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Bad performance with new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x


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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The fact you get better performance than your old rig in other games has nothing to do with GW2 and it being single thread bottlenecked because it is based on the DX9 API.

Just to correct this mistake here: DX9 can be very well multi-threaded, you don't need updated versions of DirectX to make a multi-threaded game. Games using all cores have been around for a very long time before DirectX 12 was even announced yet for some reason this idea exists that DX12 is the multi-threaded version and previous versions were single thread bottlenecked.

DX9's render pipeline is single threaded. DX9 can indeed use more than a single core, however the processes and functions are single threaded as DX9 is not default thread safe, while DX10 and on is. Meaning if you do add a multithreaded flag to make the DX9 API thread safe, you will run into significant synchronization overhead.

Well DX9 was the primary API used in XBOX360 (directx 10 didn't exist before its release) and it used multiple cores on DX9 game engines just fine. Take a look at CryEngine 3 which is a mostly DirectX 9 engine developed specifically to be multi-threaded in order to run on consoles that had lower single core performance than desktop PCs of the time. Even if there is an overhead, GW2 would benefit greatly from being multi-threaded, without the need for a different API. It all depends on which one is harder to develop I guess, a DX9 multi-threaded engine or a DX10 multi-threaded engine and I have no clue about that.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The fact you get better performance than your old rig in other games has nothing to do with GW2 and it being single thread bottlenecked because it is based on the DX9 API.

Just to correct this mistake here: DX9 can be very well multi-threaded, you don't need updated versions of DirectX to make a multi-threaded game. Games using all cores have been around for a very long time before DirectX 12 was even announced yet for some reason this idea exists that DX12 is the multi-threaded version and previous versions were single thread bottlenecked.

DX9's render pipeline is single threaded. DX9 can indeed use more than a single core, however the processes and functions are single threaded as DX9 is not default thread safe, while DX10 and on is. Meaning if you do add a multithreaded flag to make the DX9 API thread safe, you will run into significant synchronization overhead.

Well DX9 was the primary API used in XBOX360 (directx 10 didn't exist before its release) and it used multiple cores on DX9 game engines just fine. Take a look at CryEngine 3 which is a mostly DirectX 9 engine developed specifically to be multi-threaded in order to run on consoles that had lower single core performance than desktop PCs of the time. Even if there is an overhead, GW2 would benefit greatly from being multi-threaded, without the need for a different API. It all depends on which one is harder to develop I guess, a DX9 multi-threaded engine or a DX10 multi-threaded engine and I have no clue about that.

I already covered why they used DX9 a number of time including this thread (see post 7). GW2 was planned to be ported to xbox, and keeping the API close meant easy porting.

You don't seem to understand that having something that can use more than one core and a process or thread that can't be multithreaded due to synchronization issues are not the same thing. GW2 is heavy CPU bound, the games on xbox are not the same as GW2, they were also designed with xbox in mind from the start. xbox port was abandoned because they could not achieve the performance needed, and to release on xbox means hitting specific performance metrics. Just because one game can reach higher frames with a single threaded render pipeline has nothing to do with GW2 being able to do the same.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Braile.3894 said:IPC of the 3900x is higher at the same clock speeds than a 9900kNo it's not. And that's your problem. You think AMD is competitive to Skylake / Coffee Lake (both is bascally the same architecture) in terms of IPC. But I can not blame you as most hardware reviewers are not competent enough to write a good CPU test. The Intel IPC is still 10% higher than AMD in games. Add the higher clock speeds of the CPUs (up to 5GHz, while AMD clocks at least 10% lower) and you get your 20% performance difference.

is that before or after all those performance lowering patches you need on intel to plug the architectural holes Intel opened up?

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@"Tony.8659" said:But Arenanet can invest in the game and try to use a similar approach like the dx12 program I linked. I'm sure they can do a much better job with that. I mean if WoW can do it, I'm sure Arenanet can do something. Example of WoW with DX12: https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/278587-new-world-of-warcraft-optimizations-send-directx-12-performance-soaring

if Anet is going to do it, it will be done properly, at the engine level

Ignoring the amount of development effort (time and money) required to reengineer a decade old engine ...

