Shield rework/Herald refocus

[Thornwolf.9721]

• Please make shield more effective as it is the core weapon for the elite, It's a shame that its almost completely useless in its current form.
• Turn the bubble heal into a mobile field, perhaps even make it effect those around you and increase the size to guardian level but with rev theme. Allow it to heal for all the damage absorbed and be an AOE push-back similar to how ventari's tablet works with a fusion of its basic theme of being a bastion for allies.
• Take shield four the little traveling orb into something else, I like the idea of it being "Roar of the dragon" Or something which is an AoE burst of some sort. Something that makes shield a good choice while in melee. It could be based on what legend you are running (Mallyx causes conditions, shiro gives everyone tons of life-steal, Glint gives boons and so on.) Could also be a CC or CC break which would be good who knows.

Herald is a group support/tanky bruiser of sorts and I feel its weapon should reflect being such a thing. It should be somewhere between warrior and guardians shield and function with the same level of decent use. Right now its crap and using it really doesn't give the player or those around them a benefit, Its a shame too as shields are thematic and I Feel like revenant could have some cool interactions with their shield. I don't like the idea of being forced to stand still and my off-hand being trash, It makes the elite spec feel cheaper because its not a viable option (Shortbow for Renegade is also in a sad state and has been.)

I like the idea of a trade off but the weapon should be at least viable so it gives more to taking the spec, because as of right now you see either Sword/Sword + Staff or Staff + Hammer which is not horrible but it kind of kills me to see the weapons that came with those specs be trash tier at best. Id love to run a Shield if it was useful, but it really makes me worthless in team fights when I could take Axe or sword as my off-hand and bring so much more to the table. (Don't nerf them, just bring shield up to their level and make it viable for team-play as well viable for use in some way shape or form.)

[Justine.6351]

If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

[Justine.6351]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

[Catchyfx.5768]

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

[narcx.3570]

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Anet Balance team is to Ramsay Bolton, as Revenant is to __.

A. Sansa StarkB. Theon GreyjoyC. Roose BoltonD. Rickon Stark

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Wait ... herald has a shield ???

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

[Aeolus.3615]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.or2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.or2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

I mean thats great and all but it should be intrinsically linked to herald and should have more utility than it does; Its complete shit and just because it "Could/can" work doesn't mean it doesn't feel horrible to use. It also doesn't mean its exempt from needing a rework. It's only two skills so its not like its too much work, literally making it so its more about protecting your party and has bigger pay-offs would be fine.

You're all so afraid of change, I mean sure they botch like 90% of the balance they try to do but later on down the road it ends up fixing itself. I mean rev when it launched was complete crap and hardly functioned after all the nerfs but we all still made it work. The issue is shield is pointless to take when there are other more interesting and powerful options to place in the position it holds. (Id never take shield over ax, not in its current form.)

[Aeolus.3615]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.or2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

I mean thats great and all but it should be intrinsically linked to herald and should have more utility than it does; Its complete kitten and just because it "Could/can" work doesn't mean it doesn't feel horrible to use. It also doesn't mean its exempt from needing a rework. It's only two skills so its not like its too much work, literally making it so its more about protecting your party and has bigger pay-offs would be fine.

You're all so afraid of change, I mean sure they botch like 90% of the balance they try to do but later on down the road it ends up fixing itself. I mean rev when it launched was complete kitten and hardly functioned after all the nerfs but we all still made it work. The issue is shield is pointless to take when there are other more interesting and powerful options to place in the position it holds. (Id never take shield over ax, not in its current form.)

Im not sayign shield should not be touched, its just shield is for defense and team support with shield skill 4, axe is offensive(and its more strong than i ever tough since i starter to use it, but its offensive not always u need offensive spam), i play both actually since i have 3 rev's each own has its own theme and way to play.

I think shield 4 is okish dont need that to be changed or at least to much changed, but shield 5 it could get some QoL skill more in theme with the herald, like a said its usage if for defense and situation where u can use it very a very small niche moments.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Justine.6351 said:If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

-Ramsay Bolton

Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

coughchronomancercough

Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.or2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

I mean thats great and all but it should be intrinsically linked to herald and should have more utility than it does; Its complete kitten and just because it "Could/can" work doesn't mean it doesn't feel horrible to use. It also doesn't mean its exempt from needing a rework. It's only two skills so its not like its too much work, literally making it so its more about protecting your party and has bigger pay-offs would be fine.

