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Thank you for temporarily blocking CI trait in PvP


BadMed.3846

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@BadMed.3846 said:This trait had been causing lot of grief and thanks for not waiting till the next balance patch for taking action. Such swift action to block out of control mechanics is highly appreciated.

June 23, 2015 Specialization update:Updated this trait to reflect the introduction of the specialization mechanic.After interrupting a foe, gain 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds and apply a second random boon to yourself.took em 4 years, if you consider that quick then lul.

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My fellow mezzies, please tell me how this build was being used in a degenerate way in PvP. (I don't play sPVP anymore since PoF, because of time to play factors) Maybe some vids? I can't find anything on youtube. I've of course kept up with the threads about it on the forum and tinkered with it briefly in WVW and went back to my Inspiration-Illusions Mirage. Yeah, it had some interesting stuff there but how was it being used in a degenerate way? Were mesmers going Invis and dropping combos and porting their friends in for 4v1 body stomp fest or something crazy? Idk. It seems that the fix hammer on this was harsh. Albeit, all of WVW for instance suffered perma invis backstab thieves for an eon. Now that's degenerate. Insta die with zero chance to defend or see the approach. And no, I'm not trolling thieves, i play one too. Just saying that was just nasty stuff to do that could fall in the category of 'degenerate.' (I did it twice and was like, why? where's the fun of the battle? moving back to S/D)

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@MesmerizedNYC.2479 said:My fellow mezzies, please tell me how this build was being used in a degenerate way in PvP. (I don't play sPVP anymore since PoF, because of time to play factors) Maybe some vids? I can't find anything on youtube. I've of course kept up with the threads about it on the forum and tinkered with it briefly in WVW and went back to my Inspiration-Illusions Mirage. Yeah, it had some interesting stuff there but how was it being used in a degenerate way? Were mesmers going Invis and dropping combos and porting their friends in for 4v1 body stomp fest or something crazy? Idk. It seems that the fix hammer on this was harsh. Albeit, all of WVW for instance suffered perma invis backstab thieves for an eon. Now that's degenerate. Insta die with zero chance to defend or see the approach. And no, I'm not trolling thieves, i play one too. Just saying that was just nasty stuff to do that could fall in the category of 'degenerate.' (I did it twice and was like, why? where's the fun of the battle? moving back to S/D)

I don't play a mesmer, but I think I have some ideas on why it was creating degenerate play.The trait, how it functions now, is you immobilize a foe when you interrupt it. On top of that, you also gain a random boon. on top of that, your foe also gains a random condition. The conditions available out of these random conditions are these: Cripple, Chill, or Blind, 3 very strong conditions in the game right now considering how important movement and damage is in this meta. You also 100% gain might 5 might. The random boons available are as follows: Fury, Protection, Regen, Swiftness, or Vigor, all also very strong boons to gain, of course randomly however. No ICD. This in itself is pretty strong, that this can procc multiple times with no cooldown penalty. But that's not all. Now we also have to consider the utilities that most Mesmers in general run on their builds.

The first util is normally used on a power build, but is now also used on the current CI build running condi: Mantra of Distraction. you charge the mantra to gain 2 charges of a skill that dazes and damages instantly, no cast time. That can interrupt skills, so that's 2 interrupts already, and the mantra itself is a 12s CD. a very small cooldown for 2 charges of a skill with no cast time that can interrupt skills. You also don't need to use both charges all at once, you can pocket your next charge and by that time your used up charge might already have came back.

Another skill is Arcane Thievery. You send 3 conditions to your opponent, AND give them slow, a VERY strong condition in the game currently that makes your actions 50% slower. Also, you steal 3 boons from your opponent. So lets say you have might, stability, and protection up. They get all of that while slowing you, allowing for them to pop a quick Mantra of Distraction charge on you pretty much for free, especially if you have no evades left to spend trying to avoid either the mantra charge or Arcane Thievery. Either way, your stability will be gone because if they so happen to pop off a mantra charge on you while you have stability, it takes a stack of stab away, and if all you have is one stack, you are now vulnerable to other types of CC. Not to mention, the Immob that will procc from being dazed will still root you in place, on which they can drop a Chaos Storm on you right then and there.

