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is scrapper discount holosmith


foste.3098

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Instead of a tank/bunker scrapper became a discount holosmith. The most used scrapper build in pvp is a rifle build with explosives trait line using grenade kit to do huge bursts. The build doesn't even use any gyros, the entire elite spec is backwards. Imo there needs to be another total rework if this mess.

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@Vagrant.7206 said:Still relevant.

And where exactly did i ask for nerfs? i said that the elite spec is a failure because it is designed to be a bunker but is used as a burst/dps spec instead because it works better that way, overlapping its role with holosmith. What's even the point of engineer having 2 elite specs when they both are the exact same thing?

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@foste.3098 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Still relevant.

And where exactly did i ask for nerfs? i said that the elite spec is a failure because it is designed to be a bunker but is used as a burst/dps spec instead because it works better that way, overlapping its role with holosmith. What's even the point of engineer having 2 elite specs when they both are the exact same thing?

I think you missed the point of my post.

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@foste.3098 said:Instead of a tank/bunker scrapper became a discount holosmith. The most used scrapper build in pvp is a rifle build with explosives trait line using grenade kit to do huge bursts. The build doesn't even use any gyros, the entire elite spec is backwards. Imo there needs to be another total rework if this mess.

Total rework needs to be a total reversal.

@foste.3098 said:Instead of a tank/bunker scrapper became a discount holosmith. The most used scrapper build in pvp is a rifle build with explosives trait line using grenade kit to do huge bursts. The build doesn't even use any gyros, the entire elite spec is backwards. Imo there needs to be another total rework if this mess.

What build are you talking about? I haven't seen this yet.Sounds like a drunk scrapper variant.

Now I want to try that build. Anyone play it?

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  • 4 weeks later...

I put some thought in and came up with this idea: what if instead of having a function gyro skill that replaces f5 and is useless in pve, scrapper gets to choose out of 3 f5 function gyros through grandmaster traits in the same way a daredevil gets to pick a dodge.

So we would have the 1st gm function gyro trait that is support based and basically be what the f5 is now, the 2nd gm trait that is bunker oriented and could drop a field that pulses protection, stability, and grants allies increased endurance recovery, and the 3rd gm that is offensive and pulses vulnerability and damage to enemies in the field.These 3 suggestion are just to get the idea across but the function gyros can be made vastly different through the 3 gm traits, we could have 3 different combo fields, or different aoe sizes, as long as the 3 traits covers different facets of scraper: support, bunker(or bruiser) and damage (not holosmith level of damage).

This would also solve the issue of scrappers being completely excluded from pve, assuming that the damage function gyro (gm trait) is good enough to lift scrappers dps to a level where, when combined with its other perks, it becomes good enough to bring to at least high end fractals.

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@Lonami.2987 said:

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

Still relevant.

Beautiful. Can't believe I never saw it before, thanks for sharing.

I second this. Frankly I feel I'd have more dignity as a tree - none of this commander of the pact nonsense: the only engineers I've seen make a difference are the fellas who built the airship prototypes. Plus it'd be canon to use the twigs as the legs for my turrets...

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I'd just try to move on at this stage. If you're not really into WvW and going support Scrapper, which is still pretty good due to the core engineer aspects, then there's not really much left and I doubt anything will be address until at least (if ever... Anet thinks this is a 'fix') September. Either continue playing the scrapper (warts and all), try and get into Holosmith (which is honestly a better 'bruiser/bully' at this stage and playing it this way isn't even the full extent of Holos power) or move on to a different class.

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@Ambrosius Custard.8137 said:I'd just try to move on at this stage. If you're not really into WvW and going support Scrapper, which is still pretty good due to the core engineer aspects, then there's not really much left and I doubt anything will be address until at least (if ever... Anet thinks this is a 'fix') September. Either continue playing the scrapper (warts and all), try and get into Holosmith (which is honestly a better 'bruiser/bully' at this stage and playing it this way isn't even the full extent of Holos power) or move on to a different class.

I think I'll try running core turret engi in WvW and see if I can take cognitive dissonance so far they have to come up with a new term.

