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[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)


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Im on bloodhoof in NA, Appreciate the offer. I still have to sort why it says half my purchased storyline chapters give me a message that their paid for but contact customer support. I'll run some lower zones for awhile perhaps and try and get my rotation sorted, I cant seem to move and fight effectively any longer, too many games with different controls I suppose to blame and my long break from the game. I did not see a way to skip the fight or jump chapters but I'll relog and give it a better look, Thanks for the reply.

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I wholeheartedly disagree with this post. You want the fight to be shorter then get yourself a dps build and practice and get better. The story bosses are pretty much lose proof as you essentially respawn without any real consequences like idk starting over from the beginning it having full hp again. And if you are truly having an issues you can easily ask a guildmate or 4 to help you out. On a side note anet really needs to look at a way to make these encounters replayable. Maybe in a survival mode or even tweak them into being a worldboss. I would love to have joko show up and him having an ultra rare awakened infusion that makes you look awakened.

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The last time I had problems with a boss was Cadecus in LS3, but that was easy enough to power through, and still be half clothed. I was actually disappointed with the fight against kralk, way easier than I thought. If I'm not yelling at my screen, it's too easy, lol.

The only time I ever run into problems 99% of the time, is when I tunnel, and don't pay attention to where I'm supposed to be going, or what I should be doing.

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@"Wandering Mist.2973" said:I'll be honest, when I saw the thread title my first reaction was "seriously? It's not that hard." But thinking back on that scuffy fight in particular I agree it dragged on for 2 long to the point where I did indeed stop caring about Taimi and just wanted to get the fight over with. I had similar issues with the PoF boss fights. After the first couple of minutes of of doing the same action over and over you get very tired of it. I think lowering the boss health pool would be a good thing, while keeping the difficulty up.

Exactly my thought. I can't remember a single story boss which would be really hard. Quite opposite - almost all of the story is boringly easy, to the point I often didn't find enough incentive to continue. It's just that easy it stops being a game (as "press X to win" activity is NOT a game), thus I see no interest in doing it at all, it's boring.

I guess they could add a special mode for story, like "click here to make it dumb easy if you don't want to play a game", but it must be optional.

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@Ellegon Mcleod.5931 said:In some ways I support the OP. Did some bosses on my own and the biggest problem I found was the fact that everything was targeted on you and you were so busy dodging you could no see the tells or anything else. If I looked I could not dodge and then died - if dodged could not look. Yes would like a easy to see hint if you die to often eg your NPC muttering about some stones they saw or something. You still need to do that but helps if feeling swamped and don't want to go to wiki for every battle.

When I was with a friend who was the target I suddenly had a chance to see what was happening outside the spam of attack circles and could start to target some of the weaknesses. Sometimes just a chance to look makes a world of difference.

That's why using some kind of summon helps a lot in such missions. Probably any profession in the game has some way to summon AI controlled punch-bag, there are even racial elite summon skills too.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Lucius.2140 said:Was the same with Rytlock sword and such since the start of the game (Caledborn for example- not sure if the name is right).you mean.. Caladbolg?

@Lucius.2140: Rytlock's sword's name is Sohothin. Caladbolg was Trahearne's sword.

Ye, i know, and there’s also Magdaer, which has been MIA since we lost Eir, and no one else cared enough to collect it

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  • 3 months later...

@"TheUndefined.1720" said:I made this suggestion back in my HoT review, and I'm going to make it here; Stop making PvE story bosses hard. I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. The point where you frustrate your player to quitting is bad game design. I understand, as game developers, you want to make the fight epic - oh no! Taimi suffocating! I care and have to hurry, but I have massive amounts of projectiles, burning, aoe's, and a completely incompetent NPC that DOES NOT use his reflect as he should... that means I don't care about Taimi, I just want to get out of the fight.

So here are some suggestions:

  • Lower the Bosses HP pool: The boss fight is taking way too long, and it is not enjoyable, take down the HP
  • Stop with the rapid fire AoE's AND projectiles: Slow down on the boss's attack
  • Relax on the complicated moves: This isn't a raid, it's a story boss, being solo'd, there's no need to make so difficult
  • Program a better companion: In every fight I did during LS4 (Sunspears, Corsairs, the rag tag team, Braham) they stopped attacking and just stood there.. seriously during the inquest swarm they all just stood there

I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

I know that this is a little late, but AMEN on your observations.