Chaos storm also causes daze. Which then also causes Immob, and also being inside of a Chaos Storm also proccs random condis on you as well. Also, if Mesmers run Descent into Madness, which I think they do, that's a second Chaos Storm on heal. Sure you can just not stand in the AoE of said skill, but good players will be able to catch you in one at least 1 or 2 times in a fight. Also, Chaos Storm provides random boons to you and allies as well, one including Aegis, so that could potentially be a free block from a counterattack, or 3 free blocks. It's random so who knows. There's also a chance for retaliation, Which could demoralize an enemy from counterattacking at all since they will take damage from attacks onto the Mesmer, as well as the other proccing conditions that are already placed on you.

Then there's Pistol offhand 5, Which stuns on the first target hit, dazes the second target hit, and blinds the third. Duelists discipline further augments pistols by providing bleeding automatically to the pistol skills, which also affects any illusions that use pistol skills. pistol skill 4 summons a phantasm that unloads their pistols onto you, dealing 8x damage (8 stacks of bleed), and a possibility depending on traits to summon another duelist to deal another 8 attacks, for 8 stacks of bleed, including your own attack that damages 3x, totaling a whopping 19 stacks of bleed if i am correct on this. Since the Mesmer runs condis, their condi durations are already increased, so the bleed lasts at least 4.5-5s, resulting in a lot of tick damage, on top of pistol 5 stunning, which interrupts skill casts, dazing the second target, which interrupts skill casts, which immobs, which deals random debilitating condis, which gives you random boons, which also gives you might.

Then there is also Ineptitude, which causes your interrupts to blind foes, and when you blind a foe, you also deal confusion, so there's multiple proccs of blind from all of these sources of skills, which could be a big counterplay to taking damage altogether.

Then there's the shatter skill Diversion, which dazes your foes, which interrupts, which Immobs, which causes random condis, which grants you random boons, which also proccs on each individual clone (if i am correct), which blinds from Ineptitude, which also confuses because you blind, which will also procc individually from clones.

In my opinion, all of this is a bit much.

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@Ghos.1326 very well said in detail. I don't know why so many mesmers think that it was perfectly OK and didn't need a nerf. Again, there are too many mesmers in game today as they've adopted the profession to abuse such traits. I'm sure there are old school mesmers in here who believe a change was definitely required.

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@BadMed.3846 said:@Ghos.1326 very well said in detail. I don't know why so many mesmers think that it was perfectly OK and didn't need a nerf. Again, there are too many mesmers in game today as they've adopted the profession to abuse such traits. I'm sure there are old school mesmers in here who believe a change was definitely required.

nobody says CI was bad, what is bad is preety much every single other trait we have, i personally dont care, gona whoop peoples ass with a different build. keep on whining lad

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:@Ghos.1326 very well said in detail. I don't know why so many mesmers think that it was perfectly OK and didn't need a nerf. Again, there are too many mesmers in game today as they've adopted the profession to abuse such traits. I'm sure there are old school mesmers in here who believe a change was definitely required.

nobody says CI was bad, what is bad is preety much every single other trait we have, i personally dont care, gona whoop peoples kitten with a different build. keep on whining lad

He never said CI was bad either, he pointed that it was a bit overperforming. Reading 101....

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:@Ghos.1326 very well said in detail. I don't know why so many mesmers think that it was perfectly OK and didn't need a nerf. Again, there are too many mesmers in game today as they've adopted the profession to abuse such traits. I'm sure there are old school mesmers in here who believe a change was definitely required.

nobody says CI was bad, what is bad is preety much every single other trait we have, i personally dont care, gona whoop peoples kitten with a different build. keep on whining lad

He never said CI was bad either, he pointed that it was a bit overperforming. Reading 101....

reading 101 compared to understanding 101. if you have shit trait and a very good one, together they are alright. if you remove the amazing one and leave the shit. you are left with shit.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:@Ghos.1326 very well said in detail. I don't know why so many mesmers think that it was perfectly OK and didn't need a nerf. Again, there are too many mesmers in game today as they've adopted the profession to abuse such traits. I'm sure there are old school mesmers in here who believe a change was definitely required.

nobody says CI was bad, what is bad is preety much every single other trait we have, i personally dont care, gona whoop peoples kitten with a different build. keep on whining lad

He never said CI was bad either, he pointed that it was a bit overperforming. Reading 101....

reading 101 compared to understanding 101. if you have kitten trait and a very good one, together they are alright. if you remove the amazing one and leave the kitten. you are left with kitten.

