Is Support Chrono dead?

[Firebeard.1746]

So I was trying to play support chrono on my first raid ever and I obviously can't strictly follow the snow crows build for mesmer because it relies on dry shattering. I was having trouble keeping the alacrity boon up, granted my gear isn't quite there, but I was realizing something: without dry shatter, we aren't getting the free alacrity to recharge our wells that would normally happen in the snow crows rotation. Has anyone here successfully kept boons up post patch on their own, I'm asking because I assume there's far more experienced chronos here? I thought that before a single experienced chrono could do this. Is this the age of the firebrigade? Or do you think that we've entered the age of 2 chronos required to keep alacrity up?

[Opopanax.1803]

It sounds like you should get your gear up to spec.before speculating about the sky falling.

[Firebeard.1746]

@Opopanax.1803 said:It sounds like you should get your gear up to spec.before speculating about the sky falling.

There's nothing wrong with me asking so I know whether or not it's worth it. And there's nothing wrong with my assesment that there's far less free alacrity now that we need clones to get the alacrity from shatters. Maybe you should read posts all the way before assuming stuff. I openly admitted I'm not in a place to make the assesment for sure and I'm asking for help knowing if my class is worth playing.

[Firebeard.1746]

So based on conversations on raid training discords, it looks like they're fine and snow crows rotation is bork.

[aetemes.2603]

How much boon duration do you have...I mean obviously that matters. I personally think upkeep on my alacrity is higher if I just save my clones for frustration (rewind) but I don't think you'd need to do that anyways.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Firebeard.1746 said:So based on conversations on raid training discords, it looks like they're fine and snow crows rotation is bork.

Snowcrows rotation is not updated yet.

You pretty much need full diviner or other concentration gear on chrono with concentration food. This counts double if both chronos are not in sync.

Support chrono still works, it just got a lot more clunky and unfun to play.

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

in PvP lobby fighting (NPC classes) i was able to maintain alacrity and this is the build and utility skillsthe reason behind this that i was able to create clones over and over and shatter them... Now in WvW/PvP i couldn't maintain 3 clones for more than 1 second, resulting to not get it on first place. So in conclusion This build has reduced Chronomancer damage to spam clones, however clones don't get protection. And by protection i mean the ability to save them from lethal blow as in mirage cloaking.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I actually did some tests with this. On a golem I managed to maintain permanent alacrity and quickness on myself, with 20 seconds remaining for each boon once the golem was killed.

However, this was done on a nearly full diviner chrono (only the off-hand weapon is bererker, because I am cheap and lazy). The snowcrow's spec is designed to be really tight with the rotation, so my advice is to be more liberal with it and go for full boon duration. Though support chrono is harder to play, it is the role that got hurt the least with these updates.

[Firebeard.1746]

@"Hiraga Taichiru.1580" said:in PvP lobby fighting (NPC classes) i was able to maintain alacrity and this is the build and utility skillsthe reason behind this that i was able to create clones over and over and shatter them... Now in WvW/PvP i couldn't maintain 3 clones for more than 1 second, resulting to not get it on first place. So in conclusion This build has reduced Chronomancer damage to spam clones, however clones don't get protection. And by protection i mean the ability to save them from lethal blow as in mirage cloaking.

Taking the trait that gives illusion on dodge nerfs sword damage output. So if i take your build, it is a nerf albeit not to the boons. Snowcrows has you grabbing top trait on final tier. Also your utility skills don't include the skill that provides quickness and do you raid with illusions instead of inspiration?

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

i don't raid with chrono as its better to have 2 fire brands than 1 firebrand and chrono , if u get what i mean. also keep in mind if you are going for support chrono [signet of Inspiration] was the best choice for support chrono, however it got nerfed to a point where using wells to grant [Alacrity] or [Quickness] is much better and much longer. Now if you are talking about some class which gives people boons and you are there just to extend the duration (which in best case extending duration will be max of 9 seconds) of the boons then yes in this case its better, but that only if the team members are within the range of 600 GW2 unit.

PS: keep in mind the build i showed you is the only way a chronomancer can maintain alacrity for long time and for him only, i wasn't focusing on supporting anyone, just myself

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Hiraga Taichiru.1580" said:i don't raid with chrono as its better to have 2 fire brands than 1 firebrand and chrono , if u get what i mean. also keep in mind if you are going for support chrono [signet of Inspiration] was the best choice for support chrono, however it got nerfed to a point where using wells to grant [Alacrity] or [Quickness] is much better and much longer. Now if you are talking about some class which gives people boons and you are there just to extend the duration (which in best case extending duration will be max of 9 seconds) of the boons then yes in this case its better, but that only if the team members are within the range of 600 GW2 unit.

