Jump to content
  • Sign Up

What are Guardian's biggest flaws?


Arklite.4013

Recommended Posts

@Kulvar.1239 said:Lowest HP, Low mobility.

These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

The only other thing I would consider negative, and that is running GS + Scepter/Focus, is that your cleave is tied to GS2. I find in open world metas like Thunrderhead Keep, etc, I can tag a lot more mobs on my Daredevil, Scourge, Warrior or even Herald. It's not a huge problem, but that is why I typically bring different characters out for HoT metas, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Lowest HP, Low mobility.

These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

Is it though? I have not seen any evidence that indicate that guardian will be over powered with better mobility at all. Except for FB.

Actually, here is a quick comparison of heavy armored classes sustain:

Rev and warrior have way better mobility and actual skills that allow you to get out of combat.Both rev and warrior have better tools to avoid damage. Both have more than 1 evade skill, and ironically, both have much better tools to block damage.Both have significantly better CC (PvP at least).Guardian has better healing, due to LoW, but that does not exactly translate in PvP. Still guardian leads in healing there.Guardian has better condi removal, but support FB for a team can solve this issue for most classes. And guardian is a poor side noder.Then of course both have higher HP pools. Significantly higher. Warrior at 19K and rev herald (only comparison that matter) at 17K.

It does not even come remotely close, unless of course you are playing FB. FB solves majority of these issues. You go from limited damage avoidance to pumping aegis like no tomorrow. You go from limited CC to multiple CCs (extremely effective using sage FB).

In PvE mobility does not matter much and HP pool is not a significant issue. However, anywhere in PvP guardian is at a severe disadvantage, unless (I know I sound like a broken record now) you are playing FB.

@Celestia.9128 said:

@"otto.5684" said:2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

VoC idea: if they only want us to block only one attack, how about make it like
?

Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Lowest HP, Low mobility.

These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

The only other thing I would consider negative, and that is running GS + Scepter/Focus, is that your cleave is tied to GS2. I find in open world metas like Thunrderhead Keep, etc, I can tag a lot more mobs on my Daredevil, Scourge, Warrior or even Herald. It's not a huge problem, but that is why I typically bring different characters out for HoT metas, etc.

After balance patch sword is very close to szeptre. Sword has good cleave. I switched to sword for open world before bad now you can play it everywhere,the teleprt is nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"otto.5684" said:Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

I mean you don't have to copy verbatim Shield of Force from GW1. You can make it like Full Counter with only 1.5s duration. It is balanced by the fact that VoC has waayyy longer CD than FC, and the fact that unblockables still go through it. As for tell, you can probably just copy and paste that giant shield animation from GW1.

Or another idea is make it like Bonetti's Defense. It will block for like 2-2.5s, but if you use any other skill aside from dodge-roll (be it weapon or utilities), it will end.

Just some ideas that I think would be beneficial w/o being too overpowered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides what people have already mentioned (mobility/HP), in a PvE point of view:Too long cooldowns on core utilities even with -20% traits (shouts, meditations, consecrations).Too long cooldowns on Virtues AND some weapon skills (45 seconds on Longbow 5 is absolutely disgusting, 35 sec Focus 5, 20 sec on Scepter 3 just because it has immobilize despite being a crappy skill in PvE, and so on).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@otto.5684 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Lowest HP, Low mobility.

These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

Is it though? I have not seen any evidence that indicate that guardian will be over powered with better mobility at all. Except for FB.

Actually, here is a quick comparison of heavy armored classes sustain:

Rev and warrior have way better mobility and actual skills that allow you to get out of combat.Both rev and warrior have better tools to avoid damage. Both have more than 1 evade skill, and ironically, both have much better tools to block damage.Both have significantly better CC (PvP at least).Guardian has better healing, due to LoW, but that does not exactly translate in PvP. Still guardian leads in healing there.Guardian has better condi removal, but support FB for a team can solve this issue for most classes. And guardian is a poor side noder.Then of course both have higher HP pools. Significantly higher. Warrior at 19K and rev herald (only comparison that matter) at 17K.

It does not even come remotely close, unless of course you are playing FB. FB solves majority of these issues. You go from limited damage avoidance to pumping aegis like no tomorrow. You go from limited CC to multiple CCs (extremely effective using sage FB).

