Photon Forge & Healing Turret Discussion

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Rather than seeing nerfs to Forge or Heal Turret, can we get more appropriate graphical output?

When the Holosmith goes into Forge, he should grow golden spikey hair. There should be small objects that begin floating up from the ground around him. The sky should turn dark in the map and there should be cracks of lightning sound effects, as if a hurricane had suddenly formed out of thin air, directly above the Holosmith. The entire map should also be filled with an echoing power up yell that persists until the Holosmith leaves Forge. This would offer more counter play for players to be aware of when a Holo has entered Forge. This way, they can completely disengage the area, preferably something up to 2000 range, to make sure they can avoid its melee attacks.

When Healing Turret is dropped, the water field can stay, but the water field graphics should be replaced with a symbol on the ground that looks like a trollface meme. You know, considering that the Demolisher wearing Holosmith's Healing Turret is packing all of the heal power & condi cleanse of blowing every CD on a full Mender Druid CA Kit. This change would be completely appropriate.

Or it could be acceptable to shorten the range of Forge melee attacks, and slightly curb the heal output of Healing Turret.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Always thought it was pretty insane that healing turret can be 2x blasted and a leap. No wonder they can spike heal (they often do this with stab up too so its not too easy to interrupt)

[Alatar.7364]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The sky should turn dark in the map

But the Holo forge could not work if it did :/

[DonArkanio.6419]

Well, we might wait for it 3 months. Or 6. Or 9. Or never. - We have no idea.

[ILoveMonotony.1479]

Your text is not funny. It lacks subtelty. I'd bee surprised if anyone fell for this.

OTOH, I've been wrong before.

[Vagrant.7206]

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Well, we might wait for it 3 months. Or 6. Or 9. Or never. - We have no idea.

Yeah, I don't think it's right for the screaming and echoing to stop during the 15 minute match. These things need to go on for a few months to drag out the content while animators work on new material.

I think once all the echoing and screaming's done, engineers should be able to fly.

[Mbelch.9028]

Somebody got killed by a holo ;)

[Crab Fear.1624]

Forge should reveal the player for 6 secs on entering. No CD.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Forge should reveal the player for 6 secs on entering. No CD.

Drawbacks bro, drawbacks.

[Dreams.3128]

Um, you do know Engie turrent had gotten its range of nerfs right? It got nerfed a long time ago when it was reworked to overload automatically instead of manually being overloaded and then exploded.

Good engie players are just utilizing their healing field because uh, compare to some other raw healings skills, it not has much as people think.

[mortrialus.3062]

I genuinely think healing turret is deliberately left over tuned because of the voice acting they paid for.

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Um, you do know Engie turrent had gotten its range of nerfs right? It got nerfed a long time ago when it was reworked to overload automatically instead of manually being overloaded and then exploded.

Good engie players are just utilizing their healing field because uh, compare to some other raw healings skills, it not has much as people think.

Thanks for making me post the math again.

To preface this, healing skills tend to come in a handful of basic models. In intense fights you can expect to have to be activating your healing skill close to on cooldown depending on the situation, so you look at the healing the skill provides divided by the cooldown to determine the Healing Per Second. You can also expect heals to provide less self healing in exchange for splashing heals out to your allies as a general principal. If you know the game you can skip the next section down to where I start dissecting Healing Turret itself.

• On the bottom tend to be heals that also do damage in and of themselves or heavily facilitate damage through something like reducing cooldowns, or some other extremely obvious combat utility like Block. These include Arcane Brilliance, Enchanted Daggers, Signet of Vampirism, Signet of the Ether, Bloodfiend, Shelter. They' provide deliberately under tuned healing per second as a result of them being balanced with their theoretical damage utility in mind. They tend to range between 120-200 healing per second.
• Next up tend to be general purpose healing skills that are good in nearly every situation and are instant active heals with minimal requirements. These include Withdraw, To The Limit, Signet of Mercy, Glyph of Elemental Harmony, Mirror, Hide in Shadows. They're very pop and forget, very forgiving to use. They tend to range between 200-280 Healing Per Second. Healing Turret actually falls into this category, but we'll get back to that.
• Next up tend to be heals that happen over longer periods of time, gradually. These include Troll Unguent(339 hps), False Oasis(324 hps), Healing Signet(344 hps), Medic Gyro (281 hps but also heals team), Well of Blood (282 hps but also heals team). They're tuned to have higher healing per second as a result of being gradual healing over time. These tend to range between 280 and peak out at 344 with warrior's Healing Signet.
• And finally you have healing skills with very specific requirements or costs to getting the most out of them. These are typically the most powerful heals when used correctly by a serious margin, as their costs or requirements can be considerably more tricky and costly in the context of a fight. These include A.E.D., Defiant Stance and Infuse the Light, Natural Healing, Litany of Wrath and Blood Reckoning, Ether Feast, Skelk Venom, Mantra of Restoration if you include the full channel. The Healing Per Second is very high, the best in the game usually, often reaching 400-500 HPS or more, even incalculable levels of healing per second in theory.

