MysteryMen.3791

Thank god they haven’t fixed the greatsword 3 damage coefficient bug in pvp yet. My lifeline on guard.

Aaand thats not quite truth. Except for balance and lack of...interest from ANet side in PvP scene, downed state was one of the reasons why MMO PvP pros/players/etc didnt like GW2 PvP. Myself included, as a guy that came to GW2 from WoW and GW1 and played both of them on high PvP level. Over the years, many streamers that have multiple thousands of viewers in WoW (either playing pve, arenas or other things) or other MMOs wanted to try gw2 and in PvP almost all of them said that downed state is just...weird and not needed. Now hear me out, I dont say that downed state is pure evil. It makes game flow much slower, but you can get used to it and take advantage in conquest mode making other players useless for longer amount of time. Problem starts when we come across few things, such as ressbots. There shouldnt exist any, again, ANY skills, traits, whatsoever that makes ressing players faster than it is implemented by default. You use multiple CDs to burst some1 down, then comes 1 guy with one CD and just picks him up. No, if you wanna pick some1 up, you gotta go to that body, spend few seconds ressing him, popping your defensive CDs so you wont die either. Let me compare it to WoW where ress skill is 10 (!) second cast. Also there are hillarious downed state skills, such as rev slow, condi teef spamming 1 etc. Tbh I have no idea who designed them, but since the very beginning those are a joke (back in the vanilla days there were necro builds with downed +damage trait that allowed to deal same damage as if you were up, hillarious Karthus gameplay). The other thing is kinda more complicated, and its conquest mode as a whole. GW2 wanted to be a special kiddo where in most MMOs in ranked games you just have arenas or sth like that, 2v2, 3v3 etc. Its good, it works. But ANet made sth called 'cap and hold 3 circles for X minutes, have fun'. Over the years more and more ppl started leaving this mode because they just want to fight, they dont care about circles. They moved to other games, or to dueling zones, or WvW. Existing bunker and healbots aint helping either. So what ANet made? Hmmm, how about we admit our mistakes and make 2v2, 3v3 off-meta arenas? Yeah, right in time. But oh boi, what a clownfiesta those modes became. And again, while in conquest mode downed state can be either your advantage and disadvantage, in 2s and 3s there should be no such thing. If you die, you die, period. But thats just some offmeta gamemode that no1 cares about because there are no PvP devs in this company that can properly balance it and make arenas viable in gw2. tl;drYou see, GW2 was this one special kid in class that wanted to make things on its own. No arenas, conquest mode (arenas added later on), no raids, fractals and dungeons (raids added later on), no instant death mode in pvp modes, downed state (wvw 'no downed state' week events later on) and so on and so on. Ofc you can be succesful as special kid, bah, gw2 started as really succesful one! But lack of any interest from the company made this game what we have now, kinda dead, more and more with each day. Copy-pasting is easy way to make money, starting new meta is hard and lack of any commitment from devs side is just a proof that they shouldnt start anything new and just copy-paste and learn from big brothers because they have no idea what to do with their cake. name a single top level gw2 player or pro that doesn't like downstate. Only people that get annoyed by it are people unable to deal with their own lack of skill when a target gets revived. It also adds a lot of depth to the game and decision making.

You give zero reasons as to why downstate in PvP is bad, just that it magically is. Also no one above gold 3 has ever wanted downstate removed, definitely not the old gw2 pros and the current top tier players. I have never once tilted because downstate existed but clearly you do a lot.

The forum is so amusingly contradictory at times. Yes, an instant stomp using a 8k health CC immune mount moving at the speed of swiftness is totally the same thing, and requires exactly the same amount of coordination and skill as converting downed players with cleave or regular stomps. For too long gankers have used "skill" as justification for changes in this game. NORMAL unskilled players should be able to play too! Using "skill" as a crutch, a fallback for every argument just doesn't do the game any favours. Who wants to play a game where only the most skilled people can have fun playing it? That's silly, it's elitist and it makes the game unappealing. No wonder WvW isn't as popular as it could be, when the developers constantly bend to the whims of elitist gankers.late to the party but holy moly mate you're so very fundamentally wrong, any game with PvP is about skill. If you aren't using skill as the determining factor for a fight its going to be either luck, gear or build (theorycrafting) which is really trashy and unfun. Also just fyi you can play as a lower skill individual, your goal is to kill people about the same skill as you or lower or to just improve, play with a group whatever floats ur boat. Your absolute inability to accept skill is not a good mindset for a mode against other players, maybe try in PvE.

in terms of the custom arena you joined there are some that will not start an actual match and you just fight in the 'waiting for players' stage. Others will start when you join like a normal PvP match. This is normally indicated by a little while arrow with a red circle crossout thing on it.

