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“Not like WoW”? False, this game is competing with WoW


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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

This game is still far more casual than WoW. Are you grinding a completely new set of gear every 6 months? Is your character far below max level cap because you took a 3 year break? Everything you mention is a nice to have. Heck you can even get legendaries without raiding if you can stand a pvp grind with terrible matchmaking. And you keep those legendaries forever even of a new expansion comes out. The ones i earned in legion are useless now.

In contrast, I left GW2for 2 to 3 years and i can still play my characters and jump straight into end game activities.

Also this game offers far more permanent, yet slow progression.

It's casual in just the same ways that wow is. And by the same token it's just as demanding as wow though. You now have to put a lot of time and effort in in order to get certain things you want. The major difference between wow(especially wow of old) and gw2 is that it's possible now, assuming one has the means, to shorten the way by legitimately(as in not going to third party gold selling sites) throwing money at the problem via gem purchases, conversions to gold, and then purchasing certain necessary items on the Black Lion Exchange.

Much of this grinding depends on what part of the game you're invested in. GW2 is by no means monolithic- consisting of several game modes now. If you wish to be your best(read be included) in either high tier fractals, raiding, or in competitive modes(mostly WvW) then you end up chasing metas and those are dictated by the ever changing balancing and mechanics introductions made by ANet's development teams. New metas require new gearing even if it's only on the level of exotics(much of it demanding ascended and infused equipment) and this is a song and dance that's repeated as often as those metas change. Many new metas require armour and weapon stat combinations found only via grinding certain maps in order to craft them. And while it could be argued that yes, the community enforces the metas, when it comes to metas in general ANet still lays the egg first, so to speak.

They know the community's temperament in regard to metas and still continue to develop the majority of their content with metas in mind(even if it's only the means to acquire the gear to meet them). What's more they've also backpedaled on their stances regarding the trinity and third party programmes which is no small thing because most raiding requires it and many raiders demand it and they(ANet) for whatever reason want a piece of that demographic.

It's true that if all you ever want to do is face roll on open maps and collect your bags from meta events you shouldn't have to change much. If, however, you want something more beyond that limited vision of GW2 then your hand is indeed forced.

So could we please not perpetuate this myth that there is no grinding required in GW2? At best it's only a half truth.

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Casual play (like open world) is not a limited version of GW2; it is the core of the game. High tier fractals and raids are the niche portions of GW2 and only a small percentage of players do them. That these two modes require grinding to get good gears is irrelevant since casual play is the heart of GW2’s design, and make up the vast majority of contents. Grinding gears for the vast majority of GW2 contents is simply an option for players who want to put in the time. This is not a half-truth. It is true for the vast majority of the game and the heart of its design.

WoW is designed around vertical progression and is fundamentally different from GW2. In WoW, if players do not grind gears, they’re not locked out of only niche stuff; they’re locked out from experiencing the heart of the game’s design, which is based around grinding for better and better gears to do new contents.

If you don’t grind for gears in WoW, you experience so little of the game because the game is designed around vertical progression. If you don’t grind for gears in GW2, you only miss out on niche modes because the vast majority of the game is designed around casual play that do not require grinded gears.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.
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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

there is a key fundamental difference between wow and guild wars 2 that means it will never appeal to several significant segments of the market - blizzards monitory model is all about compelling the player to keeu up with the ever increasing power curve. If you fall behind the power curve your gameplay is impacted.

Anet recognised this as a detrimental aspect of mmorpg and addressed it.

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@"Vayne.8563" said:> The difference is skin grind is 100% completely optional. Gear grind is required if you want to do content. I'd say that makes a world of difference. As long as I don't feel I have to grind to "catch up" it doesn't matter if grind exists in the game. I'm not a grinder, I just play a lot, but I play all different things all the time. Eventually I get everything I need, usually without grinding.

Really, well I beg to disagree because every few months the balance teams to totally screws up or remakes a spec forcing you to grind out the gear to fix what they've broken or at the very least grind out the mats or gold to change the gear, weapons and accessories, etc to make you efficient as you once were. It's vertical progression cleverly disguised as horizontal. Not to mention the fact the balance team has leaned more and more towards trinity, soft today but what does tomorrow bring?Yes the mounts differ but they are still mounts, rendering most way-points irrelevant and fast travel just like WoW. Raids are raids regardless of how people try to make distinctively different and the armor isn't better stat wise but it does offer some perks as well as looks (ugly or not). GW2 raids includes gear you cannot get any other way which invokes the same old elitist class separation rewarding one style of player over others fostering the same special snowflake crap WoW was founded on. As far as raids not locking you out of content, raids, the loot from it are still held away from those who don't like raiding.