Now onto Healing Turret itself.

If you just account for the healing, the regeneration, the over charge healing and regeneration, and the only benefit from the field being Detonate Healing Turret, which even beginner Engineers who don't understand the value of the field are going to get, it adds up to 7400 on a 20 second cooldown.

2520+390+2520+650+1,320 (blast) = 7400

7400 healing on a 20 second cooldown is 370 healing per second.

This out performs all of the gradual healing skills while still being an instant acting healing skill. And we haven't even properly factored in the benefit of the field. It's trivial, between jumpshot and Holographic Shockwave and Holo Leap for a holosmith to not at least get 1-2 finishers out of this heal every time. I mean heck, what's the first thing a holosmith is going to do once they heal up? They're going to go into photon forge and reengage 3>5>2>, 90% of the time. That's another 1,320 or 2,640 added on top of the healing skill. Now we're looking at potentially 436 healing per second or 502 healing per second. That's mental. That's better than Natural Healing with none of the downsides like removing all your boons. That's almost as good as A.E.D. (554 healing per second) with none of the unreliability or need for prediction.

Even if you completely removed the field so that they can't get a blast finisher from the turret itself it's still over tuned for what it is at 304 healing per second. That's better than any other fast pop healing skill like that even still. And it cleanses conditions. And it splashes out heals to your allies and gives them a field to leap and blast in too.

And that's just how much Healing Turret is over tuned. It's always been this way. There's a reason why you never ever see Holosmiths run Elixir H, or Coolant Blast despite those being very fine heals well tuned for what they are. It's all right there, in the math for everyone.

And we haven't even talked about the Toolbelt, which is nice 1,158 healing in regeneration and another Water Field to leap and blast in, or Heat Therapy which is very, very, strong and with vent exhaust turns your dodge rolls into 786 heals, or Compounding Chemicals (36 health per boon received) which adds up to a ton of healing when Holosmiths and Scrappers average something like 7 boons per second. It's why when you fight a holosmith you might be able to dodge all of their abilities, their CC, their burst damage, and then counter burst him back for most of their health, but then have to deal with him being immediately full health again without having to completely disengage from the fight they way a lot of builds would have to. Often 2-3 times until either they finally make a big enough mistake to die or they eventually wear you down and kill you.

[Eurantien.4632]

Just nerf their ability to not let anything stealth around them. Then at least there would be a way to slow down their damage. As it is, you need a telepor and barring that you just have to man mode back at them... which they always win with their numbers, block, stab, etc.

[Chaith.8256]

@mortrialus.3062

With 0 healing, Elixir H is 6432 healing every 20s, if you count the regen and the Compounding Chemicals heal procs. It also gives Protection, and swiftness (procs vigor). Healing Turret could get deleted today and not alter Holosmith's place in the food chain.

With 0 healing, Medic Gyro is 6810 healing every 20s, has the big water field too. This is a heal-scaling monster though, with Mender's amulet on, it far out-paces Healing Turret, which has a static non-scaling +2520 healing from the turret's overcharge.

Healing Turret has always been objectively the best Engi heal at 0 healing, but there are times when I've taken Medic Gyro, A.E.D, Elixir H, even Med-Kit despite that. Healing Turret is about 10% better than other options if you boil it down, if it was nerfed by 10% several years ago, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Overall, Engi is a class that has good healing skills, selfish-boons, and cleave. I don't really get the Healing Turret hate. Holo hate makes more sense

[Pengu.7481]

while we're at it, rename prime light beam to final flash

[Eurantien.4632]

It is strange to me how most of holos CCs also do a lot of damage. Seems like if it's a CC the damage shouldn't be that high.