You're all so afraid of change, I mean sure they botch like 90% of the balance they try to do but later on down the road it ends up fixing itself. I mean rev when it launched was complete kitten and hardly functioned after all the nerfs but we all still made it work. The issue is shield is pointless to take when there are other more interesting and powerful options to place in the position it holds. (Id never take shield over ax, not in its current form.)

Im not sayign shield should not be touched, its just shield is for defense and team support with shield skill 4, axe is offensive(and its more strong than i ever tough since i starter to use it, but its offensive not always u need offensive spam), i play both actually since i have 3 rev's each own has its own theme and way to play.

I think shield 4 is okish dont need that to be changed or at least to much changed, but shield 5 it could get some QoL skill more in theme with the herald, like a said its usage if for defense and situation where u can use it very a very small niche moments.

Making shield 5 mobile, while effecting your team-mates would be fine. Increasing its heal and maybe making it pulse damage in retaliation each time you are hit could also be good making it more effective as an "Oh shit button" I feel like shield 4 just needs to go, its dumb and could be so many cooler things such as like "Dragons Blast" Which is where you send forth a wave of flame that heals allies and damages enemies. Perhaps even peels conditions and heals based on the conditions it takes from you and allies, while also dishing out decent damage to those who get in your way.

Or maybe "Dragons Roar" Where its a mass AoE cc/stun where you roar with the wrath of glint, sending out a shock-wave that knocks enemies prone? ( It could still offer what it does now just on a larger scale with more utility.) This whole venture is about trying to give the shield less niche, and more oomph so that way its utilized as well offers more to the table. Because outside of full support builds (This is limited to shield 4 because 5 doesn't scale worth a damn anymore.) It kinda just doesn't have a place and needs more so it could fit into build diversity.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:Wait ... herald has a shield ???

And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:Wait ... herald has a shield ???

And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

This is true, I feel its more Rev needs work on idle animations and some effects while idle. As well carrying their weapon because as you said it feels odd and almost like its too close to warrior every class has unique stuff depending on their weapon. We kinda are melee-centric with most of our animations seemingly being borrowed from other sources; Example is why am I carrying my hammer two handed? Im just hurling it in spirit form at people and it could be cool if they used the idea of us simply carrying it in one hand, and not using the same animation we use for staff and that everyone else uses for hammer.

If we are going to be limited with utilities, and weapons. Then let them at least look cool in our hands; Let the rev have some crazy stuff. For example if we ever get great-sword I will ONLY want balthazars animation because it looks cool. Hell I want scepter + Focus on rev so I can use binding of Ipos and have my dark caster, which clearly the necromancer will never be XD. Kidding aside ~ We are going in an okish direction... we just need more

[Lahmia.2193]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:Wait ... herald has a shield ???

And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

This is true, I feel its more Rev needs work on idle animations and some effects while idle. As well carrying their weapon because as you said it feels odd and almost like its too close to warrior every class has unique stuff depending on their weapon. We kinda are melee-centric with most of our animations seemingly being borrowed from other sources; Example is why am I carrying my hammer two handed? Im just hurling it in spirit form at people and it could be cool if they used the idea of us simply carrying it in one hand, and not using the same animation we use for staff and that everyone else uses for hammer.

If we are going to be limited with utilities, and weapons. Then let them at least look cool in our hands; Let the rev have some crazy stuff. For example if we ever get great-sword I will ONLY want balthazars animation because it looks cool. Hell I want scepter + Focus on rev so I can use binding of Ipos and have my dark caster, which clearly the necromancer will never be XD. Kidding aside ~ We are going in an okish direction... we just need more

Oh man. What I would do for Balthazar's GS animation.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:Wait ... herald has a shield ???

And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

i use mace/axe on my renegade/mally, yesterday i wanted to troll so i hop in that toon and was wiping groups of 3-4 players in a few seconds, its quite strong lol even hololames were having digestive issues.IT also has decent healing and vampirics capabilities to supoprt team, 50% condi damage reducing, some resisttence to group and personal.Made it a hybrid between power/heal/condi damage and some crit.

Its by far awkward xD, i imagine it some wuxia characater that praises evil. (/runs away before the good sects arrive)Guys my shiro rev is waiting to receive a GS elite spec as well or daggers ninja :expressionless: but iw ould prefer GS that would make me buy the expantion right away lol..

On topic.One thing we all agree, shield 5 has poor(almost no situation to be used) place in the gameplay, shield 4 needs improvements.

