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Do You Like the Trait System?


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I like it. It's significantly better than the original 70-point trait system.I still remember the good old: 30-20-10-0-10 and such.Every 5 points was a minor trait and every 10 points was a major trait.Then having to unlock the traits with trait books from the NPCs.Yes, this system is definitely superior!

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They both have their boons and drawbacks.While you had more options and versatility with the old system, the new one offers way better trait synergies, since you can go as "deep" as you want to in each traitline (even if you can only chose 3 lines).

I think I prefer the current one as well.

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@DonArkanio.6419 said:Hey there,

I want to post this question as I saw some interesting stuff on the forums here according Trait System.

So, the questions - What do you think of the Trait System? Do you like it or not?

The specialization system was a massive upgrade from the old trait system. There is not complaint or problem there.

The problem is the balancing decisions to massively power creep the game after introducing that new specialization system.

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I prefer the old trait system, allowed to build very specifically rather than the lazy templates we have now being limited to only 3 trait lines.It also helped add to power creep... old system you can max on 2 grandmaster traits if you chose to dump 30 points in 2 trait lines but people rarely did... now we all have 3 grandmaster traits by default.

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The trait system, since its inception and implementation from launch, has probably done the most damage to GW2 as a spawning pool for a globally generic playstyle which has possessed each class and smothered any sort of means for player expression:

  • They are passive procs which are often not fully under the control of the players who equip them
  • Very, very, very few of them actively change any skills in any way whatsoever
  • Nearly all are generic benefits and promote no interesting or new way of utilizing already-existing skills
  • Many often passively create fight advantages or negate the effort of opponents without any sort of input or change in playstyle

It doesn't matter how restrictive or free the customization of this trait system is for players: every single aspect of it promotes nothing but increasingly bland gameplay. Quite effectively, the only impact that traits have on GW2 (from a viewer, shoutcaster, or new player perspective) is that they obfuscate combat interactions and often lead to "What just happened?" or "Why didn't [X] work like it should have?" situations. GW1 attribute system or bust basically. Traits, as applied in GW2 (whether at launch or now), are trash.

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The overall design of the current trait system is far better than the old trait system. However, the execution of the new trait system leaves much to be desired.

The old trait system could only give an illusion of choice. In reality, it was about taking as much "low-hanging fruit" as possible - the traits at adept and master levels, including minor traits, which gave the biggest benefit. Grandmaster traits were rarely chosen unless they were build-defining. Traits were rarely placed according to their actual power, and half the adept traits were absolute filler garbage which no person with more than a week of play time would ever pick. Tying stats to the trait lines also made little sense; professions which had the power traits in a line with the more useful stats had an advantage. This system was also a balance nightmare; the developers needed to balance each trait against every other trait. It was far too many permutations.

The design of the new system rectifies all these problems. Trait lines can all have a cohesive theme or purpose with each choice accomplishing it in different ways. Mutual exclusion in slots allows for powerful, interesting choices because you can no longer have two of them. The number of trait permutations is reduced, which makes balancing easier to accomplish. The fact that players complain they can't get all the low-hanging fruit is proof that the idea is working and forcing choices.

What failed was the execution of that new system. In most cases, traits were just left in the same places they were previously instead of related traits being pulled into the same line. The usefulness of mutual exclusion in each master trait slot went largely unused; there was a clear best choice in almost every slot. Some lines were too narrowly focused - they were only good if you built around one or two specific abilities.

The new system also caused power creep for which there was no counter-balance. The new trait system is like having at least 18 points in the old system (it only gave you 14). In many cases it was more because many old traits were combined or baked into the base abilities. Completely removing a master trait slot (3 minors + 2 majors) may is something which should have been considered to allow a more streamlined purpose and reduce the number of abilities which need to be created; players would have fewer but more meaningful choices and developers would have less abilities to design and balance.

As an aside, the amulet system was mishandled from the start of the game. PvP needed more stat customization (a power build cares about at least 4 stats - yet you can only get a meaningful amount in 3 stats), but instead developers removed choice. The 4-stat amulets in HoT were also a bad choice to address this problem. The 4-stat amulets increased the total of stats compared to using combinations of 3-stat amulets, which is pure power creep.

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@"Swagg.9236" said:The trait system, since its inception and implementation from launch, has probably done the most damage to GW2 as a spawning pool for a globally generic playstyle which has possessed each class and smothered any sort of means for player expression:

  • They are passive procs which are often not fully under the control of the players who equip them
  • Very, very, very few of them actively change any skills in any way whatsoever
  • Nearly all are generic benefits and promote no interesting or new way of utilizing already-existing skills
  • Many often passively create fight advantages or negate the effort of opponents without any sort of input or change in playstyle

It doesn't matter how restrictive or free the customization of this trait system is for players: every single aspect of it promotes nothing but increasingly bland gameplay. Quite effectively, the only impact that traits have on GW2 (from a viewer, shoutcaster, or new player perspective) is that they obfuscate combat interactions and often lead to "What just happened?" or "Why didn't [X] work like it should have?" situations. GW1 attribute system or bust basically. Traits, as applied in GW2 (whether at launch or now), are trash.

That's true. I, myself, hate the passive procs. Random lightning bolts or Condi-removals by just attacking. These go unnoticed during the combat as they just simply "happen". I would like to see a lot more Traits working like Guardian's Glacial Heart. I know it's been nerfed but the idea is the most fair. You take the trait, your skill changes.