... who's going to test it? it's not cheap to hire people to test over 8 years of code, and Anet does not have the amount of human resource pool and money Blizzard can afford to burn upfront... and GW2 does not have as big as WoW brand tag to get support from Microsoft development team to assist them all the way with DX12 optimisation on Windows 7 (DX12 only got released early this year for Windows 7)

I'm happy if Anet will just continue to push the game to its limit the game engine can, in the background they build a brand new game with new engine, or use 3rd party engine like UE4

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@Braile.3894 said:Hello, I switched today from my 3 year old intel core I7 6700k to a brand new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x.My problem is, performance dropped a lot.In other applications i got performance gains or atleast the performance wasn’t noticeable worse.

Is there any workaround or is there a optimization patch planned?I tried to assign the cores separately to gw2 but that didn’t help.

Hi!

Are you running, your ryzen processor in Ryzen High perfromance mode? if not please try it.

Windows button -> select energy scheme(mirror translation from hungarian) -> then change it from balanced to high perfromance, if you are not seeing ryzen high perfromance or ryzen balanced only just the 3 basic energy modes then google the problem

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@"Hannelore.8153" said:Uhm, I'm a game developer myself, since nearly 20 years, so there's no real point in trying to correct me.

I can tell you that the graphics engine in GW2 consists of thousands upon thousands of files, mostly shader scripts, including duplicate versions for many different but similar hardware configurations, in order to minimise visual glitches. Its not as easy as it may seem, because it was an old game, ported from the GW1 engine (2001), we're talking Warcraft 3-era technology at its base.

It would take them hundreds of man-hours in order to rewrite all of the shader code-let alone the graphics engine itself, to a new API version, which they have stated themselves is why there is no OpenGL engine in the Windows version (e.g for use on Wine), because despite one being developed for the modern Mac client, just using an API is only a small piece of the puzzle.

We're talking about a game in which they can't even add backpiece and weapons dyes because its a hardcoded graphics pipeline, where something that most people would consider simple has been stated to be "impossible", let alone anything more complex.

IKR, the offical api of d3d12 basically ends with, you need quite a lot of changes to fully utilize the features of d3d12 from d3d11, now imagine this from 9 lol

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@Menyus.4610 said:

@Braile.3894 said:Hello, I switched today from my 3 year old intel core I7 6700k to a brand new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x.My problem is, performance dropped a lot.In other applications i got performance gains or atleast the performance wasn’t noticeable worse.

Is there any workaround or is there a optimization patch planned?I tried to assign the cores separately to gw2 but that didn’t help.

Hi!

Are you running, your ryzen processor in Ryzen High perfromance mode? if not please try it.

Windows button -> select energy scheme(mirror translation from hungarian) -> then change it from balanced to high perfromance, if you are not seeing ryzen high perfromance or ryzen balanced only just the 3 basic energy modes then google the problem

Hi yes ofc i do that,, temps are also completely fine, it’s properly the gw2 engine which is the bottleneck.

Overall my low 1% gone up in gw2 but it’s still really sad that sometimes Iam only getting 40 FPS when the cpu sits at 20% and the gpu at 45%.

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@Braile.3894 said:

@Braile.3894 said:Hello, I switched today from my 3 year old intel core I7 6700k to a brand new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x.My problem is, performance dropped a lot.In other applications i got performance gains or atleast the performance wasn’t noticeable worse.

Is there any workaround or is there a optimization patch planned?I tried to assign the cores separately to gw2 but that didn’t help.

Hi!

Are you running, your ryzen processor in Ryzen High perfromance mode? if not please try it.

Windows button -> select energy scheme(mirror translation from hungarian) -> then change it from balanced to high perfromance, if you are not seeing ryzen high perfromance or ryzen balanced only just the 3 basic energy modes then google the problem

Hi yes ofc i do that,, temps are also completely fine, it’s properly the gw2 engine which is the bottleneck.

Overall my low 1% gone up in gw2 but it’s still really sad that sometimes Iam only getting 40 FPS when the cpu sits at 20% and the gpu at 45%.

Intresting indeed, on my 3700x im seeing 260 fps :/

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@Menyus.4610 said:

@Braile.3894 said:Hello, I switched today from my 3 year old intel core I7 6700k to a brand new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x.My problem is, performance dropped a lot.In other applications i got performance gains or atleast the performance wasn’t noticeable worse.

