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Reaper Soul Eater Healing


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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

Um ... not sure that's true ...

To be fair, the healing you get from Soul Reaper NOW is STILL way better than how it worked when it just gave a flat 200 HP and it's method of healing supports a kitten out DPS approach to play, not some stupid Healing power hybrid build. The bottomline is that if you need it, it's good. if you don't, you play decimate. You couldn't ask for a better choice of traits in Reaper master column. One is totally DPS .. .the other is just more sustain if you need it in the SAME DPs build.

Not sure your statement is true either ...

Remember that the previous version got you 200 hp for just holding the weapon and 0.5% life force per second.Some necromancer attacks depending on the weapon take longer than a second and or hitting a single target will not net you 200 hp before your damage rampsBecause its necro your damage does not ramp as instantly or as fast as other professions not to mention the life force gain is not there either which could be regarded as more health or more shroud up time depending on the situation. And the 20% cooldown reduction is gone too. I spent alot of time using the old soul eater before it got changed specifically in pvp if you are curious and ill tell you right now 220hp per second is good bit of sustain when you are kiting a foe, not specifically able to make attacks or avoiding attacks vs something that requires you to attack in melee range.

to call it "Better" possible under very niche situations but it still requires you to attack with some of the slowest weapons in the game in melee range.

Dagger is the slowest dagger in the game on necro and it has no fearful offensive pressure like spellbreakers leaps and quick shank stun, Greatsword is the slowest greatsword in the game and does not specifically hit any harder than any other professions greatswords.

to call it "Way better" is a bit silly (especially from a pvp perspective) in pvp this trait maybe at anytime gave you hp equivalent to running blood magic remember that people dont run glass cannon builds in pvp all the time. Not only is your personal damage lower as a result other characters are also much tougher and take less damage resulting in lesser healing from this triat you cant compare it with the heal numbers you might be use to seeing in say pve where every auto swing is 12k damage

In pve meh its probably still better (provide you hit a cluster of mobs with grave digger or something)

You shouldn't use terms like QQ like its cute because its not. Dont end a serious conversation with a silly passive aggressive taunt.

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The previous soul eater was better not to mention they butchered the greatsword pull they increased the distance and fixed the instagib combo when the claws would hit the same target more then once. At the same time the greatsword pull has become less reliable before it would quickly reach the target and pull them now pull is clunky and it takes longer for the claws to return meaning its easier to dodge and easier to fail because of design. Life steal and heal on hit is cool but at the same time make the class less clunky so that healing can be achieved in pvp. Not sure why Reaper greatsword is melee focused anyway reapers shroud is already enough playstyle change. Everything but the auto attack should have been atleast a midrange ability in the first place.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:It's still okay for a master trait. Reaper is just forced back to run paladin amulet if you plan to be competitive at duells. Just don't even try at marauder...

Dark Path/Pursuit is actually pretty good. If the autoattack wasn't that dull. I can not play core because of that crappy autoattack. It kills all the fun. the rest of core shroud is okay now and core has the most build diversity of all necro specialisations.

You only talk about PvP. But the numbers of players there is pretty low in comparison to PvE, and the impact there is almost negligible, since you get forced to play Scourge anyway at some point.

Um ... not sure that's true ...

To be fair, the healing you get from Soul Reaper NOW is STILL way better than how it worked when it just gave a flat 200 HP and it's method of healing supports a kitten out DPS approach to play, not some stupid Healing power hybrid build. The bottomline is that if you need it, it's good. if you don't, you play decimate. You couldn't ask for a better choice of traits in Reaper master column. One is totally DPS .. .the other is just more sustain if you need it in the SAME DPs build.

Not sure your statement is true either ...

It's more true than anything the OP has said .. but I don't see you coming down on him. How about we be a little more objective. If you ACTUALLY want change, you're going to be JUST as critical to his statements.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

True, but that’s two things reaper had unique about them they removed, Chill damage (still my favourite trait) and heal in shroud, i believe one reaper grandmaster heals when you Apply a boon if you are in shroud, and seeing as there are only two “boons” in shroud which are short duration stability and might on auto attack if you take spite. This sort of shows that there is an “idea” to heal in shroud, but the severe lack of boon application outside of spite while in shroud makes it very bad to take unless you just want to build shroud quickly, so reaper has only one “good” grandmaster in my opinion, as it is no longer Condi focused so bleed on chill and a Slow chill at that, a minor heal in specific circumstances, or a flat shroud DPS boost. Personally i feel until they revamp/rework the two grandmasters to fit the reaper’s physical/hinderance theme instead of a no longer relevant condition theme (although you can be a bleed and burn reaper / fire and ice, it is not as condition “heavy” as scourge, and even then scourge only gets one more common condition of torment)

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Hey, don't get me wrong ... I'm not entirely pleased that some of the unique feel of Reaper has been lost to appease Meta pushers. That's a different thread that I think lots of haters would chime in on because it advocates a DPS nerf to get back to the original marketing theme ideas we were fed for Reaper when HoT was released. I think Reaper is a great example of what we LOSE when Anet appeals to fringe elements that this game wasn't designed around. Let's not go there.