Understanding 101: if something overperforms way too well, it's not in a balanced or fair state. Therefore it needs toned down.Also understanding 101: Claiming something is bad is to claim that it's underwhelming and borderline useless, if not 100% useless.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:This trait had been causing lot of grief and thanks for not waiting till the next balance patch for taking action. Such swift action to block out of control mechanics is highly appreciated.

June 23, 2015 Specialization update:Updated this trait to reflect the introduction of the specialization mechanic.After interrupting a foe, gain 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds and apply a second random boon to yourself.took em 4 years, if you consider that quick then lul.

Before mirage, the trait was actually fairly balanced because mesmer couldn't put out as much instantaneous pressure to combine with its interrupts.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:@Ghos.1326 very well said in detail. I don't know why so many mesmers think that it was perfectly OK and didn't need a nerf. Again, there are too many mesmers in game today as they've adopted the profession to abuse such traits. I'm sure there are old school mesmers in here who believe a change was definitely required.

nobody says CI was bad, what is bad is preety much every single other trait we have, i personally dont care, gona whoop peoples kitten with a different build. keep on whining lad

He never said CI was bad either, he pointed that it was a bit overperforming. Reading 101....

reading 101 compared to understanding 101. if you have kitten trait and a very good one, together they are alright. if you remove the amazing one and leave the kitten. you are left with kitten.

Understanding 101: if something overperforms way too well, it's not in a balanced or fair state. Therefore it needs toned down.Also understanding 101: Claiming something is bad is to claim that it's underwhelming and borderline useless, if not 100% useless.

ehh, since when something being bad means its useless.scepter 1 deals around 700 damage, its fucking bad. doesnt mean im not gonna use it, better to use shitty power then use nothing.and if you agree with their reasoning you should look into the mirror, warriors rampage is OP, lets not nerf it. remove it from the game, that will show them!.holo is broken, fuck it holo cant be played in pvp now lelel. in 3months we will do more nerfs and you will get your power back exept we will remove other things so its not gonna be usable anyways lelele.

as for what was before mirage. cant say what was cuz i didnt play back then, but the fact that mirage didnt exist back then proves nothing, since other broken elites didnt exist as well.

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@BadMed.3846 said:This trait had been causing lot of grief and thanks for not waiting till the next balance patch for taking action. Such swift action to block out of control mechanics is highly appreciated.

They literally just had a balance patch where they did nothing about it, They could have easily slapped an ICD or nerfed some numbers while they figure out what they want to do with it. Instead they removed a trait from the game and gave the same explanation that they did for Smiter's boon back in GW which they never went back to fix.

How is this not raising major red flags for you?

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@"BadMed.3846" said:This trait had been causing lot of grief and thanks for not waiting till the next balance patch for taking action. Such swift action to block out of control mechanics is highly appreciated.

"I don't wanna play smart and learn the game. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh" ffs mate. Don't play PvP then.

/wiki conditions

/wiki resistance

Counterplay is a staple of this game. Stop using brainless tactics and treating this like it's CoD and stop talking about mechanics until you realize that you have everything you need to deal with this and that you're the problem with game balance and why Anet nerfs everything.

Crybabies. If anyone's causing grief, it's you lot.

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@"Vincenzo.3145" said:

"I don't wanna play smart and learn the game. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh" kitten mate. Don't play PvP then.

/wiki conditions

/wiki resistance

Counterplay is a staple of this game. Stop using brainless tactics and treating this like it's CoD and stop talking about mechanics until you realize that you have everything you need to deal with this and that you're the problem with game balance and why Anet nerfs everything.

Crybabies. If anyone's causing grief, it's you lot.

"Counterplay is a staple of this game. Stop using brainless tactics and treating this like it's CoD and stop talking about mechanics until you realize that you have everything you need to deal with this and that you're the problem with game balance and why Anet nerfs everything."

Stability gets ripped by Arcane Thievery or Sigil of Annulment on weapon swap. These two abilities can be used every 20 and 18 seconds respectively, much lower than the cooldowns for most stability/resistance skills. In other words, every time you pop stab/resistance, the mesmer can strip it.

