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Quickbrand + Alacrity renegade - who is typically the healer?


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Firebrand is both the superior DPS as well as vastly superior Healer and Boon Support.

In my experience Heal Ren isn't really worth it (especially with NPNG etc., it's just not flexible enough) and I personally would recommend either going no heal if you have a really good group and take your fun mostly out of efficiency, speed and being "META", or to take a hFB if you want consistently smooth and still quite fast runs, which especially with pugs also can carry one or two mediocre players as it makes everything substantially more relaxed and pleasant.

All three comps work, if you have the ability to do so just try all three of them a couple times and see which one is for you.

Personally, I don't see any reason not to run hFB, unless you really, really care about being 5 minutes faster or not for all of CM's+T4's and take personal pride in not needing a heal, as otherwise it's just so much nicer to play with.No heal often just feels a lot faster due being a lot more hectic to play and heal Ren just doesn't offer anything hFB doesn't do much better with more flexibility, while also allowing the more flexible Diviner Ren.

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As someone with both support classes, I strictly play FB as healer and Renegade with Diviners and don't really use the tablet much. It's so much more limiting and just a downgrade in comparison to just sticking to FB heals. It doesn't even matter much if FB is better as DPS because the supports are not a large chunk of total team DPS anyways, and Renegade is so much more of a handicap in this regard if it decides to heal, that it's just better to allow it what little DPS it can have.

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healbrand and quickbrand are using mostly different traits and utility skills. Thus taking healing skills while playing quickbrand or quickness skills while playing healbrand actually diminishes your quickness or healing output respectively. Thus, trying to be a hybrid of healbrand and quickbrand is more dependant on how skilled other players in your group are than any thing else. But then again, if you are playing with more skilled players this questions is kind of moot

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@kasoki.5180 said:healbrand and quickbrand are using mostly different traits and utility skills. Thus taking healing skills while playing quickbrand or quickness skills while playing healbrand actually diminishes your quickness or healing output respectively. Thus, trying to be a hybrid of healbrand and quickbrand is more dependant on how skilled other players in your group are than any thing else. But then again, if you are playing with more skilled players this questions is kind of moot

qFB needs 2 traits for quickness and 1 utility and heal. Heal fb would take the heal anyways so you wasted 1 utility and basically no traits since the other trait options arent . The elite is only needed if you have low boon duraton which the heal version never has. Not sure which fb traits you are talking about but the adept and master one needed for quickness are not really affecting the healing.

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@kasoki.5180 said:healbrand and quickbrand are using mostly different traits and utility skills. Thus taking healing skills while playing quickbrand or quickness skills while playing healbrand actually diminishes your quickness or healing output respectively. Thus, trying to be a hybrid of healbrand and quickbrand is more dependant on how skilled other players in your group are than any thing else. But then again, if you are playing with more skilled players this questions is kind of moot

No point in trying to heal as Quickbrand (unless going into tome in really clutch moments, but if you have those a lot, you probably should run hFB), I agree.

But really, hFB doesn't lose much at all by providing Quickness. On the contrary, when I don't have to do quickness as hFB, I feel like my slots are wasted on completely redundant skills and Traits which I don't need to keep people alive and topped up.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:healbrand and quickbrand are using mostly different traits and utility skills. Thus taking healing skills while playing quickbrand or quickness skills while playing healbrand actually diminishes your quickness or healing output respectively. Thus, trying to be a hybrid of healbrand and quickbrand is more dependant on how skilled other players in your group are than any thing else. But then again, if you are playing with more skilled players this questions is kind of moot

qFB needs 2 traits for quickness and 1 utility and heal. Heal fb would take the heal anyways so you wasted 1 utility and basically no traits since the other trait options arent . The elite is only needed if you have low boon duraton which the heal version never has. Not sure which fb traits you are talking about but the adept and master one needed for quickness are not really affecting the healing.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

Quickbrand is taking Liberator's vow and Stalwart speed. Healbrand isn't. Quickbrand is taking Mantra of potence, Healbrand isn't. Healbrand often takes Mantra of Lore, while quickbrand doesn't. There is also a difference of Elite skill where healbrand can use Signet, while quickbrand can use Shout. And often do, depending on the fractal.

@Asum.4960 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:healbrand and quickbrand are using mostly different traits and utility skills. Thus taking healing skills while playing quickbrand or quickness skills while playing healbrand actually diminishes your quickness or healing output respectively. Thus, trying to be a hybrid of healbrand and quickbrand is more dependant on how skilled other players in your group are than any thing else. But then again, if you are playing with more skilled players this questions is kind of moot

No point in trying to heal as Quickbrand (unless going into tome in really clutch moments, but if you have those a lot, you probably should run hFB), I agree.

