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Death in Guild Wars 2 — reviving.


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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"mercury ranique.2170" said:GW2 offers very few remarks why some deaths are permament and others are not. I do not think that the difference between defeated and death is canon (Or I must have missed a source explaining it).

It is canon. This was told years back - around 2010 - in an interview with Jeff Grubb. I guess in current ArenaNet usage, that would make it "psuedo-canon" or "canon until stated otherwise". But it was told to us as to why the states are called "downed" and "defeated" not "downed" and "dead". Either way, there's only two canon deaths that were not permanent: the Commander's in PoF, and Aurene's in S4.

Of course there was
but unexplainably survived. We literally (dictionary literally) have to kill him to kill Zamon, but he's alive and well in HoT. So I guess that's three canon deaths that were not permanent, but one death being retconned out no doubt due to ArenaNet devs not paying close attention.

There was almost another - Gaheron Baelfire - but we prevented that resurrection.

GW1, on the other hand, had mechanical deaths that were deaths in lore too, with resurrection spells mentioned here and there throughout the story. But for some reason, Rurik, Saidra, Togo, and Gadd died a permanent, non-resurrectable death.

On death in GW1 i always assumed if the death was brutal e.g, Ruirk got his head chopped off, Togo was used in a ritual, and Saidra i assume was ripped apart inside and out by agony, that it wasn't easy to rez or even do able if the body was damaged to much. I know for story reasons they had to die. If i remember right blood stones also prevent the soul from reaching back to the body, though that makes me think if it wasn't retcon due to the Lich being seen later.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"mercury ranique.2170" said:GW2 offers very few remarks why some deaths are permament and others are not. I do not think that the difference between defeated and death is canon (Or I must have missed a source explaining it).

It is canon. This was told years back - around 2010 - in an interview with Jeff Grubb. I guess in current ArenaNet usage, that would make it "psuedo-canon" or "canon until stated otherwise". But it was told to us as to why the states are called "downed" and "defeated" not "downed" and "dead". Either way, there's only two canon deaths that were not permanent: the Commander's in PoF, and Aurene's in S4.

Of course there was
but unexplainably survived. We literally (dictionary literally) have to kill him to kill Zamon, but he's alive and well in HoT. So I guess that's three canon deaths that were not permanent, but one death being retconned out no doubt due to ArenaNet devs not paying close attention.

There was almost another - Gaheron Baelfire - but we prevented that resurrection.

GW1, on the other hand, had mechanical deaths that were deaths in lore too, with resurrection spells mentioned here and there throughout the story. But for some reason, Rurik, Saidra, Togo, and Gadd died a permanent, non-resurrectable death.

Unless Zamon is considered lore-wise to have been killed before Eitel was maybe?

But yeah, just think of it as finishing a fight and seeing a bunch of people laying all over on the floor. Some may be dead, others may be wounded and can be healed.

You cannot kill Zamon before Eitel. If you bring Zamon down low enough before killing Eitel, he goes invulnerable and gets knocked down. Then you have to finish Eitel off, after which Zamon stands up for the last 10% of his health (or so).

EDIT: Just remembered another NPC who dies but miraculously returns alive:
, who dies - even in dialogue - during Season 2.

Just because you have to defeat Eitel first doesn't mean you killed him, remember the trial is "by combat", not "to the death". Interestingly enough, it is never explicitly stated you killed Zamon either, only that he died. That statement comes from Anise, the spymaster of Kryta, known for her deceptions, and maybe the second most powerful Mesmer in the world, next to Jennah herself. (... and who never checked the bodies. In fact, unless you choose her as your Second, she doesn't interact with them at all! how could she know whether or not Zamon was dead and not simply defeated?) Of course, the obvious assumption is that you beat Zamon to death along with his second, because you attacked them and they went down. It's so obvious that nobody would think to question it, which makes it easy for someone like Anise to intervene with her abilities and either a) kill him herself, for whatever reason, or b) recover and interrogate the "dead" minister before killing him. But maybe that gets too deep into "tinfoil hat" territory...

Morning is even easier to explain: It's not the same "Morning". Sure, she looks the same and says some of the same lines (because she has the same job), but other than that, there is nothing indicating this Morning is the same girl who died. Of course, nobody mentions she isn't the same girl either, but...

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@"Trise.2865" said:Just because you have to defeat Eitel first doesn't mean you killed him, remember the trial is "by combat", not "to the death". Interestingly enough, it is never explicitly stated you killed Zamon either, only that he died. That statement comes from Anise, the spymaster of Kryta, known for her deceptions, and maybe the second most powerful Mesmer in the world, next to Jennah herself. (... and who never checked the bodies. In fact, unless you choose her as your Second, she doesn't interact with them at all! how could she know whether or not Zamon was dead and not simply defeated?) Of course, the obvious assumption is that you beat Zamon to death along with his second, because you attacked them and they went down. It's so obvious that nobody would think to question it, which makes it easy for someone like Anise to intervene with her abilities and either a) kill him herself, for whatever reason, or b) recover and interrogate the "dead" minister before killing him. But maybe that gets too deep into "tinfoil hat" territory...

Morning is even easier to explain: It's not the same "Morning". Sure, she looks the same and says some of the same lines (because she has the same job), but other than that, there is nothing indicating this Morning is the same girl who died. Of course, nobody mentions she isn't the same girl either, but...

Trial by combat, in this case is literally to the death. The way it ends is by Zamon, or the PC being dead, then and there.

It's literally "If Zamon wins, he is innocent and cannot be tried for this specific crime again. If PC wins, Zamon was guilty." If Zamon wins, PC is dead. if PC wins, Zamon is dead. Anise does explicitly bring up the fact that Caudecus is the one who would know about the ancient law (Where Zamon had shown zero inclination to researching it), and thus likely used it as a way to immediately close up all loose ends regarding this. If Zamon had actually won (probably used the Norn to try to rig the fight in a way), it's case closed and legally Anise and Jennah cannot do a single thing about it, and have to close all investigations. If PC won, Zamon is declared guilty and the investigation and case is closed as well, plus Zamon is dead and thus cannot be questioned any further.

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@"Trise.2865" said:Just because you have to defeat Eitel first doesn't mean you killed him, remember the trial is "by combat", not "to the death". Interestingly enough, it is never explicitly stated you killed Zamon either, only that he died.

When we fight them, we bring their health to 0, and they have a death animation. When the game wants to show that NPCs get defeated by not killed, they are either reviveable (if allied), or kept at ~5% health and use the knocked down or sleeping animations (and made allied / invulnerable). Except for Eitel, I've never seen a case other than showing that.

Plus, traditionally, trial by combat is to the death.

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