PS: keep in mind the build i showed you is the only way a chronomancer can maintain alacrity for long time and for him only, i wasn't focusing on supporting anyone, just myself

SoI is a 3 second boon duration increase on a 20 second timer, and a 6 second boon duration increase when used within CS. It would absolutely see use over blink or Mirror Images in PvE (also Moa is not seeing ANY use currently, only Gravity Well for cc bars). So you having issues with alacrity uptime is directly related to you using incorrect skills in your build (if for PvE).

Yes, chrono requires players to stack in his wells. Current support chronos run both wells and SoI with the option to drop WoA when using alternating Timewarp (from both chronos).

The order in which utility skills get replaced for support chrono is:

• WoA goes first, loss of quickness uptime can be compensated by CSed Timewarp but requires 2 chronos
• WoR in case of an alacrigrade being present in raid (druid, chrono, firebrigade composition)
• SoI in case 2 utility slots need to be replaced but no alacrigrade is present

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I actually did some tests with this. On a golem I managed to maintain permanent alacrity and quickness on myself, with 20 seconds remaining for each boon once the golem was killed.

However, this was done on a nearly full diviner chrono (only the off-hand weapon is bererker, because I am cheap and lazy). The snowcrow's spec is designed to be really tight with the rotation, so my advice is to be more liberal with it and go for full boon duration. Though support chrono is harder to play, it is the role that got hurt the least with these updates.

Yes, the snowcrows builds are designed for maximum performance and very good play. Players not on that level should get more boon duration to compensate for both personal mistakes as well as not perfect grouping of group members.

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

SoI is a 3 second boon duration increase on a 20 second timer, and a 6 second boon duration increase when used within CS. It would absolutely see use over blink or Mirror Images in PvE (also Moa is not seeing ANY use currently, only Gravity Well for cc bars). So you having issues with alacrity uptime is directly related to you using incorrect skills in your build (if for PvE).Moa is not used which is correct, however no elite skill can gives alacrity so it doesn't matter really what elite i am using. To maintain alacrity u need shatter skills (even with the earliest chrono support when the class was shining). and to be able to use shatter , u need clones and WoR also mimic. the reason im using Mirror is to be able to get clones and the reason im using blink is to add sustainability at critical times.

Yes, chrono requires players to stack in his wells. Current support chronos run both wells and SoI with the option to drop WoA when using alternating Timewarp (from both chronos).

The order in which utility skills get replaced for support chrono is:

• WoA goes first, loss of quickness uptime can be compensated by CSed Timewarp but requires 2 chronos
• WoR in case of an alacrigrade being present in raid (druid, chrono, firebrigade composition)
• SoI in case 2 utility slots need to be replaced but no alacrigrade is present

Yes, but using these skills will not make you maintain alacrity like permanently, which is one of the most important traits in chrono. and by you saying "Both chronos" and "requires 2 chronos" is like you are basically saying this "Chrono cannot be independent" as it is in scrapper/ Firebrand/tempest.

Thanks for giving us some of your thoughts

PS. Yea chrono support in raid is not dead yet, however got nerfed too much.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:

SoI is a 3 second boon duration increase on a 20 second timer, and a 6 second boon duration increase when used within CS. It would absolutely see use over blink or Mirror Images in PvE (also Moa is not seeing ANY use currently, only Gravity Well for cc bars). So you having issues with alacrity uptime is directly related to you using incorrect skills in your build (if for PvE).Moa is not used which is correct, however no elite skill can gives alacrity so it doesn't matter really what elite i am using. To maintain alacrity u need shatter skills (even with the earliest chrono support when the class was shining). and to be able to use shatter , u need clones and WoR also mimic. the reason im using Mirror is to be able to get clones and the reason im using blink is to add sustainability at critical times.

Yes, chrono requires players to stack in his wells. Current support chronos run both wells and SoI with the option to drop WoA when using alternating Timewarp (from both chronos).

SoI on cd even without CS added to cast it twice is more value than Mirror Images in terms of Alacrity uptime to group. So no, you still wouldn't take MI over SoI.

SoI is 3 seconds of alacrity on a 20s cooldown to group. MI is 2 clones on a 30s cooldown which provide 3 seconds of alacrity when shattered to self only.

EDIT: with 2 chronos, forgot to add.

EDIT 2: just did a try run with 81% bd (no food, full diviner) and had no issues keeping up 20+ seconds of alacrity with 2 wells+SoI and Tides of Time until CS was up again

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:

SoI is a 3 second boon duration increase on a 20 second timer, and a 6 second boon duration increase when used within CS. It would absolutely see use over blink or Mirror Images in PvE (also Moa is not seeing ANY use currently, only Gravity Well for cc bars). So you having issues with alacrity uptime is directly related to you using incorrect skills in your build (if for PvE).Moa is not used which is correct, however no elite skill can gives alacrity so it doesn't matter really what elite i am using. To maintain alacrity u need shatter skills (even with the earliest chrono support when the class was shining). and to be able to use shatter , u need clones and WoR also mimic. the reason im using Mirror is to be able to get clones and the reason im using blink is to add sustainability at critical times.

