We NEED Harsh punishments for Match Manipulators.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Point should be give for individual performance and bonus points for good team play. Any afk players during match should be internally recorded and after say 3 times within a certain time frame a automatic 2 day or so suspension from pvp should occur. This way if someone has to leave once due to life reasons their not penalized but it's obviously not the case if happens 3 times in a few days. Same with players leaving matches. Over last few days this crap has happened every other game,at first I didnt understand why cuz we were winning most of the matches during the times it occurred that the realization hit lok

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Tapps.1479 said:This is a terrible idea. Most people aren't good enough to understand how to play the game properly let alone determine if a team mate is activily trying to lose a game. I've been accused of match manipulation for fighting off point. You really want an angry mob with that thought process handing out dishonor?

I agree other than players leaving or afking at spawn it's hard to determine a manipulator from just a bad player lol

[Ziggityzog.7389]

You mean if they wintrade with a buddy or 2 for a few months and ruin the game for so many people by playing on off hours only vs bots, use voice chat on alt accounts to throw wins, ask people to throw games for gold, walk around for a match because I want to snipe a ranked spot with someone in the map, or just be a dbag basement troll.

A 3 month ""ban"" where they get to keep everything and keep playing to do it next season isn't enough?

Lol

I miss the days where they actually cared about the game and would ruin people that cheated. Best example is the hacker that they stripped naked and had jump to his death before deleting the account.

Now nothing matters besides the cash shop shiny items.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:You mean if they wintrade with a buddy or 2 for a few months and ruin the game for so many people by playing on off hours only vs bots, use voice chat on alt accounts to throw wins, ask people to throw games for gold, walk around for a match because I want to snipe a ranked spot with someone in the map, or just be a kitten basement troll.

A 3 month ""ban"" where they get to keep everything and keep playing to do it next season isn't enough?

Lol

I miss the days where they actually cared about the game and would ruin people that cheated. Best example is the hacker that they stripped naked and had jump to his death before deleting the account.

Now nothing matters besides the cash shop shiny items.

Anet may very well know where the games heading so cares little lol

[Ziggityzog.7389]

@Psycoprophet.8107

Bingo lol. At this point just pushing junk skins to buy for cash every update or small game fix is the best way to go. Enough stupid people buy worthless crap so there is no need to make pvp competitive and have a esport thing going.

[Lucentfir.7430]

Aha....that's rich....sorry to say but it's way too late for that recommendation. Harsh reality is you're just going to have to live with it. Anet would rather reward these sorts of players rather then do anything to discourage such . I'd suggest moving to a actual PvP focused/supported game if you want your competative fix, while you wait for the massively improbable 180 from anet to address such issues. Ded gaem mood.

[Tycura.1982]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Lots of people running match manipulations.Spill the beans. Who should you keep an eye out for?

[rwolf.9571]

Anet gave a slap on the wrist to people who sold matches. I highly doubt they doing anything now.

[Burnfall.9573]

In a healthy competitive game; harsh punishments and consequences for Toxicity are taken into action and are taken seriously

(In fact; i was told 2 days ago while competing in a healthy competitive game that 'you can do whatever you want because Anet won't care as long you buy gems. As long you are a regular buyer, they won't check you out')

--my question to all of this; does Anet keep track of their regular buyers vs none-to-less buyers? And are there any disregard to regular buyers accounts vs regard to none-to-less buyers account? Just being curious really --

-Have a good day-

[sephiroth.4217]

I like the idea that if someone DCs from a match say 10 times in a week it will result in dishonor for the season.

But its best to stop caring in my opinion, I love this game and all but nothing we can do as players.

[jessiestiles.9437]

Maybe some people don't understand the points system. I don't know myself but I'd assume the rating points deducted from the losing side depends on the match score difference compared to the match maker's expected score. Correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps players who don't understand it, when encountering a match that is potentially or likely unwinnable, don't feel there is any benefit to finishing the match. If they realized there is an incentive to scoring as many points as possible regardless of losing the match they might not stay at base. When it does occur I have tried to explain, not with much success as they weren't in the best mood at the time. They haven't replied with an answer that suggested they were already aware of this. Perhaps if more people pointed this out it would happen less that someone independently decides to afk without the opposition compensating them. Thereby making it easier to tell a genuine match manipulator from a quitter.