[Alatar.7364]

@Mbelch.9028 said:Somebody got killed by a holo ;)

Everyone got killed by Holo, including my Gw2.exe

[Ten.2617]

Good luck with your Holo. Actually i m much more happy with core Juggernaut and less headache...The better is to see Holos running away from my Flamethrower... May be that they fear overheats.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Chaith.8256 said:@mortrialus.3062

With 0 healing, Elixir H is 6432 healing every 20s, if you count the regen and the Compounding Chemicals heal procs. It also gives Protection, and swiftness (procs vigor). Healing Turret could get deleted today and not alter Holosmith's place in the food chain.

Elixir H is a strong heal. Perfectly viable with excellent boons. But it doesn't compare to Healing Turret's 7400 healing on a 20 second cooldown before you even get into comboing the field with other skills. It's better than Elixir H before you even begin to account for the field and comboing it for more healing. And that is traited Elixir H. And Elixir H is genuinely a great heal and healing turret

If you can Holographic Shockwave and Holo Leap which isn't too hard considering Meta Holo has access to both tons of quickness and stab to make it harder to stop the combo as well as Photon Wall and Toss Elixir S to make it far easier, Healing Turret is reaching 10,054 on a demolisher's amulet. Which most holosmiths can and will do once they reach around Gold 3 in skill level will be doing. That's almost as 60% more HPS on the same cooldown. When you look at the actual realistic potential of Healing Turret we're looking at a difference of 502 vs. 321. And even without the field it's 377 vs. 321. And That's traited Elixir H.

We're looking at the difference between going from 30% health to 68% health with your healing skill with Elixir H vs. going from 30% health to 91% health. And Elixir H is already better than most heals.

We aren't even looking at a balance situation where if you don't play with the field it's a worse heal, but when you do play with the heal you have higher potential. Kind of like what Healing Spring is in ranger arsenal. Which is something that would make sense design wise. It's just better before you even throw the field into the equation.

If Healing Turret was deleted Holosmith they'd run A.E.D. which is risky and can fail entirely through counter play on the part of their opponents. And if they're running Elixir H they're losing 4k realistic potential hearing. Both of which are better scenarios than them having an extremely difficult to stop full reset of the fight on a 20s cooldown without the need to even disengage.

It wouldn't destroy holosmith. That's not the point. But it would make the build harder to play and significantly less forgiving which is a lot of what the build needs.

With 0 healing, Medic Gyro is 6810 healing every 20s, has the big water field too. This is a heal-scaling monster though, with Mender's amulet on, it far out-paces Healing Turret, which has a static non-scaling +2520 healing from the turret's overcharge.

Healing turret scales including the overcharge. I just tested it. Demo is 2520 for both the heal and overcharge and on Menders it was 3063 on both.

Medic Gyro on Menders is an impressive 10,830. On menders Healing Turret is 10,713 without combing it with other skills. And it's faster acting. Medic Gyro isn't exactly leaving it in the dust. On menders it officially begins to outpace it. But even with the higher scaling I wouldn't call that leaving it in the dust.

Medic Gyro is also inline with other healing skills that gradually heal like Troll Unguent and False Oasis and Healing Signet. The trade off for high healing overall is that the high healing comes gradually, leaving you vulnerable to being killed right through your healing skill. Healing Turret heals more unless you go all in on healing power and heals faster.

Where Medic Gyro really shines and the primary reason to use it is if you are deliberately building for the team fight because it also splashes out a considerable amount of healing on your teammates. Healing Turret is better without healing power and even with healing power they're close enough in power and utility to be more of a personal preference sort of thing.

[Chaith.8256]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@mortrialus.3062

With 0 healing, Elixir H is 6432 healing every 20s, if you count the regen and the Compounding Chemicals heal procs. It also gives Protection, and swiftness (procs vigor). Healing Turret could get deleted today and not alter Holosmith's place in the food chain.

Elixir H is a strong heal. Perfectly viable with excellent boons. But it doesn't compare to Healing Turret's 7400 healing on a 20 second cooldown before you even get into comboing the field with other skills. It's better than Elixir H before you even begin to account for the field and comboing it for more healing. And that is traited Elixir H. And Elixir H is genuinely a great heal and healing turret

If you can Holographic Shockwave and Holo Leap which isn't too hard considering Meta Holo has access to both tons of quickness and stab to make it harder to stop the combo as well as Photon Wall and Toss Elixir S to make it far easier, Healing Turret is reaching 10,054 on a demolisher's amulet. Which most holosmiths can and will do once they reach around Gold 3 in skill level will be doing. That's almost as 60% more HPS on the same cooldown. When you look at the actual realistic potential of Healing Turret we're looking at a difference of 502 vs. 321. And even without the field it's 377 vs. 321. And That's traited Elixir H.

