What are Guardian's biggest flaws? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What are Guardian's biggest flaws?

I've recently returned to the game and I'm deliberating what profession to main. I'd like to hear the forum's thoughts on what holds back Guardian in both PvE and PvP content.

Side note: GS is my favorite weapon by a mile.

Comments

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    PvE issues? Nothing. Power dragon hunter using GS and scepter (or sword)/focus is one of the strongest builds in PvE. Massive AOE damage and probably the highest overall burst. In addition, guardian and ranger are the only 2 classes that use GS in their meta PvE builds. I would give GW2metabattle website a visit for details.

    Keeping with PvE, Fire Brand condition build are extremely powerful as well. And guardian is one of the few classes that can successfully play a hybrid power and condi build. Support builds are also highly viable for PvE.

    If PvE is you main dish, GS is your most liked weapon, guardian is definitely the class you want to play.

    PvP is where the problems are. Fire Brand support is extremely powerful, if you like support. Other than that, guardian dps builds in PvP do not work well due to mobility issues and low HP pool. There is more to it than that, but as a guardian main I would highly recommend not playing any guardian build in PvP for someone just returning to the game.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The lack of a 25% movement speed buff in the core traitline. There is a lot of way to compensate but, if I have to point out a flaw it will always be this.

  • since the update it does seem DH has a buff, its not the greatest to play by any means but if you really get good at it and timing your pulls you can beat most classes, though i do struggle vs thief because i run a high offensive build and my defense is Prot which is stripped in .5 seconds from steal , if your looking to try DH in wvw you should give this a try

    Valk armor + weps
    Diviners Trinkets
    Rune is Trapper
    pretty solid layout rune of the trapper helps with the much needed time for DH setup for skills like Trueshot and Spear of justice :) easily one of my fav classes even in PvP people dont see trapper rune DH often so it catches alot of people off ............................. INSERT PUN HERE............................ Guard LMFAO im dying....

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    Unpopular opinion here.
    I actually think that DPS guardian is extremely overdependent on traits and not enough on its own mechanics or skills. Guardian has some of the best damage modifiers in the game which result in one of the best power Dps classes for PvE. But the issue is that you essentially have one predetermined play style with trait choices that were essentially pre-selected for you by Anet.
    This, in combination with low health pool results in a play style that i always found to be very counter-intuitive and suicidal. In many ways guardian feels more like a suicide bomber than "guardian", at least for me personally. It's not an output issue but purely issue of how it feels to play the class

    I also think that this is what is partially dragging down nonFB specs in PVP as the general pacing of encounters and dynamic of PvP simply won't let you "cash in" on all of the things that make guardian great in PvE. Also, you are as mobile as car without wheels.

    Thank god, this issue is mitigated in PVE by the fact that in PvE guardian is overall in the great spot with wide range of available roles, from DPS to healer and support.

  • kroof.5468kroof.5468 Member ✭✭

    Stoic Demeanor... nuff said. LOL :pensive:

  • The low health pool hurts, but in pve I don't have too many issues with it.
    I think to be perfectly honest, one of the guardians biggest flaws is its almost complete lack of stun/daze. Aside from the daze on FB axe, which you dont even get unless you trait for it, the guardian (in all its diversity) has not a single skill that legitimately stuns an opponent.
    While we do have other crowd control skills (pull, knockback, launch, etc) I personally feel that the lack of any real stun really counts as a weakness.

    P.S. This is coming from a guardian main. I have no complaints really about the class, I honestly don't like playing as anything else.

  • YuiRS.8129YuiRS.8129 Member ✭✭

    Low mobility. That's about it. Firebrand is amazing, Core Guard is good (more so after the recent buff). Dragonhunter is kinda weaksauce, so if you wanted to play that... tough, but even then, it's not totally terrible.

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭

    Another downside is that DH rotation isn't feeling as nice as say the daredevil.

    There's not a lot bad about guardian honestly,it can do everything on one class (support,dps for pve and support for pvp.also hard meta in wvw).

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    PvP is where the problems are. Fire Brand support is extremely powerful, if you like support. Other than that, guardian dps builds in PvP do not work well due to mobility issues and low HP pool. There is more to it than that, but as a guardian main I would highly recommend not playing any guardian build in PvP for someone just returning to the game.

