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Quickbrand + Alacrity renegade - who is typically the healer?


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@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:If you have blatant bias and are just trying to "win" an argument, we're going to notice. We're not stupid. The following line proves it.

@"melandru.3876" said:

also, the bench (snowcrows) uses diviner trinkets (3 of them) which are in fractals not needed due to potion convertion, again increasing fb actual dps not reflected in the benchmark

The really big detail that you're leaving out here is that this is also true for alacrigade. Standing with no buffs, a full diviner Alacrigade sits at 88.9% boon duration, which earns about one second of spare time between Orders From Above and when alacrity falls out. However, inside of fractals and using potions, you can swap out the entire diviner armor set for berserker armor, getting 79.53% boon duration. This duration is enough so that alacrity ends out just as Orders From Above comes of cooldown.

This, among many other factors, is why Alacrigade is also nebulously "way higher than 23k". Now, the idea of "what is true for thee may be true for me" is not some secret doctoral-level philosophy. It's common sense. Any reasonable person should've taken it into consideration that, if the fractal potions let you swap out pieces on Firebrand, it would also let you swap out pieces on Renegade. So, the only conclusion I can come to is that
you're not reasonable.
You're drumming up whatever you can, regardless of any practicality or truth to what you say, because you're goal here isn't to figure out which one is better.

lol

the only difference is: an alacnade actually needs the boon duration to upkeep alacrity. fb can go full zerk and still keep quickness up

but by all means, educate me!

https://discretize.eu/builds/guardian/hybrid-firebrand

vs

https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade

it seems you theorycraft (and test) better than actual dedicated speedclear guild?, because by the looks of it..you do require near full diviner (1 humble zerker piece on alacnade lol? ye that will sure boost dps by alot)

on skorvald you run jalis instead of shiro, so rip "dps"on mama you run jalis instead of shiro, so rip "dps"

on no pain no gain, you run malyx instead of shiro, so rip "dps"

golem test < actual scnerario

the fb golem test is not even correct, as they said so themselves : ". Epilogue Ashes of the Just should be used but is a DPS loss on the golem." the more allies, the higher the effect. but sincr the test was done alone, it wasn't used. small detail, still valid

but what would you know right, i now remember you. you are the guy that claimed herald was amongst the best dps because it could grt numbers by only autoattacking compared to dedicated dps classes that require a rotation

it all makes sense now, then you call me biased...riight

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@Asum.4960 said:But really, hFB doesn't lose much at all by providing Quickness. On the contrary, when I don't have to do quickness as hFB, I feel like my slots are wasted on completely redundant skills and Traits which I don't need to keep people alive and topped up.

Can you expand on this for me a bit? Happened just the other night, I was already set up as Power Quickbrand DPS, and then one of my party switched to Healbrand. Would it have been better for me to swap to pure DPS or was it better that I stay Quickbrand so the other player could just focus on the other boons/heals?

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Asum.4960 said:But really, hFB doesn't lose much at all by providing Quickness. On the contrary, when I don't have to do quickness as hFB, I feel like my slots are wasted on completely redundant skills and Traits which I don't need to keep people alive and topped up.

Can you expand on this for me a bit? Happened just the other night, I was already set up as Power Quickbrand DPS, and then one of my party switched to Healbrand. Would it have been better for me to swap to pure DPS or was it better that I stay Quickbrand so the other player could just focus on the other boons/heals?

Swap.Doing Quickness changes pretty much nothing for hFB and at most frees up a Utility Slot for a gimmick like Merciful Intervention which is not needed, as well as Traits for more Tome pages, which keep you in the Tome for too long to cover other boons like Might and Fury with weapon skills, as well as providing more Prot and Regen on Tome Skills, which you already have 100% uptime on as hFB.There really isn't any reason not to cover Quickness as Healbrand, so full DPS should have been fine, with a Quickbrand being pure redundancy.

@melandru.3876 said:big advantage of fb, he can swap dh precast traps, swap fb and have some nice extra damage

And that might be great for single boss speed kills for a fancy YT video, but is completely unpractical in any normal daily clear, with all the setup time of changing around Trait lines, reselecting Utilities (even with templates) and recharging Mantras negating any additional speed you get from faster boss kills over all.

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@melandru.3876 said:

@melandru.3876 said:everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

@melandru.3876 said:i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

See what I did there?

If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

If you are running ventari you are not running:
  • dwarv for stability
  • mallyx for boon removal

If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker waryou give up literally nothing

Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

because i have to follow your rules.

is it about healer comps, or not.

Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

glad i'm in charge of my groups then

fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dhthe group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such compsgood groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes plsif you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

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@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@melandru.3876 said:everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

@melandru.3876 said:i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

See what I did there?

If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

If you are running ventari you are not running:
  • dwarv for stability
  • mallyx for boon removal

If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker waryou give up literally nothing

Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

because i have to follow your rules.

is it about healer comps, or not.

Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

glad i'm in charge of my groups then

fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dhthe group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such compsgood groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes plsif you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

no GG was used tho, as could be seen

precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.the real challenge is speedclears

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@melandru.3876 said:

@melandru.3876 said:everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

@melandru.3876 said:i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

See what I did there?

If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

If you are running ventari you are not running:
  • dwarv for stability
  • mallyx for boon removal

If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker waryou give up literally nothing

Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

because i have to follow your rules.

is it about healer comps, or not.

Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

glad i'm in charge of my groups then

fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dhthe group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such compsgood groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes plsif you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

no GG was used tho, as could be seen

precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.the real challenge is speedclears

I said that because skill reset were initial a part of GG they moved it then to the mistlock after the mentioned complains about it. A simple fix would be turn GG off and reset the skills when all player dies.

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@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@melandru.3876 said:everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

@melandru.3876 said:i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

See what I did there?

If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

If you are running ventari you are not running:
  • dwarv for stability
  • mallyx for boon removal

If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker waryou give up literally nothing

Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

because i have to follow your rules.

is it about healer comps, or not.

Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

glad i'm in charge of my groups then

fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dhthe group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such compsgood groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes plsif you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

no GG was used tho, as could be seen

precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.the real challenge is speedclears

I said that because skill reset were initial a part of GG they moved it then to the mistlock after the mentioned complains about it. A simple fix would be turn GG off and reset the skills when all player dies.

infact dps could be alor faster if what you said happened. imagine the weaver casting fgs, then everyone gg's and repeat untill everyone has a fgs.5 precasted fgs on top of the innitial burst, a bit overkill but sure fun.

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@melandru.3876 said:

@melandru.3876 said:everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked)

power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand

power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed)

divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls

what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share.

@melandru.3876 said:i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand.quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps

I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade.Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run.

See what I did there?

If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before.

If you are running ventari you are not running:
  • dwarv for stability
  • mallyx for boon removal

If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage.

As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing.

If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage.

warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol

put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker waryou give up literally nothing

Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior?

since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker?

No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer?

This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient.

because i have to follow your rules.

is it about healer comps, or not.

Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer.

If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal.

so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times

glad i'm in charge of my groups then

fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dhthe group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such compsgood groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting.precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes plsif you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong

Sry I thought about it 2 days what I could say about it you guys do alot of thing which nearly all goes back to be able to reset you skills. This has nothing to do what people understand as normal gameplay. You didn't need a healer because the boss wasn't able to do much dmg in such a short time and the main dmg phases didn't even trigger.In fact if I would do something like this in another MMO the admins mouse would hover over the ban button right now. This is not new people complaining about the abusive character of skill reset since the introduced it into fractals with GG.

I believe what Arena.NET doesn't understand is bosses in fractals have less HP point then the ones in raids but in fractals you also have fractals potions and fractal titles enabling people with to overstack through skill reset is just the one point too much which you have proven. I also say you guys know your classes and mechanic otherwise this couldn't work but its not the same pressure 99% of the other groups go through when doing 99cm.

Basically you took a challenge mode and turned it into a joke

no GG was used tho, as could be seen

precasting of banners/traps, then resetting cooldowns with mistlock as is intended by anet, then free to swap builds/utilities as banners last 60 seconds anyway

a simple fix would be: when you remove a utility from your bar, it also gets removed from play. untill that happrns, this is what you will see

not like challenge mode, is challenging to start with.the real challenge is speedclears

I said that because skill reset were initial a part of GG they moved it then to the mistlock after the mentioned complains about it. A simple fix would be turn GG off and reset the skills when all player dies.

infact dps could be alor faster if what you said happened. imagine the weaver casting fgs, then everyone gg's and repeat untill everyone has a fgs.5 precasted fgs on top of the innitial burst, a bit overkill but sure fun.

Yes this was the way GG was the only different is you must now stay /have the spawn point in front of a mistlock. In theory you could GG still allow in down state but isn't their some potions which gives your poison could they move a level 80 character into down state ?

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