We're looking at the difference between going from 30% health to 68% health with your healing skill with Elixir H vs. going from 30% health to 91% health. And Elixir H is already better than most heals.

We aren't even looking at a balance situation where if you don't play with the field it's a worse heal, but when you do play with the heal you have higher potential. Kind of like what Healing Spring is in ranger arsenal. Which is something that would make sense design wise. It's just better before you even throw the field into the equation.

If Healing Turret was deleted Holosmith they'd run A.E.D. which is risky and can fail entirely through counter play on the part of their opponents. And if they're running Elixir H they're losing 4k realistic potential hearing. Both of which are better scenarios than them having an extremely difficult to stop full reset of the fight on a 20s cooldown without the need to even disengage.

It wouldn't destroy holosmith. That's not the point. But it would make the build harder to play and significantly less forgiving which is a lot of what the build needs.

With 0 healing, Medic Gyro is 6810 healing every 20s, has the big water field too. This is a heal-scaling monster though, with Mender's amulet on, it far out-paces Healing Turret, which has a static non-scaling +2520 healing from the turret's overcharge.

Healing turret scales including the overcharge. I just tested it. Demo is 2520 for both the heal and overcharge and on Menders it was 3063 on both.

Medic Gyro on Menders is an impressive 10,830. On menders Healing Turret is 10,713 without combing it with other skills. And it's faster acting. Medic Gyro isn't exactly leaving it in the dust. On menders it officially begins to outpace it. But even with the higher scaling I wouldn't call that leaving it in the dust.

Medic Gyro is also inline with other healing skills that gradually heal like Troll Unguent and False Oasis and Healing Signet. The trade off for high healing overall is that the high healing comes gradually, leaving you vulnerable to being killed right through your healing skill. Healing Turret heals more unless you go all in on healing power and heals faster.

Where Medic Gyro really shines and the primary reason to use it is if you are deliberately building for the team fight because it also splashes out a considerable amount of healing on your teammates. Healing Turret is better without healing power and even with healing power they're close enough in power and utility to be more of a personal preference sort of thing.

Your analysis is good, I wasn't aware they fixed healing turret scaling. However it takes into consideration 100% of healing turrets potential usefulness but doesn't take into consideration the boons of Medic Gyro and Elixir H, also issuing best case scenarios where you are able to combo 3x every time as baseline. It costs over 30 heat and photon forge off CD to do so. Yet your analysis doesn't include any combos in the 10 seconds of water field medic gyro offers for example.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@mortrialus.3062

With 0 healing, Elixir H is 6432 healing every 20s, if you count the regen and the Compounding Chemicals heal procs. It also gives Protection, and swiftness (procs vigor). Healing Turret could get deleted today and not alter Holosmith's place in the food chain.

Elixir H is a strong heal. Perfectly viable with excellent boons. But it doesn't compare to Healing Turret's 7400 healing on a 20 second cooldown before you even get into comboing the field with other skills. It's better than Elixir H before you even begin to account for the field and comboing it for more healing. And that is traited Elixir H. And Elixir H is genuinely a great heal and healing turret

If you can Holographic Shockwave and Holo Leap which isn't too hard considering Meta Holo has access to both tons of quickness and stab to make it harder to stop the combo as well as Photon Wall and Toss Elixir S to make it far easier, Healing Turret is reaching 10,054 on a demolisher's amulet. Which most holosmiths can and will do once they reach around Gold 3 in skill level will be doing. That's almost as 60% more HPS on the same cooldown. When you look at the actual realistic potential of Healing Turret we're looking at a difference of 502 vs. 321. And even without the field it's 377 vs. 321. And That's traited Elixir H.

We're looking at the difference between going from 30% health to 68% health with your healing skill with Elixir H vs. going from 30% health to 91% health. And Elixir H is already better than most heals.

We aren't even looking at a balance situation where if you don't play with the field it's a worse heal, but when you do play with the heal you have higher potential. Kind of like what Healing Spring is in ranger arsenal. Which is something that would make sense design wise. It's just better before you even throw the field into the equation.