Shiyo stop making such baseless suggestions. You completely delete every facet of thief making it a completely unplayable class. Did a thief farm you in ranked or something? This is a really REALLY bad suggestion in every way.

Thats a quality troll right there, almost had me believing you but of course no one is dumb enough to complain about any part of warrior atm.

Where do you see the PvP top 50 ? On the official website I can only see a top for achievements and WvW. There was a slightly unofficial but accurate list made by Falan for EU top 50 last season and the end results are as follows:13 multiclass 3 warr5 guard14 rev 7 ranger12 thief7 engi 4 nec1 ele1 mes and unsurprisingly its mostly thieves and revs closely followed by multiclassers who can swap reactively in a game making it very strong. Too bad ! I would prefer an official PvP ladder from ANet with account names and most played class (with a %).Yea I would as well, some other games with PvP ranked systems allow you to view the profiles of top 250 players so you can look at their most played classes, choices, winrate and more which is quite handy for analysis.

yes you are biased, thats easy to see even if you didn't mention that and your arguments don't make any sense. For example, if dodges need to be visibly shown so you know which players have them and which players don't why don't we also show heal skills, blocks, invulns and maybe we'll also add in stealth and teleport skills because they are all also skills that should be 'counted' or at least payed attention to so you know if someone has them available. Also, PvP is a dying game mode but for none of the reasons you mentioned. The skill ceiling in GW2 is high yes but the skill floor is also pretty high and with the right mindset and practice you can get quite good at the game extremely quickly. I have seen people get to plat level in just a month after playing so I wouldn't call that 'difficult'. Everyone else in this game manages to just take note of how many times someone has dodged so surely you can do it too.

in what universe could you say that condi rev isn't overperforming? It has so much resistance to condis that a regular condi build can't do any damage to it and it has great cleave as well. Not to mention rev as a whole dominates top tier ranked and the mAT at the moment so I ask again, how is that considered standard performance?

there will be a lot of meme comps coming out of nowhere but since its 3v3 which is about the size of a normal teamfight it will probably just be part of the current 5v5 comps. Condi rev/firebrand/necro, power rev/tempest/condi rev or something similar, maybe with a renegod in there.

there isn't a single time in this game where if you have played properly you are CCd for 10 seconds. It can be annoying sometimes and I also get pissed in the moment but I can always look back and realise that there was a misplay leading into me getting stunlocked.

Where do you see the PvP top 50 ? On the official website I can only see a top for achievements and WvW. There was a slightly unofficial but accurate list made by Falan for EU top 50 last season and the end results are as follows:13 multiclass 3 warr5 guard14 rev 7 ranger12 thief7 engi 4 nec1 ele1 mes and unsurprisingly its mostly thieves and revs closely followed by multiclassers who can swap reactively in a game making it very strong.

I don't believe you. So we'll leave it at that. You're talking complete nonsense. In SPvP mesmer has completely dropped off the map. It sees very little play in ranked. And in the MATs it wasn't taking into either the Semi-Finals or Finals at all. If Condi Mirage was a god tier 1v1 spec we'd see mesmer mains playing it on the side nodes in MATs. We don't. Condi mirage has among the lowest damage of anything in the game, even compared to other condition builds. That's a mathematical fact. I've tested it. It just doesn't have the damage numbers to compete with other classes sustain and put them down. cmirage has actually one of the highest condi bursts in the game, but it's quite squishy and can't sidenode Again, math and testing shows that this is 100% not true. you can't rly use math in a game like gw2 and maybe you're just a bad mirage :) You actually can, because GW2's combat system involves math. For starters condition mesmer can't come anywhere near to level of condition burst and damage as anything that can stack a lot of burning specifically like Guardian, Elementalist, and Engineer. Thief and rev are also significantly burstier in terms of condition damage. Mesmer is mathmatically across the board the lowest damage class in the game. That's just a fact. thats just factually incorrect, mesmer has problems and none of them are damage. mesmer damage combo assuming you do torch 4/5 as opening and then combo into either axe or sword burst you'll get a potential oneshot. Maybe try improving or fixing your build :)

