Can you please retest reaper changes.

[XECOR.2814]

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:

Warhorn 5 had to be nerfed as sustain was too high and it was in keeping with future plans to 'rework' Soul Eater which was offering over the top benefits not in keeping with the theme.You've always got the option to use BB.We didnt have the healing in shroud before so whatchoo talkin bout Willis./You're all complaining for the sake of it.People expect too much and everyone has differing views on what is optimum, they cant balance around that, and why should they.I've logged on and dont see any difference, qq more.Use another class. You cant expect necro to be everything.Just summarizing. If I've left any out add on lads.

Warhorn gives lf and se gives hp they are different kinds of sustain. We have very few ways to sustain shroud uptime and they nerfed it for very low base heal. If they did this to follow up with se trait then there is no words how to express ho2 stupid they are because

1. Warhorn is core weapon so it nerfs all necro while only buffing reaper with se trait sustain(lol)-wise.

2. Warhorn gave shroud sustain while new warhorn and se trait gives only hp gains out of shroud. So their functionality are completely different and inferior. Worth noticing that warhorn healing is so low that you only use it for (unreliable-unblockable) daze and swiftness(lol) now. If you use it.

3. For the gs trait before there was no melee range restriction as long as you have it equipped you got healing, which is greatly superior to on attack+in range healing because you could gain healing while kiting out of shroud. Reaper is all about kiting and we get 0 value from it now. Also i remembered they removed cripple from warhorn right?

4. We are talking about sustain from master tier lets not talk about gm traits here. I know my options, only talking about master tier here, you might want to stay on topic.

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

this is Anet we are talking about where their slogan is it is NERF OR NOTHING when it comes to necros all around, they should just rename the class to nerfomancer, because they only want necro to be a boon corrupt bot AND NOTHING ELSE, if you build for anything else there is gonna be another class that does It better in every way

[dceptaconroy.7928]

I dont want to stay on topic I just wanted to put out all the white knight responses before they got out. All a little tongue in cheek. No seriousness at all. If you chk my other thread responses regarding wh5 I was one of the first that had a cry about it. I just made Verdarach the week before so I was a little miffed!

[Obtena.7952]

@XECOR.2814 said:Overall Anet's performance for necromancers has been very very poor and we have every right to complain.

My favourite part is that nothing I've said is wrong. Complain all you want. I ENCOURAGE you to do so. Just don't be surprised when you don't understand what's happening around you and the game isn't the way you think it should be.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Just my 2 cents but perhaps they don’t intend for Reapers to be the sustain type of spec. Pure raw spike damage yes. Some minor sustain yes.

But not decent or strong sustain.

Scourge seems to fill the sustain role better.

Which is how balance should be done imo. There are clear trade offs between damage and defense.

Necros have always been the best balanced class.

• Condition damage requires a relatively slow ramp up time which is how condis should be, unlike other classes who apply condi spike bursts.
• Non-scaling defences which is how defense should be, unlike other classes who can regardless of enemy numbers, negate damage or drop target totally.
• Long range mobility skills require pre-setup, unlike other classes who can blink in and out instantly.

Unfortunately, most other classes with high spike damage are a lot more “durable” than Reapers because their defenses allow them to negate damage or drop target totally. This makes the other classes unbalanced.

Now this is a problem if only Necros are balanced while the rest are unbalanced.And because of the unbalanced state of other classes, I would say bring back our heal in shroud because that allows us to compete on a more even footing with the rest.

Or if they still don’t think Reapers should have too much damage and sustain, I would be very happy too if they made this trait give our Reaper shroud a 7 seconds cooldown.

[Emberheart.8426]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Just my 2 cents but perhaps they don’t intend for Reapers to be the sustain type of spec. Pure raw spike damage yes. Some minor sustain yes.

But not decent or strong sustain.

Scourge seems to fill the sustain role better.

Which is how balance should be done imo. There are clear trade offs between damage and defense.

Necros have always been the best balanced class.

• Condition damage requires a relatively slow ramp up time which is how condis should be, unlike other classes who apply condi spike bursts.
• Non-scaling defences which is how defense should be, unlike other classes who can regardless of enemy numbers, negate damage or drop target totally.
• Long range mobility skills require pre-setup, unlike other classes who can blink in and out instantly.