In PvE mobility does not matter much and HP pool is not a significant issue. However, anywhere in PvP guardian is at a severe disadvantage, unless (I know I sound like a broken record now) you are playing FB.

@otto.5684 said:2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

VoC idea: if they only want us to block only one attack, how about make it like
?

Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

Could not disagree more about warrior (can't speak well enough of rev) having more access to avoiding damage.I

Guardian is loaded with aegis and protection. They are both available through multiple traits, weapons, and utilities. Warrior doesn't even come close to the amount of defense that guardian has access to.

Not sure about what evades you are talking about... Ensure pain? on the other hand, guardian also has blind, blocks.

Sorry, I love my guardian where it is now. I would take guardian any day for mitigation over warrior.

If there was anything I would fix about guardian, it would be with all low hp classes: bump their health up more. It is much more limiting to gear choices than it should be, and this is true for thief and especially ele.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mea.5491 said:Besides what people have already mentioned (mobility/HP), in a PvE point of view:Too long cooldowns on core utilities even with -20% traits (shouts, meditations, consecrations).Too long cooldowns on Virtues AND some weapon skills (45 seconds on Longbow 5 is absolutely disgusting, 35 sec Focus 5, 20 sec on Scepter 3 just because it has immobilize despite being a crappy skill in PvE, and so on).

This is SO true about core CDs...

Hopefully they give it a once over like core Necro shroud skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:Lowest HP, Low mobility.

These are the main ones, but to be fair, without those negatives, the profession would be overpowered. I play every profession except Ele (I suck at piano) and the utility toolkit the Guardian has access to is amazing, especially in supporting allies., while burst damage is very competitive.

Is it though? I have not seen any evidence that indicate that guardian will be over powered with better mobility at all. Except for FB.

Actually, here is a quick comparison of heavy armored classes sustain:

Rev and warrior have way better mobility and actual skills that allow you to get out of combat.Both rev and warrior have better tools to avoid damage. Both have more than 1 evade skill, and ironically, both have much better tools to block damage.Both have significantly better CC (PvP at least).Guardian has better healing, due to LoW, but that does not exactly translate in PvP. Still guardian leads in healing there.Guardian has better condi removal, but support FB for a team can solve this issue for most classes. And guardian is a poor side noder.Then of course both have higher HP pools. Significantly higher. Warrior at 19K and rev herald (only comparison that matter) at 17K.

It does not even come remotely close, unless of course you are playing FB. FB solves majority of these issues. You go from limited damage avoidance to pumping aegis like no tomorrow. You go from limited CC to multiple CCs (extremely effective using sage FB).

In PvE mobility does not matter much and HP pool is not a significant issue. However, anywhere in PvP guardian is at a severe disadvantage, unless (I know I sound like a broken record now) you are playing FB.

@otto.5684 said:2) Core, VoC must get buffed. One aegis every 45 secs was not good in 2012. And before anyone mentions virtues, not all builds use virtues and SoC and ToC can also can use virtues and they are insanely better.

VoC idea: if they only want us to block only one attack, how about make it like
?

Not a fan of passive CC play. It acts like SB full counter, which is terrible design. At least full counter has a clear tell and limited duration. If Anet just improves its functionality to block/reduce damage things will be okay.

Could not disagree more about warrior (can't speak well enough of rev) having more access to avoiding damage.I

Guardian is loaded with aegis and protection. They are both available through multiple traits, weapons, and utilities. Warrior doesn't even come close to the amount of defense that guardian has access to.

Not sure about what evades you are talking about... Ensure pain? on the other hand, guardian also has blind, blocks.

Sorry, I love my guardian where it is now. I would take guardian any day for mitigation over warrior.

If there was anything I would fix about guardian, it would be with all low hp classes: bump their health up more. It is much more limiting to gear choices than it should be, and this is true for thief and especially ele.

I am not sure if you do not know or you are serious. And this is clearly PvP focused. Both core and DH can run no more than 4-5 blocks in a 30 sec window. Either focus or shield, VoJ or SoJ. And the blocks are only 1 attack block, which leaves you extremely vulnerable to focus fire. And the max protection you can get is from virtue and shield. Maybe 15% uptime.

SB sPvP meta build has 2 sec every 30 on endure pain. 0.75 sec every 8 sec, GS 3. 3 sec continuous block every 25 sec from shield. And of course full counter. Then if you consider endurance generation from might makes right and tether, you can easy dodge once every 3-3.5 secs.