AFK hasn't happened as much to me in ranked at the humble mid gold level. About 3 times in 100 games that I have noticed. Which is about the same frequency as dcs resulting in 0 point loss games. The players who afk for up to 20 seconds at the starting bell is annoyingly a bit more common.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Current win trade wars winner is at 111-11 lol. Last seasons wintrade winner is playing this season and has 4x the losses he had last season lol.

Gotta love the wintrade wars. Established season 6. That's why I quit the cesspool that is ranked after season 7. I'll do my 10 at the end and get plat. Happy enough :)

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Lots of people running match manipulations.Spill the beans. Who should you keep an eye out for?

Oh I've learned my lesson with talking about that publicly. If you piss enough of them off, you'll find yourself riding gold 2 for awhile until they get bored.

And besides that, it's not so much about who to avoid, as much as it is how to avoid all of it in general.

1. Never play above the required game limit if you're serious about playing high in rating. Wait until the last week to actually appear on the leaderboards. If you don't do this, it is likely you will be targeted by alt throw phases, if your leaderboard position is even in the top 100 nowadays. You could be lightly prioritized or heavily prioritized vs. throws depending on if they like you or not. Sometimes they may let you past the gate because they believe you deserve it.
2. Always que offline and only ever que 1 game at a time, if you are already above the 120 limit and visible on the leaderboards. If your rating is significantly high, say around 1600-1650ish, If you sneak in offline before people realize you are online, and only que 1 game and then stop, your chances of avoiding all of the bullshit listed in 1. is much greater.
3. NEVER que early morning NA time zone off peak hours. Only ever que prime time. Lately as of this season, early morning off peak hours have been a ridiculous rating loss trap. There are people who camp these hours of play on alts, and they just throw vs. main accounts who try to play at this time, to knock people out of leaderboard positions. Sometimes they try to win if they are against the main.

Most of the match manipulations that are happening lately, are simply alt phase throwing. It isn't even win trading anymore usually. This is because the population is so low, that alt throwing is extremely easy to do and very effective. A top gold 3 or bottom plat 1 account will still be able to get in matches with 1800s nowadays. So the people who actually organize win trading, will play the desired mains into the top 10 or top 20, and then spend the rest of the week defending those ratings by alt phasing and throwing against any competitors who may actually be good enough to sneak past the gate. This is a much stronger tactic to defending those high positions than straight win trading, because people don't know to que dodge those rando alt accounts, and a truly plat 3 player can appear in a game against you while he's being placed as a gold 2, which is an incredibly smurfed up situation that will make a match feel like a win trade it will be so lopsided.

[DrakoRoma.4167]

I wonder if posting leaderboards occuring only after the season has ended would improve anything. I also wonder if it's too late for changes to have any positive effect, but this at least seems like an extremel easy to implement.

[jessiestiles.9437]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Lots of people running match manipulations.Spill the beans. Who should you keep an eye out for?

Oh I've learned my lesson with talking about that publicly. If you kitten enough of them off, you'll find yourself riding gold 2 for awhile until they get bored.

And besides that, it's not so much about who to avoid, as much as it is how to avoid all of it in general.

1. Never play above the required game limit if you're serious about playing high in rating.
   Wait until the last week to actually appear on the leaderboards. If you don't do this, it is likely you will be targeted by alt throw phases, if your leaderboard position is even in the top 100 nowadays. You could be lightly prioritized or heavily prioritized vs. throws depending on if they like you or not. Sometimes they may let you past the gate because they believe you deserve it.
2. Always que offline and only ever que 1 game at a time,
   if you are already above the 120 limit and visible on the leaderboards. If your rating is significantly high, say around 1600-1650ish, If you sneak in offline before people realize you are online, and only que 1 game and then stop, your chances of avoiding all of the kitten listed in 1. is much greater.
3. NEVER que early morning NA time zone off peak hours.
   Only ever que prime time. Lately as of this season, early morning off peak hours have been a ridiculous rating loss trap. There are people who camp these hours of play on alts, and they just throw vs. main accounts who try to play at this time, to knock people out of leaderboard positions. Sometimes they try to win if they are against the main.