If Healing Turret was deleted Holosmith they'd run A.E.D. which is risky and can fail entirely through counter play on the part of their opponents. And if they're running Elixir H they're losing 4k realistic potential hearing. Both of which are better scenarios than them having an extremely difficult to stop full reset of the fight on a 20s cooldown without the need to even disengage.

It wouldn't destroy holosmith. That's not the point. But it would make the build harder to play and significantly less forgiving which is a lot of what the build needs.

With 0 healing, Medic Gyro is 6810 healing every 20s, has the big water field too. This is a heal-scaling monster though, with Mender's amulet on, it far out-paces Healing Turret, which has a static non-scaling +2520 healing from the turret's overcharge.

Healing turret scales including the overcharge. I just tested it. Demo is 2520 for both the heal and overcharge and on Menders it was 3063 on both.

Medic Gyro on Menders is an impressive 10,830. On menders Healing Turret is 10,713 without combing it with other skills. And it's faster acting. Medic Gyro isn't exactly leaving it in the dust. On menders it officially begins to outpace it. But even with the higher scaling I wouldn't call that leaving it in the dust.

Medic Gyro is also inline with other healing skills that gradually heal like Troll Unguent and False Oasis and Healing Signet. The trade off for high healing overall is that the high healing comes gradually, leaving you vulnerable to being killed right through your healing skill. Healing Turret heals more unless you go all in on healing power and heals faster.

Where Medic Gyro really shines and the primary reason to use it is if you are deliberately building for the team fight because it also splashes out a considerable amount of healing on your teammates. Healing Turret is better without healing power and even with healing power they're close enough in power and utility to be more of a personal preference sort of thing.

Your analysis is good,

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I wasn't aware they fixed healing turret scaling. However it takes into consideration 100% of healing turrets potential usefulness but doesn't take into consideration the boons of Medic Gyro and Elixir H, also issuing best case scenarios where you are able to combo 3x every time as baseline. It costs over 30 heat and photon forge off CD to do so. Yet your analysis doesn't include any combos in the 10 seconds of water field medic gyro offers for example.

I didn't talk a lot about Medic Gyro's field because if you're a scrapper it has the same number of combo as Healing Turret. At menders the heals are fairly close in effectiveness, including the field and the likely combos you are going to see is the same. The likely capable of doing on Turret or Gyro is Hammer 3+Blast Gyro if they're running it. The true decision between Medic Gyro or Healing Turret to me comes down to whether you're team fighting because that's where Gyro just completely outshines Healing Turret is that it pulses a lot of raw healing towards your teammates nearby.

And Medic Gyro having high tuning makes sense to from a class design point as the heal itself is gradual and takes five seconds to actually complete and thus deserves higher tuning. Healing Turret being a fast acting healing skill means it should have lower immediate healing than the average heal but make up for it with the field.

And on something without Healing Power like Knight's or Demolisher's Healing Turret high base healing is still a lot more raw healing than Medic Gyro with similar utility in that they both have fielders. It's just at 0 healing power Healing Turret is more healing than Medic Gyro. And Whether you're on Medic Gyro or Healing Turret, they both have water fields to wring more healing out of them.

I hammer the point about the field a lot regarding Elixir H because even without the Field Healing Turret outshines Elixir H.

https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyImportantSandstormArsonNoSexy

Nothing in the game full resets a fight as quickly and easily without disengaging as a holosmith right now. And that's 30% health to 80% health with just one combo finisher.

[Chaith.8256]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyImportantSandstormArsonNoSexy

Nothing in the game full resets a fight as quickly and easily without disengaging as a holosmith right now. And that's 30% health to 80% health with just one combo finisher.

If you run a +0 vitality amulet, many classes can recover around 50% hp with a healing skill. We're talking about a thousand extra outlier healing every 20s. In a balanced world the holo in that video would go up to 73% hp instead of 80%

Edit: point being, I think we can conclude healing turret could be safely nerfed but at this point I'd say Heat Therapy could be even better to talk about.

Or Mirage

[mortrialus.3062]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyImportantSandstormArsonNoSexy

Nothing in the game full resets a fight as quickly and easily without disengaging as a holosmith right now. And that's 30% health to 80% health with just one combo finisher.