  • If you're fighting a smart enemy, they will wait to use their stunbreaks/stab/resistance for when they need to break stun/clear conditions. So, you're guaranteed at least one free cc if your timing isn't garbage. Then, after they pop their stab/resistance, you can strip it with Arcane Thievery OR Sigil of Annulment. If they happen to have a second source of stab/resistance and they use it, you can strip it again with the one you didn't use. You can activate one of them roughly every 10 seconds if you rotate them properly. Thus, completely denying your enemies' the ability to "counterplay" the damage.
  • If you're fighting a dumb enemy, they will pop their stab/resistance before they need to and you can just wait it out before loading up them up with conditions and CCs.

-the sound of multiple mesmer minds being blown at the exact same time-

You should also read one of my previous posts where I address all the mesmer whining about how "bad" this class is.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/988654#Comment_988654

"Crybabies. If anyone's causing grief, it's you lot."

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:

"I don't wanna play smart and learn the game. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh" kitten mate. Don't play PvP then.

/wiki conditions

/wiki resistance

Counterplay is a staple of this game. Stop using brainless tactics and treating this like it's CoD and stop talking about mechanics until you realize that you have everything you need to deal with this and that you're the problem with game balance and why Anet nerfs everything.

Crybabies. If anyone's causing grief, it's you lot.

"Counterplay is a staple of this game. Stop using brainless tactics and treating this like it's CoD and stop talking about mechanics until you realize that you have everything you need to deal with this and that you're the problem with game balance and why Anet nerfs everything."

Stability gets ripped by
or
on weapon swap. These two abilities can be used every 20 and 18 seconds respectively, much lower than the cooldowns for most stability/resistance skills. In other words, every time you pop stab/resistance, the mesmer can strip it.
  • If you're fighting a smart enemy, they will wait to use their stunbreaks/stab/resistance for when they need to break stun/clear conditions. So, you're guaranteed at least one free cc if your timing isn't garbage. Then, after they pop their stab/resistance, you can strip it with Arcane Thievery OR Sigil of Annulment. If they happen to have a second source of stab/resistance and they use it, you can strip it again with the one you didn't use. You can activate one of them roughly every 10 seconds if you rotate them properly. Thus, completely denying your enemies' the ability to "counterplay" the damage.
  • If you're fighting a dumb enemy, they will pop their stab/resistance before they need to and you can just wait it out before loading up them up with conditions and CCs.

-the sound of multiple mesmer minds being blown at the exact same time-

You should also read one of my previous posts where I address all the mesmer whining about how "bad" this class is.

"Crybabies. If anyone's causing grief, it's you lot."

You also forgot about the optional boon strip on shatter and because shatters also tee hee... pretending like stability and resistance is a counter to this is silly. The only skills that counter this build are warrior stances and their "shake it off shout" and that only goes so far even so that leaves 1.5 classes that counter this play style of the possible 8. if there were realistically 3-4 classes that counter this crazyness (not counting another mesmer itself) and playstyle people wouldn't have a problem with it.Realisticly i count 1: thief and 0.5 being warrior.

The only way for me to even fight a CI using mesmer with a necro is to just run at or away from them and not use any skills until they use a power lock in which i know i have about 3-5 seconds to attack before its not my turn again. This can be several seconds of incoming damage i just have to eat as trying to counter attack or use skills with cast times lead to being double punished by daze and being immobilized making my super limited dodges unusable. Even if i say try to apply stability to myself which is very limited there is no guarantee that arcane thievery, annulment, or boon strip on shatter wont quickly remove it (happens more than you think) So while he tires to call out that stability and resistance are counters (of course they are mechanically speaking) they just are not reliable ones because most or alot of CI builds include tools to easily deal with them. If those defensive boons still pulsed yes they would be counters but only one class has that function now and thats warrior. Everyone else is SoL. I just glad anet is listening for a change this gives me some faith that they are willing to listen to the majority of the community and not ignore something (despite doing it for a few years) CI should have been culled back in the days of chrono if you ask me.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:

"I don't wanna play smart and learn the game. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh" kitten mate. Don't play PvP then.

/wiki conditions

/wiki resistance

Counterplay is a staple of this game. Stop using brainless tactics and treating this like it's CoD and stop talking about mechanics until you realize that you have everything you need to deal with this and that you're the problem with game balance and why Anet nerfs everything.