Note: shield 5 on 1vs1 is self kill against most gimmicks due how heavy they hit with unblockables.ATM im only using it when im taking damage at range and i know its blockable damage to restore health and condi clease myself.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:Wait ... herald has a shield ???

And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

i use mace/axe on my renegade/mally, yesterday i wanted to troll so i hop in that toon and was wiping groups of 3-4 players in a few seconds, its quite strong lol even hololames were having digestive issues.IT also has decent healing and vampirics capabilities to supoprt team, 50% condi damage reducing, some resisttence to group and personal.Made it a hybrid between power/heal/condi damage and some crit.

Its by far awkward xD, i imagine it some wuxia characater that praises evil. (/runs away before the good sects arrive)Guys my shiro rev is waiting to receive a GS elite spec as well or daggers ninja :expressionless: but iw ould prefer GS that would make me buy the expantion right away lol..

On topic.One thing we all agree, shield 5 has poor(almost no situation to be used) place in the gameplay, shield 4 needs improvements.

Note: shield 5 on 1vs1 is self kill against most gimmicks due how heavy they hit with unblockables.ATM im only using it when im taking damage at range and i know its blockable damage to restore health and condi clease myself.

lmfao if only we had darker legends to go along with our need for "Darkness" tim curry aside....

I hope that these skills do get some polish. Im afraid of what will happen as we move forward and they fall further behind, as more weapons come out and more reworks take place.

[Shao.7236]

The reason why shield is useless the majority of the time is because nobody makes proper use of it's skills, other than skill 4 that could use a rework to be more effective and consistent because it occasionally fails and the hitbox/AoE is just clunky to work with. A wave like guardian shield 4 instead of a slow moving "unblockable" AoE that ends up deleted by Aegis, while keeping it's same stats.

If you're not using any of those options here which are Mallyx/Ventari/Healing power with shield, you shouldn't use shield period, not even for the cleanses. Shining Aspects is better in that regard since the removal of the internal cooldown. When you use shield you are automatically more viable as a bruiser/support/sidenodder and maybe duelist if you pick your builds right.

Saying that shield is down right useless is really underestimating it, it could be somewhat improved but it has it's niches that provide viable solutions.

[Buran.3796]

@Shao.7236 said:The reason why shield is useless the majority of the time is because nobody makes proper use of it's skills,

When you use shield you are automatically more viable as a bruiser/support/sidenodder and maybe duelist if you pick your builds right.

Saying that shield is down right useless is really underestimating it, it could be somewhat improved but it has it's niches that provide viable solutions.

Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build). Shield have been nothing buth trash for longer that half of the life of this class itself, so at this stage is very natural for any Rev player to entirely ignore the existence of the shield, for good reasons. Is a suicidal option which as a peak skill has a block that roots yourself for 3 seconds in a game full of unblockables. I mained a Guardian for years but didn't craft The Flameseeker because at the time Guard's shield was crap (the focus was the Guardian's shield); then I crafted it for my Rev (because baseline HoT Rev shield was amazing) and in less than a year was stacking dust, whereas the Guardian shield became vastly improved... Oh the irony...

[Shao.7236]

@Buran.3796 said:

@Shao.7236 said:The reason why shield is useless the majority of the time is because nobody makes proper use of it's skills,

When you use shield you are automatically more viable as a bruiser/support/sidenodder and maybe duelist if you pick your builds right.

Saying that shield is down right useless is really underestimating it, it could be somewhat improved but it has it's niches that provide viable solutions.

Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build. Shield have been nothing buth trash for longer that half of the life of this class itself, so at this stage is very natural for any Rev player to entirely ignore the existence of the shield, for good reasons. Is a suicidal option which as a peak skill has a block roots yourself for 3 seconds in a game full of unblockables. I mained a Guardian for years but didn't craft The Flameseeker because for years Guard's shield was kitten; then I crafted it for my Rev and in less than a year was stacking dust, whereas the Guardian shield became vastly improved... Oh the irony...

Shield is carrying me up to platinum 2, I ain't complaining about it. Playerbase is too straight forward and not creative enough with Revenant options. That's all I can say.

[LucianDK.8615]

What would you lot think of the shield in a pve role? From open world to raid/fractals.I had a second look at Shining aspects and it appears most interesting now for much needed sustain. Just a shame that Draconic Echo competes with Forceful Persistence when Herald Revenant pve damage already is too low to even think of giving it up.