Is there any workaround or is there a optimization patch planned?I tried to assign the cores separately to gw2 but that didn’t help.

Hi!

Are you running, your ryzen processor in Ryzen High perfromance mode? if not please try it.

Windows button -> select energy scheme(mirror translation from hungarian) -> then change it from balanced to high perfromance, if you are not seeing ryzen high perfromance or ryzen balanced only just the 3 basic energy modes then google the problem

Hi yes ofc i do that,, temps are also completely fine, it’s properly the gw2 engine which is the bottleneck.

Overall my low 1% gone up in gw2 but it’s still really sad that sometimes Iam only getting 40 FPS when the cpu sits at 20% and the gpu at 45%.

Intresting indeed, on my 3700x im seeing 260 fps :/

What, how and where? Can you please post your settings + a screenshot of your FPS, sorry I can’t believe any cpu can handle gw2 at 260 fps

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@Braile.3894 said:

@Braile.3894 said:Hello, I switched today from my 3 year old intel core I7 6700k to a brand new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x.My problem is, performance dropped a lot.In other applications i got performance gains or atleast the performance wasn’t noticeable worse.

Is there any workaround or is there a optimization patch planned?I tried to assign the cores separately to gw2 but that didn’t help.

Hi!

Are you running, your ryzen processor in Ryzen High perfromance mode? if not please try it.

Windows button -> select energy scheme(mirror translation from hungarian) -> then change it from balanced to high perfromance, if you are not seeing ryzen high perfromance or ryzen balanced only just the 3 basic energy modes then google the problem

Hi yes ofc i do that,, temps are also completely fine, it’s properly the gw2 engine which is the bottleneck.

Overall my low 1% gone up in gw2 but it’s still really sad that sometimes Iam only getting 40 FPS when the cpu sits at 20% and the gpu at 45%.

Intresting indeed, on my 3700x im seeing 260 fps :/

What, how and where? Can you please post your settings + a screenshot of your FPS, sorry I can’t believe any cpu can handle gw2 at 260 fps

Settings and fps on image

Pc Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 3700x constant 4.2ghz

RAM: Kingston Predator 3200mhz rbg HX432C16PB3AK2/16 16gb

MOB: Gigabyte Gaming wifi 7

GPU: Currently not available for general customers(you wont find info about it), but i can confirm this fps on my beloved gtx 760 direct CUII

Image: https://imgur.com/m9U312n

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@Menyus.4610 said:

@Braile.3894 said:Hello, I switched today from my 3 year old intel core I7 6700k to a brand new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x.My problem is, performance dropped a lot.In other applications i got performance gains or atleast the performance wasn’t noticeable worse.

Is there any workaround or is there a optimization patch planned?I tried to assign the cores separately to gw2 but that didn’t help.

Hi!

Are you running, your ryzen processor in Ryzen High perfromance mode? if not please try it.

Windows button -> select energy scheme(mirror translation from hungarian) -> then change it from balanced to high perfromance, if you are not seeing ryzen high perfromance or ryzen balanced only just the 3 basic energy modes then google the problem

Hi yes ofc i do that,, temps are also completely fine, it’s properly the gw2 engine which is the bottleneck.

Overall my low 1% gone up in gw2 but it’s still really sad that sometimes Iam only getting 40 FPS when the cpu sits at 20% and the gpu at 45%.

Intresting indeed, on my 3700x im seeing 260 fps :/

What, how and where? Can you please post your settings + a screenshot of your FPS, sorry I can’t believe any cpu can handle gw2 at 260 fps

Settings and fps on image

Pc Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 3700x constant 4.2ghz

RAM: Kingston Predator 3200mhz rbg HX432C16PB3AK2/16 16gb

MOB: Gigabyte Gaming wifi 7

GPU: Currently not available for general customers(you wont find info about it), but i can confirm this fps on my beloved gtx 760 direct CUII

Image:

Ok dude i get you, but wtf looking at literally nothing while set everything to the lowest doesn't mean you get 260 fps at normal gameplay.For example ofc i can get the same fps by doing the same stuff looking at nothing, that is not the point of my post because i want the game to be more optimised overall and not when i look at nothing.Check top left corner for fps.pSNjg41.jpgoyopmBh.jpg

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@Braile.3894 said:

@Braile.3894 said:Hello, I switched today from my 3 year old intel core I7 6700k to a brand new AMD Ryzen 9 3900x.My problem is, performance dropped a lot.In other applications i got performance gains or atleast the performance wasn’t noticeable worse.

