I'm worried about this game, When WOW classic Comes out.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Ultramex.1506 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I never played WoW, always thought it looked fun but I never played it for one simple reason.Mandatory sub fee.

Ah yes the sub fee, i alway hate it for few reason:

• I feel the need to play it everyday so i don't waste muh 15$
• Now i know what i'm about to say probably just paranoid but i think some mmo slow down your progress on purpose to make you keep subbing
• It's just like taxes/bills
• I don't like paying for a game every month

I mean but if you never played WoW because of the 15$ per month sub fee, then you likely never played a quality MMO back then.

Guild Wars 1 wasnt a MMO but more of a 3D Diablo made by Diablo 2 people....

[Erasculio.2914]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Guild Wars 1 wasnt a MMO but more of a 3D Diablo made by Diablo 2 people....

Not really. Guild Wars had less in common with Diablo than with WoW (and it had little in common with WoW).

Diablo is a loot-based game. The point is for a character to kill a lot of monsters to get more loot to get more powerful and then kill a stronger lot of monsters to get even better loot and thus even more powerful.

Guild Wars had nothing in common with that.

The only similarity was the use of a lobby system (and vaguely the use of a fantasy setting).

[Vayne.8563]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

[ZeroTheCat.2684]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Lol I've not heard argument for 5 years, usually from the same people, farmed by companies like blizzard like veritable sheep, must play/pay or I will fall behind the gear curve! In the mean time players play elsewhere at their leasure with less cynically run games, year after year after year. Do you know why blizzard finally gave In and created vanilla? Desperation, they know it has a short shelf life and yet they felt compelled to do it - not a good sign, rift and LOTR went down the exact same path for the same reasons.

[James.1032]

WoW Classic won't threaten GW2 because barely anyone is playing GW2 as it is. I find it interesting how everyone has started calling the game's audience a 'niche'. It's like a nice way of saying minority.

GW2 has a terrible leveling experience and isn't exactly much different from FFXIV or WoW. Hearts are still 'collect X kill Y' they just don't directly tell you that. Filling a bar is easier on the eyes. There's more to FFXIV than its 1-50 experience but at least its players admit that it's bad. I was lucky enough to level all the characters I wanted through EOTM before they removed XP gains from it and I don't regret any of it. Zerging in a group with the threat of enemy players was more interesting than filling hearts and pressing F.FFXIV expansions also have critical acclaim and high praise from players. Opinions on GW2 expansions always seem split (especially with HoT jesus christ lmao) so there isn't much hype for the stuff at the level 80 finish line.

I've tried getting my sister into this game and she can't stand the personal story. It would be nice to have someone I know play the GW2 with me but no one has even heard of it. This game's cultural significance and social media presence fizzled out after 2013.

[Kumbaya.4689]

@Lonami.2987 said:I hope WoW classic does great, the whole MMO genre isn't doing very well, and a great hit would help a lot, specially if it's trying to bring back old school values.

This!I played WoW 2004-2010 and I have absolutely no reason to even try WoW Classic.Though I really hope the title does great and bring back old school values.

[Vayne.8563]

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

A massive failure like this speaks volumes about ANet's competence though.

[Amaranthe.3578]

@VDAC.2137 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@VDAC.2137 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Part of GW2’s appeal is that it

doesn’t

have an endless vertical “progression” — run as fast as you can just to stay in the same place. As you said, most MMO’s have that so you and everyone else who likes to grind for what will be made irrelevant can go play any one of those. GW2 is for people who’d prefer to work toward fun things, horizontal expansion — gliding, mounts, etc.

Are you mentally challanged?I'm on a GW2 forum, playing GW2.... clearly I dont like the way most MMOs (especially wow) do progression and I prefer GW2.When I get the itch for a game with good itemization I go for Grim Dawn/ PoE

I suppose I might be before I’ve had my morning coffee. :o I had read your post as a criticism of GW2 for not having vertical progression, which I’m tired of seeing along with all the doom threads of late, and just posted on reaction against that, sorry. (You’ll have to concede that posting on the GW2 forum does not, in fact, mean that you like or even currently play the game, going by some of the other threads posted, but I did jump to an assumption).

That explains it all. I'm basically retarded before my morning coffee. I think GW2 is designed for specific players and the progression reflects that.

[Vayne.8563]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

A massive failure like this speaks volumes about ANet's competence though.