If you run a +0 vitality amulet, many classes can recover around 50% hp with a healing skill. We're talking about a thousand extra outlier healing every 20s. In a balanced world the holo in that video would go up to 73% hp instead of 80%

Edit: point being, I think we can conclude healing turret could be safely nerfed but at this point I'd say Heat Therapy could be even better to talk about.

Or Mirage

I'm waiting for all 15 of the mirage threads to get merged to publish my overall diagnosis on mirage because if I just casually toss it into one of the 15 threads I might as well not say it at all because it's going to disappear into the ether.

Also, no. Like maybe gradual healing skills like Troll Unguent and False Oasis that are balanced around higher overall HPS but healing over a longer period of time, but most classes cannot go from 30% to nearly full health with just one healing skill. That's very unique to Engineer right now.

[BarnacleBoy.6918]

Holo gets Heat Therapy in addition to 3 leaps in a water and compounding chemicals. Lets think about this for a second...

Holo does far more damage than scrapper, gets to retain the health pool, gets a secondary healing trait (heat therapy) in addition to compounding chemicals(rapid regen removed from scrapper)gains 5 new skills in photon forge (where as scrapper lost utility with the new gyro) and has the ability to triple leap in a water field without sacrificing any utilities.

There is nothing wrong with healing turret IMO, nerfing core traits/utilities makes the entire spec weaker (and we know where core and scrapper are atm) instead, the strongest of the 3 specs gets an additional passive healing trait.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyImportantSandstormArsonNoSexy

Nothing in the game full resets a fight as quickly and easily without disengaging as a holosmith right now. And that's 30% health to 80% health with just one combo finisher.

If you run a +0 vitality amulet, many classes can recover around 50% hp with a healing skill. We're talking about a thousand extra outlier healing every 20s. In a balanced world the holo in that video would go up to 73% hp instead of 80%

Edit: point being, I think we can conclude healing turret could be safely nerfed but at this point I'd say Heat Therapy could be even better to talk about.

Or Mirage

I'm waiting for all 15 of the mirage threads to get merged to publish my overall diagnosis on mirage because if I just casually toss it into one of the 15 threads I might as well not say it at all because it's going to disappear into the ether.

Also, no. Like maybe gradual healing skills like Troll Unguent and False Oasis that are balanced around higher overall HPS but healing over a longer period of time, but most classes cannot go from 30% to nearly full health with just one healing skill. That's very unique to Engineer right now.

Chaith had mentioned: "Is it really Healing Turret that is the problem or is it the Holosmith kit?" That's a good question. Fixing the problem requires identifying the problem, which isn't so easy in this case. Though I do have to say that the problem lies somewhere within being able to lay down 2x water fields in succession to a large chain of leaps & blasts, fueled by quickness buffing.

Important for me to point out that I never had a problem with Healing Turret's output during Core or HoT or even the beginning of PoF. which was before Holosmiths were pumping out crazy Quickness uptime. The more I think about it, I think too much Quickness is the actual problem here in terms of how many leaps & blasts can be landed in those water fields, in a very short amount of time. That Quickness is also responsible for high DPS rolling off of forge, as the Holo chops you down, while he's leaping & blasting & healing at the same time. Other classes could stack Quickness but the only boon it grants to non water field heal skills, is casting it faster. Quickness paired with 2x water fields on a class with a ton of leaps & blasts, is quite the indirect buff to sustain value.

Still doesn't quite address what needs a shave though. Healing Turret? Forge Melee Range? A specific attack/utility/trait? Quickness uptime? I don't know, maybe nothing needs to be done. I assume they'll be handing out more drawbacks upon the next patch. Holo & Mirage will likely be in that list.

[Chaith.8256]

@mortrialus.3062 said:But most classes cannot go from 30% to nearly full health with just one healing skill. That's very unique to Engineer right now.

Healing Turret is 50% Engineer class hp, with Demolisher amulet, it's not nearly 70% hp. You have to realize that Heat Therapy is happening simultaneously as well.

With no vitality or healing Warrior's To The Limit (traited) is a 52.57% heal. Spellbreaker's Natural Healing is a 60.74% heal, Necromancer's Well of Blood is a 45.89%, Consume (5) Conditions is a 47.29% heal, these are all percentages of high base health classes too.

Like obviously Healing Turret is good because it does its job on a 20s CD instead of 24-25s, and heals allies a lot. No doubt. Let's leave it there and not make any crazy claims like Engineers are in unique possession of increasing their HP by 50%.