Is there any workaround or is there a optimization patch planned?I tried to assign the cores separately to gw2 but that didn’t help.

Hi!

Are you running, your ryzen processor in Ryzen High perfromance mode? if not please try it.

Windows button -> select energy scheme(mirror translation from hungarian) -> then change it from balanced to high perfromance, if you are not seeing ryzen high perfromance or ryzen balanced only just the 3 basic energy modes then google the problem

Hi yes ofc i do that,, temps are also completely fine, it’s properly the gw2 engine which is the bottleneck.

Overall my low 1% gone up in gw2 but it’s still really sad that sometimes Iam only getting 40 FPS when the cpu sits at 20% and the gpu at 45%.

Intresting indeed, on my 3700x im seeing 260 fps :/

What, how and where? Can you please post your settings + a screenshot of your FPS, sorry I can’t believe any cpu can handle gw2 at 260 fps

Settings and fps on image

Pc Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 3700x constant 4.2ghz

RAM: Kingston Predator 3200mhz rbg HX432C16PB3AK2/16 16gb

MOB: Gigabyte Gaming wifi 7

GPU: Currently not available for general customers(you wont find info about it), but i can confirm this fps on my beloved gtx 760 direct CUII

Image:

Ok dude i get you, but kitten looking at literally nothing while set everything to the lowest doesn't mean you get 260 fps at normal gameplay.For example ofc i can get the same fps by doing the same stuff looking at nothing, that is not the point of my post because i want the game to be more optimised overall and not when i look at nothing.Check top left corner for fps.
pSNjg41.jpgoyopmBh.jpg

None said i can achieve 260 constant fps especially in crowded regions, btw i was running and near the training npcs is not relly the corner of the map also i ainbt wanted to look the freaking floor cos ofc i can have 300+ fps too, thats why i said im seeing 260 fps, also my avg fps is between 60-160 fps depends on the region

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@"Menyus.4610" said:Settings and fps on image

Pc Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 3700x constant 4.2ghz

RAM: Kingston Predator 3200mhz rbg HX432C16PB3AK2/16 16gb

MOB: Gigabyte Gaming wifi 7

GPU: Currently not available for general customers(you wont find info about it), but i can confirm this fps on my beloved gtx 760 direct CUII

Image: https://imgur.com/m9U312n

Sad part is, if you have such a system and use ultra low settings it's not really worth it

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:The fact you get better performance than your old rig in other games has nothing to do with GW2 and it being single thread bottlenecked because it is based on the DX9 API.

Just to correct this mistake here: DX9 can be very well multi-threaded, you don't need updated versions of DirectX to make a multi-threaded game. Games using all cores have been around for a very long time before DirectX 12 was even announced yet for some reason this idea exists that DX12 is the multi-threaded version and previous versions were single thread bottlenecked.

DX9's render pipeline is single threaded. DX9 can indeed use more than a single core, however the processes and functions are single threaded as DX9 is not default thread safe, while DX10 and on is. Meaning if you do add a multithreaded flag to make the DX9 API thread safe, you will run into significant synchronization overhead.

Well DX9 was the primary API used in XBOX360 (directx 10 didn't exist before its release) and it used multiple cores on DX9 game engines just fine. Take a look at CryEngine 3 which is a mostly DirectX 9 engine developed specifically to be multi-threaded in order to run on consoles that had lower single core performance than desktop PCs of the time. Even if there is an overhead, GW2 would benefit greatly from being multi-threaded, without the need for a different API. It all depends on which one is harder to develop I guess, a DX9 multi-threaded engine or a DX10 multi-threaded engine and I have no clue about that.

Okay I'm not an expert about this but from what I understand is that with dx9 multithreading they done it manually basically each thread was a queue which worked on specific commands which then must be synchronized. With later versions direct X version they took that over and managed it on their own and reduced further and further the overhead this is what stays behind asynchronous commands & shaders in DirectX 12. Means Direct X 12 already use mulit-threading internally at least so far I do understand it.