But really, hFB doesn't lose much at all by providing Quickness. On the contrary, when I don't have to do quickness as hFB, I feel like my slots are wasted on completely redundant skills and Traits which I don't need to keep people alive and topped up.

I agree with you. But that depends on group you are playing with. I don't remember when I did a pug as healFB and thought to myself "wow i dont need these healing utility skills".

The OP question was which one works better as support/healer hybrid. Not as pure healer. And firebrand in PUGs forces you to sacrifice a lot of quickness generation for healing utilities and traits if you want to do both quickness and healing

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@kasoki.5180 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:healbrand and quickbrand are using mostly different traits and utility skills. Thus taking healing skills while playing quickbrand or quickness skills while playing healbrand actually diminishes your quickness or healing output respectively. Thus, trying to be a hybrid of healbrand and quickbrand is more dependant on how skilled other players in your group are than any thing else. But then again, if you are playing with more skilled players this questions is kind of moot

qFB needs 2 traits for quickness and 1 utility and heal. Heal fb would take the heal anyways so you wasted 1 utility and basically no traits since the other trait options arent . The elite is only needed if you have low boon duraton which the heal version never has. Not sure which fb traits you are talking about but the adept and master one needed for quickness are not really affecting the healing.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

Quickbrand is taking Liberator's vow and Stalwart speed. Healbrand isn't. Quickbrand is taking Mantra of potence, Healbrand isn't. Healbrand often takes Mantra of Lore, while quickbrand doesn't. There is also a difference of Elite skill where healbrand can use Signet, while quickbrand can use Shout. And often do, depending on the fractal.

@kasoki.5180 said:healbrand and quickbrand are using mostly different traits and utility skills. Thus taking healing skills while playing quickbrand or quickness skills while playing healbrand actually diminishes your quickness or healing output respectively. Thus, trying to be a hybrid of healbrand and quickbrand is more dependant on how skilled other players in your group are than any thing else. But then again, if you are playing with more skilled players this questions is kind of moot

No point in trying to heal as Quickbrand (unless going into tome in really clutch moments, but if you have those a lot, you probably should run hFB), I agree.

But really, hFB doesn't lose much at all by providing Quickness. On the contrary, when I don't have to do quickness as hFB, I feel like my slots are wasted on completely redundant skills and Traits which I don't need to keep people alive and topped up.

I agree with you. But that depends on group you are playing with. I don't remember when I did a pug as healFB and thought to myself "wow i dont need these healing utility skills".

The OP question was which one works better as support/healer hybrid. Not as pure healer. And firebrand in PUGs forces you to sacrifice a lot of quickness generation for healing utilities and traits if you want to do both quickness and healing

Both Quickbrand and Healbrand generally use Liberator's Vow + Weighty Terms.Quickbrand needs the Shout to upkeep Quickness, while hFB has enough bd to take the Stab mantra.

When people refer to Heal Firebrand, they are referring to the heal and boon support FB that does quickness.

"Pure heal" is rarely if ever run, especially not in fractals.Giving up providing permanent Quickness for 5 players for some redundant heals just isn't worth it.

If you are struggling with healing otherwise, you probably haven't discovered the glory that is Bow of Truth yet, also don't forget to dodge into Allies to Heal them with Selfless Daring. You get perma Vigor and extra endurance regen from potions, and the heal is substantial.

This is my build for Fractals and Raids. Utility 9 is your flexible slot, for Mantra of Lore with Afflicted, Wall of Reflection (with Master of Consecrations) for Bleed Fire, Stand your Ground for Skorvald, Chaos etc., and Hold the Line for general purpose.

It provides all boons except Alacrity of course and way overheals already.For Fractals, you can swap in some Magi pieces bc of the free boon duration from potions, Raids full Harrier, and Minstrel if you need to tank.

It's what people refer to as Heal Firebrand.

(guess liking is still broken in the Forums, copy http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW3ensADlBhFBD2CBkCjF+BbPj2RPpZVoM0PALAMDKCA-jxhXQBAY/B6pbAhK/aoSQ/p+ToeCA66iAIKA/C-e)

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What Asum said, his build is exactly what I am running when going for heal firebrand. If running ONLY fractals you can replace some items with minstrel gear for some additional hitpoints or switch the Honor Grandmaster from Writ of Persistence to Force of Will when struggling with frailty. Otherwise that's the build you should be running.

