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[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)


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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:your "lots" is about 5 % of the playerbase

Source?

compare candy crush to dark souls...that should give you a clue

Compare a money grabbing mobile game to an actual video game? What would such a comparison prove?

Apparently it would prove that only 5% of the GW2 playerbase don't enjoy easy content, even though neither Candy Crush nor Dark Souls has anything to do with GW2. (No, I don't get it either.)

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As a player that loves hardcore and challenging content, I do believe story is meant to be a more casual mode and some of the fights are too long or difficult for that aimed playerbase. They've already made fractals excessively harder over the years so if we want challenging, DPS-dependant content go there and do your CMs daily. The story mechanics are generally pretty easy but some of the boss fights are way too long and tedious

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:your "lots" is about 5 % of the playerbase

Source?

compare candy crush to dark souls...that should give you a clue

Let's be clear that
both
of these franchises make more money than GW2.

..and that the Souls games don't need loot boxes and mount skins to do it.

It also doesn't need permenant maintee cost. But let's ignore those.

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It is an action rpg with arcade elements. So being able to "move and shoot" with some basic platforming and also adapting your build and gear to the situation is part of what you signed up for.You don't go playing a strategy game and complain you have to take strategic decisions.It does bother me when people play a game that has a clear genre and expectations from a player and when they don't like the game they complain to change it instead of finding a game that suits them. If you want interactive story type of game I am sure that those are out there. But please leave the game that we love as it is. The game is quite clear of what set of skills you need to utilize to be successful.I am always ok with different difficult modes. But in a way it does solve that issue with unlimited player re spawns, very generous checkpoints and no mob respawns during story mode.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:your "lots" is about 5 % of the playerbase

Source?

compare candy crush to dark souls...that should give you a clue

Let's be clear that
both
of these franchises make more money than GW2.

..and that the Souls games don't need loot boxes and mount skins to do it.That shows the advantage of having a clearly defined target group, knowing how to pander to that group, and not trying to add to it at the cost of satisfaction of the original players.(There's also no need to spend a ton of money into keeping developing new content over and over again, which is hardly an insignificant factor)
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@"tnarrant.9714" said:To respond to those who say to just optimize your build, I would counter that it would be nice to be able to play a build that is comfortable and fun, and not have to contort to specific builds just to proceed through the story. I play games for fun, not to shoehorn into someone else's ideal build. I'd like to come up with cool build concepts, not ignoring synergies, but not feeling as wedged into some corners.This game offers the ability to change your build any time you like, without penalty, as long as you are out of combat. If you enjoy the buildcraft so much, I fail to see how encouraging you to slot something different to suit a specific encounter is an unacceptable solution.It's certainly not wedging you into anything. Objectively speaking, it is encouraging you to explore other options.I don't want to deny someone the pleasure of build optimizing, but it would be good to have broader choices, and be able to prosper in the story without going full-bore DPS and crit-crazy.Currently all story instances can be face- tanked by even the lowest DPS toons. I can't think of a single story instance that has a DPS check. All that "AoE spam" that gets complained about in this thread hits a lot less hard if you have toughness and/or vitality in your gear. You already have multiple choices, outdamage, evade or mitigate.You can beat any instance on a power daredevil, you can solo them on a Ventari Rev. Even your wacky-one off rifle warriors or meme build core engi can handle any story instance in the game . While I haven't tried, I am sure my healing tempest can solo Hearts and Minds or Confessor's End.I am okay with the idea of either increasing survivability or toning down story bosses a little, while keeping the challenge in fractals and raids and world bosses.Challenge...World Bosses.I mean we are talking about the same "get as big a group together as possible and press 1 a bunch of times" level of Fire Elemental?The only challenge is getting there and getting hits in before the boss goes down. It's among the least challenging content in this game.That would let more people enjoy the story and accompanying things like mounts without watering down the whole game.Are we now adding the first episode of Path of Fire to the list of instances that are "too hard"?Who is it that can't complete the first instance of PoF solo to enjoy their mounts?Should we be getting something as important and game changing as the raptor for beating Big Nose Ted?

The game has already become terribly watered down. And the most expensive to create content is the prime offender.