    I'll expand off this since what otto said is true. For the dps-based guardian specs in pvp/wvw, they are actually in a pretty decent spot, but fall behind the top contenders for similar roles since they can't output quite as much as these other specs.... whether it's dps, burst, CC, boons, mobility, or evades. Our two primary dps-based builds, DH and core guard just fall behind builds/specs like holosmith, soulbeast, mirage and revenant (historically). I've given this a lot of thought and I honestly don't think the solution is to buff DH or core guard much more.

    It would be great if instead of buffing guard, we nerfed some of the other classes. For example, one multi-class nerf that could be done would be to heavily reduce access to the protection boon, or make it so that it's nearly impossible to pull off high dps AND have high protection uptime (make the protection-granting traits compete with key damage-related traits). As it stands right now, the entire guardian class has absolutely no way of dealing with a class that can maintain the protection boon due to a lack of boon removal (and no, the pvp nullification sigil doesn't do NEARLY enough to even be noticeable).

    There are small QoL or even small numerical buffs that guardian could receive that I think would improve their performance a lot without overtuning them, but we don't need things like flat buffs to damaging/healing skills and traits since that would only further imbalance guard from builds/classes lower than guard on the totem pole.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2019

    @Arcaedus.7290 Regardless of how Anet buff or nerf other builds/classes, there two essential things that guardian power builds need in PvP:

    1) Reliable means to have 25% movement speed. Guardian is the only class forced to use Lynx or traveler runes. Every single class with every single build have either the 25% movement speed or swiftness backed into their builds.

    2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

  • TanksK.4795TanksK.4795 Member ✭✭✭

    PvE - low hp.
    PvP - Predictable.

  • Bawi.9541Bawi.9541 Member ✭✭
    edited July 20, 2019

    low base hp, low movespeed

    It's not exactly holding them back, guardian is legit

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭

    Low HP pool forcing you to invest in vitality no matter the build in non PvE gamemodes. If guardian had mid tier HP it would be in a much healthier spot in the long run, but until then most builds are kitten unless you go Force of Will or Righetous Instincts for the stats they give

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    I played my guardian up to level 80 and just never warmed up to him. He seems almost as squishy as my elementalist. I prefer my necro/minion master or my ranger/archer with pets. The guardian spent too much time getting whacked, while waiting for skills to recharge.

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    I played my guardian up to level 80 and just never warmed up to him. He seems almost as squishy as my elementalist. I prefer my necro/minion master or my ranger/archer with pets. The guardian spent too much time getting whacked, while waiting for skills to recharge.

    Stating that you only like builds that enable you to stand still doesn't point out class flaws.guardian is a very tanky open world spec with good sustain bad ele has even more sustain. Low hp in PvP modes is totally true but for pve, simply no.

    Giving guardian mid range hp would make firebrand very broken though and while I get bad feel similar about my DH if I go casually PvP I know that I could always play firebrand and be fully meta. Therefore low hp might be true but not a class problem because the class has a very viable very sustainable PvP build.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @jan.7915 said:

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    I played my guardian up to level 80 and just never warmed up to him. He seems almost as squishy as my elementalist. I prefer my necro/minion master or my ranger/archer with pets. The guardian spent too much time getting whacked, while waiting for skills to recharge.

    Stating that you only like builds that enable you to stand still doesn't point out class flaws...

    Did I say it was a flawed class? No. He asked what is wrong with Guardian, and to me I dislike the low HP and long recharge time. Does not make it flawed, but does make it something I do not want to play as much. And while waiting for skill recharge I sure can't stand still ha ha Don't try and make up kitten out of other people's words

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    Did I say it was a flawed class? No. He asked what is wrong with Guardian, and to me I dislike the low HP and long recharge time. Does not make it flawed, but does make it something I do not want to play as much. And while waiting for skill recharge I sure can't stand still ha ha Don't try and make up kitten out of other people's words

    I don't have those big recharge time you are mentioning. Maybe try another build?
    In fact, recharge are pretty low except some utilities but it's true for all professions.

    Low HP is effectively an issue, as without vitality, you can get downed in one strong hit.
    That aside, you can heal very fast, litany of wrath is awesome!

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:

    @jan.7915 said:

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    I played my guardian up to level 80 and just never warmed up to him. He seems almost as squishy as my elementalist. I prefer my necro/minion master or my ranger/archer with pets. The guardian spent too much time getting whacked, while waiting for skills to recharge.

    Stating that you only like builds that enable you to stand still doesn't point out class flaws...

    Did I say it was a flawed class? No. He asked what is wrong with Guardian, and to me I dislike the low HP and long recharge time. Does not make it flawed, but does make it something I do not want to play as much. And while waiting for skill recharge I sure can't stand still ha ha Don't try and make up kitten out of other people's words

    You want a build to stand still bad have pets tank while having enough hp to survive many mistakes in a row. That's fair for open world but guardian is super tanky, focus 5, aegis,f2, litany..