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I completely agree with that build for experienced groups. For inexepreienced groups this build will lack both quickness uptime and healing+condi cleanse. Its not about what you do as firebrand but more about party members. There is no way you can overheal with this build if your party members are not stacking and moving properly

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At least better then what is on metabattle . Today I looked what they have because of the new patch and I haven't checked it for a longer time I was shocked to see a full minstrel heal FB for fractals there also they invested too much in extra cc(breakbar dmg). My build is very much like this above the only thing I keep minstrel in fractals are the accessories because I will over the cap of the boon duration otherwise because of the fractal potions conversion. When I think about it now I could simply get ride of the oil and using instead https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_Of_Karka_Toughness

Anyway this is what I would use in a raid like scenario : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW3ensADlBhtDBGBDkCjlHCbfemPDoZvn5TGALA0A+AA-jxhXQBh6JAAg9HonuBEq8rhKB11FLwfq/QKA/GsB-e

The 7 can be:"Bow of Truth" for extra heal"Stand your Ground" when you need extra stabi like in the Chaos fractal"Mantra of Lore" for condition cleaning like in Siren's Reef or Snowblind or when instabilities calling for it.

A sword can also be used instead of axe you lose pull and gain mobility for it so counter institutive it sounds but I use sword in Siren's Reef when I get too often blown from the deck. I also have a greatsword since I got asked about it in 99cm (for bigger pull)

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There are people who run healbrand with pure heals and little to no quickness uptime in fractals? You would have to be in seriously bad groups to do something silly like that. FB dosent even need a lot of boon duration to keep 100% quickness uptime unlike renegade alacrity. I run a mix of magi and harrier on my healbrand and very rarely run minstrel pieces. Quickness is never an issue except when I need the elite mantra for stab. But i swap more magi pieces over when i do that.

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No healer comp : soulceave's summit + breakrazor + aegis will heal to 100% and protect people.1 healer comp : who cares between ren or FB ? You'll lose more dps taking harrier FB but you'll get a stronger and easier cover of many boons, heals and utilities, like perma stab, more aegis, resistance, etc. Otherwise each are sufficient, with cleasing, anti-proj, heal, protection, regen ...

For fractals challenge modes you don't necessarily need a healer, depends of your group, depends of instabilities; but others fractals it's not always that simple : You can see "uber" players on 100 CM but they die like id**ts at Amala, Svanir or Ice elemental, or you're dazed every seconds, or trashmobs + 300% dmg in the back, that kind of instabilities. So a healer, and bring stab, walls... well worth the cost of a hybrid DPS.

Honestly I prefer one healer comp in PUG ; may be you lose 10 minutes but it works 90% of cases; with pretended elites PUG it's faster in theory, but ... sometimes there is this general entropy where everything seems fine but you wipe anyway; or the 400kp dude burden but he can't do his job properly and die alone in a corner, but you can't kick him because they're guildies.But time is relative. Like refuse a harrier FB but wait 45 minutes for a zerk one... I don't see the time saving.

If you want to build a healer, IMO FB is better and most wanted. In any case you can give your armor to your ren. 1)If you want a support/dps, go for one of the two, but you won't be a "healer" to carry people.1) edit, I refer to healFB with quickness, I've never seen "pure" healer in fractals ?

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Interesting to see everyone's different preferences. This is what I like to run if I feel healing is needed:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW7OnsADFChFBDkCjF+BDLAsDKCWFgw1EYPj+RPpA-jxRSQBiUJ4zuYBAY/hEqZwWPBQHQHV+NR1fCAcA8+75e3De/93f/93r7v/+7v/+7v/+7lCwvZWA-e

Bane Signet sharing for party damage. Pack runes to cover any holes in boons and to allow me to run scepter. The 3rd utility slot is open to whatever you might need - condi removal, stab, healing, etc... Gear depends on your base AR. I need less concentration gear than shown myself as I have 207 AR like most Fractal Gods. Yet to run into a situation where I needed even more healing.

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:and running heal means you're locked into ventari.

not true. u can do some healing just from staff, but u get a lot of healing from kalla as well. if u camp ventari only u play rene wrong. i can agree tho, that being forced to boonstrip or share stab, handicap ur healing

Locked into ventari i mean Kalla/Ventari....kalla is a given in any build nowadays so i didnt think i would need to type it...... guess i was wrong.