Most of the match manipulations that are happening lately, are simply alt phase throwing. It isn't even win trading anymore usually. This is because the population is so low, that alt throwing is extremely easy to do and very effective. A top gold 3 or bottom plat 1 account will still be able to get in matches with 1800s nowadays. So the people who actually organize win trading, will play the desired mains into the top 10 or top 20, and then spend the rest of the week defending those ratings by alt phasing and throwing against any competitors who may actually be good enough to sneak past the gate. This is a much stronger tactic to defending those high positions than straight win trading, because people don't know to que dodge those rando alt accounts, and a truly plat 3 player can appear in a game against you while he's being placed as a gold 2, which is an incredibly smurfed up situation that will make a match feel like a win trade it will be so lopsided.

That is batshit crazy. There's only 200 or so people in top plat+ yeah?

If someone knows you are online they still wouldn't know when you are going to queue. Could be 10 minutes or 3 hours. Unless the queue times are like an hour. Having gold 2 players on a team suggests they are added for speedier queues. So to do this there would need to be a lot of those 200 people involved. Makes it sound like there is an underground mafia betting syndicate involved. The supposed 'gate keepers'. What exactly is the reward besides a snipet of text above your head? Win a Ferrari? Money? Must be something for anyone to go through that much effort. Otherwise, if what you are saying is true (which I'm not doubting based on past seasons and the volume of complaints), this is complete batshit. Not to mention your peers in this strange subculture who are associates. Community standards low as can be.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@jessiestiles.9437 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Lots of people running match manipulations.Spill the beans. Who should you keep an eye out for?

Oh I've learned my lesson with talking about that publicly. If you kitten enough of them off, you'll find yourself riding gold 2 for awhile until they get bored.

And besides that, it's not so much about who to avoid, as much as it is how to avoid all of it in general.

1. Never play above the required game limit if you're serious about playing high in rating.
   Wait until the last week to actually appear on the leaderboards. If you don't do this, it is likely you will be targeted by alt throw phases, if your leaderboard position is even in the top 100 nowadays. You could be lightly prioritized or heavily prioritized vs. throws depending on if they like you or not. Sometimes they may let you past the gate because they believe you deserve it.
2. Always que offline and only ever que 1 game at a time,
   if you are already above the 120 limit and visible on the leaderboards. If your rating is significantly high, say around 1600-1650ish, If you sneak in offline before people realize you are online, and only que 1 game and then stop, your chances of avoiding all of the kitten listed in 1. is much greater.
3. NEVER que early morning NA time zone off peak hours.
   Only ever que prime time. Lately as of this season, early morning off peak hours have been a ridiculous rating loss trap. There are people who camp these hours of play on alts, and they just throw vs. main accounts who try to play at this time, to knock people out of leaderboard positions. Sometimes they try to win if they are against the main.

Most of the match manipulations that are happening lately, are simply alt phase throwing. It isn't even win trading anymore usually. This is because the population is so low, that alt throwing is extremely easy to do and very effective. A top gold 3 or bottom plat 1 account will still be able to get in matches with 1800s nowadays. So the people who actually organize win trading, will play the desired mains into the top 10 or top 20, and then spend the rest of the week defending those ratings by alt phasing and throwing against any competitors who may actually be good enough to sneak past the gate. This is a much stronger tactic to defending those high positions than straight win trading, because people don't know to que dodge those rando alt accounts, and a truly plat 3 player can appear in a game against you while he's being placed as a gold 2, which is an incredibly smurfed up situation that will make a match feel like a win trade it will be so lopsided.

That is batshit crazy. There's only 200 or so people in top plat+ yeah?

If someone knows you are online they still wouldn't know when you are going to queue. Could be 10 minutes or 3 hours. Unless the queue times are like an hour. Having gold 2 players on a team suggests they are added for speedier queues. So to do this there would need to be a lot of those 200 people involved. Makes it sound like there is an underground mafia betting syndicate involved. The supposed 'gate keepers'. What exactly is the reward besides a snipet of text above your head? Win a Ferrari? Money? Must be something for anyone to go through that much effort. Otherwise, if what you are saying is true (which I'm not doubting based on past seasons and the volume of complaints), this is complete batshit. Not to mention your peers in this strange subculture who are associates. Community standards low as can be.

I've explained how & why so many times in this forum, that I'm actually finally tired of repeating myself. Others have also well explained how & why, here and on reddit, including prominent streamer video documentations of evidence. If you don't know what's going on and why 7 years in, start paying attention.

But considering the account that posted your response has 1 discussion and 10 comments, I assume you're the usual alt account apologist/defender for the scene, who absolutely must comment on everything Boyer says about match manipulation. I assume this is because I'm the only one that actually takes my time to sit down and explain in detail exactly what is happening and why. I know some of the people involved cannot stand me for that, but the community who is not involved deserves to know.