When you have squishy characters (and the jerks who are modelling these stories KNOW there are squishy characters) - the 'intensity' level of these areas needs to be staggered based on a person's stats and character - not put top tier raid bosses in stories and expect for players to 'enjoy' their content. Honestly, I have been seeing a trend here too - and I think the sick sobs that design these "stories" love to sit back and J.O. to the idea that the vast majority of players come out of them totally nude with completely broken EQ.. Or - just LAZY DMs who say, "lets throw a lvl 99 boss against a lvl 1 chr, its ok - they'll get through it".. That , along with putting story quest lines in meta areas , which you can't even reach if the events are going on ; unless a group is there to clear it out for you (can't drag others along in your story, so no one's gonna clear it just so you can get in there) .. It's dumb, and irresponsible planning.

Most MMORPG players walk away from games/content like this, not because the game itself isn't fun, but because the content is not consistent with a person's play style - or the mechanics are so vastly different from other MMORPGs that it makes many people just lose interest. They are fashioning their content around the whole 'group/guild' idea, when there's plenty of us who like to solo and just come on for a good time to grind and level... RPG means the content should be more focused around an actual D&D or AD&D metric system. Sure, I am not going to be going in to storm large metas by myself - BUT the equipment, and the stat structures SHOULD provide me with the ability to 'feel' like I am genuinely contributing if I decide to come in to one.. Again, squishy characters - you know what I am talking about. Its all and fine when you are 1-80, and just roaming around and doing core content - but after that, it's like "ok, what now" - even with PoF and HoT content added; it begins to just become senseless once you have all the mounts, have all the glider skills, and find that the ascended equipment, and legendary equipment do not really bolster any significant increase to your core stats; over exotic. So most players are asking the question "So now what" .. and moving on to another MMORPG, which is also why - GW2 has been losing tons of people, maps are empty of players (and their bots have to keep begging people to shift to another), and alot of times there isn't even enough people on to do the metas consistently in popular grind areas... Elitists of the game, don't bother replying - because you know as well as I do, GW2 is not populated anywhere near the way it was when the core came out - fact: people are just not interested in a MMORPG that is not really enjoyable or interesting to play past 80, and the expansions equal to nothing more than glam and prizes . So while you might enjoy grinding your heart out , other than getting in game gold and finishing collections; you're not going to be getting any better equipment, or any greater achievements except ranks on the leaderboards - and you know it.

If the programmers were genuinely interested in keeping people's interest peaked - GW3 would already be released linking to GW2 .. But they're not.. 7 years and counting to a unique / but mainly dead MMORPG. Sadly, WoW has them beat hands down as far as content release.. And I hate Blizzard games.

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I gave away all the living stories years ago, simply because they arnt fun.Just a mindless keyboard mashing exercise that goes on and on and eventually Ill probably win , but its just a fight of attrition where you slowly wear down some super monster after multiple retries from checkpoints and consuming multiple repair canisters.There seems to be a mindset in this game that all the activities MUST be challenging, whatever that means , but challenging to me means its not fun.

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Playing together with a neurodivergent partner, story has become more and more stressful over time.

I'm not sure I'd want boss damage orreduced attack speed reduced, but a few things would be nice:

  • Making the fights less busy. Just needing a second more to process sensory input than "normal" makes a lot of fights way harder. Add to that the barrage of effects (AoE circles, sounds, light flashes, etc) making it hard to see what is actually relevant and you have incredibly stressful fights.
  • Shorter instances, and/or clearer checkpoints. If we've fought through half an hour of stuff, it feels less bad to smash our head against the wall for an unknown while longer than exit, take a short break and try again when that might mean having to do it all again. If I could get a clear message about where I'll pick up if I left, I'd be much more inclined to experiment.
  • Lower boss HP would be nice to avoid drawn out fights, but I think the problem isn't really there. Instead I think it's the enormous disparity between average and good players that's the problem.

Of course there should be a difference, but when good (not even top tier) players deal 5-6 times as much damage as average (not even mediocre) players, fights will inevitably cause tedium - good players blow through "burn phases" in 10 seconds and gets stopped by mechanics, while it takes average players minutes because of the inflated HP pool.

Reduce the difference to a "mere" 2-3 times as much damage and the fights will probably be much easier to balance for a middle ground.

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Since back in 2013, fights became easier and easier, would like harder fight like scuffy in episode 1 of ls4, I know it's a story, but tuning even more down the bosses isn't a good thing. Or as a compromise, we could have a challenge mote before starting boss, you decide if you want the easy path with infinite rez and not hard or the tough path with a little more achievments for the ones seeking difficulty.

Frankly anything is difficult if you aren't understanding the mechanics, remember exterminator outcry? It isn't that hard you just have to stay in close combat...

