bigo.9037

See when it comes to roaming you really have to be realistic about it when it comes to condi. What specs can actually pull off condi playstyle? Mesmers can.. guardian / fb can do burnspam.. necros.. revenants? condi weaver?condi warrior?condi engineer?condi thief? All of those classes were or are run as condi builds in the past and/or now. Especially condi weaver which was even played last meta. That's on top of the classes you mentioned. Have you even tried running a condi weapon as ranger? Last time I checked, shortbow does have condi on it's autos, as well as access to bleeding and poison. Burning from utility skills and Torch. I would love to see you deal 20k damage in 1.5 seconds to a target with toughness that's not afk. Stop assuming your power damage will remain the same between full glass power builds and condi builds stacked with toughness. If you can out cleanse a condi build with a 3 condi cleanse per 10 seconds, you deserve to win. I doubt a proper condi build applies that few condis, at least mine don't. EDIT:small FYI, and I know both games modes are different, take a look at the pvp boards. Then take a look what people there are talking about. Pvp comes rather close to roaming with only lacking the ability to have more player incoming (which is rather big, granted). @Cyninja.2954 said: See when it comes to roaming you really have to be realistic about it when it comes to condi. What specs can actually pull off condi playstyle? Mesmers can.. guardian / fb can do burnspam.. necros.. revenants? condi weaver?condi warrior?condi engineer?condi thief? All of those classes were or are run as condi builds in the past and/or now. Especially condi weaver which was even played last meta. That's on top of the classes you mentioned. Have you even tried running a condi weapon as ranger? Last time I checked, shortbow does have condi on it's autos, as well as access to bleeding and poison. Burning from utility skills and Torch. I would love to see you deal 20k damage in 1.5 seconds to a target with toughness that's not afk. Stop assuming your power damage will remain the same between full glass power builds and condi builds stacked with toughness. If you can out cleanse a condi build with a 3 condi cleanse per 10 seconds, you deserve to win. I doubt a proper condi build applies that few condis, at least mine don't. EDIT:small FYI, and I know both games modes are different, take a look at the pvp boards. Then take a look what people there are talking about. Pvp comes rather close to roaming with only lacking the ability to have more player incoming (which is rather big, granted). Okay don't try to educate me on my main classes weapon skills when you clearly haven't even bothered trying to play it, and then tell ME if I have even looked at shortbow. YOU try shortbow. It's the biggest joke in all of gw2 it has the lowest dmg ever and is terrible for kiting. The autos deal essentially 0 dmg because they are reduced by 50% if enemy is facing you, which is like 75% of the time you're fighting them or more. The poison? 0 dmg. Daze is nice, but useless unless you run druid so you can chain those together with ancient seeds. I've done my kitten research, so stop thinking you can school me on my own class that you have never touched except look at some skill descriptions. Condi ranger sucks. Period. It has a chance in spvp because of nodes, but in open world it is worthless. Same in 2v2. Which makes this an issue with ranger at best. I still fail to see how this applies to the entire roster of classes. Also just to correct you, your original statement was: When there is a fast firing, condi applying weapon in the ranger arsenal. Also that shortbow 2 does very nice damage at point blank range. Yes, condi ranger is not there for kiting. You have to actually change your play-style to melee, which goes in line with the utility skills for condi damage. Good luck trying to kill a player with more than half a brain with shortbow. LOL. it is terrible. 0 dmg. Yea bro swap to your bow and go shoot him in melee that will work!!" Jesus. Were you testing it on golems? Ranger has to run a 20s cooldown utility just to deal decent bleed dmg. The thing is the bleed stacks deal 0 dmg unless you run the utility, which you badly need for stunbreakers. Without the sharpening stone, your bleeds on SB hit for no dmg. Even with 2100 condi power it deals nothing. And again, why bother when you can just deal 20k rapidfire ez mode? Sicem at least also has reveal, and the dmg is so high on longbow that it works as defense because they NEED to dodge or block or they will die or lose half their health bar. Condi ranger is only deadly if you run druid for ancient seeds, but that has so many other problems that is just not worth it.Stop even trying to educate me on this class man it's embarrassing.