Or the changing market. Guild Wars 2 remains successful. You know how we know? Stock calls. The company lets people know when games do or don't meet expectations. We've not often (I can only remember one quarter) where it was said Guild Wars 2 didn't meet expectations. And you know, lots of companies go and produce stuff that never gets off the ground. It happens all the time. Look at Everquest Next. Blizzard with Titan. Titan was completely cancelled, but we're not going to use that against blizzard, are we? I'd call that a double standard. Saying that failed projects, or ones that don't materialize indicates anything without knowing a whole lot more than we do is just baseless speculation.

We opened a store that failed, because the guy who was supposed to run it backed out the night before opening and we didn't really have anyone to replace him. Sometimes circumstance can cause something to fail that has nothing to do with competence. Markets change. Situations evolve. It's entirely possible that NcSoft saw their games profits going down pretty much across the board and they felt they had to take action to restore investor confidence and this is what they felt they could afford to cut. This sort of thing happens in business pretty much all the time.

To be fair, it might well indicate incompetence...however we don't have the data to make that call.

[Amaranthe.3578]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

A massive failure like this speaks volumes about ANet's competence though.

Or the changing market. Guild Wars 2 remains successful. You know how we know? Stock calls. The company lets people know when games do or don't meet expectations. We've not often (I can only remember one quarter) where it was said Guild Wars 2 didn't meet expectations. And you know, lots of companies go and produce stuff that never gets off the ground. It happens all the time. Look at Everquest Next. Blizzard with Titan. Titan was completely cancelled, but we're not going to use that against blizzard, are we? I'd call that a double standard. Saying that failed projects, or ones that don't materialize indicates anything without knowing a whole lot more than we do is just baseless speculation.

We opened a store that failed, because the guy who was supposed to run it backed out the night before opening and we didn't really have anyone to replace him. Sometimes circumstance can cause something to fail that has nothing to do with competence. Markets change. Situations evolve. It's entirely possible that NcSoft saw their games profits going down pretty much across the board and they felt they had to take action to restore investor confidence and this is what they felt they could afford to cut. This sort of thing happens in business pretty much all the time.

To be fair, it might well indicate incompetence...however we don't have the data to make that call.

Not use that against Blizz? What? How? Why?Blizzard is a fucking garbage company now and have been pretty much since they got in bed with Activision. Major failures of any kind show something, always.

[RoterFuchs.9216]

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

A massive failure like this speaks volumes about ANet's competence though.

Or the changing market. Guild Wars 2 remains successful. You know how we know? Stock calls. The company lets people know when games do or don't meet expectations. We've not often (I can only remember one quarter) where it was said Guild Wars 2 didn't meet expectations. And you know, lots of companies go and produce stuff that never gets off the ground. It happens all the time. Look at Everquest Next. Blizzard with Titan. Titan was completely cancelled, but we're not going to use that against blizzard, are we? I'd call that a double standard. Saying that failed projects, or ones that don't materialize indicates anything without knowing a whole lot more than we do is just baseless speculation.

We opened a store that failed, because the guy who was supposed to run it backed out the night before opening and we didn't really have anyone to replace him. Sometimes circumstance can cause something to fail that has nothing to do with competence. Markets change. Situations evolve. It's entirely possible that NcSoft saw their games profits going down pretty much across the board and they felt they had to take action to restore investor confidence and this is what they felt they could afford to cut. This sort of thing happens in business pretty much all the time.

To be fair, it might well indicate incompetence...however we don't have the data to make that call.

Not use that against Blizz? What? How? Why?Blizzard is a kitten garbage company now and have been pretty much since they got in bed with Activision. Major failures of any kind show something, always.

Titan became Overwatch, which is successful enough.

[lezbefriends.7516]

This game is “not like WoW”? Are you guys serious?! That may have been true in 2012, but everything they’ve done since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW: adding raids, pleasing hardcore fans, adding mounts, adding gear grind (legendary armor, trinkets..), the Skyscale grind, etc.

[yann.1946]

@Mortifera.6138 said:This game is “not like WoW”? Are you guys serious?! That may have been true in 2012, but everything they’ve done since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW: adding raids, pleasing hardcore fans, adding mounts, adding gear grind (legendary armor, trinkets..), the Skyscale grind, etc.

Tbf mounts like in gw2 are pretty unique in the mmo genre. The raids also function fundamentally differently then most raids in other mmo's and grind for specific things has always been a thing in gw2 on top of adding lots of things to diminish the grind (dragonbash for example)

[Vayne.8563]

@RoterFuchs.9216 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

A massive failure like this speaks volumes about ANet's competence though.