Means the addon dx9pxy already does this. What you could still do then is the MVC running in different threads ©ontrol means in this case only mouse and keyboard those are from the game perspective read only (m)odel is the what comes from the network and what will be send to it (v)iew is mainly the rendering process which await input from the model. When you looking at this way you can split things for mulit-threading very easily especially since the main logic is on a server not on the client.

Funny fact is with this you can can still process player inputs even when the games totally lags mean even with 0 fps you can still cast your skills.

small rant on the sideOn the other hand in Gw2 when we want to roll with V or press a direction button twice it doesn't take buttons for the direction which is much simpler no it takes the direction you actually running on the screen so when you have a lag and you don't move because of this you end up with a standard roll backwards. Which got countless WvW commanders get into screaming why the hell so many dodged backwards while he said roll through them.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Menyus.4610" said:Settings and fps on image

Pc Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 3700x constant 4.2ghz

RAM: Kingston Predator 3200mhz rbg HX432C16PB3AK2/16 16gb

MOB: Gigabyte Gaming wifi 7

GPU: Currently not available for general customers(you wont find info about it), but i can confirm this fps on my beloved gtx 760 direct CUII

Image:

Sad part is, if you have such a system and use ultra low settings it's not really worth it

I only do pvp and wvw, where bigger fps is quite an advantage....

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@Braile.3894 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:I'm happy if Anet will just continue to push the game to its limit the game engine can, in the background they build a brand new game with new engine, or use 3rd party engine like UE4

totally off topic but i hope not

Yea I hope not as well.. People keep forgetting that engines are an extremely complex piece of tool. So developing one is very complex stuff, if you want to go for versatility the complexity rises probably exponentially.. Like it's moderately easy to develop an engine that runs a superb looking game on 1 console (one of many reasons why some games are console exclusive) but trying to support multiple CPUs, GPUs (even different architectures) and OS with a very wide variety of performance of the rig is extremely challenging. Additionally for a MMO you have to think about a clever way to incorporate clustering and various online mechanics (technology wise, not like ingame features) as well.On top of that it still needs an editor too so you need to provide dedicated pipelines to make the workflow of devs as efficient as possible. So developing an engine is a tough task on its own.And even if you eventually got the engine to a point where you can actually develop a game with it, it's not like your dev team will immediately produce your regular high quality stuff even if they are experienced game developers in general. The best analogy I can think of atm is it like you'd give a trumpet player a trombone and ask him to play.. extremely similar instruments and techniques needed but it's just not quite the same stuff, you still need to learn and practice a lot.

I guess that's also a big reason to why a lot of asian mmos are STILL being developed with UE3 even tho UE4 has been around and very accessible for ages now. Just because those devs know UE3 and training them for UE4 is probably not really worth it for a MMO since you need a ton of content to begin with and quick update cycles.

@topic:yea.. GW2 isn't multicore friendly and this information has been around for ages, you'd want to go for max single core performance and in this regard Intel takes the cake in general. But then again not EVERY intel cpu will run well obviously - intel also develops different cpus for different applications and stuff.. an i9 would be a complete waste of money if your concern is running gw2 smoothly for example. You'd probably even be better off with a good i5 then.Get a good quad or hexa core cpu (I mean.. you won't optimize for gw2 alone let's be honest, but even a good quad core cpu is still sufficient for 99% of the games out atm and I don't think it will change very fast..) with the highest possible frequency, ideally overclockable, get a good cooling system and a matching, high frequency RAM and since nobody has mentioned it already: make sure your mainboard supports those speeds as well. Like.. if your mainboard can only support 2133MHz your 3600MHz RAM won't do anything for you.

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@DoomNexus.5324 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:I'm happy if Anet will just continue to push the game to its limit the game engine can, in the background they build a brand new game with new engine, or use 3rd party engine like UE4

totally off topic but i hope not

Yea I hope not as well.. People keep forgetting that engines are an extremely complex piece of tool. So developing one is very complex stuff, if you want to go for versatility the complexity rises probably exponentially.. Like it's moderately easy to develop an engine that runs a superb looking game on 1 console (one of many reasons why some games are console exclusive) but trying to support multiple CPUs, GPUs (even different architectures) and OS with a very wide variety of performance of the rig is extremely challenging. Additionally for a MMO you have to think about a clever way to incorporate clustering and various online mechanics (technology wise, not like ingame features) as well.On top of that it still needs an editor too so you need to provide dedicated pipelines to make the workflow of devs as efficient as possible. So developing an engine is a tough task on its own.And even if you eventually got the engine to a point where you can actually develop a game with it, it's not like your dev team will immediately produce your regular high quality stuff even if they are experienced game developers in general. The best analogy I can think of atm is it like you'd give a trumpet player a trombone and ask him to play.. extremely similar instruments and techniques needed but it's just not quite the same stuff, you still need to learn and practice a lot.