Also, you should know that each and every time there is a falling out, that's when people start to talking to me. I don't claim to know everything but I know a great deal more of facts than you may realize. Luckily, I'm not here to expose any individuals. I've already had my run with that and its consequences back in S6, when I harped for months and months about match manipulations, getting the majority of the community aware and very pissed off about it, and then Arenanet did a big ban phase that caught many main accounts up in the whirlwind. Whether or not I played an integral role in that ban phase is besides the point, because many of those players who lost their main accounts believe I did. I take on that social stigma still to do this day, especially when I am queueing. Ironically enough, the punishment they try to give me for S6 and my outspoken nature about match manipulation in the forum, actually ends up being what keeps me hot and in the center of what's going on. It's how I bump into people and get to talking with them, and it's how I learn what they are doing, and how they are doing it.

It's year 7 S17, it's not a secret anymore, everyone knows what's going on, Boyer isn't the only one saying it, there are WAY more prominent faces who have exposed match manipulations than me, give it a rest, give it a break, trying to hide it and/or act like it isn't real doesn't work anymore in 2019. Get over it and move on. No one takes ranked seriously anymore and I don't think anyone really cares at this point. Why? Because we've all learned that it doesn't matter how many people are aware & care about it. It only matters if Arenanet cares about it.

[jessiestiles.9437]

You misunderstand. I am not saying you are crazy. I haven't played in 14 seasons hence why this is a complete shock to me. To spend everyday stalking the top 200 or so players online status and creating new accounts to mess with their matches. Which would require a lot of the top 200 players to achieve this. Yes, so insane it sounds unbelievable for the uninitiated. That's also why I am asking if there is a monetary incentive. People do crazy things for money. At least that's a somewhat understandable motive.

Sorry about the jibe about your peers. After reading your post I have a lot more respect for you having spoken out and gotten people banned. I can see how the response wouldn't have been fun for you and understand your reluctance to go through it again with the antisocial effers.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"jessiestiles.9437" said:You misunderstand. I am not saying you are crazy. I haven't played in 14 seasons hence why this is a complete shock to me. To spend everyday stalking the top 200 or so players online status and creating new accounts to mess with their matches. Which would require a lot of the top 200 players to achieve this. Yes, so insane it sounds unbelievable for the uninitiated. That's also why I am asking if there is a monetary incentive. People do crazy things for money. At least that's a somewhat understandable motive.

Sorry about the jibe about your peers. After reading your post I have a lot more respect for you having spoken out and gotten people banned. I can see how the response wouldn't have been fun for you and understand your reluctance to go through it again with the antisocial effers.

The top 250 may show 250 accounts holding those positions, but I guarantee you it's more 100 actual players. Almost everyone has an alt account or two nowadays, some people have many more than that. It's probably hard to believe if you've been gone for 14 seasons, but ask around and you'll see that other players will tell you the same thing.

In fact, some players are ballsy enough to straight up name their alt accounts after their main account. You'll see things on the leaderboards like "Bob.1234" and then roughly in the same rating there is "Not Bob.1234" or something completely obvious. They aren't trying to hide it in many cases, because it's actually not against the TOS to do this. If they purchase accounts in their own actual names, and do not account share, there is absolutely nothing in the TOS that says they cannot own and play multiple accounts. <- That's why everything I was talking about in this thread has gotten so bad as of S17.

The problem started when Arenanet announced & released "Free To Play" accounts. During this period of time, certain core builds were actually very strong within the meta, particularly S/D Core Thieves and Radiant Hammer Core Guardians. EVERYONE started making alt accounts, which were free to create. People were doing it for several reasons at first, that didn't involve any TOS breaking match manipulations. IE: I create a f2p account for the purpose of playing with some of my lower rated friends in ranked, while I keep my main account only queueing with other high rated players whom I know are very experienced. Over the course of time, people began figuring out how easy it was to create these accounts and use them for less savory methods, which I am not going into in this post. I'm tired tonight, and tired of always being the one to explain this. Maybe I'll get around to it in the morning.

[jessiestiles.9437]

That rampant. I remember from season 2 they had about 5 alts. I now realize there is one silver lining. Time spent match fixing is time they aren't spending out stealing handbags from old ladies or similar misdeeds. At least they have a somewhat harmless outlet.