See when it comes to roaming you really have to be realistic about it when it comes to condi. What specs can actually pull off condi playstyle? Mesmers can.. guardian / fb can do burnspam.. necros.. revenants? condi weaver?condi warrior?condi engineer?condi thief? All of those classes were or are run as condi builds in the past and/or now. Especially condi weaver which was even played last meta. That's on top of the classes you mentioned. Have you even tried running a condi weapon as ranger? Last time I checked, shortbow does have condi on it's autos, as well as access to bleeding and poison. Burning from utility skills and Torch. I would love to see you deal 20k damage in 1.5 seconds to a target with toughness that's not afk. Stop assuming your power damage will remain the same between full glass power builds and condi builds stacked with toughness. If you can out cleanse a condi build with a 3 condi cleanse per 10 seconds, you deserve to win. I doubt a proper condi build applies that few condis, at least mine don't. EDIT:small FYI, and I know both games modes are different, take a look at the pvp boards. Then take a look what people there are talking about. Pvp comes rather close to roaming with only lacking the ability to have more player incoming (which is rather big, granted). @Cyninja.2954 said: See when it comes to roaming you really have to be realistic about it when it comes to condi. What specs can actually pull off condi playstyle? Mesmers can.. guardian / fb can do burnspam.. necros.. revenants? condi weaver?condi warrior?condi engineer?condi thief? All of those classes were or are run as condi builds in the past and/or now. Especially condi weaver which was even played last meta. That's on top of the classes you mentioned. Have you even tried running a condi weapon as ranger? Last time I checked, shortbow does have condi on it's autos, as well as access to bleeding and poison. Burning from utility skills and Torch. I would love to see you deal 20k damage in 1.5 seconds to a target with toughness that's not afk. Stop assuming your power damage will remain the same between full glass power builds and condi builds stacked with toughness. If you can out cleanse a condi build with a 3 condi cleanse per 10 seconds, you deserve to win. I doubt a proper condi build applies that few condis, at least mine don't. EDIT:small FYI, and I know both games modes are different, take a look at the pvp boards. Then take a look what people there are talking about. Pvp comes rather close to roaming with only lacking the ability to have more player incoming (which is rather big, granted).Okay don't try to educate me on my main classes weapon skills when you clearly haven't even bothered trying to play it, and then tell ME if I have even looked at shortbow. YOU try shortbow. It's the biggest joke in all of gw2 it has the lowest dmg ever and is terrible for kiting. The autos deal essentially 0 dmg because they are reduced by 50% if enemy is facing you, which is like 75% of the time you're fighting them or more. The poison? 0 dmg. Daze is nice, but useless unless you run druid so you can chain those together with ancient seeds. I've done my kitten research, so stop thinking you can school me on my own class that you have never touched except look at some skill descriptions. Condi ranger sucks. Period. It has a chance in spvp because of nodes, but in open world it is worthless. Same in 2v2.

See when it comes to roaming you really have to be realistic about it when it comes to condi. What specs can actually pull off condi playstyle? Mesmers can.. guardian / fb can do burnspam.. necros.. revenants? That's all I can think of. Everything else doesn't really have a proper condi setup. I tried ranger. I've probably spent about 20 hours before patch, and 5 after patch trying to think of ways to get it to work. It doesn't. Risk is high, reward is low. Why should I bother trying to land 5 abilities because my AA chain applies 0 condi, half of the skills in 900 range, other half in melee just to get a 2k condi tick that gets cleansed away with a single weapon swap, when I can just press 3 buttons on power build and deal 20k dmg in 1.5 seconds from 1200 range? That's the problem with condi. Sigil of cleansing makes it impossible to deal dmg ESPECIALLY when certain classes' condi traits and skills have been neglected since 2012.