    Recharge time on what is long?

    @Aigleborgne.2981 getting down with one strong hit, you mean open world?that rarely happens to me and I am poor therefore don't have a marauder set for open world,yet.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its health pool not being medium and being relatively slow.

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2019

    @jan.7915 said:
    @Aigleborgne.2981 getting down with one strong hit, you mean open world?that rarely happens to me and I am poor therefore don't have a marauder set for open world,yet.

    Legendary boss in open world. You can block many attacks but when you don't, one hit can down you

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2019

    Low Teir HP. (it should really be Mid tier HP)
    Aegis is completely useless now due to unblockable attacks that go thru it and destory it without activating your traits.
    Many attacks are too slow and VERY predictable.
    The lack of no barrier within the class despite being the "defensive" / "tank" class in the game.
    The only class without any evade/dodge on its skills. (meanwhile ranger has access to 14 of them)
    Dragonhunter itself has not been properly updated or reworked in 3 years.
    Dragonhunter traps don't work on stationary things making them useless on many bosses that don't move or objects.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

    VoC idea: if they only want us to block only one attack, how about make it like Shield of Force?

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2019

    @Kulvar.1239 said:
    Lowest HP, Low mobility.

    These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

    The only other thing I would consider negative, and that is running GS + Scepter/Focus, is that your cleave is tied to GS2. I find in open world metas like Thunrderhead Keep, etc, I can tag a lot more mobs on my Daredevil, Scourge, Warrior or even Herald. It's not a huge problem, but that is why I typically bring different characters out for HoT metas, etc.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:
    Lowest HP, Low mobility.

    These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

    Is it though? I have not seen any evidence that indicate that guardian will be over powered with better mobility at all. Except for FB.

    Actually, here is a quick comparison of heavy armored classes sustain:

    Rev and warrior have way better mobility and actual skills that allow you to get out of combat.
    Both rev and warrior have better tools to avoid damage. Both have more than 1 evade skill, and ironically, both have much better tools to block damage.
    Both have significantly better CC (PvP at least).
    Guardian has better healing, due to LoW, but that does not exactly translate in PvP. Still guardian leads in healing there.
    Guardian has better condi removal, but support FB for a team can solve this issue for most classes. And guardian is a poor side noder.
    Then of course both have higher HP pools. Significantly higher. Warrior at 19K and rev herald (only comparison that matter) at 17K.

    It does not even come remotely close, unless of course you are playing FB. FB solves majority of these issues. You go from limited damage avoidance to pumping aegis like no tomorrow. You go from limited CC to multiple CCs (extremely effective using sage FB).

    In PvE mobility does not matter much and HP pool is not a significant issue. However, anywhere in PvP guardian is at a severe disadvantage, unless (I know I sound like a broken record now) you are playing FB.

    @Celestia.9128 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

    VoC idea: if they only want us to block only one attack, how about make it like Shield of Force?

    Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:
    Lowest HP, Low mobility.

    These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

    The only other thing I would consider negative, and that is running GS + Scepter/Focus, is that your cleave is tied to GS2. I find in open world metas like Thunrderhead Keep, etc, I can tag a lot more mobs on my Daredevil, Scourge, Warrior or even Herald. It's not a huge problem, but that is why I typically bring different characters out for HoT metas, etc.

    After balance patch sword is very close to szeptre. Sword has good cleave. I switched to sword for open world before bad now you can play it everywhere,the teleprt is nice.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

    I mean you don't have to copy verbatim Shield of Force from GW1. You can make it like Full Counter with only 1.5s duration. It is balanced by the fact that VoC has waayyy longer CD than FC, and the fact that unblockables still go through it. As for tell, you can probably just copy and paste that giant shield animation from GW1.

    Or another idea is make it like Bonetti's Defense. It will block for like 2-2.5s, but if you use any other skill aside from dodge-roll (be it weapon or utilities), it will end.

    Just some ideas that I think would be beneficial w/o being too overpowered.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xervite.5493 said:
    Lowest health pool

    That was my thought as well.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:
    Lowest HP, Low mobility.

    These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

    Is it though? I have not seen any evidence that indicate that guardian will be over powered with better mobility at all. Except for FB.