This may not be as similar to WoW as let's say ESO but the trend in the last 3 years has brought this far closer than what it was when it launched and anyone denying that is just turning a blind eye to reality!

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@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:> The difference is skin grind is 100% completely optional. Gear grind is required if you want to do content. I'd say that makes a world of difference. As long as I don't feel I have to grind to "catch up" it doesn't matter if grind exists in the game. I'm not a grinder, I just play a lot, but I play all different things all the time. Eventually I get everything I need, usually without grinding.

Really, well I beg to disagree because every few months the balance teams to totally screws up or remakes a spec forcing you to grind out the gear to fix what they've broken or at the very least grind out the mats or gold to change the gear, weapons and accessories, etc to make you efficient as you once were. It's vertical progression cleverly disguised as horizontal. Not to mention the fact the balance team has leaned more and more towards trinity, soft today but what does tomorrow bring?Yes the mounts differ but they are still mounts, rendering most way-points irrelevant and fast travel just like WoW. Raids are raids regardless of how people try to make distinctively different and the armor isn't better stat wise but it does offer some perks as well as looks (ugly or not). GW2 raids includes gear you cannot get any other way which invokes the same old elitist class separation rewarding one style of player over others fostering the same special snowflake kitten WoW was founded on. As far as raids not locking you out of content, raids, the loot from it are still held away from those who don't like raiding.

This may not be as similar to WoW as let's say ESO but the trend in the last 3 years has brought this far closer than what it was when it launched and anyone denying that is just turning a blind eye to reality!

You can disagree all you want. But since the only thing full ascended gear would actually be required for is T4 Fractals (and even then it's not absolutely required) it's still a voluntary goal. I mean most of my character have easily farmed ascended trinkets, with some ascended weapons (many from collections). Most of my characters are running around in exotic armor, and they're doing fine in all the content. That just doesn't work on other games. Here technique is as important, if not more important than mere stats.

Furthermore it's very cheap to respec ascended armor and weapons once you have them. So yeah, I'd have to disagree on this one.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

there is a key fundamental difference between wow and guild wars 2 that means it will never appeal to several significant segments of the market - blizzards monitory model is all about compelling the player to keeu up with the ever increasing power curve. If you fall behind the power curve your gameplay is impacted.

Anet recognised this as a detrimental aspect of mmorpg and addressed it.

Yes, they addressed it with core... but everything since HoT has been Grind Wars 2.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

LOL, your obstenance is showing. The only reason not ALL restaurants are competing is that their locations are far from one another. MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

LOL, your obstenance is showing. The only reason not ALL restaurants are competing is that their locations are far from one another. MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Different markets though, thats the difference. If i want Italian food i go to an Italian restaurant. if i want a pvp orientated game i play WOT or WOWS not GW2. If i want a relaxed way to spend a day i play GW2 and not WOT or WOWS.

Are they competing for my playtime, sure, but it depends on what im in the mood for. Not everybody is going to be into every game, they are trying to grab and hold onto those who have no interest in the other competition. WOW is so different from GW2 ill never play it, ive tried it once(two weeks) never went back.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

LOL, your obstenance is showing. The only reason not ALL restaurants are competing is that their locations are far from one another. MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Different markets though, thats the difference. If i want Italian food i go to an Italian restaurant. if i want a pvp orientated game i play WOT or WOWS not GW2. If i want a relaxed way to spend a day i play GW2 and not WOT or WOWS.

Are they competing for my playtime, sure, but it depends on what im in the mood for. Not everybody is going to be into every game, they are trying to grab and hold onto those who have no interest in the other competition. WOW is so different from GW2 ill never play it, ive tried it once(two weeks) never went back.

Yeah, grinding for a mount. So different.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Mortifera.6138OK said:MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Just because all MMO's are in the interweb doesn't mean they all compete. They serve different markets. You could have two restaurants side by side that wouldn't compete because they serve two completely different markets.

Yes, it does. For example? they could compete because the couple looking for Italian good night change their mind when they see the better pricing of Chinese food.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138OK said:MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Just because all MMO's are in the interweb doesn't mean they all compete. They serve different markets. You could have two restaurants side by side that wouldn't compete because they serve two completely different markets.

Yes, it does. For example? they could compete because the couple looking for Italian good night change their mind when they see the better pricing of Chinese food.

No, I could build two restaurants right beside each other that wouldn't compete because they serve two different markets. That's not debatable. It's a true fact. NOT ALL things compete, even if they are similar things.