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Story bosses already got heavily nerfed during/after PoF after HoT and LWS3. Story bosses aren't even that bad, as long as you get the mechanics, and if you need help, just get one more player to help and its enough (unless you're going for achievements/challenge mode, for which you just need to get 2-3+ more players). I did PoF solo on my squishy core ele (although 1 or 2 times fighting with no armor left) and with several other core builds (didn't even break any armor on my ranger and revenant), so I definitely don't think we need more nerfs than have already been done. Otherwise it would just be a bunch of bash 1 solo fights, which would be boring with no challenge at all.

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Once you understand the mechanics of each boss the fights are easy. (as someone was trying to argue) It has absolutely nothing to do with how much dps a new player vs a veteran player puts out. The first time I fight a boss in new LW episodes I struggle, because sometimes the mechanics just don't "click" for me, but once I do figure it out it's easy-mode.

Story mode bosses are not hard in this game. Their mechanics may be a bit ridiculous to figure out at first, but they aren't game breaking, so please, quit trying to make the game so easy that it's not even remotely challenging for anyone.

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:No one said pve bosses should be easy that would defeat the purpose of even having bosses

Yes. But defeating them should be doable. This is a story. Story. Not a raid, Not a frac, not a dungeon, it is a story!!!!!

Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

Arenanet needs to find one of their employee's sainted grannies, the type of granny who bakes cookies and pinches your cheek, seat her in front of the living story and make sure she can complete it.

If she can, it is a wrap.

Lisa-groused about this very thing all the way through the survey

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They already made it impossible to lose story fights, it was their compromise between putting players to sleep if it's too easy and making it tough to complete if it's too hard. With the ability to return and continue the fight from where you left off all players have their chance to beat the story.

@Julischka Bean.7491 said:Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

The first instance of the game yes, as it is a tutorial. Expansion content though? Why should higher level, and expansion level content, be of the same difficulty as the tutorial? You are supposed to learn from tutorials and improve, that's their purpose.

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@Julischka Bean.7491 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:No one said pve bosses should be easy that would defeat the purpose of even having bosses

Yes. But defeating them should be doable. This is a story. Story. Not a raid, Not a frac, not a dungeon, it is a story!!!!!

Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

Arenanet needs to find one of their employee's sainted grannies, the type of granny who bakes cookies and pinches your cheek, seat her in front of the living story and make sure she can complete it.

If she can, it is a wrap.

Lisa-groused about this very thing all the way through the survey

That is all nice but now you make it sound like players has no option whatsoever, other than being shoehorned into using only offensive utilities with offensive skills with offensive weapons, with no knowledge whatsoever of what to do.

And well you know, we have many options.Sadly, so few seem to care about it or even worse, to know about.

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@Haishao.6851 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:this thread is evidence, that the content IS the problem....but even if it wasnt...what then?that would mean, that they have made the right game for the wrong people, yes?

I need to nail these 2 planks together but my no matter how hard I smash my kitchen sink on the nails I just can't seem to do the job. Something must be wrong with the nails.

i didnt pay for the rights to nail planks, i bought a game, that was sold as the game for EVERYBODY.

Every games are sold for everybody who wants to play games.

so, any player should play be able to play ALL games? do you even know, what you are talking about?there are differences you know...i would never touch a soccer game
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@flog.3485 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:No one said pve bosses should be easy that would defeat the purpose of even having bosses

Yes. But defeating them should be doable. This is a story. Story. Not a raid, Not a frac, not a dungeon, it is a story!!!!!

Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

Arenanet needs to find one of their employee's sainted grannies, the type of granny who bakes cookies and pinches your cheek, seat her in front of the living story and make sure she can complete it.

If she can, it is a wrap.

Lisa-groused about this very thing all the way through the survey

That is all nice but now you make it sound like players has no option whatsoever, other than being shoehorned into using only offensive utilities with offensive skills with offensive weapons, with no knowledge whatsoever of what to do.

And well you know, we have many options.Sadly, so few seem to care about it or even worse, to know about.

shoehorned is what we have now...one size fits all.this is actually harder , than many other mmos end game content..i can raid in dcuo, and get 2-3 gear upgrades with much less effortbut of course i have to pay a sub fee for that privilege

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Two points here:- Firstly, the mechanics are often poorly signposted, with illogical invulnerability phases and massive AOE effects. It's not easy to work out what you need to do when you're dodging/healing/kiting.Secondly, DPS isn't everything. If I want to play a build focused on boon-sharing, or healing allies, I should be able to and still have a decent chance of getting through an instance. The fact that I can't implies that the encounter isn't designed fairly. Perhaps that's the flaw in the underlying GW2 mechanics.

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