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Stay away from penalty traits..


LaFurion.3167

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I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.

Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.

Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:No, I like them, they make taking an elite and gaining the power it brings to be a risk instead of free candy.

The barrier is just a little weak and needs to be affected by outgoing condi.

But as we all know this will not happen. Patch just dropped and they probably won't tweak it given their history. So now enjoy the -300 vitality, full stop. Fun right?

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@"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.

Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.

Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.

Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update.

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@Chichimec.9364 said:

@"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.

Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.

Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.

Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update.

Yeah.. thats why its balance patch as it was too tanky.

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Hmm, this is from the update notes - "These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight." My scrapper was already a tank-like character. So refocusing the class on "personal barrier applications" was a deliberate nerf because it was too tanky? Ugh!

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@"Chichimec.9364" said:Hmm, this is from the update notes - "These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight." My scrapper was already a tank-like character. So refocusing the class on "personal barrier applications" was a deliberate nerf because it was too tanky? Ugh!

I didn't quite get the tanky explanation either. Seemed a focus on speed and finishers and less on the tanky side of things.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:No, I like them, they make taking an elite and gaining the power it brings to be a risk instead of free candy.

The barrier is just a little weak and needs to be affected by outgoing condi.

I think it needs a minor adjustment. It should absolutely NOT universally be affected by outgoing condition damage AND power damage at the same time. That would make the class, once again, an unstoppable force. They SHOULD keep the -300 vita baseline, move the 20% condition damage reduction baseline, and make two of the grandmasters give you EITHER condi based barrier OR power based barrier. You should never have both at once. That would be insanely broken on any grieving or viper setup.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:No, I like them, they make taking an elite and gaining the power it brings to be a risk instead of free candy.

The barrier is just a little weak and needs to be affected by outgoing condi.

And what power are you talking about that it brings? Scrapper does not bring anything to the table now except for superspeed. Why would anyone equip scrapper instead of another traitline? You could equip tools instead and get a passive stunbreak with superspeed on gadgets/toolkit swap. Scrapper doesn't do anything now. It can't even rez/finisher properly anymore.

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I agree it is a penalty trait and should not exist. There are plenty of other ways to create trade-offs. Scrapper was one of the few elite specs I actually liked, and it is now ruined for me. I've always been frustrated that elite specs seemed forced on us because of their superiority, so I am not at all opposed to balancing them with core builds, but putting a massive negative stat hit in like that is too hamfisted.

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@Odinens.5920 said:I don't know...I haven't really noticed a difference honestly. I'm still hard to kill, and usually one of the last ones standing in fights we get wiped on.

shrugs shoulders

Tested with my condi scrapper versus my power scrapper and the power one can achieve a barrier that equates to the loss in vit but the condi one does not. So my impression is they are saying scrapper should be power. For the power builds it's a ok fit but for the condi is feels more of a nerf.

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.

Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.

Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.

Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update.

Yeah.. thats why its balance patch as it was too tanky.In the very same patch they said they wanted to make it more tanky, though.
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I find them interesting. Not only do they allow for some interesting mechanics to be added but it essentially allows Anet to change a spec from its base type of adventurer , scholar , and soldier.

I know there have been topics around it in the past about elite specs having different base HP it being a different armour weight This is kind of a way of achieving that.

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I still drag two people off of point to come chase me and now I have damage. I say this is a win I am still pumping 5k barrier, but now I have much more cc, longer cc chains, and damage.

I see nothing wrong with this for me, as a scrapper main, in the slightest. It made scrapper WAY more interesting and gets people off of scrapper that were never dedicated to it in the first place.

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I think a good trade off is a very welcome thing. I main Holosmith and welcome the Holoforge Overheated. It forces me to plan carefully to not be out of the belt skills when you need them. So in itself a tradeoff (or a penalty as you call it) is a good thing. It depends however on the size of the penalty and the benefit from the main effect. Balance is needed, which brings me to the core. Calling a specific action when balancing bad is not the correct way to go. Eventually it is wether or not the balance is fair and in balance. In my opinion this is a perfection that will never be reached, but the current tradeoffs sound reasonable fair to me.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.

Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.

Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.

Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update.

Yeah.. thats why its balance patch as it was too tanky.In the very same patch they said they wanted to make it more tanky, though.

No they did not. They said, and I quote "These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight."If you do not understand what that means, in laymans terms it means they aim to shift how the scrapper tanks and gains its survivability. With the intent for a scrapper to instead tank through barrier application to increase sustainability.

Otherwise known as they dont want to make it more tanky but instead change HOW it can tank.

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While I agree that pure -stat traits are lazy as fuck, having a clever penalty is a good thing imho.Weaver as an example gets increased cd on attunments not switchimg to and from and loses direct access to the third slots skill. That's very clever design and is a real penalty at times, but you get good stuff for it.Tempest can overload, but by using that mechanic he gets a big cd on that attunment so it's risky to switch out as you cant get back fast.Both penalties are tied to the benefit in thw first place.-300hp on the other side........

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Sometimes when you want to add something to the class (which especs often do), you have to take something away so it won't be a striaght upgrade of the core. Which is powercreep. Which actually would be a bad design despite of you suggesting otherwise.

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