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Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

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I sort of wonder whether ANet has actually already changed what they do in response to this thread. This thread was started early in Season 4. I don't know about anyone else, but I thought there was a noticeable drop in difficulty for the second half of the season: episode 4 didn't have a final boss battle, and the final battles in episodes 5 and 6 felt much easier to me. They even gave you an overpowered super weapon, so your build choices didn't matter so much.

I don't really get this argument that everything in the story should be easily soloed by anyone with any build and no effort. Did any ANet Devs ever say that the story was supposed to be trivially easy? These are end-of-act boss battles in max-level content! They should at least take a little effort!

Mind you, I'm of the opinion that if I'm playing a game and I'm not dying relatively frequently, I should be playing on a higher difficulty. Not an option here, of course. Apparently this is quite an unusual point of view...

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@Kodokuna Akuma.9570 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:Some just want at least some difficulty to overcomeIf someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

And if someone is incapable of even a modicum of challenge, they can go play Hello Kitty Online.Yes, i'm sure telling the not so insignificant part of GW2 players to leave and play other games instead will do wonders for the franchise.
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@lare.5129 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:Some just want at least some difficulty to overcomeIf someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

What the fuck happened to gaming? I mean, I'm okay with someone not wanting to have any challenge and a story mode. But why are others not okay when there is also a challenge mode for the ones who like it? 20% of the gw2eff accounts have done at least one raid and should do fine with a little harder content.

I'd say a major reason why the challenge motes were not played was that you had to redo the story and could not activate them on your first play-through.If you could activate them on the first go then many would maybe try, enjoy and improve. And the ones who would not enjoy could let them be. Everyone happy, except maybe some ppl that do not want others to be happy, but I don't think you should respect that group too much. As I stated tweaking some numbers is not the hard part of the work, the assets, the main code and the story/voice should be where the most hours go down to.

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I just want to put my seven cents here without answering to anyone specific, because I thought a lot about the topic of the difficulty of boss fights recently, not only related to GW, but concerning modern video games in general.

In GW2 I usually try to play a LW episode at release day to get the pre-nerf version of boss fights, if there are any in the episode. I personally like the difficulty as it is and I don't mind trying a boss fight a few times. But that rarely happens in GW2 anyway - the only case I remember was the Eater of Souls, which I played with a friend at release and had a lot of fun figuring out how to beat him.

For me an end (or "mid end") boss has to provide at least some challenge, otherwise the story telling experience is not that satisfying for me. I don't like the dissonance that I experience when the story tells you that this was a tough and threatening opponent, but the fight itself was easy (like the end boss in Witcher 3 in normal mode, to give a none-GW example). But as it is people's experiences and skills in video games differ greatly, since not everyone plays the same amount or in the same way. A friend of mine plays every game in easy mode because they want a story, not a challenge.

I also thought numerous times in the recent years that - at least for me personally - some modern single player games are frustrating, because you cannot really die during fights, since some auto save system always revives you, even in the middle of difficult fights. I get frustrated when I kind off "died myself through" a boss fight and feel unsatisfied afterwards, because I didn't beat the boss "properly". I rather save before a boss fight the oldfashioned way and reload, if I die. This happened to me in GW too, where I found myself thinking after a boss fight, that I had rather died and had the boss reset then being revived by the NPCs in the middle of the fight a few times because I was tired and my reaction time sucked and that I will have to play the episode again to try to do it right this time. But that's just my personal preference. I am old enough after all to remember the times when you always had to save manually and there were no fancy auto save mechanisms in games. But then my friend is at my age, played the same games I did, and yet gets frustrated more easily and rather quits after trying two times, if the fight doesn't go well.

In general I think that boss fights must be really tough to balance in an MMO if there is no way for players to adjust the difficulty of the content to their liking.

With all the above said (and as it was said numerous times in the thread) it it goes without saying that simply having a kitten lot of HP doesn't equal difficult. That's only tedious.

Maybe I should add for completion's sake that I don't raid and rarely do dungeons and fractals. So I don't enter a story episode with amy mind being in "raid mode" or compare it to that. That I like challenging boss fights is just my personal preference.