I suppose that's true. I've been on NA for 6 months now since I moved irl. EU definitely a lot better in terms of players in wvw. But yea, on NA that's what I've been seeing. How is it on EU? obviously thieves but what are they playing?

60k longbow burst ? U are the biggest monkey on this forum for real, eat some bananas instead of posting nonsense hahaha learn to playI bet you can't even pull half thatYea it's not uncommon for me to pull 20-25k rapidfires on necros. Other targets don't have enough HP for me to see the whole number tick lmao. I mean, even most players running away on warclaw can get 1shot even with the extra 9k hp. And that's without ANY might stacks, no bloodlust, no ferocity signet. Just pew pew with fury and PBS :)

Ehm as much as I am also not a fan of how downstate works in its current state (tldr I think it needs nerfs at least because its too tanky) you also kind of just got a bit "outplayed" after the first down, or they were just straight lucky that they happened to interrupt your Lich 3 cast which you could have opted to wait for them to start ressing to use. They also got pretty lucky on the second interrupt of your Staff 5 yet again because you were rather hasty. I can imagine the frustration was mounting at that point because you practically healed the Herald back to full health. Downstate isn't within itself necessarily a bad mechanic...just in its current form it is just not great with how it interacts in PvP. Even if it had less health and res speed was slower you still wouldn't have won that. If downstate was gone, sure, you would have, but that would be like making the argument in Apex of "Well if they didn't have that whole downstate mechanic and revived their buddy I would have killed them all". Like yeah, sure, thats a thing but the mechanic itself isn't really the problem there. Downstate has a place, I think in PvP/WvW at least it needs to get a reduction in health and res speed should be slower (stomping should be faster too), but none of those changes would have really changed the outcome of that fight for you, despite unfortunately, for you, how lucky they were on their interrupts. I've seen this argument before and granted I haven't played apex for more than like 4 hours total, BUT...in Apex, actually reviving an ally is a very difficult feat. You need to somehow make it to one of those revival thingies without dying by yourself cus you might be alone, and then you can revive.In GW2, all you have to do is watch your ally get low, run towards him, and press F as soon as he gets down and you have a good chance of getting the res. 1 button. Unless enemy has stab, but in that case enemy outplayed you all so hard he managed to win an outnumbered fight while keeping stab ready to stomp, so that would be a bad argument. Again, gw2 ressing is just too darn easy for the reward.

So before patch hit everyone was saying condi was gonna be meta. Funny. I don't see any condi players. Mirage / necro was primary condi specs, and mirage got big nerf so I don't see much of those at all. Yea there are condi revs, but for blobs it's mostly the same, it seems. Fbs and necros with revenants. And roaming? Dominated by rangers, thieves and guardians/ DH all playing power.1shot rangers and vault spamming thieves with an occasional condi dodger thief. Holos I don't see much of. Maybe warriors here and there but not really.

You guys. You can't just say "ranger hit me for 17k and heals 400 hp/s." No, those things all happen in separate traitlines and builds. No single build can do one thing on ranger anymore. That was before the patch when nature magic combined with moastance could get you perma 25 might and perma stab + prot. Now, you either choose full zerk and 100% aggressive traitlines or you pick WS for sustain and condi cleanse but less dmg.

Soulbeast deals HELLA dmg. I've 1shot people POST patch in wvw AND spvp. Bam, 1 WI and someone dies. But seeing how anet decides to give soulbeast , mirage and friggin druid, berserker tradeoff before FB, I'm no longer saying anything bad about soulbeast ever.