At the moment, current traits are mostly just bonus numbers while wielding weapon. Or, your weapon pierces, or Venom lasts longer. This is just boring and I could see GW2 having a lot more versatility if only one Traitline could be used at a time. Imagine the variations! Lots of numbers hould be fixed, but I think that could be an interesting concept.

I agree with what you're saying. Traits provide uninteractive gameplay mechanics that are mostly passive benefits to the class. We might as well change those for the Race / Clas specific premanent buffs like:

  • Thieves have +200 Precision
  • Guardians have +200 Healing Power
  • Rangers have + 200 something
  • Elementalists have +20 All
  • and so on...
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@"Exedore.6320" said:The overall design of the current trait system is far better than the old trait system. However, the execution of the new trait system leaves much to be desired.

The old trait system could only give an illusion of choice. In reality, it was about taking as much "low-hanging fruit" as possible - the traits at adept and master levels, including minor traits, which gave the biggest benefit. Grandmaster traits were rarely chosen unless they were build-defining. Traits were rarely placed according to their actual power, and half the adept traits were absolute filler garbage which no person with more than a week of play time would ever pick. Tying stats to the trait lines also made little sense; professions which had the power traits in a line with the more useful stats had an advantage. This system was also a balance nightmare; the developers needed to balance each trait against every other trait. It was far too many permutations.

The design of the new system rectifies all these problems. Trait lines can all have a cohesive theme or purpose with each choice accomplishing it in different ways. Mutual exclusion in slots allows for powerful, interesting choices because you can no longer have two of them. The number of trait permutations is reduced, which makes balancing easier to accomplish. The fact that players complain they can't get all the low-hanging fruit is proof that the idea is working and forcing choices.

What failed was the execution of that new system. In most cases, traits were just left in the same places they were previously instead of related traits being pulled into the same line. The usefulness of mutual exclusion in each master trait slot went largely unused; there was a clear best choice in almost every slot. Some lines were too narrowly focused - they were only good if you built around one or two specific abilities.

The new system also caused power creep for which there was no counter-balance. The new trait system is like having at least 18 points in the old system (it only gave you 14). In many cases it was more because many old traits were combined or baked into the base abilities. Completely removing a master trait slot (3 minors + 2 majors) may is something which should have been considered to allow a more streamlined purpose and reduce the number of abilities which need to be created; players would have fewer but more meaningful choices and developers would have less abilities to design and balance.

As an aside, the amulet system was mishandled from the start of the game. PvP needed more stat customization (a power build cares about at least 4 stats - yet you can only get a meaningful amount in 3 stats), but instead developers removed choice. The 4-stat amulets in HoT were also a bad choice to address this problem. The 4-stat amulets increased the total of stats compared to using combinations of 3-stat amulets, which is pure power creep.

Well, that's mostly the problem of the current trait system IMO. It is a better execution than the older version but brings a lot more powercreep to the table.

I wonder how would it feel if each class had Traits that actually changed or enhanced single Weapon skills rather than the entire set of weapons. Having more 10% more Venom duration is probably cool but how does it affect your gameplay?I think that we have some cool options now and the Trait system is yet to be reworked once more. I am hoping that the Devs will look into it as it's clearly not the best there is.The amulet system in PvP favors boring and pre-set choice where you aren't able to mix your build. Since the best option for DPS is 99% of time Marauder (You can't change that), the Amulets which give no HP stats are close to useless because who wants to run with 11K HP while some classes can just take it with 1 skill?

Perhaps the future Season 5 is going to bring more positive changes to the PvP table.

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@TheBravery.9615 said:the new system allowed for more traits to be selected, thus heavy power creep.

Would like to add to my original comment though; I prefer the current system better because while not perfect, it also allowed for more flexibility in build choices. The older system was more limited.

They could just do a gamewide reduction on all stats to offset the power creep

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No, because in most cases it feels like my build is preselected for me by Anet. Trait choices are (usually) very obvious to the point that they are not really choices at all. It takes away RPG elements from MMORPG in my humble opinion.

(Note: I am not saying that all builds should be available in every game mode, as some will undoubtedly interpret my post)

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I do not like it, I never liked it. It is the ultimate source of unbalance in the game. Traits provide secret power, as well as passive activation of various boons, damage, and mechanics that are much stronger than weapon skills or even utility skills.

All the power of classes come from traits. A lot of time you can't be sure to expect their effect. Maybe warrior is running Defy Pain trait so you are playing around it, but surprise! You played too safe and missed your opportunity to win because he actually didn't run it, or vice-versa scenario.

Traits are the ultimate source of powercreep, all they do is make you more powerful. Traits are also those that basically create condition builds. What is the difference between power builds and condition builds? Traits. Why just not have weapons focus on doing condition damage so you know what to expect?

I would rather if traits do not exist and the game was balanced around weapons and their skills, with more variety of utilities, even swapping a weapon skill to another weapon skill.Traits are the worst mistake Anet created for this game.

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I think it would be best to simply remove the traits cuz all its a really outdated system (in general, not just gw2) and rebalance wep skills/utility skills after it. But that is not going to happen not bc its impossible (it would be actually fairy easy) but laziness on their part.

Literally when looking at traits its all either cd reduction, special small effects etc. All of it can be put into current base and adjusted after as necessary. Elite specs could be changed into dual class system to alter profession so thats not an issue either

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