(edit: grammar)

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@Astralporing.1957 said:Yes, i'm sure telling the not so insignificant part of GW2 players to leave and play other games instead will do wonders for the franchise.

The game had the same difficulty ever since Heart of Thorns was released, with certain parts of Path of Fire being even harder. If these people were to leave the game, they would have a long time ago. Asking now, 4 years later to reduce the difficulty of the story is only going to alienate those that are already playing the game, for the sake of either some new players or returning ones. Not really worth it

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I love how the 'majority' of the community blames the 'minority' when it comes to harder content instead of admitting towards the facts that they are lacking in some form or fashion. This game teaches no one. You teach yourself or other people teach you how to play. When I came here three years ago my very first RP guild taught me how to fractal, dungeon run, and eventually raid. An ex of mine taught me to PvP which extended out further to a group of PvP friends I've made.

The 'majority' of the this game scream the way they do and stick their noses up at anything difficult is because they were taught nothing. They were not taught to fight for gear, mats, they weren't taught combo fields or cooldown handling. Sheesh, even my once noob of a friend that was in the same guild as me is now doing backflips over me in PvP/WvW and more hardcore in PVE than I used to be. And he was WORSE than some of you folks that claim you are casual.

It is a want to get where you want to go that improves skills and lightens complaints about hardships, not constantly asking developers to dumb it down because people are absolutely REFUSING to want to see any it other way but their own way. In literally any other game you guys are a MINORITY, even forum people that shout are a MINORITY. So please, for the love of god, stop nerfing bosses, loot, and whatever else just because things are not 'fair' and simply go open world like you like to do. There is literally nothing wrong with that. Just stop SPEAKING for everyone else, because even though you say you are not speaking for everyone,your actions EFFECT everyone when Anet makes changes catering to YOU.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:Some just want at least some difficulty to overcomeIf someone need "difficulty to overcome" they can chose go to "kill dhum" or etc whit other 3%

And if someone is incapable of even a modicum of challenge, they can go play Hello Kitty Online.Yes, i'm sure telling the not so insignificant part of GW2 players to leave and play other games instead will do wonders for the franchise.

Just like im sure making this game an idle game will also do wonders for the franchise?

this game isnt hard, people just need to put that intelligence that they are suposed to have towards actually understanding the game and doing this wonderful thing called self improvement. People would find that self improvement is actually a wonderful feeling.

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@Kodokuna Akuma.9570 said:this game isnt hard, people just need to put that intelligence that they are suposed to have towards actually understanding the game and doing this wonderful thing called self improvement. People would find that self improvement is actually a wonderful feeling.Expecting your players to change their behaviours is an exercise in futility. I don't think it worked for any developer in history. You may make a new game, adressed at a different target group. You may change the existing game to cater at a different part of the community. What you will never be able to do is to have the same group of players change the way they're playing and the things they consider fun. You may complain about that fact, but you will not change it.

That is besides the point i made. I don't remember even a single game that succeeded by telling their players they should go and play something else instead. Because, funny thing, that makes players do go away and start playing other games. What it doesn't do is bring new players to take place of those that left.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:What you will never be able to do is to have the same group of players change the way they're playing and the things they consider fun.

But the game has been like this for at least 5 years. In a sense now a new group of players (where were they all this time?) is asking to make changes to the game to make it how -they- consider it fun. Disregarding what the actual players of this game find fun. So it's the other way around, the game has been in one way, with a certain group of players playing it, and long after the fact, there is a desire to change the game to fit some new kind of player.

I don't remember even a single game that succeeded by telling their players they should go and play something else instead.

Yes exactly, why would they tell their current players to leave this game because they are gonna turn it into an idle simulator by removing all kinds of challenge and interest from the story? To satisfy some complainers on a forum?

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I don’t get people like the OP. So you died fighting a boss. It’s happened to all of us at some point. Rather than coming to the forums to ask for tips and recommendations, though, you come on the forums to demand that the WHOLE game be altered to make up for your inability to beat a boss.

If that’s not entitlement, I don’t know what is.

Why don’t you ask, “Hey, I’m playing (x) class, can you guys help me with my rotation and build so I can beat (x) fight?”

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