I guess that's also a big reason to why a lot of asian mmos are STILL being developed with UE3 even tho UE4 has been around and very accessible for ages now. Just because those devs know UE3 and training them for UE4 is probably not really worth it for a MMO since you need a ton of content to begin with and quick update cycles.

@topic:yea.. GW2 isn't multicore friendly and this information has been around for ages, you'd want to go for max single core performance and in this regard Intel takes the cake in general. But then again not EVERY intel cpu will run well obviously - intel also develops different cpus for different applications and stuff.. an i9 would be a complete waste of money if your concern is running gw2 smoothly for example. You'd probably even be better off with a good i5 then.Get a good quad or hexa core cpu (I mean.. you won't optimize for gw2 alone let's be honest, but even a good quad core cpu is still sufficient for 99% of the games out atm and I don't think it will change very fast..) with the highest possible frequency, ideally overclockable, get a good cooling system and a matching, high frequency RAM and since nobody has mentioned it already: make sure your mainboard supports those speeds as well. Like.. if your mainboard can only support 2133MHz your 3600MHz RAM won't do anything for you.

You don't have to code each GPU or CPU in a game engine, that's the point of the D3D API and GPU drivers, no one programs games at that low of a level, not even DX12. The game engine will use a given D3D API, which means the game engine out puts to those standards and features, of which the drivers of the GPU then handle for processing if the GPU is compatible with that version of DX. Which is one of the reason MMO's are SUPER slow to move to anything new, as the bulk of most MMO players are not serious players and often don't build a PC for gaming or have much older hardware, so adopting the newest standards would stop most of the people who are playing MMO's, without building/upgrading their computers. It is only pretty recent that most computers have HW that supports DX12, and most of that is due to Intel and AMD iGPUs and not dedicated GPUs. So moving to something new like DX12 at the time of release would mean huge loss in sales or having to maintain compatibility to older DX versions, which would be a nightmare.

Another thing about game engines is that most devs are lazy/cheap, they don't want to move away from something they have whole libraries for, UE3 also had a straight licensing deal, most bigger games I think it was often still under $1 million for it, but most were closed door deals and no one paid the same. UE4 also has licensing costs but also includes a royalty on each game sold, something like 5%, meaning it can end up costing WAY more than UE3 ever did, in GW2 case from the sales numbers I have seen, UE4 would cost them over 3 fold what a UE3 license would have. It's a really smart move for Epic, as it's a continuous pay model for games, not just a one time deal. But there are MANY factors on why a game dev picks one engine over another, and in most cases, it's because of cost, unless you are talking tripple A games with massive budgets

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:I'm happy if Anet will just continue to push the game to its limit the game engine can, in the background they build a brand new game with new engine, or use 3rd party engine like UE4

totally off topic but i hope not

Yea I hope not as well.. People keep forgetting that engines are an extremely complex piece of tool. So developing one is very complex stuff, if you want to go for versatility the complexity rises probably exponentially.. Like it's moderately easy to develop an engine that runs a superb looking game on 1 console (one of many reasons why some games are console exclusive) but trying to support multiple CPUs, GPUs (even different architectures) and OS with a very wide variety of performance of the rig is extremely challenging. Additionally for a MMO you have to think about a clever way to incorporate clustering and various online mechanics (technology wise, not like ingame features) as well.On top of that it still needs an editor too so you need to provide dedicated pipelines to make the workflow of devs as efficient as possible. So developing an engine is a tough task on its own.And even if you eventually got the engine to a point where you can actually develop a game with it, it's not like your dev team will immediately produce your regular high quality stuff even if they are experienced game developers in general. The best analogy I can think of atm is it like you'd give a trumpet player a trombone and ask him to play.. extremely similar instruments and techniques needed but it's just not quite the same stuff, you still need to learn and practice a lot.

