Also, never play trap burst, unless your aim is to compete in gold 1.

    Core guardian has difficulty issues. It has much better mobility and damage, but it is relatively easy to control and kite. Also, not good solo.

    Overall, if your aim is to be competitive, neither build is viable beyond 1600.

    Not entirely true, but that’s bwcause the way Anet made DH to be played. DO need that burst surprise damage from very seeker based stats,it’s like drop traps and go strealth then pull targets to traps and burst basically, we migh have a meditation build working but that’s simple due meditation are strong and somewhat tuned to the rest of the game.

    It was always a idiotic and bad designed class imo.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    Abandon hope, all ye who spec DH

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    DH works fine but it has been the same build/skills for so long that any opponent worth his mouse would guess what you are gonna do next. I mever had any problems fighting vs a dh but I mever had any problems playing with it either. It was my favourite at the beginning of HoT and it still is.

    But it does not mean there are no problems with it. Longbow needs a good rework especially with aa. Traps need a buff and a solution vs retaliation (you die from it pretty quickly). Other problems are already listed by other good players.
    DH is still my favourite and I am pretty comfortable with it. Yet it ia behind the power level and tactical situation of the game.

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