Or the changing market. Guild Wars 2 remains successful. You know how we know? Stock calls. The company lets people know when games do or don't meet expectations. We've not often (I can only remember one quarter) where it was said Guild Wars 2 didn't meet expectations. And you know, lots of companies go and produce stuff that never gets off the ground. It happens all the time. Look at Everquest Next. Blizzard with Titan. Titan was completely cancelled, but we're not going to use that against blizzard, are we? I'd call that a double standard. Saying that failed projects, or ones that don't materialize indicates anything without knowing a whole lot more than we do is just baseless speculation.

We opened a store that failed, because the guy who was supposed to run it backed out the night before opening and we didn't really have anyone to replace him. Sometimes circumstance can cause something to fail that has nothing to do with competence. Markets change. Situations evolve. It's entirely possible that NcSoft saw their games profits going down pretty much across the board and they felt they had to take action to restore investor confidence and this is what they felt they could afford to cut. This sort of thing happens in business pretty much all the time.

To be fair, it might well indicate incompetence...however we don't have the data to make that call.

Not use that against Blizz? What? How? Why?Blizzard is a kitten garbage company now and have been pretty much since they got in bed with Activision. Major failures of any kind show something, always.

Titan became Overwatch, which is successful enough.

Titan did not become overwatch. Titan was abandoned. They used the assets they created to make a new game, because why waste the work. It's a; different product. One game that was in production for a couple of years was completely abandoned. A second game was made, a new game that's successful. All they did was use the graphics because they'd already created them. Not the same thing at all.

[Vayne.8563]

@Mortifera.6138 said:This game is “not like WoW”? Are you guys serious?! That may have been true in 2012, but everything they’ve done since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW: adding raids, pleasing hardcore fans, adding mounts, adding gear grind (legendary armor, trinkets..), the Skyscale grind, etc.

Adding things that are done differently does not make the game like WOW. Guild Wars 2 raids are not progression raids and they don't need progression gear. There's no LFR here, LFG works differently.

Guild Wars 2 has mounts, but they're nothing like WOW mounts. They're a unique Guild Wars 2 version of mounts that exist in no other game but this one. I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase loves them.

This game has very little in common with WoW. You're hung up on the word raids.

[Ashantara.8731]

Unless they don't get rid of the ugly cartoon graphics in WoW (especially elves with antenna ears, bleh), I won't touch it, classic or not.

[Teratus.2859]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Ultramex.1506 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:I never played WoW, always thought it looked fun but I never played it for one simple reason.Mandatory sub fee.

Ah yes the sub fee, i alway hate it for few reason:

• I feel the need to play it everyday so i don't waste muh 15$
• Now i know what i'm about to say probably just paranoid but i think some mmo slow down your progress on purpose to make you keep subbing
• It's just like taxes/bills
• I don't like paying for a game every month

I mean but if you never played WoW because of the 15$ per month sub fee, then you likely never played a quality MMO back then.

Guild Wars 1 wasnt a MMO but more of a 3D Diablo made by Diablo 2 people....

If sub deems quality then there are very few quality MMO's in existence since the vast majority of them either died because nobody would pay the subfee/choose that game over another or they went free2play out of desperation to grow the userbase and justify their existence.

The Sub model simply doesn't work because of those reasons.. one game dominates all others due to popularity or more simply first come first serve as is the case with WoW.A huge install base who've invested so much time and money into the game typically means they don't want to leave or do the same with another MMO becuase it would make their current investment go to waste.The other part is that with so many games demanding subfees people are far more likely to go to the most popular game because it's the most popular therefore it must be the "best" and the rest of the games struggle to find an install base and make their money thus being forced to go f2p or die.Doesn't matter if those games are better or worse nor whether they could rival the big names like WoW if they were on equal grounds, they'll never get the chance in a sub market because said market is simply unfair to late comers.

Going against the norm and finding alternatives to make profit is not only the smart thing to do in this market but I would argue it's essential to avoid your game ending up in the same f2p mess that a lot of failed sub model MMO's are in today.. play free with a crippling account ristrictions and almost extortionate cash shops and RNG lootboxes to keep people paying for the best stuff.Gw2 is increadibly fair and consumer friendly when compared to other MMO's in that regard and that seems to be working for them.