I guess that's also a big reason to why a lot of asian mmos are STILL being developed with UE3 even tho UE4 has been around and very accessible for ages now. Just because those devs know UE3 and training them for UE4 is probably not really worth it for a MMO since you need a ton of content to begin with and quick update cycles.

@topic:yea.. GW2 isn't multicore friendly and this information has been around for ages, you'd want to go for max single core performance and in this regard Intel takes the cake in general. But then again not EVERY intel cpu will run well obviously - intel also develops different cpus for different applications and stuff.. an i9 would be a complete waste of money if your concern is running gw2 smoothly for example. You'd probably even be better off with a good i5 then.Get a good quad or hexa core cpu (I mean.. you won't optimize for gw2 alone let's be honest, but even a good quad core cpu is still sufficient for 99% of the games out atm and I don't think it will change very fast..) with the highest possible frequency, ideally overclockable, get a good cooling system and a matching, high frequency RAM and since nobody has mentioned it already: make sure your mainboard supports those speeds as well. Like.. if your mainboard can only support 2133MHz your 3600MHz RAM won't do anything for you.

You don't have to code each GPU or CPU in a game engine, that's the point of the D3D API and GPU drivers, no one programs games at that low of a level, not even DX12. The game engine will use a given D3D API, which means the game engine out puts to those standards and features, of which the drivers of the GPU then handle for processing if the GPU is compatible with that version of DX. Which is one of the reason MMO's are SUPER slow to move to anything new, as the bulk of most MMO players are not serious players and often don't build a PC for gaming or have much older hardware, so adopting the newest standards would stop most of the people who are playing MMO's, without building/upgrading their computers. It is only pretty recent that most computers have HW that supports DX12, and most of that is due to Intel and AMD iGPUs and not dedicated GPUs. So moving to something new like DX12 at the time of release would mean huge loss in sales or having to maintain compatibility to older DX versions, which would be a nightmare.

Another thing about game engines is that most devs are lazy/cheap, they don't want to move away from something they have whole libraries for, UE3 also had a straight licensing deal, most bigger games I think it was often still under $1 million for it, but most were closed door deals and no one paid the same. UE4 also has licensing costs but also includes a royalty on each game sold, something like 5%, meaning it can end up costing WAY more than UE3 ever did, in GW2 case from the sales numbers I have seen, UE4 would cost them over 3 fold what a UE3 license would have. It's a really smart move for Epic, as it's a continuous pay model for games, not just a one time deal. But there are MANY factors on why a game dev picks one engine over another, and in most cases, it's because of cost, unless you are talking tripple A games with massive budgets

This is one of the reason but win 7(which also have dx12 since the start of this year) support ends next year and every win 10 system needs a dx12 compatible graphic cards which is a pre requirement for installing win 10.

Just be short I'm absolute would love to see an overwork of gw2 engine but I also know its complicated. One other reason is possible money it would roughly takes 5 people a half year to do this . Which properly means the mother concern NSC soft has also to say about this . They will most likely only get an okay for this when they plan to evolve the engine even further for NSC to make a platform out of this for all future desktop MMOs out of this meaning they will not stop there what I said they will make it open world compatible by implementing a gcc ( you wouldn't do this for gw 2 but basically make forge after all needed stuff is implemented) which then continue the project out side of gw2.

The other problem is getting personal which can program in dx9 and dx12 there aren't much people who can do this because every one using unity , unreal or just blender were the work is done for you.

There is also the problem with dx12 you will need to use a new version of visual studio I know from others that people who maintaining games on dx9 are mostly(perhaps not?) stucked with Visual studio 2008 for using dx12 you will need the newest version of Visual Studio . Back then a lot of libraries from MS were a lot more their own thing instead of the ANSI standard, auto conversion of the project usually always fail when you try to immigrate it to a newer version of VS so you have to setup the whole project manually per hand starting just from the code and then change 'some' line of code( some = in the 100ths lines) and looking up with google what they have done to the library . -.- yes I done something like this before .. a few times. The benefit of this you also have access to all new libraries , better compiler optimization , better debug tools, better code highlighting

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