Unfortunately, most other classes with high spike damage are a lot more “durable” than Reapers because their defenses allow them to negate damage or drop target totally. This makes the other classes unbalanced.

Now this is a problem if only Necros are balanced while the rest are unbalanced.And because of the unbalanced state of other classes, I would say bring back our heal in shroud because that allows us to compete on a more even footing with the rest.

Or if they still don’t think Reapers should have too much damage and sustain, I would be very happy too if they made this trait give our Reaper shroud a 7 seconds cooldown.

You are better off asking for an additional block or something in a utility or a weapon skill. Soul eater did not help solve any problems. If you notice the healing against other players it means that they are getting hit by your shroud attacks, which means that you should be winning anyway even without the minuscule healing. The problem is that it scales into absurdity in PvE when you AoE down trash mobs. This healing being tied to a damage trait is also problematic, because you should be choosing between damage and sustain/defense in every choice you make in your build. I cannot think of another profession off the top of my head that has trait with both a damage modifier and sustain built into it. There could be a trait that I'm missing, but if it exists it probably needs to get changed as well.

I also do not like the scholar rune argument that is often used. Having 100% uptime of a 5% modifier is not a big deal, even 80% uptime is great. While shroud can give you a disadvantage to getting healed to keep your scholar rune, you also have to consider that you have some advantages. Chip damage is more effective on breaking scholar rune on low HP classes and if your HP is full when you shroud up, you can keep your scholar uptime easier than other classes. It all depends on the situation.

[Kahrgan.7401]

@Obtena.7952 said:Actually, I would say that if the class starts where they want it to be and they make it too good, it gets nerfed BACK to it's desired position ... that's what balance is supposed to be.

As for fairness ... I've never played an MMO that was. They can't be when the options are so numerous and different. It's a lot of pipe dreams to have 'fair, balanced' MMO's.

Mirage = OPWarrior = OPScrapper tank = OP (not a lot of dmg, but stupid hard to kill (this is the reason d/d ele was nerfed, but this isnt getting the same treatment?))I could go on, but you get the point.

They do a crap job in balancing. Like OP said, they need to use a chisel, not a chainsaw, but they get lazy and do sweeping changes all at once.

[Obtena.7952]

@Kahrgan.7401 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Actually, I would say that if the class starts where they want it to be and they make it too good, it gets nerfed BACK to it's desired position ... that's what balance is supposed to be.

As for fairness ... I've never played an MMO that was. They can't be when the options are so numerous and different. It's a lot of pipe dreams to have 'fair, balanced' MMO's.

Mirage = OPWarrior = OPScrapper tank = OP (not a lot of dmg, but stupid hard to kill (this is the reason d/d ele was nerfed, but this isnt getting the same treatment?))I could go on, but you get the point.

They do a kitten job in balancing. Like OP said, they need to use a chisel, not a chainsaw, but they get lazy and do sweeping changes all at once.

OK but this doesn't change what I said. It actually makes what I said MORE true. If Anet are bad at balance, what makes anyone think fair and balanced are things we are going to get?

[Kuulpb.5412]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Kahrgan.7401 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Actually, I would say that if the class starts where they want it to be and they make it too good, it gets nerfed BACK to it's desired position ... that's what balance is supposed to be.

As for fairness ... I've never played an MMO that was. They can't be when the options are so numerous and different. It's a lot of pipe dreams to have 'fair, balanced' MMO's.

Mirage = OPWarrior = OPScrapper tank = OP (not a lot of dmg, but stupid hard to kill (this is the reason d/d ele was nerfed, but this isnt getting the same treatment?))I could go on, but you get the point.

They do a kitten job in balancing. Like OP said, they need to use a chisel, not a chainsaw, but they get lazy and do sweeping changes all at once.

OK but this doesn't change what I said. It actually makes what I said MORE true. If Anet are bad at balance, what makes anyone think fair and balanced are things we are going to get?

I mean there’s no harm in making our issues known. Either nothings happens or they listen, no real downside.

[Obtena.7952]

Again, I'm not saying to not complain ... but do it in a way that makes sense. Someone complaining they get one-shotted has nothing to do with SE Shroud heals.