[RoterFuchs.9216]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@RoterFuchs.9216 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

A massive failure like this speaks volumes about ANet's competence though.

Or the changing market. Guild Wars 2 remains successful. You know how we know? Stock calls. The company lets people know when games do or don't meet expectations. We've not often (I can only remember one quarter) where it was said Guild Wars 2 didn't meet expectations. And you know, lots of companies go and produce stuff that never gets off the ground. It happens all the time. Look at Everquest Next. Blizzard with Titan. Titan was completely cancelled, but we're not going to use that against blizzard, are we? I'd call that a double standard. Saying that failed projects, or ones that don't materialize indicates anything without knowing a whole lot more than we do is just baseless speculation.

We opened a store that failed, because the guy who was supposed to run it backed out the night before opening and we didn't really have anyone to replace him. Sometimes circumstance can cause something to fail that has nothing to do with competence. Markets change. Situations evolve. It's entirely possible that NcSoft saw their games profits going down pretty much across the board and they felt they had to take action to restore investor confidence and this is what they felt they could afford to cut. This sort of thing happens in business pretty much all the time.

To be fair, it might well indicate incompetence...however we don't have the data to make that call.

Not use that against Blizz? What? How? Why?Blizzard is a kitten garbage company now and have been pretty much since they got in bed with Activision. Major failures of any kind show something, always.

Titan became Overwatch, which is successful enough.

Titan did not become overwatch. Titan was abandoned. They used the assets they created to make a new game, because why waste the work. It's a; different product. One game that was in production for a couple of years was completely abandoned. A second game was made, a new game that's successful. All they did was use the graphics because they'd already created them. Not the same thing at all.

Are you really starting to argue about the wording "become" right now? If Titan hadn't happened the way it did there would not have been Overwatch, it's as simple as that.

Feel free to read up on the history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(Blizzard_Entertainment_project)#Transition_to_Overwatch

[Ghetx.1752]

@"mikhail.3506" said:I honestly Hooope nothing will happen to this game, it's a good game. But if we don't get a HUGE update like a new expansion/content come August there won't be anyone left playing this game. No players= no money = no content. It's gonna be a vicious cycle.

So What new content are we getting in August, and will it be enough to stop people from going to WOW CLassic?

WoW classis compared to today's expansions and games is 'outdated as fcku.

I'm tired of all these vanilla was awesome thread, it was a solid game that has been blown out of the water with all of the advancements that have been made since. So here's a short list of the things that sucked back then:

40 players 2 pieces of loot, and no free point system epics

spending at least a half hour getting everyone together before raids expecially if you played horde on an alliance controlled server and had to carpool together into blackrock mountain to avoid pvp

it sucked farming gold, so much so that it was pretty usual to see 60's without epic riding for long periods of time.

Class imbalance today is nothing compared to back then. WoW was designed purposefully be a rock paper scissors match in which some classes had no chance against others while some were uncounterable (rogues)

Running a dungeon while leveling was the most inefficient thing you could ever do, it would take hours some times to put together a group and then just as long to summon everyone there and complete it just so you could get a couple bars of xp tops.

UBRS taking 15 people and still being considered really hard and even impossible without a goo hunter who could kite

I would be willing to bet that any player who started raiding with mc and stuck through it throughout all of vanilla (possibly going for tfurry or helping guild) has spent more time in that one raid than they have in every other one since then. They called it molten bore for a reason.

AQ releases and it takes a month at minimum before anyone can set foot inside of it, prior to that the entire server is forced to grind in order to open the gates. God forbid you were on a lower pop server

Naxx is touted as the end all be all to raids and it gets released months before TBC and is hard as balls. The best guilds on servers were proud to say screw it at 6/14.

First there was no organized pvp, then there was wsg and oldschool av which you could only play against people on your own server which required your server to be somewhat balanced or else you spend days in queue. And on top of that you have to be at the portal to queue so if you wanted to pvp you pretty much just spent all day hanging in north barens/ashenvale and occasianlly alterec.

Furthermore the pvp system was beyond broken, you could farm for months on end spending hours every day pvping just so you could become hwl and win gear that gets replaced in bwl(the second raid). By the time you hit aq or nax you started to question why you wasted all that time on useless gear.

Lastly about the old pvp system is it didn't take long for people to grow a brain and start forming hwl and grand marshal groups. The way it worked is you had to get invited to play with them on your server and then you were forced to attain a certain level of honor each week, any less and you would fall behind and never rank up and too much and you would get kicked out of the group and blackballed which basically made it impossible to ever get max rank. Then after months of rigging the honor system on your server you could finally get your crap gear.