    Actually, here is a quick comparison of heavy armored classes sustain:

    Rev and warrior have way better mobility and actual skills that allow you to get out of combat.
    Both rev and warrior have better tools to avoid damage. Both have more than 1 evade skill, and ironically, both have much better tools to block damage.
    Both have significantly better CC (PvP at least).
    Guardian has better healing, due to LoW, but that does not exactly translate in PvP. Still guardian leads in healing there.
    Guardian has better condi removal, but support FB for a team can solve this issue for most classes. And guardian is a poor side noder.
    Then of course both have higher HP pools. Significantly higher. Warrior at 19K and rev herald (only comparison that matter) at 17K.

    It does not even come remotely close, unless of course you are playing FB. FB solves majority of these issues. You go from limited damage avoidance to pumping aegis like no tomorrow. You go from limited CC to multiple CCs (extremely effective using sage FB).

    In PvE mobility does not matter much and HP pool is not a significant issue. However, anywhere in PvP guardian is at a severe disadvantage, unless (I know I sound like a broken record now) you are playing FB.

    @Celestia.9128 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

    VoC idea: if they only want us to block only one attack, how about make it like Shield of Force?

    Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

    Could not disagree more about warrior (can't speak well enough of rev) having more access to avoiding damage.I

    Guardian is loaded with aegis and protection. They are both available through multiple traits, weapons, and utilities. Warrior doesn't even come close to the amount of defense that guardian has access to.

    Not sure about what evades you are talking about... Ensure pain? on the other hand, guardian also has blind, blocks.

    Sorry, I love my guardian where it is now. I would take guardian any day for mitigation over warrior.

    If there was anything I would fix about guardian, it would be with all low hp classes: bump their health up more. It is much more limiting to gear choices than it should be, and this is true for thief and especially ele.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    @Mea.5491 said:
    Besides what people have already mentioned (mobility/HP), in a PvE point of view:
    Too long cooldowns on core utilities even with -20% traits (shouts, meditations, consecrations).
    Too long cooldowns on Virtues AND some weapon skills (45 seconds on Longbow 5 is absolutely disgusting, 35 sec Focus 5, 20 sec on Scepter 3 just because it has immobilize despite being a crappy skill in PvE, and so on).

    This is SO true about core CDs...

    Hopefully they give it a once over like core Necro shroud skills.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:
    Lowest HP, Low mobility.

    These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

    Is it though? I have not seen any evidence that indicate that guardian will be over powered with better mobility at all. Except for FB.

    Actually, here is a quick comparison of heavy armored classes sustain:

    Rev and warrior have way better mobility and actual skills that allow you to get out of combat.
    Both rev and warrior have better tools to avoid damage. Both have more than 1 evade skill, and ironically, both have much better tools to block damage.
    Both have significantly better CC (PvP at least).
    Guardian has better healing, due to LoW, but that does not exactly translate in PvP. Still guardian leads in healing there.
    Guardian has better condi removal, but support FB for a team can solve this issue for most classes. And guardian is a poor side noder.
    Then of course both have higher HP pools. Significantly higher. Warrior at 19K and rev herald (only comparison that matter) at 17K.

    It does not even come remotely close, unless of course you are playing FB. FB solves majority of these issues. You go from limited damage avoidance to pumping aegis like no tomorrow. You go from limited CC to multiple CCs (extremely effective using sage FB).

    In PvE mobility does not matter much and HP pool is not a significant issue. However, anywhere in PvP guardian is at a severe disadvantage, unless (I know I sound like a broken record now) you are playing FB.

    @Celestia.9128 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

    VoC idea: if they only want us to block only one attack, how about make it like Shield of Force?

    Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

    Could not disagree more about warrior (can't speak well enough of rev) having more access to avoiding damage.I

    Guardian is loaded with aegis and protection. They are both available through multiple traits, weapons, and utilities. Warrior doesn't even come close to the amount of defense that guardian has access to.

    Not sure about what evades you are talking about... Ensure pain? on the other hand, guardian also has blind, blocks.

    Sorry, I love my guardian where it is now. I would take guardian any day for mitigation over warrior.

    If there was anything I would fix about guardian, it would be with all low hp classes: bump their health up more. It is much more limiting to gear choices than it should be, and this is true for thief and especially ele.

    I am not sure if you do not know or you are serious. And this is clearly PvP focused. Both core and DH can run no more than 4-5 blocks in a 30 sec window. Either focus or shield, VoJ or SoJ. And the blocks are only 1 attack block, which leaves you extremely vulnerable to focus fire. And the max protection you can get is from virtue and shield. Maybe 15% uptime.