That's why GW2 is here ... it serves a specific market. There is some overlap with what it does with other MMO's but it does it in a way that appeals to a specific market that was underserved.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

LOL, your obstenance is showing. The only reason not ALL restaurants are competing is that their locations are far from one another. MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Different markets though, thats the difference. If i want Italian food i go to an Italian restaurant. if i want a pvp orientated game i play WOT or WOWS not GW2. If i want a relaxed way to spend a day i play GW2 and not WOT or WOWS.

Are they competing for my playtime, sure, but it depends on what im in the mood for. Not everybody is going to be into every game, they are trying to grab and hold onto those who have no interest in the other competition. WOW is so different from GW2 ill never play it, ive tried it once(two weeks) never went back.

Yeah, grinding for a mount. So different.

@Mortifera.6138OK said:MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Just because all MMO's are in the interweb doesn't mean they all compete. They serve different markets. You could have two restaurants side by side that wouldn't compete because they serve two completely different markets.

Yes, it does. For example? they could compete because the couple looking for Italian good night change their mind when they see the better pricing of Chinese food.

No, I could build two restaurants right beside each other that wouldn't compete because they serve two different markets. That's not debatable. It's a true fact.

What happens when someone meets the criteria for both markets? They have to choose. Oh, and I didn’t know facts could be anything but true.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

LOL, your obstenance is showing. The only reason not ALL restaurants are competing is that their locations are far from one another. MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Different markets though, thats the difference. If i want Italian food i go to an Italian restaurant. if i want a pvp orientated game i play WOT or WOWS not GW2. If i want a relaxed way to spend a day i play GW2 and not WOT or WOWS.

Are they competing for my playtime, sure, but it depends on what im in the mood for. Not everybody is going to be into every game, they are trying to grab and hold onto those who have no interest in the other competition. WOW is so different from GW2 ill never play it, ive tried it once(two weeks) never went back.

Yeah, grinding for a mount. So different.

@Mortifera.6138OK said:MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Just because all MMO's are in the interweb doesn't mean they all compete. They serve different markets. You could have two restaurants side by side that wouldn't compete because they serve two completely different markets.

Yes, it does. For example? they could compete because the couple looking for Italian good night change their mind when they see the better pricing of Chinese food.

No, I could build two restaurants right beside each other that wouldn't compete because they serve two different markets. That's not debatable. It's a true fact.

What happens when someone meets the criteria for both markets? They have to choose. Oh, and I didn’t know facts could be anything but true.

What about it? Then those people make a choice. That doesn't make what I said any less true. ... and yes, the way you are portraying yourself here ... it seems that you could be one of those people that dispute facts.
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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

LOL, your obstenance is showing. The only reason not ALL restaurants are competing is that their locations are far from one another. MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Different markets though, thats the difference. If i want Italian food i go to an Italian restaurant. if i want a pvp orientated game i play WOT or WOWS not GW2. If i want a relaxed way to spend a day i play GW2 and not WOT or WOWS.

Are they competing for my playtime, sure, but it depends on what im in the mood for. Not everybody is going to be into every game, they are trying to grab and hold onto those who have no interest in the other competition. WOW is so different from GW2 ill never play it, ive tried it once(two weeks) never went back.

Yeah, grinding for a mount. So different.

@Mortifera.6138OK said:MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Just because all MMO's are in the interweb doesn't mean they all compete. They serve different markets. You could have two restaurants side by side that wouldn't compete because they serve two completely different markets.

Yes, it does. For example? they could compete because the couple looking for Italian good night change their mind when they see the better pricing of Chinese food.

No, I could build two restaurants right beside each other that wouldn't compete because they serve two different markets. That's not debatable. It's a true fact.

What happens when someone meets the criteria for both markets? They have to choose. Oh, and I didn’t know facts could be anything but true.

What about it? Then those people make a choice. That doesn't make what I said any less true. ... and yes, the way you are portraying yourself here ... it seems that you could be one of those people that dispute facts.

The person might like both Italian and Chinese food. In which case, the restaurants have to compete for him. Just like most MMO gamers aren’t looking for an action MMO or a strategic MMO, they’re just looking for a (good) MMO. Most people here came from WoW. Yes, they are competing.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:The person might like both Italian and Chinese food. In which case, the restaurants have to compete for him. Just like most MMO gamers aren’t looking for an action MMO or a strategic MMO, they’re just looking for a (good) MMO. Most people here came from WoW. Yes, they are competing.

Again, you are not listening to what I'm telling you ... not all restaurants compete just because they are restaurants. That's not even an exclusive example. It's the same with any consumer good ... and it's the same with MMO's ... they don't all compete just because they are MMO's ... EVEN if you want to narrow your field with qualifiers like 'action' or 'strategic'. There are hundreds of examples you can think of to illustrate this.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:I can’t believe people still say this game is not like WoW. That it caters to a different audience. That may have been true at one point, but everything since HoT has been to make this game more like WoW. They catered to hardcore players, added raids, added mounts, added grind for legendary gears, added the Skyscale grind.... No one even talks about the Manifesto anymore. So yes, this game is like WoW. Yes, they are competing.