Oh and one more thing, the best gear for pvp was the best gear for raids so if you liked to pvp you had to raid, and if you didn't you could still go in and roll face if you were geared enough.

There was little to no variety in mounts, everyone pretty much had their racial mount and that was it, and even if you got more than that each mount took up bag space so collecting was pretty much unheard of, same thing with pets.

ZHC+TOEP nerf set the standard for all future trinkets

Addons were miles behind where they are today, it took a while for many of the addons we love today to even come out in their early forms/predeccesors (CTmods anyone)

Threat was broken, some classes cough cough warlock, had zero threat reduction and having 4-5 dps die on any given trash pull was common if they weren't paying attention. Waiting for 5 sunders was the most boring thing ever to do.

Furthermore the primary thing a tank was judged for was their ability to hold threat. The main reason thunderfurry was touted as the best tanking sword all the way to level 70 raids was the threat its proc created.

Class roles were mandatory, if you were a druid you healed, a shaman you healed, a priest you healed, a warrior you tanked.

Shamans sucked compared to paladins for pve and horde in general was at a disadvantage for having them.

Server transfers weren't created until the end of vanilla so because of the fact there was no x-realm stuff if you didn't like your server or you were blacklisted from multiple guilds you pretty much were forced to reroll, which took a lot longer to level.

Cookie cutter talent specs were far more restricting than now, each class had one exact spec they had to use for raiding for the most part. And because there were no dual talent specs and respeccing cost a fortune you were pretty much stuck with your cookie cutter spec.

Bots and exploiters were far more prevalent then they are today, there was a point at which you could actually dupe items and it wasn't uncommon to see a gagle of players jumping in and out of instances over and over.

Not all gear but a lot of offeset items were ugly as sin, look up gloves of hypnotic flame and vestments of the shifting sands and imagine being an undead warlock, it completely removes any badassnes of the character.

It wasn't uncommon to run full clears of every old tier of raiding including 20 mans even when your guild was starting nax due to how much harder it was to gear players back then.

I remember some pretty epic forum threads about the most rediculous excuses players would use to ninja log to get out of raiding the rest of the night. Any raid content past the twin emps was brutal and as cool as hard content is when there is no difference between hard mode and normal and blizzard never nerfed anything back then it was difficult.

Barrens Chat

Having to use allakazham instead of wowhead

World pvp existed but 75% of it was ganking lowbies

Getting attuned or keyed for EVERYTHING. Still have terrible memories of doing onyxia quest chain. The worst part was even once you did it for yourself you still ended up getting conned into helping everyone else do it in your guild 10 more times. Felt like you had to run an mc attune every time you ran it. And naxx attuning etiher cost you a fortune or forced you to grind a rep that took a lot longer back then.

[Fomivee.3065]

I don't think GW2 and classic WoW target the same audience.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

It helps to actually understand the context. The people who were let go, reportedly, were all working on non-GW2 related projects that had stalled or were being shutdown. Some devs reportedly were re-tasked BACK to GW2.

So no, the layoffs mean nothing with regards to GW2, but speaks to ANET as a company, and what they were doing. Again, reportedly, the only title ANET is now currently working on is GW2.

So you tell me: is that good or bad?

[Knighthonor.4061]

@RoterFuchs.9216 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@RoterFuchs.9216 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:WoW classic is a fad that will likely only last for those who are stuck in the past. It is a completely different style of gaming which was one of the main reason GW2 was successful and why many people sought out GW2 in the first place so why would we leave to go to something we had little interest in to begin with? Some will try it out and remember just how much of a horrible grinding experience it was and come tearing back here.

When was GW2 successful? Especially compared to something colossal like WoW.GW2 launched as the "next gen mmo experience" and it just fell flat on its kitten since it doesn't have any sort of vertical progression which is one the core concepts of almost any rpg. GW2 is a very weird beast that appeals to a very specific niche market.Anyways, GW2 and Classic WoW dont compete over the same players for the most part.

Holy smokes? When was Guild Wars 2 successful? All along. Since day 1. Since it sold 4 million pre launch copies, it's considered successful. You don't compare every new drink that comes out to coke. You don't see a new drink that doesn't make the money coke does isn't successful. That's not how it works.