Crybabies. If anyone's causing grief, it's you lot.

"Counterplay is a staple of this game. Stop using brainless tactics and treating this like it's CoD and stop talking about mechanics until you realize that you have everything you need to deal with this and that you're the problem with game balance and why Anet nerfs everything."

Stability gets ripped by
or
on weapon swap. These two abilities can be used every 20 and 18 seconds respectively, much lower than the cooldowns for most stability/resistance skills. In other words, every time you pop stab/resistance, the mesmer can strip it.
  • If you're fighting a smart enemy, they will wait to use their stunbreaks/stab/resistance for when they need to break stun/clear conditions. So, you're guaranteed at least one free cc if your timing isn't garbage. Then, after they pop their stab/resistance, you can strip it with Arcane Thievery OR Sigil of Annulment. If they happen to have a second source of stab/resistance and they use it, you can strip it again with the one you didn't use. You can activate one of them roughly every 10 seconds if you rotate them properly. Thus, completely denying your enemies' the ability to "counterplay" the damage.
  • If you're fighting a dumb enemy, they will pop their stab/resistance before they need to and you can just wait it out before loading up them up with conditions and CCs.

-the sound of multiple mesmer minds being blown at the exact same time-

You should also read one of my previous posts where I address all the mesmer whining about how "bad" this class is.

"Crybabies. If anyone's causing grief, it's you lot."

You also forgot about the optional boon strip on shatter and because shatters also tee hee... pretending like stability and resistance is a counter to this is silly. The only skills that counter this build are warrior stances and their "shake it off shout" and that only goes so far even so that leaves 1.5 classes that counter this play style of the possible 8. if there were realistically 3-4 classes that counter this crazyness (not counting another mesmer itself) and playstyle people wouldn't have a problem with it.Realisticly i count 1: thief and 0.5 being warrior.

The only way for me to even fight a CI using mesmer with a necro is to just run at or away from them and not use any skills until they use a power lock in which i know i have about 3-5 seconds to attack before its not my turn again. This can be several seconds of incoming damage i just have to eat as trying to counter attack or use skills with cast times lead to being double punished by daze and being immobilized making my super limited dodges unusable. Even if i say try to apply stability to myself which is very limited there is no guarantee that arcane thievery, annulment, or boon strip on shatter wont quickly remove it (happens more than you think) So while he tires to call out that stability and resistance are counters (of course they are mechanically speaking) they just are not reliable ones because most or alot of CI builds include tools to easily deal with them. If those defensive boons still pulsed yes they would be counters but only one class has that function now and thats warrior. Everyone else is SoL. I just glad anet is listening for a change this gives me some faith that they are willing to listen to the majority of the community and not ignore something (despite doing it for a few years) CI should have been culled back in the days of chrono if you ask me.

as a necro, the game is rigged against you from the start my man. against CI its autolose almost as much as mesmer is autolose against thief.try stowing. you also asume that every mesmer lands every MoD, its unrealistic. if everyone landed everything the person with the biggest stick would always win

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@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Teefy.5016 said:so you came here to gloat, on the mesmer forum. i hope you're enjoying the show.

He came here to troll.

It's about relevance. Mesmer forum is not a mesmers' hangout. It's a forum subsection that relates to the game profession Mesmer. So, it fits in nicely here.

Go away with your personal attacks and trolls. My skin is too thick for your needles.

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@BadMed.3846 said:

@Teefy.5016 said:so you came here to gloat, on the mesmer forum. i hope you're enjoying the show.

He came here to troll.

It's about relevance. Mesmer forum is not a mesmers' hangout. It's a forum subsection that relates to the game profession Mesmer. So, it fits in nicely here.

Go away with your personal attacks and trolls. My skin is too thick for your needles.

the sheer fact that you are so upset to roam these forums just to whine on a class means your skin aint as thick as you think :cold_sweat:

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Teefy.5016 said:so you came here to gloat, on the mesmer forum. i hope you're enjoying the show.

He came here to troll.

It's about relevance. Mesmer forum is not a mesmers' hangout. It's a forum subsection that relates to the game profession Mesmer. So, it fits in nicely here.

Go away with your personal attacks and trolls. My skin is too thick for your needles.

the sheer fact that you are so upset to roam these forums just to whine on a class means your sink aint as thick as you think :cold_sweat:

Indeed.

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