Only FB has the ability to block damage reliably. But FB, outside of support, is not exactly stellar (for other reasons).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Opopanax.1803 said:Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

Yeah, strength and SB, just couldn't tell if defense vs discipline.

Just think it is strange to compare core and dh vs SB.

Mostly, the thread was about general weaknesses of guardian, and he lead in with less defenses than warrior. Really though, he is just talking about only the most viable, full offense core and DH builds that aren't picking defensive traits.

Personally I think it is poor advice to tell someone about weaknesses of the guardian that they have poor evasion/block/defense when you are really only talking about 2 builds in particular. Guardian is one of, if not the most defensive profession in the whole game. The biggest thing holding them back is their super low hp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

Yeah, strength and SB, just couldn't tell if defense vs discipline.

Just think it is strange to compare core and dh vs SB.

Mostly, the thread was about general weaknesses of guardian, and he lead in with less defenses than warrior. Really though, he is just talking about only the most viable, full offense core and DH builds that aren't picking defensive traits.

Personally I think it is poor advice to tell someone about weaknesses of the guardian that they have poor evasion/block/defense when you are really only talking about 2 builds in particular. Guardian is one of, if not the most defensive profession in the whole game. The biggest thing holding them back is their super low hp.

Yeah. I have both classes. I wish my warrior had as many blocks as a guardian does, and on my guardian I wish I had the mobility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guardian may have a larger number of defensive skills when compared to Warrior.

However...Most of Guardians defenses scale badly with number of opponents. Blinds and Aegises are only good against single opponents as the effect is consumed on the next attack, especially Aegis as you can only ever have 1 Aegis on you at a time. Blind is a bit more useful in that regard as it scales better with number of foes.Focus 5 only blocks 3 attacks before expiring. Mace 3 is essentially an Aegis.

Warriors Shield Block lasts for 3 seconds no matter how many opponents you have, or how many times you get hit. It's as effective vs 10 people as it is vs 1, assuming there's no Unblockable attacks present. When traited it also reflects and grants you Might, and it's on a low cd. This weapon skill is more valuable and useable than RF, an Elite skill, is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Yannir.4132 said:especially Aegis as you can only ever have 1 Aegis on you at a time. Blind is a bit more useful in that regard as it scales better with number of foes.Focus 5 only blocks 3 attacks before expiring. Mace 3 is essentially an Aegis.

yes it is a bad design. i rembember i had the exact same problem with my guardian druid in wow cata ( thy fixed it. Aegis should work like absorb )you create a shield/aegis and every small hit removes it.so for example you fighting 2 enemies. the first one hits you for 100 the 2nd for 10k. Aegis is gone after the 100hit and you receive a full 10k hit.thats really bad gamedesign.

but thats how gw2 balance works. its broken since release and i dont believe they ever gonna fix any problems.for example Chak event. you get 15k oneshots, because small things hit you and then the something big.oneshoting is a great gamedesign. every game should have it /sarcasmoff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:Now that you have clarified that you are only talking core and dragonhunter builds only in pvp, could you also specify what warrior build you are talking about? Id really like to compare.

He implied Spellbreaker GS + X/shield. Probably Str - mid mid Def top top top SpB - top mid.

Do not forget that a Guardian has an elite with 3 sec invulnerable that recharges Virtues and can be traited to heal. Let me tell you how much it sucks to fight someone that can go invulnerable for 3 seconds and with a few 0 cast skills fully heal themselves. Granted a FB does that WAY better.

Yeah, strength and SB, just couldn't tell if defense vs discipline.

Just think it is strange to compare core and dh vs SB.

Mostly, the thread was about general weaknesses of guardian, and he lead in with less defenses than warrior. Really though, he is just talking about only the most viable, full offense core and DH builds that aren't picking defensive traits.

Personally I think it is poor advice to tell someone about weaknesses of the guardian that they have poor evasion/block/defense when you are really only talking about 2 builds in particular. Guardian is one of, if not the most defensive profession in the whole game. The biggest thing holding them back is their super low hp.

I am a bit late, but two builds? Dude, that is the entirety of guardian dps builds in sPvP and using 6/7 lines. What else is left but FB support?! (Condi core and DH do not count cuz these hardly count as builds and much worse than power alternatives).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...