These threads don't make sense ... if GW2 loved WoW so much, why are they here?

Besides similarities you find still don't mean they target the same market ... THAT is what matters when you compare their competition.

I mean, you thread is like saying all restaurants compete because they sell food that is cooked and served to you. Well, obviously that's a very superficial assessment.

No, GW doesn't compete with WoW to a great extent; their markets are different. That's why GW2 even took off in the first place.

Yes, they took off for being different, but everything they’ve added since HoT has made them more like WoW. Please read my OP before commenting.

They still don't appeal to the same market ... Please read MY posts before commenting.

I did read your post and you are wrong, restaurants do compete.

No, you are wrong ... I didn't say restaurants don't compete. I said ALL restaurants don't compete. They can serve different markets, still be restaurants and still not compete with each other. Just like GW2 serves a different market than WoW.

LOL, your obstenance is showing. The only reason not ALL restaurants are competing is that their locations are far from one another. MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Different markets though, thats the difference. If i want Italian food i go to an Italian restaurant. if i want a pvp orientated game i play WOT or WOWS not GW2. If i want a relaxed way to spend a day i play GW2 and not WOT or WOWS.

Are they competing for my playtime, sure, but it depends on what im in the mood for. Not everybody is going to be into every game, they are trying to grab and hold onto those who have no interest in the other competition. WOW is so different from GW2 ill never play it, ive tried it once(two weeks) never went back.

Yeah, grinding for a mount. So different.

@Mortifera.6138OK said:MMOs are all playable on the interwebs, they are ALL competing.

Just because all MMO's are in the interweb doesn't mean they all compete. They serve different markets. You could have two restaurants side by side that wouldn't compete because they serve two completely different markets.

Yes, it does. For example? they could compete because the couple looking for Italian good night change their mind when they see the better pricing of Chinese food.

No, I could build two restaurants right beside each other that wouldn't compete because they serve two different markets. That's not debatable. It's a true fact.

What happens when someone meets the criteria for both markets? They have to choose. Oh, and I didn’t know facts could be anything but true.

over time a particular customer will have a preference for 1 type of restaurant over another, but may dabble in the alternate for a change. If I want to play the gear = power game I will dabble in wow, but ultimately I don't want gear to determine my gameplay options so I prefer gw2. Some prefer the former.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:The person might like both Italian and Chinese food. In which case, the restaurants have to compete for him. Just like most MMO gamers aren’t looking for an action MMO or a strategic MMO, they’re just looking for a (good) MMO. Most people here came from WoW. Yes, they are competing.

Again, you are not listening to what I'm telling you ... not all restaurants compete just because they are restaurants. That's not even an exclusive example. It's the same with any consumer good ... and it's the same with MMO's ... they don't all compete just because they are MMO's.

Yes, they do compete just because they are MMOs.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:The person might like both Italian and Chinese food. In which case, the restaurants have to compete for him. Just like most MMO gamers aren’t looking for an action MMO or a strategic MMO, they’re just looking for a (good) MMO. Most people here came from WoW. Yes, they are competing.

Again, you are not listening to what I'm telling you ... not all restaurants compete just because they are restaurants. That's not even an exclusive example. It's the same with any consumer good ... and it's the same with MMO's ... they don't all compete just because they are MMO's.

Yes, they do compete just because they are MMOs.

If you are going to generalise then you would be as well saying all types of game compete for your time. But thus is about player type versus gameplay on offer, and gw2 and wow have different target audiences in mind.

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@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:The person might like both Italian and Chinese food. In which case, the restaurants have to compete for him. Just like most MMO gamers aren’t looking for an action MMO or a strategic MMO, they’re just looking for a (good) MMO. Most people here came from WoW. Yes, they are competing.

Again, you are not listening to what I'm telling you ... not all restaurants compete just because they are restaurants. That's not even an exclusive example. It's the same with any consumer good ... and it's the same with MMO's ... they don't all compete just because they are MMO's.

Yes, they do compete just because they are MMOs.

No, that's absolutely wrong. There are way more factors that determine if something competes within an industry. It's not enough to simply say everything in a specific industry competes because they are all in an industry. There are hundreds of example of this and the fact you don't think of a single one to convince yourself just indicates that you are being stubborn and argumentative.

You're being way to general ... based on your criteria, I could claim that ANYTHING that takes my time to do competes with GW2.

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