    SB sPvP meta build has 2 sec every 30 on endure pain. 0.75 sec every 8 sec, GS 3. 3 sec continuous block every 25 sec from shield. And of course full counter. Then if you consider endurance generation from might makes right and tether, you can easy dodge once every 3-3.5 secs.

    Only FB has the ability to block damage reliably. But FB, outside of support, is not exactly stellar (for other reasons).

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

    He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

    Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    We've told them what to do for DH in PvP so many times...

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

    He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

    Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

    Yeah, strength and SB, just couldn't tell if defense vs discipline.

    Just think it is strange to compare core and dh vs SB.

    Mostly, the thread was about general weaknesses of guardian, and he lead in with less defenses than warrior. Really though, he is just talking about only the most viable, full offense core and DH builds that aren't picking defensive traits.

    Personally I think it is poor advice to tell someone about weaknesses of the guardian that they have poor evasion/block/defense when you are really only talking about 2 builds in particular. Guardian is one of, if not the most defensive profession in the whole game. The biggest thing holding them back is their super low hp.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

    He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

    Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

    Yeah, strength and SB, just couldn't tell if defense vs discipline.

    Just think it is strange to compare core and dh vs SB.

    Mostly, the thread was about general weaknesses of guardian, and he lead in with less defenses than warrior. Really though, he is just talking about only the most viable, full offense core and DH builds that aren't picking defensive traits.

    Personally I think it is poor advice to tell someone about weaknesses of the guardian that they have poor evasion/block/defense when you are really only talking about 2 builds in particular. Guardian is one of, if not the most defensive profession in the whole game. The biggest thing holding them back is their super low hp.

    Yeah. I have both classes. I wish my warrior had as many blocks as a guardian does, and on my guardian I wish I had the mobility.

  • @Xervite.5493 said:
    Lowest health pool

    but here starts the fun.

    imo no really fun range weapon. Scepter isnt a weapon for a heavy armoured class and Longbow is pretty boring.
    then GS 2 is your strongest dps skill, but the enemies decides to move ... well.

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guardian may have a larger number of defensive skills when compared to Warrior.

    However...
    Most of Guardians defenses scale badly with number of opponents. Blinds and Aegises are only good against single opponents as the effect is consumed on the next attack, especially Aegis as you can only ever have 1 Aegis on you at a time. Blind is a bit more useful in that regard as it scales better with number of foes.
    Focus 5 only blocks 3 attacks before expiring. Mace 3 is essentially an Aegis.

    Warriors Shield Block lasts for 3 seconds no matter how many opponents you have, or how many times you get hit. It's as effective vs 10 people as it is vs 1, assuming there's no Unblockable attacks present. When traited it also reflects and grants you Might, and it's on a low cd. This weapon skill is more valuable and useable than RF, an Elite skill, is.

  • @Yannir.4132 said:
    especially Aegis as you can only ever have 1 Aegis on you at a time. Blind is a bit more useful in that regard as it scales better with number of foes.
    Focus 5 only blocks 3 attacks before expiring. Mace 3 is essentially an Aegis.

    yes it is a bad design. i rembember i had the exact same problem with my guardian druid in wow cata ( thy fixed it. Aegis should work like absorb )
    you create a shield/aegis and every small hit removes it.
    so for example you fighting 2 enemies. the first one hits you for 100 the 2nd for 10k. Aegis is gone after the 100hit and you receive a full 10k hit.
    thats really bad gamedesign.

    but thats how gw2 balance works. its broken since release and i dont believe they ever gonna fix any problems.
    for example Chak event. you get 15k oneshots, because small things hit you and then the something big.
    oneshoting is a great gamedesign. every game should have it /sarcasmoff

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

    He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

    Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

    Yeah, strength and SB, just couldn't tell if defense vs discipline.

    Just think it is strange to compare core and dh vs SB.

    Mostly, the thread was about general weaknesses of guardian, and he lead in with less defenses than warrior. Really though, he is just talking about only the most viable, full offense core and DH builds that aren't picking defensive traits.

    Personally I think it is poor advice to tell someone about weaknesses of the guardian that they have poor evasion/block/defense when you are really only talking about 2 builds in particular. Guardian is one of, if not the most defensive profession in the whole game. The biggest thing holding them back is their super low hp.

    I am a bit late, but two builds? Dude, that is the entirety of guardian dps builds in sPvP and using 6/7 lines. What else is left but FB support?! (Condi core and DH do not count cuz these hardly count as builds and much worse than power alternatives).

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