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@"Henry.5713" said:Interesting to see everyone's different preferences. This is what I like to run if I feel healing is needed:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW7OnsADFChFBDkCjF+BDLAsDKCWFgw1EYPj+RPpA-jxRSQBiUJ4zuYBAY/hEqZwWPBQHQHV+NR1fCAcA8+75e3De/93f/93r7v/+7v/+7v/+7lCwvZWA-e

Bane Signet sharing for party damage. Pack runes to cover any holes in boons and to allow me to run scepter. The 3rd utility slot is open to whatever you might need - condi removal, stab, healing, etc... Gear depends on your base AR. I need less concentration gear than shown myself as I have 207 AR like most Fractal Gods. Yet to run into a situation where I needed even more healing.

Your build is basically a variation of the other one with a more aggressive setup while still not going full quickbrand. You lose access to permanent protecion on group (shield 4+Hold the Line). You are absolutely overstacked on boon duration and I am not sure Honorable Staff is worth it over Absolute Resolution given you are sacrificing aegis healing for lower staff cooldowns and the boon duration is useless with harrier gear (I know you said you are running less bd in game, just saying not sure the boon duraiton is needed from the trait). Radiance versus Virtues is a matter of choice, both work.

The only issue I take with it is you do not provide fury, which in a Firebrigade comp would be for the firebrand to provide (Renegade provides alcrity and might, I run staff over mace because not every renegade keeps up 25 might). This is either covered by a member of your static or you are lacking 20% crit in group. Not sure how that is accounted for but without fury all your efforts for a more aggresive setup are for naught.

Otherwise, sure if it works for you looks good enough.

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@Cyninja.2954

Fury is covered by Pack runes and the self-Fury traits or skills of the current META builds. The only one not at 100% Fury is me on my Healbrand.Protection is done through the shield as well as the symbol trait. Some is covered by the Renegade but that could be taken care of by the third and empty utility slot or prestacking it.The gear stats I used to show the build is not what I have in the game. My actual gear is min-maxed around having as much Healing Power combined with the full boon duration. Sorry, if I didn't make that clear. It is a particular mix.The idea behind the staff trait is gaining overall increased healing as that concentration allows me to swap quite a bit of gear towards something like cleric and there are the additional lowered cooldowns with staff. I prefer increased healing from staff (cooldowns and values), Regen, symbols, F2, dodges, etc. over the aegis heal but people are free to disagree. That is a personal preferance at best.

And yes, this works rather well for me.

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@Henry.5713 said:Fury is covered by Pack runes and the self-Fury traits or skills of the current META builds. The only one not at 100% Fury is me on my Healbrand.

I usually go with Discretize builds and most of their meta builds do not provide fury (though that might have changed since they have not been updated for the last patch). In those builds Firebrigade Guardian provides quickness and fury, renegade provides might and alacrity. Obviously if you prestack with a lot of fury and fights are short enough it becomes a non issue, but then you wouldn't be running heal firebrand but rather quickbrand I'd believe.

I'll have to keep an eye on that and see how much fury we overstack or if we have fury issues without me taking axe/sword.

@Henry.5713 said:Protection is done through the shield as well as the symbol trait. Some is covered by the Renegade but that could be taken care of by the third and empty utility slot or prestacking it.

True, if I was to adapt my build to be more offensive I would probably switch Radiance for Virtues and use Bane Signet on the flex slot. I might do that later actually. Virtues is mostly useful when drawing tomes, given I usually don't use tomes and the passive healing is not needed, a more offensive approach might be nice.

@Henry.5713 said:The gear stats I used to show the build is not what I have in the game. My actual gear is min-maxed around having as much Healing Power combined with the full boon duration. Sorry, if I didn't make that clear. It is a particular mix.

No, I assumed as much. In that case, and if you have access to full fury, sure it makes sense to take Honorable Staff if you have accounted for that. Makes your build a rather interesting hybrdid between full heal FB and quickbrand. 240 stats is nothing to sneez at, my guess is you can camp scepter for damage and then switch to staff occasionally to either heal or refresh might.

@Henry.5713 said:The idea behind the staff trait is gaining overall increased healing as that concentration allows me to swap quite a bit of gear towards something like cleric and there are the additional lowered cooldowns with staff. I prefer increased healing from staff (cooldowns and values), Regen, symbols, F2, dodges, etc. over the aegis heal but people are free to disagree. That is a personal preferance at best.

That makes sense. I might have to give the trait a try to see how it compares. With 6.5 seconds of cd on staff 2, the healing would be quite potent. The healing of aegis is obviously more useful when required to weapon swap more.