If there was an idea to heal in shroud, I believe that it wasn't developed enough to see it as a 'unique feel' thing to the reaper. Even if that's the case, I would never wanted to have seen it implemented in the way Soul Reaper did it; it was simply inappropriate. IF anything, I think the lifesteal would have made way more sense.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.-Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.-Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper-Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge-Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.-Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.-Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper-Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge-Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

Maybe ... that's still not a reason to allow them to have OPed healing on a Master trait while in shroud.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.-Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.-Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper-Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge-Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

Maybe ... that's still not a reason to allow them to have OPed healing on a Master trait while in shroud.

You had to build glassy to get high healing out of it though. That seems like an obvious weakness to me, which indicates it couldn't be overpowered.

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You forget that there are other DPS classes with higher damage and sustain. So the changes are going in the wrong direction. In most areas you already take Scourge instead of Reaper. Should Anet really take away the last of Reaper's identity without any compensation? I don't want to be forced to play Scourge everywhere.

No I'm not ... that doesn't matter; if you look at the history of changes in this game, it's NEVER mattered. The changes are inline with the theme of the class. Furthermore, Soul Eater healing in shroud was not reaper's 'identity' and if you are taking Scourge over Reaper in most areas, you need to play Reaper better. Finally, no one is going to force you to play Scourge, even meta-loving people.

Anything else?

Just popped in to ask - wouldn’t the only way to heal in shroud aside from some useless DM grandmaster be the Reaper’s Unique thing? Slow and Unkillable, but limited to melee range for best damage/survivability.

Sure ... but MANY things could be Reaper's 'unique' thing and healing in shroud isn't necessarily the only way to accomplish slow and unkillable either.

I mean, there isn't much value in talking about some idea that could be that clearly Anet thinks shouldn't be.

Well. Right now, reapers don't have anything unique to them.-Dmg? Every class does huge dmg.-Survivability? Even scourge is more durable than reaper-Corrupts? Any other class will corrupt more than reaper. If you look at wvw, in shorter fights always warriors are top boon removers, else scourge-Mobility? Necro in general has worst mobility in game...

Yes, some other classes lack Identity as well. But look at firebrand, scrapper,... scourge. Very unique kits.

Maybe ... that's still not a reason to allow them to have OPed healing on a Master trait while in shroud.

You had to build glassy to get high healing out of it though. That seems like an obvious weakness to me, which indicates it couldn't be overpowered.

The problem is that this always goes back to the theme of the class. The strength or weakness of a thing has nothing to do with whether a class should have it or not.

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@Trollocks.5084 said:Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Trollocks.5084 said:Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

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@Kuulpb.5412 said:

@Trollocks.5084 said:Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Trollocks.5084 said:Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

The reason people are bothered is double standards remember when I was asking about zerker and people were angry about its sustain nerfed? reaper is melee and slow with no invulns very little to no mobility and what sustain it had got nerfed.

Mobility and sustain are important in pvp, I bet in pve reaper will be fine, but for pvp this really hurts.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Trollocks.5084 said:Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

“Preserve theme” cough then why do thieves have portal and sanctuary?

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@Kuulpb.5412 said:

@Trollocks.5084 said:Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

“Preserve theme”
cough
then why do thieves have portal and sanctuary?

Is there a comprehension problem here? Here, let me just copy and paste in my previous post:

Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

I mean ... how does that not satisfy your question?

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Trollocks.5084 said:Just stop, Obtena. You're not as much of an expert on all things as you think you are.

You don't need to be expert to see how Anet operates. But OK, you think I'm wrong. Here is your chance to tell us how all this works ... I've never claimed to be the expert but if you want to put down the ideas I have because I'm not an expert, you better step up and explain what yours are because apparently you are.

i'm open to criticism of my ideas ... but you better bring your game if you are going to give it.

I think his issue was you mentioning it “always goes back to the theme of the profession” but that’s kind of obviously not the caae with the new thief preparations, how is it thiefy to make a dome of magic that lets people see you but not enter? What about an area that lets you portal other people like a mesmer?

Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

“Preserve theme”
cough
then why do thieves have portal and sanctuary?

Is there a comprehension problem here? Here, let me just copy and paste in my previous post:

Hey, there are exceptions but I don't think it's unreasonable at this point to think that most changes are due to Anet's desire to preserve theme ... and Shroud healing removed from Soul Eater appears to be one of them.

I mean ... how does that not satisfy your question?
  • Anet’s desire to preserve theme - my comment shows there IS no theme.
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No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

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@Obtena.7952 said:No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

At this point you might as well just say Anet does what they like and we should shut up and be happy about it.

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@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

At this point you might as well just say Anet does what they like and we should shut up and be happy about it.

No one said you can't complain, just don't be confused about the game changes if you want to deny that theme is an important factor when they make them.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, your comment shows there are exceptions, which is clear from my post ... or that Anet controls what the theme is, not players.

I personally don't see a reason thief can't have those things. Portal actually makes LOTS of sense to me based on my impression of the theme of a thief, but that's really a moot point anyways.

You can deny that theme is really important if you like but as long as you do so, you can't really be surprised you don't understand most of the changes they make.

At this point you might as well just say Anet does what they like and we should shut up and be happy about it.

No one said you can't complain, just don't be confused about the game changes if you want to deny that theme is an important factor when they make them.

"Theme is an important factor until it isn't".

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