There's no way that can be tr-- -- holy fudge monkeys! Yeah, I already reported this bug, hopefully they'll fix it. I've already come across Soulbeasts with my Sic' Em variant that I couldn't kill and they couldn't kill me too, but they were more likely to kill me because they could out-sustain me.It's pretty nuts right now. S++ tier dueler because of this and everything doing less damage. Is wvw a duel zone? Should we change everything for duels? Just wondering @Swagger.1459 said: There's no way that can be tr-- -- holy fudge monkeys! Yeah, I already reported this bug, hopefully they'll fix it. I've already come across Soulbeasts with my Sic' Em variant that I couldn't kill and they couldn't kill me too, but they were more likely to kill me because they could out-sustain me.It's pretty nuts right now. S++ tier dueler because of this and everything doing less damage. Is wvw a duel zone? Should we change everything for duels? Just wonderingNo, we shouldn't :)

Other classes like Elementalist and Engineer had to pay their "additional skill mechanics" (attunements and kits) by being unable to weapon swap in combat. Honestly, I think the most logical nerf for Firebrand would be to remove their weapon swap in combat as well. I can see that happening as well. Fairly strong justification as well.Except they would still have 20 weapon skills. Remove 1 tome and make them unable to swap weapons, OR make them choose only 1 tome but they keep the weapon swap.

I play core, DPS staff elementalist. Ah yes I see. Basically the same problem but just from the other extreme. 2v2s is definitely gonna favor bruisers. Ele probably has better access to this than some others but their need to specialize presents the same problems. And that sort of response again sort of just reinforces my main point in the same way that: By instantly defaulting to "it's a build problem" response ("bruiser" being a term for "generic DPS lad who self-heals and mitigates damage while doing damage rotations"), you're mostly just reconfirming how GW2's 2v2 PvP is so build-centric that it drowns out player expression and creativity (even moreso than 5v5 already does). You're basically reinforcing my point by condensing the mode's issues down to "delete build X and Y." It's not a matter of which builds are dominant in GW2 2v2 PvP; it's the fact that BUILDS RULE EVERYTHING. There is no room for player creativity, expression or initiative in that mode. It's just a drunken slap-fight with pre-fight build set-ups determining advantage and victors. Delete necro and fb from 2v2, and you'll just have two other builds rule it instead. From my experience so far? There is a variety of builds that can work as long as you don't have to think about "can it win vs fb and necro". Every time I did a 2v2 post patch and it wasn't either of those it was 1, a lot more fun and 2 way more balanced and you really felt like it could go either way at least if both teams were equally skilled.So yea while it might be a bad way to go about it, fb and necro are what is limiting creativity because they are so oppressive. GW2 is not a game of deep mechanics and player creativity. Being so soon after the patch drop, things are still in flux, but the nature of this game has always been to settle with a very narrow meta of optimal builds which mostly just do the same thing. This patch didn't really change anything aside from the cadence of GW2 PvP combat. This game has no more roles or unique mechanics than it did pre-patch, and that's ultimately going to be the determining factor for what the meta line-ups become in the weeks going forward. Things might look different, but they are quite effectively still the same. Kill fb and necro, and something else is waiting in line right behind it. Kill those, and you'll get something else. If you want to avoid this carousel, you need actual roles in your role-playing video game.Yea but if you look at it in terms of power levels ( how strong a class or comp is ) then it's a little bit different. If we say fb + necro has power level of 100, necro + ele has maybe 90, and then a bunch of builds that include neither necro or fb are around the same level. Say, maybe 80 or so. You might very well have a new comp wait to be the best if you did remove fb + nec, but that comp most certainly would not be as oppressive as fb + nec currently is, leaving more room for counterplay options and actually being able to play something that isn't the best but still have a better chance of winning than you would if you tried something non fb + nec right now.

You're basically reinforcing my point by condensing the mode's issues down to "delete build X and Y." It's not a matter of which builds are dominant in GW2 2v2 PvP; it's the fact that BUILDS RULE EVERYTHING. There is no room for player creativity, expression or initiative in that mode. It's just a drunken slap-fight with pre-fight build set-ups determining advantage and victors. Delete necro and fb from 2v2, and you'll just have two other builds rule it instead. From my experience so far? There is a variety of builds that can work as long as you don't have to think about "can it win vs fb and necro". Every time I did a 2v2 post patch and it wasn't either of those it was 1, a lot more fun and 2 way more balanced and you really felt like it could go either way at least if both teams were equally skilled.So yea while it might be a bad way to go about it, fb and necro are what is limiting creativity because they are so oppressive.