I might give your build a try next run with my static just to compare. It seems less reliant on weapon swapping at the cost of fury with more potant healing from staff.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Henry.5713 said:Fury is covered by Pack runes and the self-Fury traits or skills of the current META builds. The only one not at 100% Fury is me on my Healbrand.

I usually go with Discretize builds and most of their meta builds do not provide fury (though that might have changed since they have not been updated for the last patch). In those builds Firebrigade Guardian provides quickness and fury, renegade provides might and alacrity. Obviously if you prestack with a lot of fury and fights are short enough it becomes a non issue, but then you wouldn't be running heal firebrand but rather quickbrand I'd believe.

I'll have to keep an eye on that and see how much fury we overstack or if we have fury issues without me taking axe/sword.

@Henry.5713 said:Protection is done through the shield as well as the symbol trait. Some is covered by the Renegade but that could be taken care of by the third and empty utility slot or prestacking it.

True, if I was to adapt my build to be more offensive I would probably switch Radiance for Virtues and use Bane Signet on the flex slot. I might do that later actually. Virtues is mostly useful when drawing tomes, given I usually don't use tomes and the passive healing is not needed, a more offensive approach might be nice.

@Henry.5713 said:The gear stats I used to show the build is not what I have in the game. My actual gear is min-maxed around having as much Healing Power combined with the full boon duration. Sorry, if I didn't make that clear. It is a particular mix.

No, I assumed as much. In that case, and if you have access to full fury, sure it makes sense to take Honorable Staff if you have accounted for that. Makes your build a rather interesting hybrdid between full heal FB and quickbrand. 240 stats is nothing to sneez at, my guess is you can camp scepter for damage and then switch to staff occasionally to either heal or refresh might.

@Henry.5713 said:The idea behind the staff trait is gaining overall increased healing as that concentration allows me to swap quite a bit of gear towards something like cleric and there are the additional lowered cooldowns with staff. I prefer increased healing from staff (cooldowns and values), Regen, symbols, F2, dodges, etc. over the aegis heal but people are free to disagree. That is a personal preferance at best.

That makes sense. I might have to give the trait a try to see how it compares. With 6.5 seconds of cd on staff 2, the healing would be quite potent. The healing of aegis is obviously more useful when required to weapon swap more.

I might give your build a try next run with my static just to compare. It seems less reliant on weapon swapping at the cost of fury with more potant healing from staff.

DH gains Fury from their trap, Soulbeast from their Beast abilities, Daredevils have something like two traits, Weavers have the Blast-Field trait as well as a Air trait that provides Fury."Fury has never been less of a problem" is what I am saying. And you are still free to run an Axe over Scepter if want to feel safe. You will lose some Might but then Pack covers Might and you have a lower cooldown on staff, etc.

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Mantra of Potence traited with Weighty terms + Empowering might + a Ren that can spam F2, generally you don't have issue to maintain 25 mights, so you don't need scepter/staff for it specifically. It's even easier with runes of pack of course, at the small price of less healing or less dps for Ren.If your Ren don't know about f2-f4 skills, yeah you should take staff. Or for heal, but an aegis or shield #5 + dodges would be faster.

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None of any of these healing builds are "needed" strictly speaking. I go with my build on the worse of days (instabilities and certain fractals) where I quite like to have staff but prefer to stay more offensive with Bane Signet sharing and Pack while others feel the need to go with Monk runes, Virtues, staff and possibly more. Not even running any healing outside of those days myself where it is just plain old qBrand for me.It would really depend on the amount of healing people are aiming for. If you think neither of the great benefits of staff (the healing and might) is required then you are free to run whatever you choose to.

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in fractals in NA, it's almost always the firebrand

and anyone who's played healbrand to some sort of competency knows it's so, so good for pugging and offers so much defensive utility + indirect offensive utility in the form of ignoring mechanics/stab

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@Shade.8971 said:There are people who run healbrand with pure heals and little to no quickness uptime in fractals? You would have to be in seriously bad groups to do something silly like that. FB dosent even need a lot of boon duration to keep 100% quickness uptime unlike renegade alacrity. I run a mix of magi and harrier on my healbrand and very rarely run minstrel pieces. Quickness is never an issue except when I need the elite mantra for stab. But i swap more magi pieces over when i do that.

I have seen a few who didn't gave quickness it most noticed when the team has a lot less dps most of the time things fail or he/she got kicked from the group.I can only suspect that people who do that only copy past the wvw built instead of using a proper built.

About quickness after I read your post I took a lock how long the remaining duration is after a fight its about 10-20 second there is some room to cut short but not that much when you consider that in this time frame people need to spread out and do mechanics which require dps.

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