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I was pretty unhappy with the changes to scrapper, pure melee specs have a tough time outside of sPvP due to how easy is to kite people around.
I don't think the spec is dead, in fact I would say that the support build kind of improved, superspeed on blasts and how bulkwark gyro works now is enough to warrant taking scrapper over some core line. Said that, the spec itself doesn't feel support oriented, the infamous impact savant does nothing for either support or condi builds, and the traits are very underwhelming.
I've played for the past couple of weeks with a ton of different approaches, from glassy to tanky bruiser, and being a melee oriented spec is tough.
A thief should never die against you unless they're focusing on another enemy, a ranger can easily not just escape you in every way possible (from invisibility to the plenty movility skills they have access to) but is also capable of downing you without you even having the chance to produce barrier.
Revenants, elementalists and mesmers have an easy time doing the same, and the only classes you can engage in similar combat are warrior, necromancer and guardian, as they are also melee oriented in most current builds.
I don't believe that in this game every class should be good against every class, but even when you compare it with similarly oriented classes, the scrapper feels like a niche spec, not very well designed around the strenghts and weaknesses of the core class.
See for instance how well flamethrower synergizes with the lower line of traits on scrapper (might on stab, extra damage with superspeed, swiftness and stab, access to quickness on might), all of this works pretty well with flamethrower, it has access to the right amount of stab and might to proc those traits, also swiftness and blasts to produce superspeed. It should be the goto skill to bring with a scrapper, but the autoattack is so diluded in multihits that unless you go full glass, you receive more damage from retaliation than what you do against the enemy. The damage is consistent, yes, but too low to synergize well with impact savant, making the synergies it does have, to feel underwhelming.
So lets say that you want to make it work and be the promised juggernaut with scrapper, you bring firearms, it works well with close quarters and flamethrower, and you bring the mandatory alchemist line, to reach the 25 stacks of might, have some stunbreaks and extra stab.

It should be a working build, if healing gyro is improved back up, flamethrower gets its hits number reduced and the damage increased, maybe even increase the radius on some skills (FT 2), imo make flamewall be a straight line from the caster and not perpendicular, and a bit wider.I can see it bringing something different from core and holo, with consistent damage output and barrier to compensate for the lack of health and regeneration.

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Here, have a song- it's an old one and a good one. Isn't hard to guess which one. I just changed a few lines here and there.

Happy guns are burning coldfrom projectile hateRunnin condi no one buys itCleansed so easy

Trade-offs landing everywhereLost a belt skill it's not fairVent your spleen the devs don't care'Cause it's alright

I will get byI will get byI will get byI will survive

I see you wrote your gripes outSome white knight told you,'Get out!'You got a forum ban for itBut it's alright

Lot's of time while you're in jailTo peruse the gem store salesWhere every legendary's got aTouch of fail

I will get byI will get byI will get byI will survive

Such a mystery to meThe core nerfed just to balance the eliteThe things that workedhave been replacedbite down and chew- ignore the taste

It's a lesson to meTo never beg for balance when aggrievedThe kinds of changewe all hoped forWound up discarded on the floor

With no expansion pack for yearsThe healing turret's grinding gearsAnd nothin' said to quell your fearsBut it's alright

Core Engineer's a memeParity's a long lost dreamAnd no one wants you on their teamBut it's alright

You will get byYou will get byYou will get byYou will survive

Nothing doin' fielding kitsImpact Savant is full of @!%#So chug elixirs, throw a fitCause it's alright

Holo, Scrapper, it's all staleI told you once before to bailBut you played on despite the failAnd it's alright.

You will get byYou will get byYou will get byYou will survive

We will get byWe will get byWe will get byWe will survive...

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@Baltzenger.2467 said:So lets say that you want to make it work and be the promised juggernaut with scrapper, you bring firearms, it works well with close quarters and flamethrower, and you bring the mandatory alchemist line, to reach the 25 stacks of might, have some stunbreaks and extra stab.

What I don't like is pulsing might on stability competing with gyro superspeed for groups.You get group superspeed from FT-2, but only if there is no projectile-hate.

I often run a power-scrapper-zerg build, using _blast/shredder/mortar _and explosives/firearms.So, by dismissing _alchemy _for _explosives _for more damage, using juggernaut, mass momentum, object in motion, _applied force _and flamethrower, heal-, blast- and shredder-gyro + mortar, you get a pretty strong glass canon with high barrier generation.However, even not considering the retaliation issue, camping hammer/_mortar _does more damage with _flamethrower _and you lose modified ammunition. Gyros would also be enough superspeed generation with gyroscopic acceleration instead of mass momenum. Regarding might, hammer-1 + blast-gyro is also plenti to get above 10 stacks. In WvW even in small zergs/groups you are at 25 most of the time.

So, in direct comparison, even if you already use the traitlines, have the right stats and a dmg-oriented build, this trait synergy is actually a downgrade.

It works well in a drunken-scrapper-variant at some pvp setups and on Halloween-labyrinth-farm, though. ^^

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