Just delete necro and fb from 2v2 then it works fine and is fun to play

ALL passives needed to be gone from the game. Oddly enough, after the patch when I encounter someone actually still using the passives I get triggered even more than before, cus before it was just expected. For far too long players have been getting carried hard by builds (and still are, looking at you fb). Maybe the player skill gap will finally not be so big because players will actually have to learn to fight instead of getting carried by passives on top of downedstate.

What? 10 unblock able attacks is one rapid fire. How is that not giving it a use? And if you also use one wolf pack, it's half a rapid fire.I don't need 10 unblockables to land a full rapidfire, most of the times I just need the interrupt. OWP is unblockable by itself so it should not count for unblockables. If it does we should open a bug report. Worst case scenario being able to land a full rapid fire with no counter is still the reason why Soulbeast got nerfed to the oblivion. So IMO going back there is not a solution. Can we also just talk about how utterly terrible many ranger utilities are. Spirits are useless. Signet except soh are useless. Protect me is the only good shout utility except heal and elite. Dolyak stance now useless so all pof skills are COMPLETELY useless. Traps? Useless. We are forced to run the only decent utilities we have cus anet both hates and ignores ranger since forever. Was already non meta build before patch but apparently it needed a nerf soo badly that you remove the petswap on soulbeast and increase cooldown of the only good weapon ranger has.Also, entangle is a terrible elite skill compared to basically every other class. Then there's sotp which is decent but we're literally limited to only that skill. Condi builds are terrible on ranger cus they ALL RELY on projectiles, shortbow deals ABYSMAL dmg. Absolutely NO dmg at all. Axe torch is OK but torch deals 0 dmg honestly unless enemy wants to stand on your aoe. And axe still has 0 condi application on auto attack. All anet had to do to fix soulbeast is nerf moa stance, increase merge cooldown to 15 or 20 sec and leave dolyak stance at 40s. But no. Already weak spec gets hit hardest with the nerf hammer meanwhile FB and necro, the meta of both pvp AND wvw.. go by untouched. Yea that's fair.

Wvw soulbeast still king. I tried core in spvp 2v2's, but I'm gonna try soulbeast in spvp later.

Balance is separate issue, but just get a friend to play with. Everyone else does it

I agree. It's incredibly braindead. Fb has perma boons.. ton of AOE DAZE... aegis spam.. condi cleanse.. cc.. deals insane burn dmg with even running condi dmg amulet. I mean cmooooon.

Berserker got a "tradeoff" nerf. A spec barely used. Soulbeast just got a tradeoff. Mirage has tradeoff. Why the fuck does FB have 0 tradeoffs? It's just an upgrade that is undeniably stronger than any core spec. It's not even about "l2p", it's about getting the same treatment as other classes. Ofc the moment fb gets nerfed, all the newbies getting hard carried by cheese will start losing and what will they do? QQ on forums that they nerfed fb too much when in reality they just got toned down to be on par with every other spec.

Remove duo queue so you have to play alone? Yea no ty. May as well turn it into a 1v1 match instead. Which would be worse. 2v2 is pure action, no running around to cap nodes.

Like I've commented earlier, 2v2 is the perfect opportunity to play with a friend.It gives much bigger benefit than duo queue in conquest. Get your rank, team up with someone on your level in your guild or make new friends etc.

Yes but you only need 1 friend to play with and you'll be good. Id rather have 1 friend /guildmate with me in 2v2 than 1 guildmate with me 2/5. Feels way less random in matches and much more about skill (not considering balance that's a separate issue ofc)

I have not been this excited to play guild wars 2 in a long time. 2v2 is amazing. Just like all the tournies. Now with less passives!! Good stuff. Yea balance might not be perfect but at least there's more punishment for bad play now. The fact that we actually have a 2v2 RANKED queue is a big step in the right direction. I'm thrilled.

It's only CC skills like dazes and stuns that get a .01 coefficient.