WoW launched at a time when there were very very little competition. The market was tiny. They were competing with very niche games and due to the success of other games, largely the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises, they had a ton of money to advertise. Guild Wars 1 would have been competition back then, but didn't have the war chest to advertise and wasn't at true MMO because it' didn't have an open world.

At any rate, now the market is more fragmented. Even WOW has lost a huge section of it's player base, but no one is taking down WoW is the #1 MMO, in my mind ever. If it happens, it will be monumental. Then you have a game like Final Fantasy which is available on both console and computer, and it's the XIVth game in the series. It's also very popular in Asia where a lot of it's playerbase comes from.

Guild Wars 2 has been for years in the top five, or six MMORPGs and certainly one of the top MMORPGs in the west. Games like Lineage, which does great in Korea in fact, had to close in the West where it failed. Guild Wars 2 was 6 years old when it had it's first layoffs. TSW and SWTOR had lay offs much sooner. ESO started as a sub game and had to go free to play. FF XIV had to apologize at the start of the game and completely reboot the game, because it was such a disaster. At one point they stopped charging subs, because it was not playable. Due to the fact that they are a popular frachise they got a second chance.

Anyone who says this game isn't successful because WoW is successful is deluding themselves. Something can be both niche and successful. 7 UP has been around for years and it's a successful drink, but it doesn't sell nearly as much as coke. It still has it's niche and it's still considered successful.

Successful in business only means one thing..meets or exceeds expectations. Guild Wars 2 is largely met or exceeded the expectations of it's investors. How is it not successful?

Because they fired a bunch of people..? That usually means they did NOT meet the expectations. Actually that usually means it is going rather bad.

They fired Anet employees, who were working on mostly other projects that didn't get off the ground, if you've been paying any attention at all. Companies are not products. Were you the one who mentioned WoW, because Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people too, so I guess you could say that it's going rather bad, but you're not. Compared to something like SWToR which laid off a bunch of a people a year into the game, not 6.5 years. The issue with drawing conclusions in the absence of fact is that you end up drawing the wrong conclusions.

Anet attempted to diversify by going into other projects and couldn't get those projects finished in either a timely manner, or within budget, or to some level of quality satisfaction. Some of those projects have been cancelled, Some of the devs that worked on those projects moved back to Guild Wars 2. That doesn't say Guild Wars 2 is doing badly, though it doesn't speak very highly necessarily of Anet. Again, Blizzard just laid off a bunch of people, so why aren't you applying the same logic to WoW?

A massive failure like this speaks volumes about ANet's competence though.

Or the changing market. Guild Wars 2 remains successful. You know how we know? Stock calls. The company lets people know when games do or don't meet expectations. We've not often (I can only remember one quarter) where it was said Guild Wars 2 didn't meet expectations. And you know, lots of companies go and produce stuff that never gets off the ground. It happens all the time. Look at Everquest Next. Blizzard with Titan. Titan was completely cancelled, but we're not going to use that against blizzard, are we? I'd call that a double standard. Saying that failed projects, or ones that don't materialize indicates anything without knowing a whole lot more than we do is just baseless speculation.

We opened a store that failed, because the guy who was supposed to run it backed out the night before opening and we didn't really have anyone to replace him. Sometimes circumstance can cause something to fail that has nothing to do with competence. Markets change. Situations evolve. It's entirely possible that NcSoft saw their games profits going down pretty much across the board and they felt they had to take action to restore investor confidence and this is what they felt they could afford to cut. This sort of thing happens in business pretty much all the time.

To be fair, it might well indicate incompetence...however we don't have the data to make that call.

Not use that against Blizz? What? How? Why?Blizzard is a kitten garbage company now and have been pretty much since they got in bed with Activision. Major failures of any kind show something, always.

Titan became Overwatch, which is successful enough.

Titan did not become overwatch. Titan was abandoned. They used the assets they created to make a new game, because why waste the work. It's a; different product. One game that was in production for a couple of years was completely abandoned. A second game was made, a new game that's successful. All they did was use the graphics because they'd already created them. Not the same thing at all.

Are you really starting to argue about the wording "become" right now? If Titan hadn't happened the way it did there would not have been Overwatch, it's as simple as that.

Feel free to read up on the history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(Blizzard_Entertainment_project)#Transition_to_Overwatch

I believe Titan became Destiny, which I believe Blizzard helped make in some way.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

It took wow classic releasing for u to be worried about gw2's future?