Yes, chrono requires players to stack in his wells. Current support chronos run both wells and SoI with the option to drop WoA when using alternating Timewarp (from both chronos).

SoI on cd even without CS added to cast it twice is more value than Mirror Images in terms of Alacrity uptime to group. So no, you still wouldn't take MI over SoI.

SoI is 3 seconds of alacrity on a 20s cooldown to group. MI is 2 clones on a 30s cooldown which provide 3 seconds of alacrity when shattered to self only.

EDIT: with 2 chronos, forgot to add.

EDIT 2: just did a try run with 81% bd (no food, full diviner) and had no issues keeping up 20+ seconds of alacrity with 2 wells+SoI and Tides of Time until CS was up again

Ok, can you send me your build ?

[Cyninja.2954]

@Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:

SoI is a 3 second boon duration increase on a 20 second timer, and a 6 second boon duration increase when used within CS. It would absolutely see use over blink or Mirror Images in PvE (also Moa is not seeing ANY use currently, only Gravity Well for cc bars). So you having issues with alacrity uptime is directly related to you using incorrect skills in your build (if for PvE).Moa is not used which is correct, however no elite skill can gives alacrity so it doesn't matter really what elite i am using. To maintain alacrity u need shatter skills (even with the earliest chrono support when the class was shining). and to be able to use shatter , u need clones and WoR also mimic. the reason im using Mirror is to be able to get clones and the reason im using blink is to add sustainability at critical times.

Yes, chrono requires players to stack in his wells. Current support chronos run both wells and SoI with the option to drop WoA when using alternating Timewarp (from both chronos).

SoI on cd even without CS added to cast it twice is more value than Mirror Images in terms of Alacrity uptime to group. So no, you still wouldn't take MI over SoI.

SoI is 3 seconds of alacrity on a 20s cooldown to group. MI is 2 clones on a 30s cooldown which provide 3 seconds of alacrity when shattered to self only.

EDIT: with 2 chronos, forgot to add.

EDIT 2: just did a try run with 81% bd (no food, full diviner) and had no issues keeping up 20+ seconds of alacrity with 2 wells+SoI and Tides of Time until CS was up again

Ok, can you send me your build ?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhUQRAse8cnsIC9fi1fCGoBEgiFVjCdBGqrouZn2slMAGhiD-jRSBQBD4EAEYlKEZ/h+qfYiPBgrosCAHEABrE8vq/QKgdHuB-e

Things to note:

• I did the test without food (81.13% bd) on the golem solo, no boons no nothing, just a full rotation from start until CS was up again
• using food the boon duration goes up to 96.26%
• this is also my fractal build (or used to be until we started running Firebrigade) hence why I've built around 80% bd

Rotation used:

• Sword 3, Shield 4, cast WoR and start CS with 2 clones before the well casts, Shield 5, WoA, SoI, Sword 3 again -> CS ends
• place wells on cd, use SoI on cd, Shield 5 on cd, shatter F1 with 3 clones

[SaferMurderweapon.7143]

Support Chrono main AKA the "Unicorn that loves Chronojail".

ESO is pretty fun. Warden feels more like the Chrono I fell in love with than our current ACTUAL "Chrono".

If it can make ME quit mind you Chrono was my reason for playing this game, and if it's not dead already, it will be soon.

[aetemes.2603]

To imply support chrono is fine at buffing alacrity and being a support and just "l2p"....the gameplay is annoying having to dedicate too many gear pieces runes sigils for bd AND awful skills aka wells and soi and a couple of buttons to resest soi is so lame and annoying. So restrictive.

Firebrigade are better because simply they have many functions condensed beyond being able to just buff quick/alacrity. Firebrands insane tomes, and just needs max two utilities and like three diviner pieces...literally not even conc sigils or runes...like it's a joke. Renegade can support beyond just alacrity the buttons on that class do a gazillion thing at the same time...they both are soo forgiving for both the player and the team if you missed a buff dw reapply over and over and you can fill the healer or push damage your "utility" remain widely utility and you can enjoy the game beyond are my buffs up and did some one miss the pixel of the well when it finally decided to actually buff.

This is why chrono is so lame at this point, too many nerfs to apologise for how oppressive it was. Like they made it now that if you want to buff you can do nothing else...so you might as well just play power cause that frees you up to use your utility for other things including soi. They just have this lens of how chrono is in raid and how many would be needed...no regards to gameplay or fun or other game modes just...ugh. Leave it just hanging by its teeth in a raid setting cause that's what the class deserves.

Rune of the chronomancer needs to add insane bd value to quickness and alacrity like why does the firebrand one does that...like seriously what is that?.

Anyways heres my tip on how to enhance alacrity boon duration on your own self...on second thought I won't cause they might nerf the process.