I don't believe you. So we'll leave it at that. You're talking complete nonsense. In SPvP mesmer has completely dropped off the map. It sees very little play in ranked. And in the MATs it wasn't taking into either the Semi-Finals or Finals at all. If Condi Mirage was a god tier 1v1 spec we'd see mesmer mains playing it on the side nodes in MATs. We don't. Condi mirage has among the lowest damage of anything in the game, even compared to other condition builds. That's a mathematical fact. I've tested it. It just doesn't have the damage numbers to compete with other classes sustain and put them down. cmirage has actually one of the highest condi bursts in the game, but it's quite squishy and can't sidenode Again, math and testing shows that this is 100% not true. you can't rly use math in a game like gw2 and maybe you're just a bad mirage :) Of course you can use maths in a video game. Make your point more clear please.no you can't use maths in a game like GW2. When you do that you are just looking at 2 players running full skill rotations with no evades/blocks/ccs. GW2 combat you can apply maths but its not always true to the reality of how it would play out in a fight.

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation. Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills. Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day. Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks. Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :) didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips.... actually, did you even make a point? Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true. It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable. It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob. Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors. You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite... I mean, check the build at least before you post about it. Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can sidestep it. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal. @fumcheg.1936 said: I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation. Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills. Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day. Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks. Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :) didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips.... actually, did you even make a point? Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true. It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable. It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob. Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors. You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite... I mean, check the build at least before you post about it. Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it. Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage. I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge. "Literally any other melee ability" either has longer range, an associated dash, or is on a class that that has other easily accessible fast dashes, or stuns. The thieves that would want to use CnD dont really have any of those. Youre arguing what-ifs. Did you never wonder why D/D thief is unplayable and why the others generally dont use CnD?thief also has an immob on pistol 2 you can use to combo into it with, or just let people come to you first then use it idk, I don't have problems with it. and no I don't wonder why D/D is unplayable, spoiler alert it isn't because CnD is weak. Also condi thieves do use CnD as part of their kit because its genuinely useful and handy to have instant melee stealth.

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation. Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills. Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day. Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks. Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :) didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips.... actually, did you even make a point? Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true. It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable. It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob. Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors. You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite... I mean, check the build at least before you post about it. Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can sidestep it. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal. @fumcheg.1936 said: I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation. Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills. Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day. Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks. Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :) didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips.... actually, did you even make a point? Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true. It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable. It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob. Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors. You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite... I mean, check the build at least before you post about it. Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it. Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage. I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge. You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous. If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is. CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build. You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s Git gud Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps. @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation. Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills. Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day. Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks. Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :) didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips.... actually, did you even make a point? Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true. It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable. It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob. Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors. You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite... I mean, check the build at least before you post about it. Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can sidestep it. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal. @fumcheg.1936 said: I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation. Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills. Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day. Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks. Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :) didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips.... actually, did you even make a point? Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true. It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable. It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob. Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors. You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite... I mean, check the build at least before you post about it. Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it. Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage. I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge. You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous. If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is. CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build. You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s Git gud Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps. Step into trap. By thief. Is the solution. Ok, now I see why you don't play thief and only do theorycrafting.so you are giving a situation where a thief is 1v1ing a DH... You know that should never happen right? When looking at overall meta and actual situations DH will be against an engi or a ranger or some other sidenode spec which can indeed just tank a small hit from traps. As a thief +1ing that you could also step in the trap to reveal them because amazingly condi thief is kinda tanky running carrion amulet and doesn't insta die. Thief has a lot of access to stealth that is both instant and low cooldown so you can enter stealth a lot. The access to it via traps is irrelevant because traps are fairly garbage anyway and you can just reveal them with the exact same trap.

Why would you dumb down the game? The exploits are exploits like the obsidian flesh bug but they get fixed and really aren't that problematic to begin with so just focus on them instead of weapon stowing. Stowing animations on the other hand such as arcing slice on warrior, trueshot on dragonhunter, maul on ranger and many many more are extremely tactical and important to high level play. The fact that there are people here saying "oh it can give 2k extra DPS in raids" and "oh I wasted a dodge because someone stowed" thats your own fault, you are openly admitting someone better than you used their skill to outplay you, thats it. Stows are part of this game and its mechanics, it would be stupid to remove them now. and for the one dude trying to compare this to actual 'combat', just want to point out the concept of a feint.

No mounts would be super fun. Finally a week where I can play the game and not deal with every bad player just getting free passes to a zerg or keep.

The list above is clearly the best and most accurate list on this thread, it has been peer reviewed by helseth and falues and if you think its bad you'll be stuck in bronze forever. Facts.